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In Progress X-Piratez! Ironman! No spoilers! Oldschool X-COM Total Conversion with mutant amazon pirates. Death to the star gods!

Jaedar

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
10,142
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
works underwater
Zl01VBY.png
My favourite mid-game weapon by a mile.
:love:
It's pretty much a 40K Bolter with less ammo capacity
The tech tree for this game is wild. I've got library up, which seems to be the next tier of research after personal labs, and I don't even seem to have the prerequisites for the prerequisites for this gun, even though it seems like you can get it before library.

I'm fairly happy about my tech path though, because I am pretty close to getting the upgrade to chainmail, which should be really nice.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,254
The main thing that surprised me is that Sectoweed was actually a net negative investment if you don't end your month on the regular plantation. That... seems wrongly designed.

Are you including the cost of the runts here? Kinda looks like you are but it says Hands, and it doesn't seem to be included in the total. The analysis of 220k profit minus 74k opportunity cost, - 85k plant actions for a mere 71k profit seems legit. And 71k is not a lot of money for 4 tiles. It does enable bees, which is 300k per month, and weed plantations are still strictly better than normal ones, even if it's only by 71k.
Runts not included. Hard to measure because their initial cost and upkeep depends on how you get them. I'm just looking at how much extra cash the farms give you, which is 61k not 71k.

I do agree Bees seem great, Keeping one plantation per base outside the main for Bees is what I think I'll do from now on.

I am wondering if you need to consider multiple farms, as a single farm is not enough sectoweed to keep 50 runts occupied.
Runts are occupied 100% of the tiime on both of the values to the right. 4 sectoweed farms would make about 244k a month above 4 regular farms.

There's also strategies where you run the sectoweed farms for months without paying runt upkeep, bring in the runts and then cigar everything. That's slow to pay off but you'd make a buttload when you cash in.
You could always just ship it over to another base. Getting money later is almost always gonna be worse than getting it soon.

While a civilian shootdown is indeed valuable (I don't know if there's an infamy penalty for shooting down the ship, but you'll easily pull like 200k from ransoms+engine), craft weapons, ammo (ammo feels like the big one to me, especially since you'll either waste a lot when reloading, or will have to micro reloads) and upkeep are not free either. Might have to include cost of an uber or two as well. They're complete milk runs though unless one of the civilians is a terminator in disguise. I've lost an experienced melee gal to that.

The true cost of civilian shootdowns is in real life time to do it.

You gain infamy for all shootdowns aside from Govt craft AFAIK (and when you assault the ship you'll see if its Govt, and lose infamy in the mission). All I know is that since I achieved complete global radar networks and civilian shootdown I've had scores in the 5 digits.

Craft ammo isn't a problem

- Statistical bullet saving added to most of the light craft cannons
Last update. And your shootdowns very often include ammo in the loot.

RL time isn't really that huge at all, most missions take ~30s unless you are farming experience in which case it takes about a minute.

I do my missions with my main base team (which atm is either the A-team on the Airtruck or the B-team on the Skyranger). So I'm not really employing more hands than I would normally.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,254
Anyone know what % cold resistance you need to avoid damage per turn?
i believe there are different levels of freezing cold environment but i'm not sure how to tell
There seems to be 4 different tiers from looking at the tech browser thing. So some spoilery/haxxory speculation

Seem cold does 7, 8, 20 or 20 damage with extra stun. They are all of flat damage type. So I guess you take damage = x*resist-armor ? This doesn't really match up with my experience however, as a gal in chainmail has 40 armor, and 200% cold, so should at most take 20*2-40 = 0 damage but every time I use chainmail in cold I end up with everyone in the hospital for a week from frostbite. Unless it goes at under armor? in which case it should occasionally go through since 20*2-30 = 10. Ubers with furs should always be immune since it's 20 armor and 50% cold, whereas peasants have 30% resist but only 6 armor they should occasionally take damage but I never use peasants so I can't verify.

I would also guess that the game picks randomly, so some turns you take 7 sometimes you take 20?

According to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=cWN6kLEA_1c the way to calculate resist with items is a bit complicated so I don't feel like doing it when I'm just speculating how it works anyway.
So I guess the answer is: it depends.

I don't think it cares about the armor values of the armor. Otherwise Catgirls in fur with 6 armor would still take damage and that doesn't seem to be the case.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,851
Decided to research these in anticipation of some heist missions we might do in the future. Apparently these actually have great burn resist too. Maybe a viable option for the burning city missions? We'll have to see.
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These are both exciting and underwhelming. Basically, this is our new underwater gear for gals for the foreseeable future. The sea version has slightly different stats, but is essentially the same. Nomad crossbows do stabbing, rather than piercing damage, so the shields fully apply there. There are other decent underwater options like the brainer and sea chiller outfits, but I like these the most for now. On the surface, these are basically useless, as almost all missions will involve piercing or concussion damage. They might be decent vs zombies too? I'm not sure what the damage numbers on zombie bites actually are or how they interact with armour. I just know they've killed a lot of people I thought could survive in the past.
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And probably the biggest bombshell tech we've gotten since chainmail. These guys are, frankly, completely busted for this stage of the game. 144 health is almost impossible to deplete without causing a decent chunk of stun, so they pretty much always fall asleep before dying. And while for most units, like the hyena riders, that'd be near a death sentence anyways from multiple wounds, these bastards recover 8 hp per turn! 15 armour isn't a ton but it's plenty for shrugging off shotguns and small arms fire when you can just sprint away with 110 TUs and heal back to full. On top of that, these don't count as actual soldiers. Meaning, while their stats can't be improved, they also instantly recover after each battle.
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They are a tad expensive to recruit, but we've got plenty of sectoweed being produced at our secondary base. Mutant meat is actually our bottleneck, and it's easy to get mountains of that from a monster hunt. And obviously, the biggest problem is capturing the rare bastards to begin with. But after that catgirl mission where we raked in a ton of them, we're set for life on that front.
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Depicted here is the natural enemy of the ogre: Literally any enemy with LoS on them and a full TU bar. Also commanders who tell them to exit on the first turn when they have no armour.
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Fortunately, even though Gumsmith got chewed up pretty bad, his massive hp pool is more than enough to stay on his feet, and Echidna makes an excellent nurse. Honestly, I should prep the ship with her holding the surgery kit for exactly these circumstances.
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I don't think I've mentioned it before, but you can actually walk machinegun fire between multiple targets. It didn't work out here due to a lack of bullet spray I think, but I do like the concept. Also, Slut has steadily been building up strength through heavy weapon titles. If I can get some more I can probably try move her back to melee. Though that seems suboptimal with her freak gal stat spread.
efNbVZi.png

Also, all our fully trained gals are actually so good at melee now that shield bashes are pretty much guaranteed deathblows to normal humans. If we want to capture researchers and the like, we need to punch them. Which is fun in it's own right.
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Echidna displaying wihy catgirls are fucking bananas, moving from our ship into the third floor of theirs to stun a drone for capture with over 50% TUs to spare. Crazy. She doesn't even have many titles yet!
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My clearly flawless business acumen has been called into question, so I'm going to walk through my thought process here in some detail. First up, Canteen production. When taking the runt upkeep into account, you're getting 19,820 profit per month here. Well, minus a bit more for item creation costs but those are fairly low.
EgP0Uv8.png

Producing X-Grog nets use 9264$ a month per runt. Both require a still, but you want a still and three extractors anyways for the workshop space.
4aO822J.png

Weed Plantation is fairly complex, but it boils down to this: Done properly, you get one cycle each month. That cycle additionally makes you 15k by ending the month as a normal plantation with negative 100k maintenance, more than offsetting the weed production cycle. Out of this we get 240 sectoweed, which is enough for 50 runts to spend 10 days making canteens instead of grog. Minus like, half a day for the weed used to reset the cycle. So call it 48 runts, and cut that to a third so they can work the whole month for easy numbers. 1 farm = 16 runts making canteens and not grog. That works out to ~175k extra income. It's pretty fiddly and if you fuck up the cycle you lose 110k so it's only 65k extra income; worse than a normal farm. So why not just makie more workshop space? Well, because those buildings are limited. The ones that aren't tend to be low efficiency. Large vaults are best, giving 25 space for 10k maintenance. That works out to ~215k income instead. That is slightly better, but now you also need a bit more crew space to house the runts. If we're putting a value of ~50k income per tile, the crew space needed is about 2/3rds of that, putting the cost at ~30k. It's practically a wash, and the weed itself has a lot of important applications. Additionally, large vaults have a massive startups cost of a million dollaros. That's a huge upfront investment for such marginal gains. So for money making, I'd say prioritize setting up extractors and a still, then farms. The exact optimal setup will depend on how much leftover crew space and layout space you'll have. Large quarters are a bit more efficient than small, after all, but hangars are useful, you might want gaps for base defense, training facilities or prisons or other workshop stuff to allow for making equipment. Cigars are an option too, and I haven't done the math there but I suspect it's not as good. You can make them if you have an onsen, but the weed to income ratio is worse iirc. My ballpark estimate is instead of 160k extra from the runts, you get ~130k. It's a decent option if you just want to rapidly convert weed to cash to get rid of a stockpile.
U3CLpLM.png


Anyways, when we're not busying running an edibles empire, we had some time to research these giant blue lobster people. I think this is where I got the mistaken idea that swords are good for killing tanks- it's lobstermen where they have an advantage, doing full damage vs a bullet's 40%. Stabbing can be decent too, at 70%. And I think these numbers change a bit underwater, favouring concussive instead. Anyways, it's kind of moot here because what you really want are poison gas attacks, which these guys are very weak to, and bypass their armour entirely.
gad9JSw.png


We spot a landed ship nearby and are met with some more raiders. Could have been better, but I'm not gonna complain.
QmzF3zc.png

Hey, how good are thrown weapons at this point in the game? Well, that's a raider boss we're targetting with pinpoint accuracy.
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...and he's dead in one shot. Not bad for 30 TUs on a one handed weapon. Slug thrower, eat your heart out.
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Echidna pulls some weight here capturing a couple extra raider girls. Not here though.
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I opted to wait a turn until they got closer. The buzzards are a menance, having excellent vision, reactions, and long range snapshots with their scoped pistols. We actually drew a shot trying to make it back to the ship before making the better choice to hide behind these rocks. It's easy to forget in the moment that while ~10% of your TUs won't move you that far, going from 20% to 10% remaining makes a huge difference in how much reaction fire you're going to draw.
W2yCq0r.png

All said and done, we got 5 more recruitable uber gals. And these don't need any fancy materials to bring aboard.
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Another bit of lore. I've seen this page before, but never met any of the other 3 clans. Speaks to how large the game is that even after meeting all these enemies and factions, we've barely scratched the surface.
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I decided to research this after all, both because of begging in the comments (stop spoiling shit STD!) and because it sounds vaguely related to the concept of other large cannons and such. Turns out it's a giant version of the air musket. It's pretty much what I expected; it's got a snapshot range of only 5, ammo capacity of 4, and while it does have some decent accuracy, it doesn't fill much of a role in my books. Also, 40 weight. Oof. Maybe I'll make one for an ogre to use underwater. It would be nice to have if like, a lobster shows up underwater or something. Well, actually it's piercing so it'd suck there. But it'll be great if an armored car shows up underwater or something! Probably punches holes in buildings real nicely too.
vfV26EX.png

At last, we've got a werewolf on the field. These guys make for the perfect shocktroops to run outside and check for nearby hostiles. They're tanky as fuck, have reasonably good reactions, good nightvision, and plenty of TUs. And they're more expendable than actual elite crewmembers that could boast similar properties.
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One more thing not mentioned thus far, and thankfully not used by enemy werewolves: These fuckers have the berserker howl the barbarian savage outfit grants! Oh, and the sniff abilities of dogs. The sniff burns up some morale, while the howl builds it back up, not to mention knocking out capture targets from a healthy distance. And the downside of the howl, the hp cost? Total non issue for these guys with their regen.
Imagine having 10 of these fuckers pour out of a ship like a god damned furry clown car and just immediately ruin the morale of everyone in sight. It's going to be glorious. My only regret is that abusing them too much would steal titles from our crew, so we're going to mostly use them for capturing weaklings and scouting.
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Edit: Oh, if anybody wants to be brought back/in as an ogre or gal preferentially, now is a good time to bring it up. I believe turkishronin, Gandalf and Modron are still on the waiting list right now. Current plan is to make the first two gals and Modron into an ogre.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,254
Ohh, so I've been totally sleeping on canteen o' wisdom sitting in my research list for probably half a year. Great...

Here's the same numbers for canteens

b1TDfGm.png


OK, definitely pretty decent. 165k a month over the plantation as long as you are ending with the plantation.
 
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std::namespace

Guest
Also, Slut has steadily been building up strength through heavy weapon titles. If I can get some more I can probably try move her back to melee. Though that seems suboptimal with her freak gal stat spread.
I wanna be a dragon Wench. Give me a Wench outfit, a melee guardian, and go Charm some dudedettes! That be
 

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
10,142
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
And your shootdowns very often include ammo in the loot.
Not of civilian craft though? I find craft ammo to be kind of a problem, but I'm admittedly skipping a lot of necroplane stuff.
I don't think it cares about the armor values of the armor. Otherwise Catgirls in fur with 6 armor would still take damage and that doesn't seem to be the case.
20*0.3-6=0.

You gain infamy for all shootdowns aside from Govt craft AFAIK (and when you assault the ship you'll see if its Govt, and lose infamy in the mission). All I know is that since I achieved complete global radar networks and civilian shootdown I've had scores in the 5 digits.
Yeah, I looked it up in the pedia, and it seems most civilian traffic is worth 20 infamy. Not a lot, but it's something.
I'm basically pulling 10k score every month now, early year 2, even without farming civilians everywhere. It's not that hard once you've researched a lot of mission types and do a lot of them, since even trivial missions like bandit camps or zombie hunts will usually net you 500-800 score. And you get a lot of infamy just from finishing research as well when you've got 20+ brainers.

Also I am apparently sleeping on javelins, they look really good in that screenshot.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
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Oh yes, Javelins are amazing. My frontline gals w/ heavy armor always have them in their backpack. Obviously melee is the first option but if an enemy is too far away its very easy to pick them out and heave one or two. Throwing weapons in general seem more accurate than direct fire weapons even with the same % accuracy, due to some difference in the algorithm. Consistently gets through heavy armor of anything below a tank and pretty much always instagibs unarmored infantry. ANAL says its 0-200% spread with two dice rolls. I assume that means it rolls twice and averages it for the final damage? Either way its pretty consistent in damage. Aqua javs give marginally more damage, 2 more tiles range, and are lighter.

Not of civilian craft though? I find craft ammo to be kind of a problem, but I'm admittedly skipping a lot of necroplane stuff.
I avoid Necros because they kind of suck to fight, strong enough weapons to often seriously wound through chainmail and their huge HP means they don't go down nicely. Not valuable enough to waste the time trying to take them out cleanly with no risk. Still, shoot everything you can down. In my experience necros like to assault your bases if they detect you and you aren't destroying them.

There's plenty of pirate traffic though. They tend to be in the beige ships though I think I've seen them randomly in civilian craft. They usually have 25mm guns and ammo. Usually takes like 20-30 rounds of 25mm to take them down and they'll have 250 for you.

And you get a lot of infamy just from finishing research as well when you've got 20+ brainers.

Get on my level

BlZU02c.png

>government attacks me
>defend myself
>government gets more mad at me
damn its just like real life

AhKPoTz.png
 
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Arrowgrab

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
643
Edit: Oh, if anybody wants to be brought back/in as an ogre or gal preferentially, now is a good time to bring it up. I believe turkishronin, Gandalf and Modron are still on the waiting list right now. Current plan is to make the first two gals and Modron into an ogre.
I'm still on the waiting list for a gal called Tits Randy.
 

Fedora Master

STOP POSTING
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
31,774
Amazing to see how much this mod squeezes out of the old UFO games.

I wanna be a werewolf! Call me... Furdora Master :troll:
 

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
10,142
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
I avoid Necros because they kind of suck to fight, strong enough weapons to often seriously wound through chainmail and their huge HP means they don't go down nicely.
By necroplane I don't just mean necrozombies, various criminal elements use necroplane tech. I agree necropirates are not usually worth fighting.

Get on my level
You're clearly a lot further into the game than me, with a count like that :M
I think I'm doing pretty good with 25 total scientists in feb year 2. Would have more, but I lack glamour for gray codex special building, and I don't really feel like spamming libraries (1 million and a full building slot for a single brainer is kinda crazy)
 
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I did spam some libraries (across 5 extra bases) along with two analytics rooms (Apr year 2). I think I'm starting to run out of research though, chewing through all the random interrogations now (year 2 Jul).

In retrospect I'm not sure if it really helps that much

Past Chain mail/Plate mail I haven't really unlocked anything similarly transformative to gameplay for a long time. There's a lot of armor tech but it's not really better than plate? One of the tips I've heard was "don't sell your chips, wait for the mint to make more money", but having just researched mint now (and it has a 48 day construction time), that seems insanely dumb. I hit the "I have too much money" point (20M in bank) long ago just selling all the chips and investing it. I don't see a way to rush mint early game so I dunno what this advice is about unless its supposed to be a red-herring because there's also in-game advice on it.

Glamour to me is apparently like healing potions in RPGs, never use them and hit the late game with 2000 in your backpack. Think I'll build 4 more of those research structures.

Annoyingly the tech for aircraft are gated behind finding documentation for newer craft. The ways to find them seem to be:

- Wait for them to show up (I'm not sure if its time base or if I'm supposed to let smaller craft escape for bigger to appear later?}
- Capture a ton of engineers (kind of hard considering its 1 or 2 per rare mission)
- Spam research data discs. They can give practically anything apparently so spam through all the other researches and interrogations to clear room, I'll still need to go through like 100 discs though. Also spam interrogate ninjas
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,254
I've felt the same that I need nothing other than guerrilla/chainmail.
Plate mail is definitely a noticeable upgrade. It basically gives you the forward shielded chainmail level armor on all sides, lets you use both hands, and at less weight. The shielded plate mail combo seems excessive, for the most part only explosives can significantly hurt you anyway. Absolute pain in the ass to produce though.
 

turkishronin

Arcane
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
1,734
Location
where the best is like the worst
One thing I've noticed compared to old updates is that game is much more generous with dishing out negative infamy events. I had to do basically nothing to end a month with negative score in 2021 version.
fFM4P9Zrgtx7.png

o7
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,254
What difficulty? I've tried the highest difficulty and its stupidly punitive both in events and in the Ninjas establishing bases everywhere. I think aside from that everything is pretty reasonable.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,254
Anyone have tips for how to use Voodoo? Tried it and it seems kind of... bad? It seems wands are essentially mediocre short ranged guns that scale off voodoo skill/power and cost energy/morale/freshness to use. Maybe I'm supposed to spend months training a bugeye but its so short ranged and they are so weak in armor/HP that it feels suicidal to risk them on the frontline.

Also is there any info on how burn damage works? Its supposed to do 5-10 damage per hit but that doesn't really make sense. Rod of hellfire scales power with voodoo mastery (not sure what that is, stats are skill/power), and it takes 27 TUs for a single shot (as opposed to a flamethrower hitting 8x in a volley), so I'm not sure how this is supposed to be useful if power doesn't improve damage.

What difficulty? I've tried the highest difficulty and its stupidly punitive both in events and in the Ninjas establishing bases everywhere. I think aside from that everything is pretty reasonable.
Davy Jones
Not sure what to say then. Events on their own just don't seem that bad too me. You're sure its from them and not enemies running missions?
 

std::namespace

Guest
Rod of hellfire
mastery requires voodoo school
is skill*power
rod has x3 tostun and x25 tomorale
non vanilla fire effect
guessing:
it might roll something like
70x70x0.04=4900x0.04=200 dmg
now apply burn resist if any
say 0.5 so thats 100 dmg
x25 tomorale is 2500
/10 if enemy with 100 bravery
still 250 morale dmg

.....maaaybe.....

just try it out on your own gals
i think you require the vooschool training once

wands possible niche is imho killing living things in max armor
and memes
infiltration weap too
 
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std::namespace

Guest
acshually it doesnt have to_health or vs_armor modifier, like willie pete or some other fire weaps that do more hp damage than 5-10, so its probably just the aoe size from voodoo mastery.
stun and morale dmg than from the usual 5-10
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,254
So... I guess the use is that with high voodoo stats its like an absurdly big incendiary grenade? Would 200 voodoo mastery add 20 tiles of radius?

Might be interesting but it feels like voodoo comes online really late and requires a lot of training, at which point standard weapons are already pretty baller...
 

Gumsmith

Educated
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
135
They are a tad expensive to recruit, but we've got plenty of sectoweed being produced at our secondary base. Mutant meat is actually our bottleneck, and it's easy to get mountains of that from a monster hunt. And obviously, the biggest problem is capturing the rare bastards to begin with. But after that catgirl mission where we raked in a ton of them, we're set for life on that front.
Can't you just buy the meat? It unlocks very early I think.
 

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