Why D&D 2e is the BEST edition ever.

[Cryomancer]

unthinkable

Yep. Sadly, now instead of executed carpenter cultists, we have equality cultists destroying everything good... BTW, I wish that Jack Chick "Dark Dungeons" was right...

JAck Chick Dark Dungeons

Complete story >> http://www.heavymetal.com/news/comics-news/jack-chick-died-happy-halloween/

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

https://www.chick.com/information/article?id=Should-A-Christian-Play-Dungeons-and-Dragons

Therefore, here are just a handful of the tragic deaths reported (as of this writing) to be related to D&D:

1. The "Freeway Killer," Vernon Butts, who committed suicide in his cell in 1987 while being held as a suspect in a string of murders, was 51
2. D&D player (14 years old) commits suicide by hanging, 1979, name withheld by parents' request.
3. D&D player (17 years old) Michael Dempsey, Lynnwood, WA. suicide by gunshot wound to the head, 5/19/81. Witnesses saw him trying to summon up D&D demons just minutes before his death.
4. D&D player (age not mentioned) Steve Loyacano, Castle Rock, CO., suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning, 10/14/82. Police report satanic writings and a suicide note liked the death to D&D.
5. D&D player (21 years old) Timothy Grice, Lafayette, CO., suicide by shotgun blast, 1/17/83. Detective reports noted, "D&D became a reality. He thought he was not constrained to this life, but could leave [it] and return because of the game."
6. D&D player (18 years old) Harold T. Collins, Marion, OH., suicide by hanging, 4/29/83. Collins was noted to be "possessed" by D&D as if he were living the game.
7. D&D player (16 years old) Daniel Erwin, Lafayette, CO., murder by brother's shotgun blast to head, 11/2/84 (right after Halloween). Death was apparently the result of a death pact as part of the game.
8. D&D player (12 years old) Steve Erwin (see above) suicide by gunshot, 11/2/84. Detective report: "No doubt D&D cost 52
9. D&D player (no age given) Joseph Malin, Salt Lake City, UT., pled guilty to first degree murder 3/2/88 and was sentenced to life in prison. He killed a 13-year-old girl while acting out the fantasy-role game. The girl had been raped, her throat cut, and she had been stabbed twice in the chest. Police said his "violent urges were fed by 'extreme involvement in the fantasy role-playing game Dungeons 53
10. D&D player (14 years old) Tom Sullivan, Jr. got into Satanism and ended up stabbing his mother to death, arranging a ritual circle (from D&D) in the middle of the living room floor and lit a fire in its midst. Fortunately, his dad and little brother were awakened by a smoke detector; but by then, Tom, Jr. had slashed his wrists and throat with his Boy Scout knife and died in the snow in a neighbor's yard. (1/19/88, Amarillo, 54
11. D&D player Danny Remeta went on an eight-state crime spree, including murder. In an interview in the DETROIT FREE PRESS, he asked, "Have you ever heard of Dungeons and Dragons? That had a lot to do with it … It is not just a board game. It's a lot deeper than a board game. I've got five friends that are locked up for the same thing [murder] right now because 55
12. D&D player (14 years old) Sean Sellers was convicted of killing his parents and a convenience store clerk in Greeley, Oklahoma (1/11/87). He was the youngest inmate of death row in the country before being executed for his crimes. His involvement in hard-core Satanism began with D&D, according to his own testimony. Praise the Lord; he became a Born Again Christian some time before 56

Notice how all of these are in or around the 1980s?

Pretty obvious they were either going for an insanity defense or else it was the press trying to spin a story for sensationalism.

There were elements to the "Satanic Panic" that were factual. The Finders Cult, for example, is something the FBI recently declassified and it turns out they apparently were trafficking children and making them do weird rituals.

 

[Alex]

2E is fun; fantastic magic item table.

But, kits are gay, and nobody wants to play a 2E cleric.

2E clerics are the fucking worst POS ever created

What are you talking about? I am not a big fan of how D&D dealt with clerics in general. But out of all the versions, 2e had the biggest variety with clerics, thanks to the sphere spell divisions.

"Variety" doesn't mean effective, or fun to play.

Thankfully, in this case, that is included. Unless you want to actually make an argument to the contrary?

 

[Gyor]

5e is better then 2e, although 2e was a great time for lore.

 

[Bara]

Yep. Found a great DM that enjoys most mid level content and said that till about lv 8, we will probably get a level per session. Is not 2e, but is close enough. And ascending AC, not THAC0;

So how'd it got anyhow?

 

[Reinhardt]

Everyone is ded. You don't fucking mess with Orcus and his 40.000 liches.

 

[Mortmal]

Yep. Found a great DM that enjoys most mid level content and said that till about lv 8, we will probably get a level per session. Is not 2e, but is close enough. And ascending AC, not THAC0;

So how'd it got anyhow?

It's his first time, give him time to recover so he can seat again and post .

 

[Cryomancer]

So how'd it got anyhow?

Was very fun, Saturday, I saw how my party was. My party was caster heavy. 3 Magic users(myself included), one Druid and one Cleric. I got introduced to the party in a tavern(I know, clichê as possible) and discovered that they are investigating kidnappings, joined the party and we started to inquire in the town, the druid assumed a bird form and used fly to scout people, the DM made him roll to see if he found anything useful and found a guy with black hooded robes casting a spell, making the victim sleep and picking the victim and then using invisibility magic. Then he shapeshifted into a animal with good tracking ability and we tracked the mysterious hooded figure into a cave nearby.

There, the H&S started for a few hours. We found some treasure, the DM was gerous and gave to each magic user, a third level magic spell. One magic user got the fly spell. Other got the summon monster 1 and I got lightning bolt. None got fireball and we was lv 4 at moment. We CAN'T learn this spells. However, after picking the treasure, a lot of undeads starting to appear and since our orders was to get information, not to kill the villain, we decided to leave. The magic users made the party invisible and we started to try to flee the cave. Then a alarm was sounded and the undead started to move really fast. One of our guys bumbed into a undead and then we had to roll initiative and fight then. Luckly, our cleric turn undead saved the party and we managed to flee from the fortress and reported to the town mayor. There, we leveled up and I learned the lightning bolt spell.

This was the Saturday campaign. On Sunday :

The mayor insisted that we should try to clear that dungeon but we said that is better if we go to the capital and ask for help. The mayor said that the town doesn't have founds to hire better adventures and that he would have to borrow money but we convinced him that we can't clear that dungeon, so he asked us to scout him to the capital. And while scouting, only few random encounters happened. On the capital, we started to try to convince a (gnome) banker that that small coastal town destruction would hurt his business and when a noble with visible grudge against the gnome steeped on our side and said a loud speech about how is the duty of the kingdom to protect all of his subjects, then ordered the gnome to assist us. He did the bare minimum, sending only few poorly trained "mercenaries", all lv 1~3 and then, we traveled back to the coastal poor town and headed to the dungeon with about 30 mercenaries. reached the final room with about 10 causalities and all of villagers was killed with some weird symbols inscribed with daggers on it. The owner of this place, clearly already fulfilled his objective and leaved. Most treasures was left and most books and valuable information too. We stayed a bit to search, we found just a magical dagger and few gold coins. Then when we left the dungeon, the gnome hired a small army to kill us, a group of about 20 guys with chain armro and halberds, 5 horseman with pikes and few crossbowman behind shields was waiting us. Then I loud said "you know, after killing us, the gnome will kill you guys too. Right? You know too much"

And then, I bluffed and convinced him that the dungeon behind me is a mine gold. Bluffed saying that the gnome want to devaluate the price of lands in the wilderness, so the gnome guild(I din't even knew if this exists in the world that we are playing or not, was just a bluff), would monopolize food distribution after purchasing this lands, then the druid dropped about 80 gold coins and said that that is what we can carry, go inside and pick anything that you want. Is much more than what the ""gnome guild"" is paying you guys.

Then the mercenaries entered the cave and we leaved. And that is how the second section ended. We reached lv 6 on end. And next Saturday, we will play a bit more. Finally reaching mid levels.

We aren't using XP on the game. We are using milestones.

• Lv 1 require one milestone to lv up. Lv 2 requires 2 milestones and when reaching mid levels, you start to need 2x more milestones. At lv 7, you need 14 milestones.
• Magic users needs always one more milestone to level up since they level up slow in the game.
• A easy combat worth half milestone.
• A normal combat worth a mileston
• A hard combat worth two milestones
• Talking your way out, rend milestones depending on how the Referee sees appropriated
• Same with detecting hidden doors, secret passages and so on

Everyone is ded. You don't fucking mess with Orcus and his 40.000 liches.

LOL. Orcus only has 100 liches on throne of the bloodstone and it is not clear if they are high level archwizards turned into liches or magically created liches via "create any monster" and similar spells.

 

[Reinhardt]

and it is not clear if they are high level archwizards turned into liches or magically created liches via "create any monster" and similar spells.

You said yourself even their servants are epic level.

 

[Cryomancer]

You said yourself even their servants are epic level.

Never said that.

Anyway, I remember when you said that "when you get fireball is mid level",

On complete wizard handbook - page 16, when he mentions the most desired spells for evokers :

For transmuters, the most desirable mid level spells. As you can see Tenser's transformation, disintegrate and teleport are considered mid level spells. Polymorth self and polymorth other are spells which on P&P has 1001 uses, but in video game is merely a buff/debuff due technology limitations.

 

[Trithne]

Even + Dwarf only exists on the movie adaptation of Hobbit... And robes and dresses are two different things. BTW, do you know how the Mul race exists in dark sun? Due rape cuz no human woman wanna dwarf. They only have half dwarf child as slave when their have no other choice and a lot of then must be under watch otherwise, they tend to commit suicide since is better than having a half manlet child.

I just feel the need to interject that the mothers tend to kill themselves if pregnant with a Mul because it is widely known on Athas that the mother almost never survives giving birth to one anyway so might as well get it over with now.

That being common knowledge in turn implies that human women will avoid sleeping with dwarves, to avoid a likely fatal pregnancy.

Seriously Victor, you have issues ranting about "manlets" like this. I get that you're a Wizard Supremacist, but Elves too?

 

[Cryomancer]

I just feel the need to interject that the mothers tend to kill themselves if pregnant with a Mul because it is widely known on Athas that the mother almost never survives giving birth to one anyway so might as well get it over with now(...)I get that you're a Wizard Supremacist, but Elves too?

Woman hate manlet IRL. Why would be different in fiction? There is any man with dwarfism(the disease, not the fantasy race) IRL which woman desires with passion? I an just 1,84m(6' 1") tall. Not that tall, but not a manlet either. Women choose taller men over short man (in spite of being told short man is a doctor/millionaire) [1:13]. I Watched the Hobbit my Ex Girlfriend and she laugh during the "elf/dwarf" romance scenes. To have half dwarf, you need the most tyrannical world of the "verse", a brutal slavery system, force the woman to take the manlet seed and even watch her to make sure that she will not kill herself. Half elves in other hands, only needs humans and elves in the same place. Same with half vampires(dhampir).

--------------------------

On my S&W table, the DM decided to pit the gnome guild which I mentioned as a bluff and make it a full fledged antagonist guild wanting to have monopoly on naval trade and food.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

 

[Rean]

I Watched the Hobbit my Ex Girlfriend and she laugh during the "elf/dwarf" romance scenes.

Male dwarves are the pinnacle of masculinity, the majority of them having about 2800% more testosterone than the average human male (elves have no test).
I really hope some of your posts are comedy, but if you look to The fuckin Hobbit for what dwarves should be or look like, you need help.

^^^ This shit needs to burn

 

[Cryomancer]

but if you look to The fuckin Hobbit for what dwarves should be or look like, you need help.

Some of my posts are comedy but hobbit(the MOVIE, not the book) is the unique place where I saw romance of a elf and a dwarf. In fact, if you look into the stories which females mostly write about fantasy creatures, the most desired fantasy creature for females is the vampire.

Arcanum did manlets right. See at 5:30 of SsethTzeentach video

 

[Nortar]

I just feel the need to interject that the mothers tend to kill themselves if pregnant with a Mul because it is widely known on Athas that the mother almost never survives giving birth to one anyway so might as well get it over with now(...)I get that you're a Wizard Supremacist, but Elves too?

Woman hate manlet IRL. Why would be different in fiction? There is any man with dwarfism(the disease, not the fantasy race) IRL which woman desires with passion? I an just 1,84m(6' 1") tall. Not that tall, but not a manlet either. Women choose taller men over short man (in spite of being told short man is a doctor/millionaire) [1:13]. I Watched the Hobbit my Ex Girlfriend and she laugh during the "elf/dwarf" romance scenes. To have half dwarf, you need the most tyrannical world of the "verse", a brutal slavery system, force the woman to take the manlet seed and even watch her to make sure that she will not kill herself. Half elves in other hands, only needs humans and elves in the same place. Same with half vampires(dhampir).

Dude, you're like a broken record, keep playing the same tune over and over.
You've already been shown that in D&D, the elves are way closer to what you're calling manlets by anatomical standards.
But realize already, that seeing different races as different kinds of humans - pointy-eared humans, stocky bearded humans - is very primitive, if not to say childish.

Dwarves are not humans. Human standards of beauty are alien to them.
Expecting an "average dwarf" to regret his height compared to a human is like expecting a human to regret his height compared to an elephant.
More than that. Human women should not be attracted to dwarves, and vice versa, unless they are into inter-species perversions.

And if you're lusting for all those elven non-human fuckdolls, you better check if you perchance get aroused by sheep, - it's the same degree of moral decay.

 

[Cryomancer]

Dwarves are not humans. Human standards of beauty are alien to them.
Expecting an "average dwarf" to regret his height compared to a human is like expecting a human to regret his height compared to an elephant.

You are right.

However, if people can mock casters by wearing "dresses"(read : robes in a world where people wear all types of things that would be ridiculous IRL), I can mock dwarves too by calling then manlets.

 

[Nortar]

However, if people can mock casters by wearing "dresses"(read : robes in a world where people wear all types of things that would be ridiculous IRL), I can mock dwarves too by calling then manlets.

Perfect reasoning.
You're butthurt about something, and so you're lashing out about different thing at different people?

The great power should come with great responsibility, you know.
You're just not ready for epic levels, mate. Level 1-2 tops, and only if you're not given sharp toys.

 

[Cryomancer]

You're butthurt about something, and so you're lashing out about different thing at different people?

Nope. Just an mocking a thing that they like using the same nonsensical tactic. Believe or not it generates much more butthurt from their part than any other response.

You're just not ready for epic levels, mate. Level 1-2 tops, and only if you're not given sharp toys.

Who you are to dictate which levels I should play? I found a amazing DM and an having a really good time on S&W. If I wanna play as a Immortal in Mystara and find a group which wanna do it, it is not your business. If I find a place where a lot of 2E fans hangs out, I will try to find a group and play CM1 Test of the Warlords, I will play it and don't care about your opinion. If you get fun playing a lv 0 dwarf and after years getting a level on fighter, good for you, but that is boring to me. What is the next? You will start to try to dictate what classes and things that people can do in single player games too? Will demand that people stop using firearms in fallout new vegas? That people play 4E?

 

[Morblot]

Thread's going places.

 

[Trithne]

That people play 4E?

Let's not get felonious here.

There is a point to be made that low level D&D really isn't as bad as you seem to think. It's also high lethality, which you have praised elsewhere. A good GM can run a level 1-4 game just as interesting and dynamic for the players as a level 20 game, possibly more so, since limitations have a tendency to breed creativity.

This isn't saying that there's anything wrong with your preference cor higher level content, but you keep looking down on low level content as boring, which is why you come across as just wanting to be an awesome button.

 

[Nortar]

You're just not ready for epic levels, mate. Level 1-2 tops, and only if you're not given sharp toys.

Who you are to dictate which levels I should play? I found a amazing DM and an having a really good time on S&W. If I wanna play as a Immortal in Mystara and find a group which wanna do it, it is not your business. If I find a place where a lot of 2E fans hangs out, I will try to find a group and play CM1 Test of the Warlords, I will play it and don't care about your opinion. If you get fun playing a lv 0 dwarf and after years getting a level on fighter, good for you, but that is boring to me. What is the next? You will start to try to dictate what classes and things that people can do in single player games too? Will demand that people stop using firearms in fallout new vegas? That people play 4E?

I could not care less to "dictate" you anything.
It was an observation regarding your maturity.
As I mentioned before, I tend to believe that people who prefer epic(!!) levels
are generally those who have very vague impression of what that kind of power means and only see bigger numbers, instead of bigger picture.

 

[aleph]

I just feel the need to interject that the mothers tend to kill themselves if pregnant with a Mul because it is widely known on Athas that the mother almost never survives giving birth to one anyway so might as well get it over with now(...)I get that you're a Wizard Supremacist, but Elves too?

Woman hate manlet IRL. Why would be different in fiction? There is any man with dwarfism(the disease, not the fantasy race) IRL which woman desires with passion? I an just 1,84m(6' 1") tall. Not that tall, but not a manlet either. Women choose taller men over short man (in spite of being told short man is a doctor/millionaire) [1:13]. I Watched the Hobbit my Ex Girlfriend and she laugh during the "elf/dwarf" romance scenes. To have half dwarf, you need the most tyrannical world of the "verse", a brutal slavery system, force the woman to take the manlet seed and even watch her to make sure that she will not kill herself. Half elves in other hands, only needs humans and elves in the same place. Same with half vampires(dhampir).

--------------------------

On my S&W table, the DM decided to pit the gnome guild which I mentioned as a bluff and make it a full fledged antagonist guild wanting to have monopoly on naval trade and food.

You really outdid yourself here, that is dumb even compared to your usual posts.

 

[Cryomancer]

It's also high lethality, which you have praised elsewhere. A good GM can run a level 1-4 game just as interesting and dynamic for the players as a level 20 game, possibly more so, since limitations have a tendency to breed creativity.

I never said that is bad. Just that I don't like. Looking into the World of Darkness. I would love to play Mage : The ascension and would't like to play Wraith: The Oblivion. This means that I hate Wraith: The Oblivion? No... Or with GURPS. There are no levels on GURPS. There are low tech, no magic adventures and high tech, high magic adventures. If I prefer to play GURPS technomancer over ancient rome GURPS, is just my preference.

Everyone who enjoy different things than I is immature

Yep. Liking to have fun on hobbies, such a lack of maturity.

I tend to believe that people who prefer epic(!!) levels
are generally those who have very vague impression of what that kind of power means and only see bigger numbers, instead of bigger picture.

By the love of Mystra...

1 - On tabletop games, I prefer mid levels. Already said it many times. Only on video games I prefer high/epic level because the epic level campaigns for NWN1 and 2 are amazing. In TT is hard to find good high level modules.
2 - I mentioned lower numbers as a 2E advantage.
3 - I mentioned a lot of cool spells that do far more than just throw big numbers. Magic in D&D is interesting exactly because you can do much more than throw big numbers. And you don't need to go to stop time and wish to have this spells. Polymorth, Stoneskin, Disintegrate, Teleport(...) all amazing mid level spells.
4 - "responsibilities" -> What if I wanna play a chaotic character who doesn't care about law and responsibilities? Not only you wanna dictate the level which I should play, the class which I should play but also the alignment?

Honestly I give up. Computer adventures like Hordes of the Underdark and Mask of The Betrayer are all about big numbers on the screen like Diablo 3. Tabletop modules should be only about killing kobolds in sword coast. All adventures on the city of embers, abyss and etc should be burned. Modules about civilization building also should be burned. Because you are only allowed to have fun in the way that I want /sarcasm.

----------------

Now seriously. GURPS community has much more maturity than D&D community. I never saw a GURPS player wanting to impose his preferences upon other people.

 

[Cael]

The HP bloat in 3.x and beyond is not at low levels. It is at mid-high levels.

Compare the standard 1dx+con bonus of 2E until level 9 or 10 or whatever (i.e., with the dice rolling for HP stops). A Con of 18 nets you +4 per level for Fighter types. +2 max (16 Con) for non-Fighter types. So the difference between 2E and later is, at this point, around +20 for non-Fighter types absolute max.

After that, you get +1 to +3 per level fixed. Compare that with the continuous 1dx+con bonus of 3.x and beyond. THAT is where the HP bloat kicks in.

One of the truisms of 3.x is that HP damage for casters is a waste of time because of HP being so high and Heal being a thing. This assumes you will have the HP to survive until the Heal goes off. That truism only really holds when you are into the levels with Heal is a thing (i.e., level 11+), which is precisely when the HP bloat makes itself felt. At low level play, there is very little difference between 2E and 3.x. A blaster caster is extremely viable, as the 3.5 version of ToEE proves.