Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

Brian Fargo presents: Butthurt Begins

Re: A Main Character
by krapht » March 17th, 2012, 7:28 am
Wasteland was before my time. I became familiar with Fargo's work through Fallout 1+2, and the BG series, and I decided to take a chance since I read that Fallout was the spiritual successor to Wasteland, and I really enjoyed Fallout. I'm in favor of having a main character and recruitable NPCs. I enjoy the game more when my party characters all have fleshed out backgrounds and characterization. Frankly I can't remember any of my party members from my IWD and Fallout Tactics playthroughs - they were just walking min-maxed stat sheets that I used for combat purposes. If somebody in my party died I really didn't have any emotional investment in them. On the other hand I can clearly remember spending hours trying to keep Dogmeat alive because dammit, he was my dog and only friend in the wasteland.

Maybe I'm off base though. But I'm expecting an RPG --- the vibe I'm getting is that Wasteland was Jagged Alliance 2 but with a crappier combat system, but that wasn't what I had in mind when I backed the project.

 

[Lexx]

In worst case, go FNV way with "toggle eastereggs yes/no" button and be done.

 

[Roguey]

I'm also wary of the 18 month development cycle he talks about. For reference, Fallout 1 took 3 years and $3 million dollars from what I've read. That's enough to make one worry about Wasteland 2, especially considering the company designing the game. Fallout 1 started development in the mid 90's. Then again, Fallout 1 used a brand new, from scratch engine. Being able to license an existing engine and tweak it probably takes far, far less time than going form scratch.

However, from what BF has been saying, it seems like the entire storyline and world is mostly written already? Or maybe it's just the storyline. 6 months planning and 12 months development isn't much, and he seems deadset on getting it out in October 2013.

The last thing we'd need is this thing to be rushed out half-finished with no money to patch or finish it. I'll feel a lot more comfortable about this if the Kickstarter hits something like 3 million. The downside to Kickstarter is that you get the funding, and then you're on your own. Unless you setup some outside Paypal donations or something, you have to be a budgeting aspie to make sure your fixed budget lasts long enough to finish the game.

God, this is worrying.

Production has changed since then. A single pc today can process x1000 data compared to a pc in the mid-90s. It's faster to render simple 3d models, it's faster to design backgrounds and change textures, it's faster working with modern programming languages and gaming machines.

As I said, ToEE was made in 19 months and that was only about a decade ago. Though it was also very badly managed with a lot of feature creep and Tim Cain was aware ahead of time there was little chance he could deliver the game Atari wanted but agreed to the contract anyway (and let all those extra features Atari didn't even demand creep in) since he wasn't swimming in offers. I can only hope they come up with a clear plan with realistic goals and stick to it without caving in to the many demands of their audience but this is an RPG developer we're dealing with here so...

 

[likaq]

The more i read official forum the more i lean toward to withdrawn my money from kickstarter and give my 100+$ to Vince and his team. Two reasons:
1.Amount of retardation especially bioware and bethesda faggotry, and shit taste of a lot of people is terrifying.
2.I trust Vince and his team much more than i trust Fargo.

 

[lulurkinglurkerlurk]

Recently watched "matt chat" with Tim and Cain said,that they have fixed game,but Atari relased buged build and denied realising patch for it, ragardless of patch being ready even before game hit the stores - WTF?

 

[Oesophagus]

1.Amount of retardation especially bioware and bethesda faggotry, and shit taste of a lot of people is terrifying.

What does some mong's retardation have to do with what Fargo's doing? I really don't think they're gonna listen to the fans that much

 

[lulurkinglurkerlurk]

Brace yourself,here it comes:
http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=555

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Abandon Levels/leveling. Make Characters grow by doing, learning, practicing. Levels are an artificial constract, "me-too" in RPG world.

http://goo.gl/mod/8ySk

Sounds like Darklands. Which has a fucking awesome character generation and progression system. Don't want it for Wasteland 2, but the concept itself is not as as it initially appears.

Of course, that said...

Wasteland has an use-based system + IQ-based learning in a library, IIRC.

 

[CrustyBot]

Abandon Levels/leveling. Make Characters grow by doing, learning, practicing. Levels are an artificial constract, "me-too" in RPG world.

http://goo.gl/mod/8ySk

Sounds like Darklands. Which has a fucking awesome character generation and progression system. Don't want it for Wasteland 2, but the concept itself is not as as it initially appears.

Of course, that said...

Wasteland has an use-based system + IQ-based learning in a library, IIRC.

Ahh, I see. Thanks for that.

I'm ashamed to say that I haven't actually played W1 yet (something I'll rectify before W2 comes out). Guess I ought to keep my mouth shut next time before I reveal myself to be the dumbfuck newfag that I am.



On another note:

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=554



http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=517&p=8281#p8281

It's a good thing absolutely nobody is asking for Barbie's Magical Post-Apocalyptic Dress-Up Adventure, Atom no Kami-sama: Yamato Nadeshiko DX Hyper Challenge: Winner Is You Edition, Crossed Destinies: Doomed Love In The Wastes, or Wasteland: Thomas Kinkade Edition.

I'm sorry these things are so scary to you that "setting up a Ranger Outpost" reads as "GLORIOUS WAIFU LADY PANTIES DLC TIME". No, I really am. It makes me sad that modern RPGs have treated this audience so badly that even stuff like "It would be fun to have the characters talk to each other sometimes!" is greeted with a derisive snort followed by an apoplectic explosion of rage. I'm tired of all the DLC and Digital Deluxe Edition and "What is Quarian sweat made of?" icky fandom horseshit too. But the fact that a few people can't see that we're all here because we're fed up with something about modern RPGs just because some of us do not treat Bioware (and, by extension, modern RPGs) as literally worse than bone cancer... That's kind of not anybody else's fault.

I am not trying to make the tactical, party-based, free-roaming, turn-based, et cetera Wasteland 2 go away. The fact is, we all want that, and I expect the devs will make that. The people who think I am trying to do anything other than suggest some ideas that I feel might potentially be interesting (all the while fully secure in the knowledge that the devs will make the game we all want), speaks more to their insecurities than it does to any issues I - or anyone else who doesn't just spout the RPG Codex party line - have caused.

I'm sorry you haven't been getting the games you want. I'm sure Wasteland 2 will be the first of many new games in this genre, done to serve this audience. I am one hundred percent behind making that exact future happen. I know all of you are, too, whatever our differences. So why don't we forget those old enmities and work toward something great, hm? Let's all assume we want the best game we can get, and go from there.

Please?

 

[Infinitron]

Despite being a 90's kid, I actually have a legally purchased copy of Wasteland - via the "Ultimate RPG Archives" compilation released in 1998, which I actually got just for Ultima Underworld. It also has Wizardry Gold, Stonekeep, World of Xeen, Bard's Tale series and Dragon Wars.

I have no idea what kind of lawyer fu it took to release this thing.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I have a legal copy of Wasteland for C64. That is just disks and the vinyl album-style cover. Sadly it didn't have the manual and paragraph book.

 

[mindx2]

I have a legal copy of Wasteland for C64. That is just disks and the vinyl album-style cover. Sadly it didn't have the manual and paragraph book.

Hell, I just recently sold a complete copy AND the clue book on ebay. Wish I would have known about this and waited. I bet the final price would have been huge!

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I briefly peeked over there...

Wasteland is not about marriages, relationships, house building, or any of that stuff. Hey, I like all of those things SOMETIMES in some games. It doesn't need to be in every single game. I donated my money because I want to get what Wasteland was and I can't get anymore... turn-based, squad-based, top-down, world exploring, post-apocalyptic gaming goodness.

Spend that time making stuff equally as good as Fenster's Mind Maze, the Citadel, and all the rest before you start worrying about putting in all of the myriad romantic options it would take to please 21rst century gamers.

On a side note, honestly, I sometimes thing people that demand that stuff IN EVERY SINGLE GAME are missing something from their lives. Either that or they are looking for some sort of validation that yes, if this world was only a post-apocalypic wasteland that they could have a house and a LUH-VAH. Yes, if I was the dragonborn I *KNOW* I could have a female Nord following me around and carrying all of my stuff. If I was the savior of the galaxy, I too could get hot alien sexxin.

If you feel that way, just go out and get involved in life. You can find someone out there to help you fulfill your life. Don't tarnish MY video game with it - at least not until the GOOD stuff is in it.

Yes. Fucking hell. Thank you. We need people shouting this in Fargo's ear. Right about now.

Also:

 

[Anthony Davis]

If Brian takes any of these DirectX11, add a Dating Sim, God Ray maniacs seriously, I will be sorely disappointed and regret giving him my money. It will also insure that the game will never get done on the budget he is looking for.

Are Inxile going to do what Double Fine did and add a private forum that only the backers will have access to? People who failed to donate money to the game should not have a forum to voice their demands.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

If Brian takes any of these DirectX11, add a Dating Sim, God Ray maniacs seriously, I will be sorely disappointed and regret giving him my money. It will also insure that the game will never get done on the budget he is looking for.

Are Inxile going to do what Double Fine did and add a private forum that only the backers will have access to? People who failed to donate money to the game should not have a forum to voice their demands.

Except some of these idiots are people who donated without researching. Maybe those who donated $50 or $100 up to ensure the more serious and veteran backers?

EDIT: Updated OP.

 

[Anthony Davis]

If Brian takes any of these DirectX11, add a Dating Sim, God Ray maniacs seriously, I will be sorely disappointed and regret giving him my money. It will also insure that the game will never get done on the budget he is looking for.

Are Inxile going to do what Double Fine did and add a private forum that only the backers will have access to? People who failed to donate money to the game should not have a forum to voice their demands.

Except some of these idiots are people who donated without researching. Maybe those who donated $50 or $100 up to ensure the more serious and veteran backers?

I've met Fargo (and he's just as awesome as Sawyer, or any of the Obsdian owners) but we aren't friends, so while I can't be 100% certain, I have to believe and hope that what he said in that video is what he is going to make.

The advice I would give to YOU guys is to spend your time over there wisely. Make the point that while all this stuff is great (eye roll) it should not have priority over creating actual WASTELAND GAMEPLAY. Do it in a polite and well informed manner, which I think most of you have so far.

If one or some of you go over there and act like raving Occupy Wall Street loons and start defecating on police cars (metaphorically) you will only damage your own arguments and you will lose the support of those in the middle, like maybe those liked that Fallout 1 but never played Wasteland.

I know that the Codex can, when roused from cynicism and laziness, actually make compelling and astute judgements and observations. I know almost all of you value the good gameplay that is so hard for us to find. It is far more important that you win minds over there that it is for you to harden your e-peen by winning some stupid internet argument.

Does that make sense?

 

[hiver]

This one needs a bit of love if anyone's up for it. And its nothing urgent either.

Just a suggestion of being able to set up a forward base, as in occupy some small location and have somewhere to sleep and a few other appropriate things, nothing too big:
http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=358

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Do it in a polite and well informed manner

Ehehe. I'll leave that up to the other guys and maintain my good duty as updating the OP with useful links to woeful threads. I'm not really one for calm or polite.

 

[Renegen]

If Brian takes any of these DirectX11, add a Dating Sim, God Ray maniacs seriously, I will be sorely disappointed and regret giving him my money. It will also insure that the game will never get done on the budget he is looking for.

Are Inxile going to do what Double Fine did and add a private forum that only the backers will have access to? People who failed to donate money to the game should not have a forum to voice their demands.

Except some of these idiots are people who donated without researching. Maybe those who donated $50 or $100 up to ensure the more serious and veteran backers?

EDIT: Updated OP.

There will always be a minority who are complete idiots. Any job dealing with people will teach you that. We have to expect, and in fact from the forums there's good reason to, that the vast majority who donated at least read the description that Wasteland 2 would be an old school turn based RPG. A closed forum would benefit tremendously. I imagine closing it would make sense when the kickstarter drive is over, for now they may want the publicity.

edit: also Anthony, I'm kind of disappointing your perception of OWS is people defecating on police cars. I think you may need to understand politics better and where you get your information.

 

[riptide]

First threshold has been reached:$1,257,546 and counting. The donations have slowed to a crawl, they're slowly trickling in and most seem to be 15$ donations. Still, the game probably will break 1.5 million in a month.

 

[hiver]

If Brian takes any of these DirectX11, add a Dating Sim, God Ray maniacs seriously, I will be sorely disappointed and regret giving him my money. It will also insure that the game will never get done on the budget he is looking for.

Are Inxile going to do what Double Fine did and add a private forum that only the backers will have access to? People who failed to donate money to the game should not have a forum to voice their demands.

Except some of these idiots are people who donated without researching. Maybe those who donated $50 or $100 up to ensure the more serious and veteran backers?

I've met Fargo (and he's just as awesome as Sawyer, or any of the Obsdian owners) but we aren't friends, so while I can't be 100% certain, I have to believe and hope that what he said in that video is what he is going to make.

The advice I would give to YOU guys is to spend your time over there wisely. Make the point that while all this stuff is great (eye roll) it should not have priority over creating actual WASTELAND GAMEPLAY. Do it in a polite and well informed manner, which I think most of you have so far.

If one or some of you go over there and act like raving Occupy Wall Street loons and start defecating on police cars (metaphorically) you will only damage your own arguments and you will lose the support of those in the middle, like maybe those liked that Fallout 1 but never played Wasteland.

I know that the Codex can, when roused from cynicism and laziness, actually make compelling and astute judgements and observations. I know almost all of you value the good gameplay that is so hard for us to find. It is far more important that you win minds over there that it is for you to harden your e-peen by winning some stupid internet argument.

Does that make sense?

Does to me. Of course, sometimes it is just necessary to use a bit more harder approach but it generally should be avoided if it isnt absolutely necessary.
Supporting design of important gameplay facets is in itself a great argument against focusing on irrelevant shit.

 

[Anthony Davis]

edit: also Anthony, I'm kind of disappointing your perception of OWS is people defecating on police cars. I think you may need to understand politics better and where you get your information.

My point is that no matter how good your point is, how righteous your cause is, if you have people in your midst defecating on police cars and doing other crazy things, no one is going to take you seriously.

EDIT: I don't want to or mean to derail this thread into politics. I was just trying to use a real world example of what happened to OWS as a metaphor for what could happen at the WL2 forums.

 

[Infinitron]

I think both the troll approach and the reasoned approach have their uses.

The trolls set the tone. They make people realize, in full force, that their shit is unwanted.

Then the calmer, more reasoned folk step into explain why. Together, they create a kind of "good cop/bad cop" dynamic.

 

[skuphundaku]

edit: also Anthony, I'm kind of disappointing your perception of OWS is people defecating on police cars. I think you may need to understand politics better and where you get your information.

My point is that no matter how good your point is, how righteous your cause is, if you have people in your midst defecating on police cars and doing other crazy things, no one is going to take you seriously.

You have to admit that, given how the NYPD and the Oakland PD acted like a horde of jackbooted thugs, it wasnt's irrational to expect that some fed-up protester would make such an extreme gesture of defiance.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I think both the troll approach and the reasoned approach have their uses.

The trolls set the tone. They make people realize, in full force, that their shit is unwanted.

Then the calmer, more reasoned folk step into explain why. Together, they create a kind of "good cop/bad cop" dynamic.

Then I shall continue, unchanged.