Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[octavius]

I played the Wiz 1 version of it. For some reason I found it much less exciting than the old wireframe DOS version. So I'm not tempted to play the rest of the Saga.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Anything is better than the DOS versions.

 

[v1rus]

If someone wants to play 2 and 3, I recommend just playing the Llylgamyn Saga Playstation version that lets you roll a new party in each scenario.

Just checking, but you can transfer your old party to the next game in this version, right?

 

[octavius]

Found the Wiz1 3.0 developer's blog and asked about party transfers:

AhabJune 28, 2023 at 8:14 PM
Good question. I imagine you could just import like always, as we did not change the character file format or the disk saving function, but I don't think anyone tested this.

One thing that occurred to me is that if this works, I don't know exactly how the ninja's AC calculation would be resolved. It's entirely possible that the ninja might come into Wiz2 with the enhanced Wiz1 3.0 AC values, but would regress to Wiz2 values once you equip him.

In any event, an updated Wiz2 isn't likely, as we have no source code for it. Wiz3 is possible, but don't hold your breath.

So I guess I'll just have to try it and see.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

What do you guys think about the belief of Japanese Wizardry enthusiasts, such as aweigh and Kalarion, that DW Bradley ruined the series by changing the classic formula from Wizardry 6 onwards?

 

[Butter]

I think there's only so much you can do with the original formula, and ironically Wizardry 1 already perfected it. 6 and 7 had to change things up to keep the series relevant, and 7 is the best entry in the series. There's a ton of Japanese Wizardry 1 clones; I just wish we had more than one Wizardry 7 clone.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

What does the "character feels different" effect in Wiz5 do? A character got zapped by an "astral demon" after failing to disarm an astral cube trap, but I can't tell if anything changed.

 

[Dorateen]

If this were Might & Magic II it could be an unexpected sex change.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I've decided to try out Wizardry 1. On level 2 of the maze, my fighter gets one-hit-killed by a 'man-in-chain' (tm). Fair enough. I haul ass back to town. Rez fails. Super-rez also fails. Bye bye for good, party member



I'm not even mad, but I don't think I want to continue, knowing that in these games the bullshit only increases, so I can only assume after a certain point every single enemy has instakill chance or something.

 

[octavius]

Encountering a ninja (I assume) on lvl 2 is pretty low odds. Have you been working out grinding? I suspect the game is partly level scaled.
Anyway, I suggest maxing out Vitality on your fighter types to maximize rez chances.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Have you been working out grinding?

Dunno if it counts as grinding, but I went through level 1 like three times to get a proper grip on the game. I think I entered the next one with all party members at level 5.

Anyway, I suggest maxing out Vitality on your fighter types to maximize rez chances.

Is there any way of actually doing that outside chargen? The stat ups and downs at level-up feel completely arbitrary to me.

 

[gman42]

Is there any way of actually doing that outside chargen? The stat ups and downs at level-up feel completely arbitrary to me.

Basically either pumping at chargen or save-scumming when leveling up.

That said, if you're playing the DOS version, levelup stat raises are fucked. Considering you're not too far into it, would strongly recommend starting over with the Apple II version where stat raises actually work as they're supposed to (I think each stat should be twice as likely to rise as to fall). With the DOS version you'll basically never qualify for prestige classes (unless you, say, rerolled a million times to create a samurai to start, I think lord and ninja are unreachable at chargen) and run a legit risk of having characters die in their sleep from VIT dropping below 3.

 

[octavius]

But the Apple version has something even worse than the stats bug: it allows spell casting in the surprise round, which is extremely nasty if you face spell casters.

The Apple version also suffers from a terrible UI and colour bleeding. The recent Wiz1 3.0 fixes the surprise round spell casting (among other things), but I felt it was just too much of a chore to play. I can play the Apple II versions of Bard's Tale and Wizard's Crown, but Wizardry 1 was too much even for me.

 

[newtmonkey]

The DOS stat bug does not matter for Wiz 1, or even Wiz 2. It only becomes an issue with Wiz 3.

The way the "bug" works, is that any stat below 18 has a 1/3rd chance to drop, which is indeed ridiculous. However, in Wiz 1 (and therefore Wiz 2), you would have generated your characters with their most important stats at 18, so there's nothing to worry about.

The bug definitely becomes a total nightmare in the DOS version of Wiz 3, since the game drops yours stats to the class/race minimums.

 

[gman42]

A good point, I'd say using the 3.0 version is a must, just for that huge game balance fix plus the other misc ones (I like their making the ninja more accessible, since otherwise in a normal playthrough you'd never have a shot at making one, unless you enjoy rerolling until you get high 20s at chargen...even then you might be near completion by the time you can CC and it may not be worth it).

I don't think the Apple version UI is *that* bad, IIRC you have the tiny viewport for the actual maze graphics, and no auto-completion of spell names, but it's not like it's a beautiful work of art in DOS CGA either lol.

 

[octavius]

Wiz 3, since the game drops yours stats to the class/race minimums.

Or rather it caps them at 15, so you lose all bonuses, which is rage inducing.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Bumbling around level 3, I think this game isn't for me. Feels somewhat 'obsolete' to me for the lack of a better word, in the sense that I see little point in progressing and there are just too many annoyances to handle, including my favourite ancient RPG shtick of: "You meet 5 evil wizards + 4 evil priests, they blast you with 9 fireballs". It's also just too annoying to have to haul ass back to town so often to keep curing the assorted poisons that everything seems to be spamming when you get to level 3, because you can't possibly outheal them with spells.

Or maybe I just suck at this real bad, but still.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Bumbling around level 3, I think this game isn't for me. Feels somewhat 'obsolete' to me for the lack of a better word, in the sense that I see little point in progressing and there are just too many annoyances to handle, including my favourite ancient RPG shtick of: "You meet 5 evil wizards + 4 evil priests, they blast you with 9 fireballs". It's also just too annoying to have to haul ass back to town so often to keep curing the assorted poisons that everything seems to be spamming when you get to level 3, because you can't possibly outheal them with spells.

Or maybe I just suck at this real bad, but still.

Try reading an LP of Wiz1, like Crooked Bee's here on the Codex, or the SA LP that's on LP Archive. I consulted those when I was new to the game to see how veterans of the game played and explained it.

 

[Grauken]

You need patience for Wizardry

 

[Darth Roxor]

I restarted with a different party - by which I mean I created new characters and gave them all of the old ones' gear and money and now I have a high-level cleric character in town to cure paralysis for free

- because I had a feeling this old party was terrible, particularly when I read this:

However, in Wiz 1 (and therefore Wiz 2), you would have generated your characters with their most important stats at 18, so there's nothing to worry about.

Well I certainly haven't done that because I thought rerolling didn't exist - I even tried that a few times initially to check and each attempt gave me the same set of stats and bonus points, so I guess that's some good effin luck. So now I have proper powergamed stats from the outset, and the funniest part of it is that my characters' stats now go up much better at every level up too. Previously I would regularly get one up and three downs, now the downs are significantly less frequent. Wtf? The rich get richer I guess.

 

[smaug]

I restarted with a different party - by which I mean I created new characters and gave them all of the old ones' gear and money and now I have a high-level cleric character in town to cure paralysis for free

- because I had a feeling this old party was terrible, particularly when I read this:

However, in Wiz 1 (and therefore Wiz 2), you would have generated your characters with their most important stats at 18, so there's nothing to worry about.

Well I certainly haven't done that because I thought rerolling didn't exist - I even tried that a few times initially to check and each attempt gave me the same set of stats and bonus points, so I guess that's some good effin luck. So now I have proper powergamed stats from the outset, and the funniest part of it is that my characters' stats now go up much better at every level up too. Previously I would regularly get one up and three downs, now the downs are significantly less frequent. Wtf? The rich get richer I guess.

Level 4 is where you meet the ninja and paralysis monsters I think. Grind the ghost over and over again on floor 1 for maximum cheese.

You’ll still die over and over even if you get higher levels

 

[Darth Roxor]

I've just finished level 5, and despite saying that this game is obsolete (which it is), there's still something autistically compelling about it that I can't exactly put my finger on. It has to be the local equivalent of map painting, where stepping through every single step of the level and mapping it out to 100% gives some kind of a sense of achievement.

Nevertheless, I can't possibly imagine playing this without saving. Go through a door, the way closes behind you, and you step straight into a random encounter of 3x6 dragons or whatever, how the hell do you even survive that?

But even so, the combat can still be pretty fun at times when you run into a harder fight that isn't completely stupid. The party of high-level goons guarding the blue ribbon was particularly cool, I felt.

 

[gman42]

Nevertheless, I can't possibly imagine playing this without saving. Go through a door, the way closes behind you, and you step straight into a random encounter of 3x6 dragons or whatever, how the hell do you even survive that?

I played Wiz1 originally on floppy back in the 80s. I really did earnestly try to play it straight up, and mostly accepted even multiple character deaths and limped up to the surface many times with corpses. I think once early on I even took a TPK like a man, and recovered the characters the way I was supposed to by rolling new ones, going back in and searching for the bodies a few at a time.

But I quickly figured out that when the game hit me with some completely unfair shit, I could quickly eject the floppy before it wrote any changes, reboot, and choose whatever the option was to recover the party from a power outage (basically just took the last state of my party before that expedition and un-marked them as still being in the maze, so I could grab them at the Tavern like normal). I could have also used the option to backup my save disk (which was supposed to be only to protect against corruption/spilled coffee/etc.) but I remember that being a 20+ minute affair back in the low density 5.25 floppy days, and would have driven me nuts doing it every expedition.

So yeah even back in the days where we "couldn't" save the game, we still did. Sorta.

 

[Matador]

I've just finished level 5, and despite saying that this game is obsolete (which it is), there's still something autistically compelling about it that I can't exactly put my finger on. It has to be the local equivalent of map painting, where stepping through every single step of the level and mapping it out to 100% gives some kind of a sense of achievement.

Nevertheless, I can't possibly imagine playing this without saving. Go through a door, the way closes behind you, and you step straight into a random encounter of 3x6 dragons or whatever, how the hell do you even survive that?

But even so, the combat can still be pretty fun at times when you run into a harder fight that isn't completely stupid. The party of high-level goons guarding the blue ribbon was particularly cool, I felt.

I'm glad you see the strengths of classic Wizardry formula Although is brutal.

A good middle ground rule is only saving in town, this way the expeditions are tense but not heartbreaking. I use that (with savestates in PS1 or SNES versions) and some games like Stranger of Sword City implement that philosophy.

I'm currently playing Steam's Wizardry Five Ordeals that has classic Wizardry save system, and yesterday I had a nasty party wipe in the middle of a lake with currents and dangerous Mage mermaids bosses, currently leveling up the rescue party in case I have to fight those bitches when rescuing my guys.
Good but sick times.

The thing with classic Wizardry is that the dungeon is the focus. Your characters matter but not so much. With all the floors until the party wipe mapped and shortcuts unlocked, the rescue expedition is not so bad aside from potential encounter with the boss that killed them.

So once you have floors mastered or explored, there is not so much danger until that point, because you know what to expect and how to deal with it.

 

[Matador]

By the way. people playing Wiz 1-3,5 should play PS1 versions. Nice art and QoL features while being the same games.