Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[Poseidon00]

The Ps2 Wizardry really isn't so bad.

*runs and hides*

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Wiz 5 feels like the first real Wizardry sequel. Wiz 2-3 were just "scenario disks" and Wiz 4 is a fan mod.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I have a question regarding Wiz5 however. I saw that its maps are more like 6-7 than 1-4, in that they are no longer on 20x20 squares. Therefore, how much do they need to be mapped strictly on graph paper?

Wiz5, like Wiz1, has Dumapic as your only navigational spell and it works the same way. You might be able to get through the same way you did Wiz6, but it's not ideal. I suggest you just use Gridmonger or Grid Cartographer to make a map rather than graph paper. That, or play the SNES version, which changes Dumapic so that it gives you a minimap temporarily.

Annoyingly, Gridmonger doesn't solve this problem, because you have to set a map size to start with. One of the things I've been meaning to bug the creator about. I suppose you could always set the map size to 1000x1000 and start in the middle, but that's a bit of a hassle.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Hey guys, zoomer retard here. I've run out of late 90s CRPGs to play and decided it would be good to play some older games. I decided on Wizardry 6 since it immediately struck me as a game with a strong atmosphere and aesthetic. I'm relatively familiar with blobbers, having played SMT 1-3, Strange Journey, Legends of Amberland, and Grimoire, but I'm having quite a bit of trouble with this one. My problem is combat feels like a total crap-shoot, I understand low level RPGs are pretty rng but it seems seriously ridiculous in this game. I managed to beat 5 vines with the sleep spell and then made the mistake of taking another step without resting where I met a single rat who, despite my party being full HP, was some sort of god of death who dodged every single attack while slaughtering my party members until this single rat took my entire party from 100% hp to 0% hp.

I can get through fights fine if I save-scum and spam rest after every encounter but Wizardry 6 is well loved and I've seen people talk about 0 save play-throughs so I assume these kind of degenerate tactics aren't necessary, but I can't quite figure out what I'm doing wrong. Here's some questions/info. Any tips would be appreciated

-As far as I can tell none of the stats increase your chance to hit. According to the manual str increases damage, dex increases multi-hit (which seems to be the games equivalent of crits), and speed increases attacks per round. I assumed speed wouldn't be worth it and would require a decent investment to get your second attack, although having a second attack would obviously push things in my favour. Should I reroll and increase my speed or is it not worth it?
-Skills increase chance to hit with your weapon. I pumped 10 into the main skill for each of my party members and spread the rest into things like scouting, blocking, or skulduggery. Is this a mistake? Should I reroll and give everyone max skill in their main weapons?
-My party is fighter/fighter/thief/ranger/mage/priest, not sure if that matters much.
-I heard melee weapons have a lower chance to hit but according to the manual melee doesn't mean "melee weapons," but rather means selecting "melee," when deciding what to do on your turn. I've been using "swing," which is my best chance to hit according to the manual. I assume the manual is correct here right, and that melee weapons having a lower chance to hit is a misinterpretation?
-Does stamina affect chance to hit?

 

[Grampy_Bone]

My advice for Wizardry 6 is it's a dry run of a much better game, Wizardry 7, and entirely skippable (and Wizardry 8 destroys them both). That said, if you play through Wiz6 and import you can bring killer weapons into Wiz7 that are essentially endgame level, which makes that game very easy. Worth doing at least once for fun.

I'll also say this game is hard for grinding, don't expect a lot of XP before the very last area. Class changing around level 5-6 is your best bet, more than that and you may never overcome your prior levels.

As far as I can tell none of the stats increase your chance to hit.

There's a hidden class-based bonus per level. The fighter types get the most out of it. You just have to grind. The early area SUCKS. Be prepared to save scum and reload until you get your second level.

Should I reroll and increase my speed or is it not worth it?

Dex, spd, weapon skill, items, and class level all combine together to determine attacks and swings. Min/maxing might get you an extra attack early, but overall it's not a huge difference. Stats don't do much unless they are at least 16 in most cases. Class plays a big roll, Samurai get the most swings, followed by Ninjas and Monks.

Should I reroll and give everyone max skill in their main weapons?

This is a personal choice. You can grind up weapon skills directly and not 'waste' skill points on them. The lock and trap skills need a lot of points to be of any use and are hard to increase without levels. Spell skills should be prioritized for casters. Though I can't remember if Wiz6 has dedicated category skill points on level up like Wiz7 does.

fighter/fighter/thief/ranger/mage/priest

Should be fine. I'm guessing you're planning to multi into something like lord/samurai/ninja/valkryie/bishop/bishop etc? One thing to keep in mind, it's easier to learn spells by swapping mage and priest back and forth than bothering with the Bishop class. I planned a multi-class grind that gave everyone ninja levels and maxed out the hide and instakill skills (ninjutsu and kirijutsu?), which was a little overkill, but fun.

Does stamina affect chance to hit?

I don't think so, you just fall asleep when it runs out.

melee weapons having a lower chance to hit is a misinterpretation?

Yeah you are interpreting that correctly. Melee is a special attack on certain weapons with increased damage but lower hit chance. Melee weapons all have their own variable bonuses.

 

[Grauken]

The thing to understand about Wizardry 6 and 7 as well is that it is really all about your level vs the monster level, this affects everything including to hit chance

I can get through fights fine if I save-scum and spam rest after every encounter but Wizardry 6 is well loved and I've seen people talk about 0 save play-throughs so I assume these kind of degenerate tactics aren't necessary

these games are designed to save-scum and spam rest, so while its possible not to do it, its kinda expected

 

[Butter]

The thing to understand about Wizardry 6 and 7 as well is that it is really all about your level vs the monster level, this affects everything including to hit chance

It's more nuanced than that. Every character starts with a miss chance of 100. Every level (until you reach 20 but not while your previous highest level exceeds your current level) that miss chance is reduced by a variable amount, based on class. Fighters get 1d4 + 1 reduction, Ninjas get 1d4 + 2 reduction, Mages only get 1d3. The games don't tell you this anywhere; I only know it from looking in the Cosmic Forge editor.

Naturally, enemy AC and weapon skills also affect hit chance, plus things like Sword of Striking's bonus or debuffs like Irritated or Blinded.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I can get through fights fine if I save-scum and spam rest after every encounter but Wizardry 6 is well loved and I've seen people talk about 0 save play-throughs so I assume these kind of degenerate tactics aren't necessary,

That's where you're wrong. They are necessary, at least in the beginning and during some other tough sections. Once you get a level or two as well as some better equipment the game gets less dependent on luck, but you'll still have to rest all the time. Spend those mana points with impunity.

But also, if you're complaining about low hit chance yet barely put any points into weapon skills...

 

[perfectslumbers]

But also, if you're complaining about low hit chance yet barely put any points into weapon skills...

How was I supposed to know that putting 10 out of 15 of my skillpoints into my weapons was barely anything

Thanks for the help though everyone. I'll power through

 

[LarryTyphoid]

If savescumming and abusing resting is the optimal way to play Wizardry 6 and 7, maybe the first 5 games really were better.

 

[Grauken]

If savescumming and abusing resting is the optimal way to play Wizardry 6 and 7, maybe the first 5 games really were better.

People have been savescumming and rest-heal spell spammed in the first 5 games forever, not much different from 6 and 7

 

[LarryTyphoid]

People have been savescumming in the first 5 games forever

It's a different extreme when you're saving every couple of steps. Even Wiz6's manual recommends frequent saving, while previous Wizardries only officially allowed you to save in towns, the savescumming simply being an exploit of the "out party" mechanic.

rest-heal spell spammed

This isn't even possible in those games because you can't rest in dungeons.

 

[Butter]

The need to save-scum decreases as you get stronger. There's a guy who did iron man Wiz 7 too, so it's not essential.

 

[Grauken]

People have been savescumming in the first 5 games forever

It's a different extreme when you're saving every couple of steps. Even Wiz6's manual recommends frequent saving, while previous Wizardries only officially allowed you to save in towns, the savescumming simply being an exploit of the "out party" mechanic.

You savescum by making copies of your entire install directory whenever you feel like, people have been doing it since it was possible

rest-heal spell spammed

This isn't even possible in those games because you can't rest in dungeons.

You go back to the city, you go to the adventurers inn, you only rest in the stables (since it doesn't cost anything), you get all your spell points back, one step into the dungeon, use up all your heal spells, then back to the city if you need more

 

[Grauken]

Also, calling resting in Wiz 6 and 7 rest spamming is kinda deceptive, it's not like in some games where you press a button and suddenly are completely healed and all your spell points restored. Resting takes time, restores often very little and there's always the chance you get woken by a fight. You can savescum resting though to a degree, but overall abusing the resting mechanism in Wiz 6 and 7 is only for very patient players willing to go make a tea meanwhile

 

[Covenant]

I took a few cracks at Wiz 7 ironman - didn't quite manage it (in my best attempt I died to an unfortunate fight in the Greater Wilds with a Godzilla and a bunch of those horrible insects right before I did the last dungeon), but I'd confidently say it's possible up to at least the last level. I always found the robot enemies on the final level to be particularly bullshit, but others have said that with some minor level-grinding they're not too bad, so YMMV.

As far as rest spam goes, you're more likely to just continually use the healing fountain in New City. Resting certainly isn't fast.

Not sure I'd want to try Wiz 6 ironman, I don't think it was as well-balanced generally and it has the same trend as its sequel of big difficulty jump in the final dungeon encounters.

 

[octavius]

My advice for Wizardry 6 is it's a dry run of a much better game, Wizardry 7, and entirely skippable (and Wizardry 8 destroys them both).

Only if you really enjoy fighting endless hordes of HP sponges. Otherwise Wiz6 is superior in most respects.

 

[Average Manatee]

The thing to understand about Wizardry 6 and 7 as well is that it is really all about your level vs the monster level, this affects everything including to hit chance

It's more nuanced than that. Every character starts with a miss chance of 100. Every level (until you reach 20 but not while your previous highest level exceeds your current level) that miss chance is reduced by a variable amount, based on class. Fighters get 1d4 + 1 reduction, Ninjas get 1d4 + 2 reduction, Mages only get 1d3. The games don't tell you this anywhere; I only know it from looking in the Cosmic Forge editor.

Naturally, enemy AC and weapon skills also affect hit chance, plus things like Sword of Striking's bonus or debuffs like Irritated or Blinded.

Which leads to something of an exploit for continually leveling to a specific level before class changing. Each time you hit your max level again you double up on your hit bonus

 

[perfectslumbers]

I ended up re-rolling my party and going with Fighter/Valkyrie/Thief/Mage/Priest/Bard. Adding the bard completely changed my early game and made it a satisfying tactical challenge instead of a bullshit reload fest. Every single time I've had to reload with my current party was 100% my fault and something I could've prevented ahead of time if I prepared better or didn't get ahead of myself. That lute truly changes everything. Now I'm level 5 and finishing up the castle.

One thing that has really surprised me about Wizardry VI is how well done the puzzles and navigational challenges are. I was worried I'd run into nothing but esoteric adventure-game puzzles (I'm sure I will eventually), but for now every time I've felt lost I could progress by going to an area behind a door that I recently found the key for or solve a puzzle that I haven't done yet. The way the map slowly opens up feels very natural and logical without ever talking down to or hand-holding the player, really impressive design.

 

[mediocrepoet]

One thing that has really surprised me about Wizardry VI is how well done the puzzles and navigational challenges are. I was worried I'd run into nothing but esoteric adventure-game puzzles (I'm sure I will eventually), but for now every time I've felt lost I could progress by going to an area behind a door that I recently found the key for or solve a puzzle that I haven't done yet. The way the map slowly opens up feels very natural and logical without ever talking down to or hand-holding the player, really impressive design.

As I recall, Wiz 6 is very well designed in this way and never really feels stupidly obscure. The challenges are generally fair, though things can go sideways pretty quickly in combat later on, which isn't all that dissimilar from the feeling of the early game.

 

[0sacred]

Gonna play VII, going in completely blind. I've never played a Wizardry other than 8.

Any non-spoiler things I should know beforehand? I vaguely remember something about a bug making Fighters take double damage, stuff like that.

edit: just noticed than on Steam it comes with the Wizardry Gold manual, does it apply to VII fully?

 

[Butter]

IIRC they moved Kirijutsu from Academic skills to Physical skills in Wizardry Gold, otherwise everything there should still apply. Fighters take bonus damage from many attacks, so you should change class to something like a Lord or Samurai ASAP. You need at least 9 Swimming to avoid drowning when you step onto a water square. People generally exaggerate how much you need to grind Swimming, and you don't need to grind Climbing at all. Take lots of notes. There's one spot where you can get soft-locked if you don't know a phrase that you're told to remember.

 

[Lady Error]

Gonna play VII, going in completely blind. I've never played a Wizardry other than 8.

Any non-spoiler things I should know beforehand?

Use an external automapper and do take notes of obscure references and such.

 

[0sacred]

Gonna play VII, going in completely blind. I've never played a Wizardry other than 8.

Any non-spoiler things I should know beforehand?

Use an external automapper and do take notes of obscure references and such.

dang, the reason I don't play VI first is because I don't wanna fiddle with a mapping tool

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

There's an automap mod that works for 6 and 7.