Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Theldaran]

How shitty would my experience be if i made a no reroll character and later dual classed in bg2 if stats are there? Ive replayed bg1 and 2 about a combined 10 times and ive always minmaxedc never dual classing. Latest playthroughs have been lackluster as ive been way too op. Also, random alignment and class? Of course choosing from dual classable classes

Probably rolling ranger and dualing to a cleric would be the easiest for you if you didn't want to re-roll. You get 3 wisdom points in BG1 so getting to requirements for the Cleric would not be too hard. Dual to cleric at lvl 9 or 12 and wield Flail of Ages and Crom Faeyr when you get your ranger class back. Plus you get all the Druid (Iron Skin, Insect Plague) and Cleric spells.

I think that he didn't want to be very overpowered, so that encounters would be more challenging. Dual-wielding FoA and CF seems like munchkin. I've beaten the whole game and didn't even do it. 10 attacks in a round for melee classes seems overpowered enough to me in ToB.

 

[Lilura]

You only need 15 in stat of the class you are dualing into. That is why people dual Xzar into Cleric due to his 15 in Wisdom.

I wrote an in-depth analysis of BG1; I think I know what I'm talking about. Also, Xzar has Wis 16 (pre-requisite for Necro) and the tome bumps him to 17 for Necro/Cleric potential (see this post).

 

[ArchAngel]

You only need 15 in stat of the class you are dualing into. That is why people dual Xzar into Cleric due to his 15 in Wisdom.

I wrote an in-depth analysis of BG1; I think I know what I'm talking about. Also, Xzar has Wis 16 (pre-requisite for Necro) and the tome bumps him to 17 for Necro/Cleric potential (see this post).

OK

 

[ArchAngel]

As for having a more challenging game, installing SCS is enough

 

[GarfunkeL]

Lilura is correct: 15 in the requisite for the class you're dualing OUT of and 17 in the requisite for the class you're dualing INTO. I think there's a mod that removes that requirement and also allows non-humans to dual class but that's a different beast.

 

[Roobenator]

Well i already have the enhanced editions and i enjoy alot of the new content and especially the ui improvements.

After some testing i decided to go full random with one rule, dump charisma. Ended up with a lawful evil kensai. Stats point to thief dual class. First try was a beastmaster with awesome stats, but i picked longbow prof, which after some reading proved to be useless when dualing to cleric.

Playing Kensai might sound like defeating the purpose with the cha dump, but earlier playthroughs have been mostly traditional pure builds so atleast i feel like there's some novelty and challenge to me expected. So i need 17 dex to dual to thief am i right?

 

[Lilura]

At least Dex 17, yeah (18 will grant +1 natural AC).

If you're soloing dual-class to Thief at thirteenth level for +1/2 ApR; otherwise most people just dual at ninth.

Don't forget to use Kai (it lasts 1.5 rounds) before a backstab since it maximizes the dmg roll on the weapon.

Backstab damage = weapon roll + weapon enchantment + weapon specialization * backstab level (+ Strength bonus).

I can't remember if the Kensai bonus is multiplied or just added like the STR bonus.

Start off with something like Celestial Fury in early SoA (a Kensai/Thief can solo the compound) and move up to the Staff of the Ram.

 

[oldmanpaco]

How shitty would my experience be if i made a no reroll character and later dual classed in bg2 if stats are there? Ive replayed bg1 and 2 about a combined 10 times and ive always minmaxedc never dual classing. Latest playthroughs have been lackluster as ive been way too op. Also, random alignment and class? Of course choosing from dual classable classes

Probably rolling ranger and dualing to a cleric would be the easiest for you if you didn't want to re-roll. You get 3 wisdom points in BG1 so getting to requirements for the Cleric would not be too hard. Dual to cleric at lvl 9 or 12 and wield Flail of Ages and Crom Faeyr when you get your ranger class back. Plus you get all the Druid (Iron Skin, Insect Plague) and Cleric spells.

I think that he didn't want to be very overpowered, so that encounters would be more challenging. Dual-wielding FoA and CF seems like munchkin. I've beaten the whole game and didn't even do it. 10 attacks in a round for melee classes seems overpowered enough to me in ToB.

Well the weapon combo doesn't really matter. Could use clubs and maces I suppose. The real benefit is the druid + Cleric spells and HLA. Anyway any class combo that does not use a mage is not overpowered be default no matter what weapons you use.

 

[ArchAngel]

In BGEE they fixed the ranger/cleric combinations. From what I understand you only get access to ranger spells, not druid spells or you only get access to first 4 levels of spells like rangers do.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Bummer.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Dualclassing is, IMHO, almost always a dud game because you're putting yourself at a point where you're weak for a portion of the game. In BG1, it works if you take just a few levels (nothing can't be improved with 3-4 levels of Fighter), but I never got the point of babysitting and lots of reloading for your uber Kensai/Mage to become at all viable.

That said, if you were to go Kensai/Thief, I'd recommend Daggers as your BG1 proficiency. Taerom can sell you a poison dagger, which is one of the better weapons in BG1, and thrown daggers will be your best ranged option for a while - and you want range in BG1 before you can be comfortable in melee, especially with an armorless character. It's the only way I can imagine playing BG1 as a Kensai without making it a complete fool's errand (we're talking about a full trilogy run, yes?). You can also try out Axes for the same reason.

In fact, Daggers and Staves, while somewhat unorthodox, would make for a pretty sweet playthrough; Staves are overall solid weapons, Staff of Striking is the best backstab weapon in BG1, and in BG2: ToB they get godlike again (Staff of the Ram), with somewhat interesting options throughout SoA, like a +4 Rynn Staff or the staves of the elements (not the strongest weapons, but they keep some options open; Staff of Fire lets you cast Fire Shield and kill fire elementals in one hit, ). A throwing Kensai is a viable ranged build, too, especially Dwarves with the Dwarven Thrower; it's a solid way to make an evil-aligned Archer character, for instance. Even though Kensai is supposed to be a master of melee, you can fluff yourself to be some kinda circus knifethrower kinda guy, and the simple weapons are very in-character for a Candlekeep dweller.

Most of all, this way you probably won't feel like you're using overpowered items. Myself, I advocate that godlike stats only really matter in the beginning, because later you can replicate them with buffs and potions. Gauntlets of Dexterity alone bump certain characters to ultimate top tier in their cathegory (like Kagain and Ajantis).

 

[Roobenator]

Informative replies, thanks everyone. I have to say that dual classing is a must for this playthrough, as I've never experienced it even though I have played BG since release. The rules have been quite vague to me and not worth the effort to get into. I remember a BG2 playthrough when I had a plan to dual class an assassin. A halfling assassin.

 

[Xeon]

You can still access the Druid spells for C/R by editing the INI file.

They said it was a bug and they fixed it but didn't want to remove the option entirely for people who got accustomed to it or something.

 

[Kev Inkline]

If I was you I would wait for BG1EE:Siege of Dragonspear expansion to be released. They said the improvements from that will go into Bg1EE as well. Then start a BG1EE and play that and expansion both. If you consider yourself a master of the IE games system and find most combats easy then also wait until SCS mod is made to work with BG1EE:SoD.

Thanks for the advice. However, I thought the general sentiments around this part of the internet was that one should not touch these enhanced versions at all, but run TuTu etc instead?

 

[Xeon]

EE is pretty good, the quality of life things they added are great. I don't like the new companions so new content I didn't play much with except for Neera in BG1 and the Sorcerer, didn't touch them in BG2 but the arena thing was pretty good and the Evil sorcerer in BG1 is great as well.

BG1EE was pretty buggy and kinda of a let down at release, BG2EE was buggy but they fixed it after releasing IWDEE. Also added some of the new feature from BG2 and IWD to BG1 which it didn't have at release.

If you want to play, its probably better to wait for SoD to release, since they are going to release a new patch hopfully soon and fix and introduce more things.

 

[ArchAngel]

If I was you I would wait for BG1EE:Siege of Dragonspear expansion to be released. They said the improvements from that will go into Bg1EE as well. Then start a BG1EE and play that and expansion both. If you consider yourself a master of the IE games system and find most combats easy then also wait until SCS mod is made to work with BG1EE:SoD.

Thanks for the advice. However, I thought the general sentiments around this part of the internet was that one should not touch these enhanced versions at all, but run TuTu etc instead?

Tutu does not give you super fast loading times or some graphical options or some new subclasses. And you can ignore new NPCs and their quests.

And you can get EE editions cheap on sales.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Dualclassing is, IMHO, almost always a dud game because you're putting yourself at a point where you're weak for a portion of the game. In BG1, it works if you take just a few levels (nothing can't be improved with 3-4 levels of Fighter), but I never got the point of babysitting and lots of reloading for your uber Kensai/Mage to become at all viable.

IF anything Dualclassing makes you overpowered but Dualling in BG1 is not a good idea. In your example the Kensai should dual at lvl 9 or 12 in BG2. The XP is so generous that after a few encounters he will around lvl 8. With a party there is almost no chance that the character will die.

In BG1 its a bitch to dual because the lvl cap is so low and the xp is given out so slowly.

 

[Dzupakazul]

IF anything Dualclassing makes you overpowered but Dualling in BG1 is not a good idea. In your example the Kensai should dual at lvl 9 or 12 in BG2. The XP is so generous that after a few encounters he will around lvl 8. With a party there is almost no chance that the character will die.

In BG1 its a bitch to dual because the lvl cap is so low and the xp is given out so slowly.

If you're going to only play BG1, or play the trilogy and plan your character to only benefit slightly from the dualclassing (a few levels of Fighter for bonus THAC0, better survivability and fighting will make a stronger character than pure Mage or Thief), there's no problem with something like an ex-Fighter with 3-4 levels.

Shar-Teel, for instance, has tons of versatility in that regard, you can turn her into a Fighter/Thief and she makes a nice foil/replacement for Montaron, but you can keep her a pure skirmisher or archer if you wish as well.

And of course Imoen, for instance, is a much better potential mage (for one, you can turn her into a specialist mage that doesn't suck donkey dick, like an Illusionist) than Dynaheir, and you only need like 4 levels of Thief to be able to do everything of relevance.

Myself, I always reach level cap way before the final battle with Sarevok, and I like my roster to be six-man.

 

[agris]

Dualclassing is, IMHO, almost always a dud game because you're putting yourself at a point where you're weak for a portion of the game. In BG1, it works if you take just a few levels (nothing can't be improved with 3-4 levels of Fighter), but I never got the point of babysitting and lots of reloading for your uber Kensai/Mage to become at all viable.

That said, if you were to go Kensai/Thief, I'd recommend Daggers as your BG1 proficiency. Taerom can sell you a poison dagger, which is one of the better weapons in BG1, and thrown daggers will be your best ranged option for a while - and you want range in BG1 before you can be comfortable in melee, especially with an armorless character. It's the only way I can imagine playing BG1 as a Kensai without making it a complete fool's errand (we're talking about a full trilogy run, yes?). You can also try out Axes for the same reason.

In fact, Daggers and Staves, while somewhat unorthodox, would make for a pretty sweet playthrough; Staves are overall solid weapons, Staff of Striking is the best backstab weapon in BG1, and in BG2: ToB they get godlike again (Staff of the Ram), with somewhat interesting options throughout SoA, like a +4 Rynn Staff or the staves of the elements (not the strongest weapons, but they keep some options open; Staff of Fire lets you cast Fire Shield and kill fire elementals in one hit, ). A throwing Kensai is a viable ranged build, too, especially Dwarves with the Dwarven Thrower; it's a solid way to make an evil-aligned Archer character, for instance. Even though Kensai is supposed to be a master of melee, you can fluff yourself to be some kinda circus knifethrower kinda guy, and the simple weapons are very in-character for a Candlekeep dweller.

Most of all, this way you probably won't feel like you're using overpowered items. Myself, I advocate that godlike stats only really matter in the beginning, because later you can replicate them with buffs and potions. Gauntlets of Dexterity alone bump certain characters to ultimate top tier in their cathegory (like Kagain and Ajantis).

Ah, the fool that I am. I expected something of this kind of strategic class-building and itemization considerations when I backed PoE. Don't even get me started on encounter-design expectations... ah well, we always have the IE games.

 

[GarfunkeL]

If I was you I would wait for BG1EE:Siege of Dragonspear expansion to be released. They said the improvements from that will go into Bg1EE as well. Then start a BG1EE and play that and expansion both. If you consider yourself a master of the IE games system and find most combats easy then also wait until SCS mod is made to work with BG1EE:SoD.

Thanks for the advice. However, I thought the general sentiments around this part of the internet was that one should not touch these enhanced versions at all, but run TuTu etc instead?

Tutu does not give you super fast loading times or some graphical options or some new subclasses. And you can ignore new NPCs and their quests.

And you can get EE editions cheap on sales.

Bull.

Besides, TuTu hasn't been updated in years. It's BGT now. The Big World Setup installer makes installing an easy thing to do, the "ease of life" improvements in EE aren't really necessary, the graphical improvements consist entirely of adding a shitty blur filter and a pointless zoom feature. Woohoo, how amazing and your last defense is that it's cheap? Fantastic advice.

Stay away from EEs. You can get the originals in GOG or the seven seas and there are far more mods for them than there are for the EEs.

 

[Lilura]

but Dualling in BG1 is not a good idea.

For pro-players duals are more powerful than multis in BG1.

In your example the Kensai should dual at lvl 9 or 12 in BG2.

12? It's at thirteenth warrior level that you receive +1/2 ApR...

 

[oldmanpaco]

but Dualling in BG1 is not a good idea.

For pro-players duals are more powerful than multis in BG1.

In your example the Kensai should dual at lvl 9 or 12 in BG2.

12? It's at thirteenth warrior level that you receive +1/2 ApR...

Yeah 13th for a Kensai. My bad.

While I agree that dual characters would be more powerful than multi-class in BG1 what I meant is dueling in BG1 is a pain in the butt because of the slow xp progression. If you dual during the first few levels to get the initial bonuses of a class its not so bad but waiting until lvl 5 or 6 drags. And anyway why bother dualing in bg1? There is no XP advantage for doing it and unless you have SCS really amp up the random encounters and wizards there is not much of a tactical reason either. But then I'm not a pro-player.

 

[ArchAngel]

If I was you I would wait for BG1EE:Siege of Dragonspear expansion to be released. They said the improvements from that will go into Bg1EE as well. Then start a BG1EE and play that and expansion both. If you consider yourself a master of the IE games system and find most combats easy then also wait until SCS mod is made to work with BG1EE:SoD.

Thanks for the advice. However, I thought the general sentiments around this part of the internet was that one should not touch these enhanced versions at all, but run TuTu etc instead?

Tutu does not give you super fast loading times or some graphical options or some new subclasses. And you can ignore new NPCs and their quests.

And you can get EE editions cheap on sales.

Bull.

Besides, TuTu hasn't been updated in years. It's BGT now. The Big World Setup installer makes installing an easy thing to do, the "ease of life" improvements in EE aren't really necessary, the graphical improvements consist entirely of adding a shitty blur filter and a pointless zoom feature. Woohoo, how amazing and your last defense is that it's cheap? Fantastic advice.

Stay away from EEs. You can get the originals in GOG or the seven seas and there are far more mods for them than there are for the EEs.

I did try to use BGT to get everything installed before EE editions were even announced. It was nightmare because if you fuck up one thing during it you need to start from scratch. It took me 2 and half afternoons of tinkering before I had it working and even then some of the "safe" additions broke the balance of the game completely.

There is nothing in BGT that EE has not done better unless new installation of BGT is as quick and as painless as EE editions (which I doubt). And still loading times, zoom in/out, quick loot and changes to character screens make EE vastly superior.

BGT is for autists only now. And hipsters.

 

[Lilura]

BGT is for autists only now. And hipsters.

BGT, Tutu and EE are for fags. Play the original or go home.

But yeah, playing BG1 in the BG2 engine changes lots of things:

You have access to increased movement speed and a superior pathfinding routine. You have inventory pause, extra spells/ increased spell ranges, double-capacity quivers, bulk buy and munchkin kits. You can simply rest to cure poison and disease, a la BG2. You have the optional Rest Until Healed, Maximum hit dice on level up, 100% spell scribing success and High Mastery in chargen that everyone pretends they're too hardcore to use but secretly does, anyway.

Overworld waylays & on-rest/interval spawns have been nerfed or removed, and you can't even dual-class to and from Specialists anymore as they removed that AD&D core rule.

See? You're not the only one who can act like a cockhead.

 

[Xeon]

I kinda thought the same before about modding BGT being too much of a chore since you have to worry about the load order and compatibility but very recently I tried BWS and its pretty good, it downloads all the mods that are available, some mods couldn't be downloaded so I just said to ignore it but most of them automatically downloaded and installed, really easy but takes too long to install everything. After I installed everything, the size of the folder got to 26GB or something. Pretty cool how simple it is and easy to use tho.

Honestly tho the EE are pretty great as well, not perfect yet but installing them with SCS and some tweaks probably only takes 15min and you are good to go and I really like the quick loot and the green tint for none memorized spells. Still I kinda love the old BG2o UI, kinda wish if its possible to have that for EE. The loading too is pretty great, when you save or move to different area, its almost instant.