Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Lilura]

Does EE include the undetectable trap in that small corridor just south of the four warders?

 

[Gauldur's Bait]

Does EE include the undetectable trap in that small corridor just south of the four warders?

The Find Traps spell shows five separate small traps at that location. Lightning Fireball etc.

 

[Gauldur's Bait]

So, skipped the rest of Durlags Tower to do a couple of side quests in BG and then finish the main story in order to concentrate on AoD. One quite large bug I came across was during the Investigating the Merchant League side quest where you are

Spoiler

Ambushed by Doppelgangers inside the building.

I had finished off the enemies upstairs and went down to finish off those on the first floor, and then I noticed that there was one Aldeth and one Brandilar on the first floor, and an additional one of each on the second floor. And after all enemies were dead, there were now two of each on first floor. Too bad niether of them didn't have any special item that might have been pickpocketed twice. I was playing a custom party playthrough.

The final fight was kind of meh compared to what I remembered it (played on Core, I didn't want to go full masochist) , as all my four characters were obviously at the level cap and quite well equipped. Although I did make "good use" of the ridiculously overpowered Arrows of Detonation, Arrow of Acid, and Arrow of Dispelling, I did very little preparation for the battle. Simply charged in and,

Spoiler

Semaj, Angelo, and Tazok fell fairly quickly. Sarevok proved a bit too tough to melee (didn't use potions, that could have helped) so I kited a bit and used magic missile and summoning wands until he croaked.

Was a fun playthrough but got generally a bit too easy, even though my CHARNAME was a fighter/druid who was a wimp compared to the others. Will up the difficulty next time I play.

Fired up an old Icewind Dale final save to have a go at the finale for comparison, which proved a harder fight. Then again, the IWD party was not nearly as optimized but more role-played, although having two more characters has its uses, especially when kiting and distracting the enemy.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Unless you use SCS to buff the climax up, a well geared party at TotSC level cap will mop the floor with him, unfortunately. SCS at least forces you to use tactics a little bit, though Arrows of Detonation spam is always a working technique :D

 

[Gauldur's Bait]

Another thing that really lowered the difficulty was my Inquisitor. Especially the True Sight ability was very useful.

The party consisted of CHARNAME Fighter/Druid, an Inquisitor, a Cleric, and a F/M/T.

 

[aweigh]

lilura your website is aspie heaven. i love it. not joking. even though now it sounds even more like i'm taking the piss, but i'm not. you single-handedly made me play bg1 for first time. thanks

too bad you're a nwn1 luver instead of preferring the far, FAR superior nwn2. it'd be cool to read your analysii abilities on nwn2 stuff instead of boring old bad nwn1 )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 

[aweigh]

Another thing that really lowered the difficulty was my Inquisitor. Especially the True Sight ability was very useful.

The party consisted of CHARNAME Fighter/Druid, an Inquisitor, a Cleric, and a F/M/T.

from eerything i've read about the inquisitor class their innates are just way too good. true sight and dispel ! wow. did you finish bg1 already? what part you on

edit: ok read aboe posts. how did the FMT work out for you? seems like a case of too many options to even use them all maybe. i mean, there's still only 1 action at a time

i really like jaheira's fighter druid multiclass. i don't understand why humans can't multi and instead have to dual. since i started bg1 few days ago realized i needed a refresher on dnd 2nd ed so i been reading my old books and well, 2nd ed is indisputably more artistic and well-made in it's open-ended mechanics leave a lot of room for role play in a pnp setting. but i also had to read up on the retarded 2nd ed stuff like class/race experience tables HLAs aaaurughgg so dumb

dual classing is like the single most un-fun way to multiclass i can possibly imagine.

 

[ArchAngel]

Was playing BG1EE for the fiirst time up until the AoD release in order to have a character in place for SoD. Playing with a custom party of 4 with some minimal metagaming and min maxing and hit the level cap before

Spoiler

returning to Candlekeep

and having cleared out the upper levels of Durlags. Played it the first time several years after its release, and then without TotSC installed, so never actually completed Durlags Tower before oops, which is the other reason for the current play through. Anyway, I'm finding the lower levels, with all the traps and "puzzles", actually kind of boring, even though I do enjoy IE engine combat, which is what the tower is mainly about. Find trap, disarm, (or just let it go boom), loot, kill enemy. Repeat. Hoping taking out the guy at the bottom will be worth the suffering.

I finished Durlag once, when I played ToTSC originally. In BG1EE I started it twice and got bored about half way or so and quit it each time. After that I stopped going there except to clear the outside of high XP enemies when doing solo runs or 6 member party runs.

 

[Gauldur's Bait]

how did the FMT work out for you?

Well, since I wanted to go with a four character party with a fighter/Druid as my CHARNAME to play through Siege of Dragonspear and, eventually, BG2EE, I needed a pure melee character, hence the Inquisitor. Then, I needed a pure Cleric for buffing and healing etc. And of course you need a mage, and a thief for the locks and traps, and that character has to know how to perform in melee because of the smaller party size, hence the FMT for the fourth character.

So it was more out of necessity because of my CHARNAME choice, that I picked a FMT. Still, it came in a close second after my Inquisitor as the best character. Because it was an elf, with the added Longbow and Longsword bonuses and 19 DEX, it meant it had good THAC0 with the bow of marksmanship and good AC, which in combination with spells like mirror image and haste made it into a killing machine, not counting using the occasional invisibility spell for a midfight surprise backstab with the Varscona +2 Long Sword. The game would have been even more of a cakewalk if the FMT had had access to 4-level spells (now they cap at level 3). Just imagine shooting arrows of acid +1 /Arrows of Detonation with haste, 19 DEX, items that lower your THAC0 for bows, and the bow of marksmanship...yeah. Insta-death pretty much.

 

[Gauldur's Bait]

I finished Durlag once, when I played ToTSC originally. In BG1EE I started it twice and got bored about half way or so and quit it each time. After that I stopped going there except to clear the outside of high XP enemies when doing solo runs or 6 member party runs.

For me the abundant traps (becomes a chore to deactivate), poor pathfinding, constant crammed space together with a somehow poor atmosphere made me stop at the four wardens. It simply felt more motivating to go after Sarevok, big surprise there...

 

[ArchAngel]

Out of all IE games I enjoy BG1 the most and that is because of its big number of open maps and exploration and freedom to choose how you want to do content. Durlag Tower is opposite of that. I don't have problems with dungeons when they don't keep me too long from the outside.
Even in Skyrim (the little I played it) I enjoyed the most running outside while dungeons were all boring for me.

 

[Xeon]

Yea, I am kinda the same, I like the outside areas much more than dungeons, I really appreciate how they added the wife of Durlag or whatever that transports you outside when you finish so you don't have to backtrack all those levels, same thing with Watcher's Keep, adding an exit to every level.

 

[pippin]

Well, David Warner could read out a EULA and make it sound compelling.

Related:

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

While searching internet archives for something else I noticed this 1998 article on early (pre-BG1 release) Bioware. Quite like the idea of a team who had never worked on games before, computers sitting on cardboard boxes etc. Written by a feisty young journalist named Pete Hines.

Spoiler

Inside BioWare and Baldur's Gate

Written by:
Pete Hines
I recently had the privilege of spending a few days in Edmonton with the folks at BioWare. Almost as interesting and intriguing as the game they are currently working on (Baldur's Gate...you may have heard of it) is a bit of the story behind these guys. To say that anyone on the development team is "proven" in the area of computer gaming would pretty much be false...at least up until now.

Who ARE These Guys?

Before I made the trip to their offices, I had already met a number of the people that work for BioWare. Still, there was a lot I didn't know about them. After a couple days of playing and talking computer games, I found several things to be true of everyone I met there. First, they're nice folks. Not that this should come as a surprise or anything, but I found everyone to be genuinely nice and very easy to chat with. They remind me of the guys I went to college with. Second, they're all pretty down-to-earth. They know Baldur's Gate is going to be good, but they really don't buy into the hype thing. They just want to make a good game. Several of them almost seemed surprised when I mentioned the virtual maelstrom brewing on the Usenet about the game's release. Maybe they've been too busy to notice.

You couldn't tell by looking at any of them that they're about to release one mammoth of a game. I was kidding with Greg Zeschuk, one of the company's two principles along with Ray Muzyka, about giving his car away in a promotional contest like Carmack did. The only problem is the winner would have to prove he has a strong left leg, because he or she will need it to push the car backwards out of parking spaces since it won't go in reverse (sorry Greg, I couldn't resist). It seems you can always find someone from BioWare on the Usenet, corresponding with people who already love the game. They answer every single e-mail they get, regardless of who its from. As I walked down the hallway of their offices, expecting to look in and see fairly normal decor, I looked into Ben Smedstad's office (he's the Assistant Producer for Baldur's Gate) and saw his computer sitting awkwardly on an old cardboard box. Something about that just struck me as funny and indicative of the whole feeling I got from the company.

Next, none of these guys had worked on computer games before coming to BioWare, except for a few that tinkered with shareware. The only title some of them had done previously was Shattered Steel, a game that was nominated as 1995 Action Game of the Year by AVault. They come from jobs doing art for comic books, or working with databases, or other such backgrounds. The common thread that runs through them is their love of games, particularly RPGs. They've played all the RPGs on the market and many still enjoy playing the paper and dice versions as well.

Behind these laid-back demeanors and modest modes of transportation lie some really sharp minds. One might argue that not having a lot of prior experience creating games may have helped BioWare somewhat. They all agree that creating a game is unparalleled as a learning experience. At the same time there aren't as many egos to contend with, people saying, "Well on such-and-such game we did it like this." It's sort of like starting with a clean slate and no preconceived notions...just a lot of ideas. Ray and Greg say they tend to look for employees who are stable and interested in a long-term future with the company. The idea of hiring people who hop from one company to the next every two years -- a practice quite common in this industry -- doesn't really appeal to them much. They want a little more stability and cohesiveness than that and so far they've been pretty successful.

Fortunately for them, it hasn't meant sacrificing talent, and the lack of prior experience creating games hasn't seemed to make a bit of difference. John Gallagher, the game's art director, came to BioWare from a gig drawing comic books. He heads up the group that has put together one of the most stunning gameplay environments ever. Scott Greig, the game's lead programmer, did database work but has a real knack for games and even does some artwork. In his office is this incredible mobile of Wing Commander ships that he created by hand out of paper. It's a pretty amazing work of art and a glimpse inside the creativity he brings to the game. But the talent is evident throughout the company, and not just on Baldur's Gate. Two new projects are already in the works, although I'm not yet allowed to reveal the details. Work on the add-on to Baldur's Gate is well underway and BG2 is not far behind. The company currently employs roughly 50 people and is getting ready to expand its facilities and staff in the near future (the break room needs a serious makeover).

Ray and Greg make a point of talking about their employees. "They're the best anywhere," said Ray. "We really want people to understand how much the people at BioWare mean to us and [how] good they are." Greg talked about how they were going to shut down the office over the extended weekend, just to keep people from working. "We have a hard time making people go home sometimes," he commented. Indeed on Friday night a number of employees showed up to get a little work done or just play Baldur's Gate. Now that the game has reached a truly playable state, it's one thing everyone seems to be into. Saturday was no different, as the number of employees doubled and several multiplayer games sprung up. Of course, it's only reasonable to expect that having worked so hard to create a game of this type, people will want to enjoy the fruits of their labor. And enjoy it they will.

Get It Started

So what about this game? I mean, we've covered it a good deal and it's certainly no secret to most people. An isometric RPG based on the Forgotten Realms world, Baldur's Gate is a throwback to the days of the "gold box" AD&D games...sort of. I mean, the spirit of these games is definitely alive and kicking. Fans of the genre, whether computer or paper-based, will find Baldur's Gate sticks to its roots and stays true to the TSR legacy. I'll try not to rehash all the info out there on gameplay and features...at least, not too much.

It all starts in the beginning, where the customization is ever present. Select one of the portraits provided or create and use your own. Incidentally, those portraits are all based on people associated with BioWare. It's kind of funny to look at a portrait and then see a guy walk down the hall and say, "Hey, I know that guy!" Select your class, alignment, hair and skin color, and clothing color. Customize your character further by choosing several proficiencies, which are areas a character will be more adept in, like short swords or bows. The game features more than 100 different weapons of various shape, size, and function. Don't even get me started on all the different magic spells in the game...sheesh.

Instead of jumping right into the thick of things, Baldur's Gate lets you ease in if you want. The first town is a nice, safe little place where you can take on a few, simple sub-quests, equip yourself, and learn the controls a bit. A number of hints will come up to help you learn the different keys and functions available to you. Peruse the different types of weapons and armor available; learn how to set items, weapons, and spells for quick recall; and try the nuances of conversation. It's interesting to see how different levels of charisma affect conversation and whether or not people will talk to you. When you're ready, the "real world" awaits.

It's not so much the world you have to worry about as the seven chapters, numerous subquests, and 60-70 monsters that seem to be everywhere in it. For those who have clamored for a few more powerful monsters to be added (i.e., dragons) let me just say that there are a few things in store for you that haven't been talked about yet. Also, speaking from experience, I don't want anymore than is already in the game. I have seen the future and it scares the hell out of me. Creatures are tough and each has a different AI. Some may go right for magic users while others will gang up on the toughest fighter or simply choose the closest target.

Fighting alone would be a bummer, so you'll be able to add NPCs to your party as you play. It was really something to see the NPCs in action and observe their different personalities. My favorite is the nutjob with the pet hamster and multiple personalities. There's also the annoying halfling that you want to run through with a sword the same instant she joins your party. Between the different portraits and personalities, it didn't take long before I started to look at my party as my own and notice the way they performed. I could either let the scripted AI of each character take over in combat, or turn it off and determine all their actions myself. The scripts determine how they might react to different types of monsters and how well they'll hold up under the strain of combat. If you want, you can even create your own script for your character and make it as general or specific as you want. Players will be able to trade scripts for cautious mages or reckless thieves and can go so far as to determine actions for each and every different monster type.

It's In There

It's these things that really give Baldur's Gate an unmistakable feel. Parties can quickly assume any number of formations to combat a particular foe or protect spellcasters from harm, much like they can in Myth. Because each character in your party has a distinct personality (or personalities), and these don't always mesh, your party members can start squabbling with each other to the point of a full-blown brawl. You can choose to allow people to join when you meet them or come back and have them join later. As the game progresses, so will they, and when you return you'll find that the level one ranger that wanted to join you a while ago has advanced at the same rate as your party and may be at level three or four.

The graphics in the game are truly remarkable. Ray showed us the town of Baldur's Gate, which is really huge and a major part of the game (chapter 5). We saw how as day turned to dusk and then to night, the daylight would diminish and the light from the windows of each building gradually grew brighter. It was really something. Everything from trees and flowers to building interiors and monsters is vibrant and razor sharp. Each spell type in the game has its own unique animation and color for when your mage or cleric casts a spell. There are more than 90 different body types to account for all the different combinations of race, weapon and armor being used.

Combat is essentially turn-based, but can be played out in real-time mode. Basically, each turn in the game takes six seconds. You can assign different functions to each party member in real-time, which they will then carry out as they are able. If you want to slow things down, use the spacebar to pause the game while you issue new commands; then hit the spacebar to continue the action. Continuous use of the spacebar allows you to slow combat down to whatever pace is comfortable. Combat is an amazing experience with magic flying everywhere, sordid creatures engaging in hand-to-hand and missile combat, and the sounds of your party's battle cries. Incidentally, you can customize the different sayings that your character has by recording your own. This includes the standard response to commands, battle cries, and a number of others.

The way BioWare has set up single and multiplayer games is great. You can start a multiplayer game with a number of other players, each controlling one or more characters, and then continue that same game on your own as a single-player game if you wish. You can jump back and forth between modes if your playing partners aren't always available, and decide whether to go back to old saved games or continue with the progress you made on your own. You even have the choice of creating your own party of up to six characters from the beginning and playing the whole game as a single-player/multiplayer game and not even use any of the NPCs. Controls are set up so that the host player can determine what capabilities the other players have (i.e., spending money, pausing the game, etc.).

And the list of features continues.... A journal keeps track of your conversations and quests so you know which ones need to be completed. The game allows the use of infravision if you have at least one race represented in your party (i.e., elf, half-elf). There are several map levels that show what part of the current area you are in, and the whole world you have uncovered. The level of detail in the macro maps is pretty amazing. Stereopanning allows ambient noises, which grow and fade as you approach them and move away. The options menu will allow you to determine which parts of the game you do or don't want to use. For example, you can turn the circles beneath each character and monster on the screen on/off, see dice information during combat, adjust how bright the screen looks, and alter numerous different text options depending on how much feedback you want to see and read.

I really could go on and on about all of the different things I got to see and experience. The problem is, the single biggest thing I found out is that all of the times I got to see the game and talk about it with the guys from BioWare are no comparison to actually playing the game. "Immersive" isn't nearly descriptive enough. "Huge" doesn't adequately describe the scope of the game. I played for three hours and found that I hadn't even made a dent in the game yet. Play testers have been at it for 30-40 hours and are still somewhere in chapters 3 or 4. Certainly there are still issues that need to be addressed like bugs and balancing and so forth, but the game is almost ready and will require about 100 hours of your time.

I am in no way suggesting that Baldur's Gate will be perfect or even the greatest game, or even the greatest RPG, ever. However, the fact that it can even be thought of that way, at least by me, is a testament to its potential. I'm not sure I've ever come across a game that has paid greater attention to the little things like Baldur's Gate does. I can tell you that having played it for several hours only makes me want to play it more. In addition, having seen what they're accomplishing with Baldur's Gate makes me eager to see what else BioWare has in store for us in the future.

***

 

[Anthedon]

In addition, having seen what they're accomplishing with Baldur's Gate makes me eager to see what else BioWare has in store for us in the future.

I wonder what Pete Hines of 1998 would think of Bioware 2015 (or of Pete Hines 2015).

 

[Lilura]

lilura your website is aspie heaven.

Thanks, I've received mostly positive feedback and butthurt, which is always welcome.

 

[Kev Inkline]

I might even feel similarly about BG2 if I were playing it for the first time as an adult. For me, the atmosphere of BG1 will always be king. With all the mods I use, my version of BG2 is almost unrecognizable in terms of combat encounters and itemization. The writing in both games has also aged poorly (or I'm just not 15 anymore).

Threadnecroing a bit here:


Background: I played F1, F2, PST & Arcanum back in the day when they were first released, and enjoyed them immensely. Never got into BG 1& 2 world for some reason. Now, on the verge of midlife crisis I am trying to play BG2 & PoE side-by-side, if only to find out how much flak PoE has got is due to overinflated expectations stemming from unwarranted BG nostalgia.

So far when it comes to the overall atmosphere, what I have read and come to expect, is confirmed (please do note that I am only in the 2nd act in both of the games) - the world does seem more filled with life in BG2. However, to me companions are more interesting and likable in PoE.

With all this said, my question is: Is there reason to play BG1 at all? I have false started it couple of times, but never proceeded past the first assasination attempt, or whatever, the game strikes me very boring. I am willing to install whatever nudemod what would make it interesting, if that's even possible.

- I expect this has been asked many time before in these fora, but I am too lazy do a comprehensive search.

 

[Sodafish]

 

[Theldaran]

The BGs are like my favourite videogames. I play then since 1999 and 2001, respectively, but of course not non-stop. Curiously, I didn't get PST or Fallout back in the day, and I seem to remember the real hype was on the BGs, with the dawn of the Third Edition era that brought a lot of success to D&D and whatnot. D&D was hot for geeks in those days -even though PST is like the ultimate D&D.

BG1 had like the best immersion in those times, if you discount things like Diablo, and probably still holds up.

PoE is not a good descendant of BG, and when it tries to do so, it fails. They shouldn't have stuck to this role model closely. The combat is a lot more boring due to an inadequate system. The writing was close to bad but mostly inconsistent. Whereas BG had consistent feel and setting, and poor writing especially on character design and dialogue, due to it being aged, pretty Paleolithic. Today we enjoy different and more polished writing. As a result most characters in both BGs are hardly likeable.

Enviado desde mi Edison 3 mediante Tapatalk

 

[Eirinjas]

I love BG. Still my favorite rpg game. BGII was bigger and louder, but not necessarily better. Icewind Dale is my second favorite D&D game. I know some people hate it cuz "wah, it's a dungeon crawler", but it had brilliant pacing, an awesome story, and probably the best combat out of all the Infinity Engine games (Well, Icewind Dale II, maybe). I haven't played PoE yet. It's on the to-do list. Baldurs Gate is awesome, even better if you have the enhanced edition.

 

[ArchAngel]

With all this said, my question is: Is there reason to play BG1 at all? I have false started it couple of times, but never proceeded past the first assasination attempt, or whatever, the game strikes me very boring. I am willing to install whatever nudemod what would make it interesting, if that's even possible.

- I expect this has been asked many time before in these fora, but I am too lazy do a comprehensive search.

If I was you I would wait for BG1EE:Siege of Dragonspear expansion to be released. They said the improvements from that will go into Bg1EE as well. Then start a BG1EE and play that and expansion both. If you consider yourself a master of the IE games system and find most combats easy then also wait until SCS mod is made to work with BG1EE:SoD.

 

[Roobenator]

How shitty would my experience be if i made a no reroll character and later dual classed in bg2 if stats are there? Ive replayed bg1 and 2 about a combined 10 times and ive always minmaxedc never dual classing. Latest playthroughs have been lackluster as ive been way too op. Also, random alignment and class? Of course choosing from dual classable classes

 

[Lilura]

How shitty would my experience be if i made a no reroll character and later dual classed in bg2 if stats are there? Ive replayed bg1 and 2 about a combined 10 times and ive always minmaxedc never dual classing. Latest playthroughs have been lackluster as ive been way too op. Also, random alignment and class? Of course choosing from dual classable classes

That would depend on your stats. You need at least a score of 15 in the prime requisite stat of the class you're dualing from and at least a score of 17 in the prime requisite stat of the class you're dualing to.

Lets take Fighter/Druid as an example. You need at least a 15 in Strength and at least a 17 in both Wisdom & Charisma (Druids have two prime requisites).

You also need to make sure your Fighter is True Neutral, otherwise you can't dual-class to Druid.

 

[oldmanpaco]

How shitty would my experience be if i made a no reroll character and later dual classed in bg2 if stats are there? Ive replayed bg1 and 2 about a combined 10 times and ive always minmaxedc never dual classing. Latest playthroughs have been lackluster as ive been way too op. Also, random alignment and class? Of course choosing from dual classable classes

Probably rolling ranger and dualing to a cleric would be the easiest for you if you didn't want to re-roll. You get 3 wisdom points in BG1 so getting to requirements for the Cleric would not be too hard. Dual to cleric at lvl 9 or 12 and wield Flail of Ages and Crom Faeyr when you get your ranger class back. Plus you get all the Druid (Iron Skin, Insect Plague) and Cleric spells.

 

[ArchAngel]

How shitty would my experience be if i made a no reroll character and later dual classed in bg2 if stats are there? Ive replayed bg1 and 2 about a combined 10 times and ive always minmaxedc never dual classing. Latest playthroughs have been lackluster as ive been way too op. Also, random alignment and class? Of course choosing from dual classable classes

That would depend on your stats. You need at least a score of 15 in the prime requisite stat of the class you're dualing from and at least a score of 17 in the prime requisite stat of the class you're dualing to.

Lets take Fighter/Druid as an example. You need at least a 15 in Strength and at least a 17 in both Wisdom & Charisma (Druids have two prime requisites).

You also need to make sure your Fighter is True Neutral, otherwise you can't dual-class to Druid.

You only need 15 in stat of the class you are dualing into. That is why people dual Xzar into Cleric due to his 15 in Wisdom.