Shadowrun Shadowrun Returns Pre-Release Thread

[Akarnir]

Well it seems there aren't much room for improvement. This video was awesome.

A small nitpick : some combat visuals for aren't really intense enough. Or diverse enough. The animations and some effect not particularly Empowering. But I assume those will be improved in beta.

EDIT : Actually after watching more closely, it's only a few of them. Some are pretty good.

 

[Roderick]

Oh god. loving this

 

[Cromwell]

Not that big of a fan. When I think of turn based strategy, I think of Jagged Alliance 2 and X-Com 3. Those games had massive amounts of options and complexity at your disposal, and they felt visceral. This feels... like a game. It feels hollow just like the Omerta combat.

arent we a lucky bunch for sr not beeing a strategy game?

 

[Blaine]

Lookin' good. Still a damn shame it's based on 4th Edition SR.

 

[Cromwell]

Lookin' good. Still a damn shame it's based on 4th Edition SR.

is there a really great difference between 4 and 3? Im not up to date

 

[evdk]

Lookin' good. Still a damn shame it's based on 4th Edition SR.

It's not. It's based on them all and none at the same time. For example I do not remember any edition having cool downs for spells.

is there a really great difference between 4 and 3? Im not up to date

Different way of measuring successes, different chargen (point buy instead of the priorities), wireless Matrix.

 

[Blaine]

is there a really great difference between 4 and 3? Im not up to date

FanPro acquired the Shadowrun IP from FASA in the very early 2000s (maybe very late 1990s, can't recall). For years, FanPro reprinted FASA's old rulebooks, and that was fine. However, FanPro also oversaw the production of Shadowrun 4th Edition, and released it in 2005. I bought a copy of the core rules the week they became available.

They shat all over the franchise. The in-universe flavor text was bad, the copy-editing was unbelievable (missing punctuation and misspelled words on practically every page), even the physical book itself was done in an ugly green inking scheme and made of very cheap materials.

But that's not the worst part. The worst part is that they "updated" the setting's technology level in countless ways to reflect our modern era of cell phones and high-speed Internet. I feel very, VERY strongly that "updating" the setting in this way was a fucking travesty. There were other problems besides just the tech "update," but that was by far the most offensive thing to me personally.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Smartlucky people got the 4th edition 20th Anniversary book which is an updated version, with all the typo's fixed and the errata-corrections slipped in. Plus it has more - and better - art. Whether you hate the fact that it went wireless is alltogether different and the rules do allow you to scale the level of SIN/PAN-play from "very nearly SR 2nd ED" to "incredibly futuristic". As for the rules, it really solved many earlier issues and is, IMHO, faster and easier to play. Note, I never played 3rd edition that much, pretty much sticking with 2nd edition before switching to 4th.

Akarnir

I'm not sure I get what you mean. There are no magical +2 bullet-proof wizard hats or anything like that in SR. If you want to be a mage, you eschew all cyber/bio-tech as they lower your essence and your magic cannot be higher than your essence (rounded down). So anyone who is serious about relying primarily on spells/spirits will maintain essence on 6 to keep magic on 6 and that means zero cyber/bio stuff. That geas thing doesn't exist in 4th edition, IIRC, and that's a good thing. Everything else is just hamming it up - the flavour-text talks about TV-show wizards who play up the stereotypes from old D&D books etc while the actual street shamans and mages look just like you and me... mostly. And it makes sense, you don't want to advertise the fact that you're a fireball-hurling spell-slinger or the corp security team will focus on YOU.

As for the video:

 

[Blaine]

Smartlucky

There was no 20th Anniversary edition the first week of release, obviously. After reading (most) of that first print run, I was completely done with FanPro and ignored the franchise from that point forward, since I already had all the 3rd Edition books I'd ever need. Interesting to hear that they did manage to clean it up before it went out of print, though; I'd check it out, but I don't do tabletop these days, so there's little point in it.

I played 2nd and 3rd.

 

[skallagrim]

Wow, I ignored the kickstarter since I believed it was some kind of JRPG-inspired crap but this looks awesome. Preordering.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I'm furiously masturbating with everyone else here, but I did see one disappointing thing. Over on their preorder page they list "Berlin DLC" as a collector's edition extra, even though it was a stretch goal listed in the Kickstarter. http://harebrained-schemes.com/shadowrun/shadowrun-returns-pre-order/
https://s3.amazonaws.com/www.harebrained-schemes.com/kickstarter/funding_graphic.jpg

Seems sorta shitty that was listed as a stretch goal and then they're splitting it off and selling it as DLC, apparently.

 

[tuluse]

I think everyone who kickstarted gets it included.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I think everyone who kickstarted gets it included.

Certainly possible I guess. Preordering from their webpage is a bit different than Kickstarting I suppose. And they may have clarified that at some point but like I do with most Kickstarters I don't read 99% of their updates.

 

[Jaesun]

Seems sorta shitty that was listed as a stretch goal and then they're splitting it off and selling it as DLC, apparently.

IIRC they decided to make Seattle much larger than intended, and do the Berlin DCL later, and all backers get the DLC.

People who didn't back it, have to pay for it separably.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

AWESOME!!!

 

[Ulminati]

This looks extremely solid, at least if they get the balance right...

I dislike the low% chance for the summons to go crazy though. "Usually a nice option, rarely a total disaster" mechanics are kinda fraught. Maybe if you summon them from a ley line or something you can get them guaranteed safe for a few turns.

~10% chance per round over 4-5 rounds adds up, and spirits breaking loose is usually bad news in a major way.
Summoning wouldn't be summoning without the occasional turn 1 mishap. You are - quite literally - playing with fire when you conjure spirits in SR

 

[Cromwell]

is there a really great difference between 4 and 3? Im not up to date

But that's not the worst part. The worst part is that they "updated" the setting's technology level in countless ways to reflect our modern era of cell phones and high-speed Internet. I feel very, VERY strongly that "updating" the setting in this way was a fucking travesty. There were other problems besides just the tech "update," but that was by far the most offensive thing to me personally.

this wireless matrix and otaku shit? hated that.

 

[Roguey]

While Obsidian and inXile wave their hands about and talk about concepts and ideas, harebrained delivers motherfucking gameplay.

None of the games they're working on are anywhere close to release. This is supposed to be out in May/June (most likely June).

 

[Excidium]

is there a really great difference between 4 and 3? Im not up to date

But that's not the worst part. The worst part is that they "updated" the setting's technology level in countless ways to reflect our modern era of cell phones and high-speed Internet. I feel very, VERY strongly that "updating" the setting in this way was a fucking travesty. There were other problems besides just the tech "update," but that was by far the most offensive thing to me personally.

this wireless matrix and otaku shit? hated that.

Doesn't the 2050 setting book for 4E get rid of that?

 

[Cromwell]

is there a really great difference between 4 and 3? Im not up to date

But that's not the worst part. The worst part is that they "updated" the setting's technology level in countless ways to reflect our modern era of cell phones and high-speed Internet. I feel very, VERY strongly that "updating" the setting in this way was a fucking travesty. There were other problems besides just the tech "update," but that was by far the most offensive thing to me personally.

this wireless matrix and otaku shit? hated that.

Doesn't the 2050 setting book for 4E get rid of that?

im really not up ton date. dont have a group to play with, last news for me was the wireless matrix thing and the otakus.

 

[Blaine]

I'm not up-to-date either. I washed my hands of FanPro Shadowrun 4th and onward after the wireless matrix/otaku bullshit in 2005. I'd forgotten the exact details of how they "updated" the tech; Cromwell reminded me of some of it. It's been almost eight years.

All that said, Shadowrun Returns won't necessarily suffer from the "update". I'd still prefer to see the 1970s tan IBM-looking mechanical keyboards attached to circuit breaker boxes as cyberdecks, a wired matrix you physically jack into, and an absence of post-2000 trendy technophile douchery, but it's just a preference. It's a turn-based cyberpunk cRPG and it's looking good, and I'd be a massive cunt to prejudge it based on the first printing of FanPro's 4th Edition.

 

[Gozma]

This looks extremely solid, at least if they get the balance right...

I dislike the low% chance for the summons to go crazy though. "Usually a nice option, rarely a total disaster" mechanics are kinda fraught. Maybe if you summon them from a ley line or something you can get them guaranteed safe for a few turns.

~10% chance per round over 4-5 rounds adds up, and spirits breaking loose is usually bad news in a major way.
Summoning wouldn't be summoning without the occasional turn 1 mishap. You are - quite literally - playing with fire when you conjure spirits in SR

Yeah, but "dangerous random backfire" mechanics need to give you ways of managing the risk or it's just roulette... there need to be plan Bs and plan Cs or else people just avoid it/spam reload. Like in Dungeon Crawl one of the gods has a similar dangerous random backfire but you have the whole universe of Roguelike consumables and spells and other deep mechanics to make it so you have lots of ways to create plans B-Z (and it's still a leading cause of mid-lategame death, hah). I really can't think of any other place I've seen it handled at all well either.

 

[tuluse]

I don't think it will be a huge problem, 1) because the spirits didn't seem super powerful, and 2) they seem to fight everyone, so it shouldn't be just summoning an enemy combatant, but creating a 3rd party to deal with.

 

[Roguey]

You know how I love raining on parades.
http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/24991/map-hud#Comment_34727

will there be a city map to determine where to go? or possibly an objective marker in a hud?

We'll use an objective marker on your HUD and a compass pointer too.

Quest compass!

 

[evdk]

You know how I love raining on parades.
http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/24991/map-hud#Comment_34727

will there be a city map to determine where to go? or possibly an objective marker in a hud?

We'll use an objective marker on your HUD and a compass pointer too.

Quest compass!

This has already been shown in the video.