I want to enjoy thief, but I can't

[JarlFrank]

I prefer Thief 2, if only because the limitations of the Dark Engine aren't as obvious. For one, the Thief games don't do movement over weird geometry very well, and for another, mantling kinda sucks when you're trying to scale moving, curved or weirdly edged brushes (and this is even more noticeable after playing The Dark Mod and going back to Thief 1/2).

That being said, I still prefer T1/2 to most of the new-age stealth games--even Dishonored, which I liked a lot. Thief 1 and 2's atmosphere, story and maps more than make up for their shortcomings. Strangely, the map that disappointed me most from T1/Gold was Return to the Cathedral

Spoiler

thanks to Brother Murus' endless errands. Otherwise the mission started off fantastically.

Do you play fan missions? If not, you should.

 

[Siobhan]

Do you play fan missions? If not, you should.

That should be the general advise for all Thief games. I've never played any of them from start to finish, it's way too mind numbing. But just loading up a map for a few hours is great, no matter whether it's a level from the original games or a fan mission. The original games should've just dropped the linear progression enforced by the weird need for a story and instead given you a mission select screen with difficulty ratings, average playing time, and a few descriptive tags. Any game without long-term character progression should have that as an option.

 

[udm]

Do you play fan missions? If not, you should.

Not yet. On my bucket list for sure, starting with T2X.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Maybe this Thief 2 Gold mission would have shed some more light on these things.

The fourth T2G mission, which was to be set in necromancer controlled territory in the mountains, was to be an undead/horror mission featuring craggy cliffs dotted with haunted towers. This mission was sadly lost. There was also supposed to have been a Hammerite mission added to the mix, but from what we have here it looks like something changed along the way, some information is wrong, or whathaveyou. In general I wouldn't consider anything I've said here the official word on anything.

Edit: A little more on that Hammerite mission... The idea was that Garrett gets a Hammerite priest drunk in a bar and gets him to spill some info about Karras's past within the order, and he then has to go follow up on it by breaking into an old run down Hammerite church.

Just speaking for myself here... but I would also have merged these two missions together.

Have Garrett break into an old and abandoned Hammerite Church that's been sealed off because it's filled with Undead... and worse. (Imagine a mech-beast with a huge animal skull.) And who's to blame for that? Karras, who was taking his first steps on the path to 'greatness'.

 

[fantadomat]

The first thief have some...problems with the level design. A lot huge levels with not much to do in them,some of them are maze like. Try out the second game before going in the first.

 

[Excommunicator]

I play this game like a noob (I sneak around until I get caught then I panic and start killing everyone I see) and it is precisely the fact that it allows me to do this - or completely ghost - or do any number of things in between that make it the best stealth game and one of the best games ever made.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

The first thief have some...problems with the level design. A lot huge levels with not much to do in them,some of them are maze like. Try out the second game before going in the first.

What? That's terrible advice. The second game has less linear, bigger and more maze like levels

 

[fantadomat]

The first thief have some...problems with the level design. A lot huge levels with not much to do in them,some of them are maze like. Try out the second game before going in the first.

What? That's terrible advice. The second game has less linear, bigger and more maze like levels

The first level "Lord Bafford's Manor" was terrible,it was nonsensical and empty. Also there was some cavern level that was like a maze. Later on levels do become a lot better and logical. To be honest i haven't played the game recently,maybe my memory is exaggerating the horrors of the first level. I always felt that Thief 2 levels are more realistic and logical. I don't go in a room and feel that it is an alien bedroom wondering what kind of creature lives here.

 

[JarlFrank]

only confusing levels in first Thief are Thieves Guild and Mages Towers
also the Burrick caves in Bonehoard and the old quarter in Haunted Cathedral

 

[Darth Roxor]

only confusing levels in first Thief are Thieves Guild and Mages Towers

and the sword is what again

 

[JarlFrank]

only confusing levels in first Thief are Thieves Guild and Mages Towers

and the sword is what again

amazing

 

[McPlusle]

only confusing levels in first Thief are Thieves Guild

The Thieves' Guild had me so stumped I installed GoldToDark and started the game over again, this time in The Dark Project form. Nothing wrong with playing through the amazing first 3.5 (The remaining .5 being the tailing part of Assassins) missions again, though.

 

[unfairlight]

Truth be told I feel like you really weren't even meant to know or learn the objectives in Thief 1 and 2 without having a strategy guide or asking on a forum. A lot of them were really nonsensical and retarded or too hidden without enough info. In Thief 2 there was the mission Casing the Joint where one of the objectives was to get rid of ghosts in some super spooky library hidden in a mansion and to make them go away you had to collect some random fucking pieces of paper and open a door in the wall. I couldn't remember anything detailing this in the entire mission, so your only option was to randomly walk around and collect hidden pieces of paper in a small room with no information until they went away or just search TTLG. Jarl said that Mages Towers was supposed to be confusing, but I remember it being one of my favorite missions in the entire game and wasn't aggravating to play unlike a lot of the others.

 

[JarlFrank]

The remove ghosts objective in Casing the Joint was, afaik, optional.

 

[unfairlight]

I think it was required on the harder difficulties, or you had to do it to proceed with a primary objective. My memory is hazy since it's been so long. I gotta replay the games some time in the future.

 

[Carrion]

only confusing levels in first Thief are Thieves Guild and Mages Towers
also the Burrick caves in Bonehoard and the old quarter in Haunted Cathedral

I'd say Escape! fits this too, but the maze-like level layouts almost always serve a purpose. Thief loves to confuse you on purpose, pull the rug from under your feet and throw you out of your comfort zone, which is a huge part of its atmosphere. It really manages to convey the feeling of being lost or in over your head when a normal manor heist turns into a living nightmare, you try to find your way around using some ancient map full of weird symbols, or you suddenly find yourself in an area that isn't marked on your map at all. Especially Down in the Bonehoard and The Sword are some of the most memorable levels ever, and they'd lose a lot of their appeal if the layouts were more conventional.

There's one exception, though, and that is Thieves Guild, which is really tedious and feels like a below-average fan mission.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The remove ghosts objective in Casing the Joint was, afaik, optional.

dis, regardless of difficulty

 

[udm]

Only mission I really had difficulty with (to the point where I needed a walkthrough) was Mage Towers, right at the end when you have to get the air rune. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out how the location of the rune was determined, even after looking it up on Google/TTLG.

 

[McPlusle]

The more I play Thief the more I realize the kinds of levels I do and don't like. The Sword and Down in the Bonehoard were completely mindblowing missions that made proper use of their massive, labyrinthine structures by having distinct areas that are just as easy to get lost in as they are to create personal landmarks in. Haunted Cathedral and the sewer section of Thieves' Guild, however, are the opposite. They're huge and maze-like, which is cool, but the mazes contained within are too samey throughout. Haunted Cathedral was especially frustrating after finding out that, since there's really no "exit" objective, about 90% of this massive, confusing map exists as a means of spreading the loot as this as possible. I'm hoping this doesn't become a pattern with the mission designs, either for the rest of T1 or any of T2.

 

[Jarmaro]

Reading this thread makes obvious people dislike Thief 3. Why is that?

 

[catfood]

Reading this thread makes obvious people dislike Thief 3. Why is that?

Because it's not as good as the previous 2. It's not a bad game at all, it's just that the predecessors set a very high standard. The biggest problems with Thi3f have to do with the technological limitations of the fagbox. The levels were smaller, and not only that they were split in half due to the low processing power of the gaybox. Rope arrows were also removed, replaced with climbing gloves, which while cool, did not offer the same amount of versatility of the arrows. Garrett also forgot to swim apparently between the second and third games. Contact with water means instant death like he's now a vampire or something.

The developers did all they could with the tools they had available. I mean, the game looks good, it's got atmosphere, the story is captivating and the levels are pretty well designed considering the limitations they had to work with. Physics were now implemented, lighting was more dynamic and the AI noticed things like missing objects or opened doors. Not bad.

If Thi4f were as good as Thi3f, the community would have had no problems with it.

 

[Multidirectional]

Controls are also worse in Thief 3. Movement is a lot clunkier.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Reading this thread makes obvious people dislike Thief 3. Why is that?

i dont

thief 3 is p cool and a legit thief game

 

[Unkillable Cat]

and the AI noticed things like missing objects

Thief 1 & 2 AI can also do this, but for some strange reason it's never made to do so except in the "Undercover" OM in Thief 1/G.

 

[anvi]

Thief is bad, don't believe the hype! Ok to be honest, it is a good series and there are things that I really like about it. The use of light is brilliant, you can hide in shadows and step into the light of a flaming torch and they spot you. That shit was revolutionary at the time. It is also nice to have a first person action game that isn't just about sprinting around headshotting everyone with a gun. Also the atmosphere is fantastic, the level design is decent, etc.

But beyond that... it leaves so much to be desired. Bonking everyone on the head is kinda dumb, and standing 2 inches from a guard who can't spot you because you are in a dark corner of a room, is also stretching feasibility of it all. For me it all works pretty close to being great, but the combat itself lets it down. The main issue is that if you swing your stick of wood and miss the guard, you are done for. But it feels awkward and you have to get so close to land the hit, and if you get too close, you are also done for. It is so immersive except when it comes to actually smacking people and then it feels like you are riding a dog while trying to knock someone out with a drinking straw. In real life you could smack someone on the head easily.

One of the later games was a lot better. It had a bow and arrow to cap people but also there were water arrows that put the lights out that added a whole new dimension to the game. I think that was probably the peak of the series. It still wasn't perfect but it was a lot better. I respect the early versions for what they did, but they aren't great games in terms of actual mechanics and stuff, which is what really matters...