Arcanum setting makes no sense

[Cryomancer]

I have to agree its far from small, if not this game suffers from being WAY too long.

What? When I played Arcanum for the first time, my English was pure shit, and yet I ended my run in about 35 hours. A bit higher than the average, according to HLTB > https://howlongtobeat.com/game/557

That is not way too long; it is just a bit longer than other Troika games like ToEE and VtMB.

And in true Troika/Black Isle fashion, the last act of the game is linear, buggy and blatantly unfinished.

But still a better experience that most of the crap released in the last 10 years

Is not only Troika. Piranha Bytes, OwlCat, the end game being unfinished, linear and buggy is a tradition among RPGs. Even Baizuo's Gate 3 with a colossal budget had the second part of act 3 unplayable at launch.

The lore may specify that magic is rare and difficult but the in-game experience conflicts with that.

That depends where. In the middle of a metropolis? Yes, magic is rare. Among elves in forest, no, magic is not rare.

 

[Axioms]

The real problem is that the game was so small in scale and scope.

How so?
I always thought the game had just the right amount of content.

See but you are talking about exactly what I mean without realizing it. Yes for a CRPG the content level is appropriate but to represent the ostensible lore properly the game is too small.

 

[NecroLord]

Yes for a CRPG the content level is appropriate but to represent the ostensible lore properly the game is too small.

I agree with you on this.
Arcanum could've used some more locations.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

That depends where. In the middle of a metropolis? Yes, magic is rare. Among elves in forest, no, magic is not rare.

You know, I think a dichotomy between nature magic and technology could’ve made for stronger worldbuilding that couldn’t be so easily unraveled. The idea I have is that magic is ecofriendly, but technology is destructive due to the civilizations mining fossil fuels. When technology and magic interfere with each other, it’s due to technology poisoning nature and nature reviling technology. That is, magic is sentient and actively hates technology. The conflict arises because humans don’t want to live in harmony with nature anymore, using technology to advance their civilization at the expense of nature and magic.

 

[NecroLord]

The idea I have is that magic is ecofriendly,

Debatable I would say.
Is using your will to literally bend and break the laws of physics ecofriendly?

 

[Ryan muller]

What? When I played Arcanum for the first time, my English was pure shit, and yet I ended my run in about 35 hours. A bit higher than the average, according to HLTB >

I cant believe that a first playtrought would end in 35 hours.
I'm sorry but thats TOO fast for a blind playtrought of this game, faster than a Fallout 2 playtrought.

Specially not considering the time you need to get properly equipped to deal with BMC.

In replays it tends to be faster, but about the time i finish stillwater i tend to be exhausted.

Btw, let me ask you one thing, your character had high speech?

 

[Ryan muller]

The real problem is that the game was so small in scale and scope.

How so?
I always thought the game had just the right amount of content.

I have to agree its far from small, if not this game suffers from being WAY too long.

Arcanum is like 40-50 hours long at the most if you do anything. Unless you read at a 2nd grade level.

Saying I'm dumb for pointing out the fact that the game is too long, just to follow it by saying it's a 50-hour long game, is certainly a thing.

 

[Beans00]

The real problem is that the game was so small in scale and scope.

How so?
I always thought the game had just the right amount of content.

I have to agree its far from small, if not this game suffers from being WAY too long.

Arcanum is like 40-50 hours long at the most if you do anything. Unless you read at a 2nd grade level.

Saying I'm dumb for pointing out the fact that the game is too long, just to follow it by saying it's a 50-hour long game, is certainly a thing.

Look bowlcut, I know you started this thread for attention. You're getting it so good job on that. 30-50h is pretty standard for most rpgs back then.
I have a zoomer friend 8-9 years younger than me. Tacgnol has met him, and he beat arcanum in 33 hours, doing probably 80% of all quests.


So unless you read at a 2nd grade level its not a particularly long game.

 

[Ryan muller]

Look bowlcut, I know you started this thread for attention. You're getting it so good job on that. 30-50h is pretty standard for most rpgs back then.
I have a zoomer friend 8-9 years younger than me. @Tacgnol has met him, and he beat arcanum in 33 hours, doing probably 80% of all quests.

30-40 hour mark was certainly average for the time.

Not so much 50+. Regardless its way too long for a game as slow paced as arcanum. Most of the current playtime will be spent collecting junk to craft X or Y thingy or grinding quests to finish BMC.

And your friend probably either played as a max speech char and skipped a good portion of the main quest content, used a walktrought or outright lied to you.

 

[Beans00]

30-40 hour mark was certainly average for the time.

Not so much 50+. Regardless its way too long for a game as slow paced as arcanum. Most of the current playtime will be spent collecting junk to craft X or Y thingy or grinding quests to finish BMC.

And your friend probably either played as a max speech char and skipped a good portion of the main quest content, used a walktrought or outright lied to you.

I've seen his steam hours, and he showed me(and tacgnol) his save game he would never lie to me.

Off the top of my head Arcanum is shorter than bg1/2, all the elder scrolls games, IWD 2, roughly the same length as fallout 2. It's also not a slow game at all compared to the geriatric walking speeds of the infinity engine games. JarlFrank agrees with me that you're likely a bowlcut.

 

[Ryan muller]

I've seen his steam hours, and he showed me(and tacgnol) his save game he would never lie to me.

I havent said it has to be a lie, just that aside from that the only alternatives would be high speech or a walktrought

Are you saying he had neither?

 

[JarlFrank]

I played Arcanum for the first time when I was 12 and not even fluent in English yet. I had no manual.
Yet it didn't feel like a super long game at the time. Of course, it's over 20 years ago since I first played it so my memory is hazy, but it definitely wasn't a huge game hours-wise compared to, say, BG2 which I played around the same time. Arcanum has a very fast playing pace. It does have plenty of content but there's little filler (beyond the shitty combat encounters).

 

[Ryan muller]

It does have plenty of content but there's little filler (beyond the shitty combat encounters).

The pacing isnt very fast, mostly because it takes a lot of time to prepare to BMC with its level 30 golems, so you can't go at your own pacing

I never understood how people powered throught it as tech chars, i reached the dungeon at L8 my first time and was demolished, then i managed to spent my time doing every quest i had in Tarant, Shrouded hills, Black root, dernholm, Ashbury and my char was still L 17 or so.

I still remember that i stole the mechanized armor from the guy in ashbury to give me a little power boost (now i do the same in virtually every playtrought) and it still wasnt enough, so i spent 3-4 hours grinding in the sewers to have enough levels to beat BMC.

I recall that i honestly thought i had progressed a lot in the story at that point, but i had not.

Funny thing is that after BMC everything is piss easy and quite low level. But the massive dungeons that are a bunch of time wasters kept showing up, so it became stale, specially so since it took so long to grind for BMC that before i managed to do it i had already end game equipment. (Yes, i never changed equipment for the rest of the game)

 

[JarlFrank]

I played Arcanum without a manual, not even understanding every word of dialog (was still learning English at school), but the stone golems in the Black Mountain Mines were doable.
Played a melee character, and I remember wrecking my sword a couple of times so I had to bring a few backups, but that was about it. BMC is not an easy dungeon at the point you enter it, but you can get through it with perseverance.

 

[Ryan muller]

I played Arcanum without a manual, not even understanding every word of dialog (was still learning English at school), but the stone golems in the Black Mountain Mines were doable.
Played a melee character, and I remember wrecking my sword a couple of times so I had to bring a few backups, but that was about it. BMC is not an easy dungeon at the point you enter it, but you can get through it with perseverance.

Lot of perseverance, i salute you for that.

In my OG playtrought i couldnt do much because i missed the dog, even with him in replays now, i still can't go throught just by blasting my way. Specially due to how strong they are and how MUCH of them there are.

Unless i'm doing a mage playtrought ofc.

But even then, it was clearly not a dungeon designed to be challenged that early, which doesnt make much sense considering that its quite early in the storyline.

 

[Ryan muller]

The "i can only grind until i'm able to beat them" havent changed tho

And i wouldn't use my first playtrought as any metric regardless, because i fucked up a lot (Virgil died, I got the Orc riot Rep and ended up killing bates, Was hated in isle of despair,etc...)

 

[NecroLord]

I played Arcanum without a manual, not even understanding every word of dialog (was still learning English at school), but the stone golems in the Black Mountain Mines were doable.
Played a melee character, and I remember wrecking my sword a couple of times so I had to bring a few backups, but that was about it. BMC is not an easy dungeon at the point you enter it, but you can get through it with perseverance.

Those Fire Elementals and Fire Golems...
Not only do you damage your weapon while hitting them, but ALSO your armor and you also take damage!

Fuck.

 

[Ryan muller]

I played Arcanum without a manual, not even understanding every word of dialog (was still learning English at school), but the stone golems in the Black Mountain Mines were doable.
Played a melee character, and I remember wrecking my sword a couple of times so I had to bring a few backups, but that was about it. BMC is not an easy dungeon at the point you enter it, but you can get through it with perseverance.

Those Fire Elementals and Fire Golems...
Not only do you damage your weapon while hitting them, but ALSO your armor and you also take damage!

Fuck.

Its funny seeing the dog loosing his health pool while chewing all of them to death tho.

 

[jackofshadows]

You've made me to replay it, fuckers. Good job.

^ the dialogue refers to the Vendi-submarine.

 

[Ryan muller]

You've made me to replay it, fuckers. Good job.

^ the dialogue refers to the Vendi-submarine.

I was expecting you to show up in this thread. Quite late tho, but good luck

Magick char this time, huh?

 

[Cryomancer]

I will re play Arcanum too. All of this criticism towards Arcanum made me want to re play it.

 

[jackofshadows]

Magick char this time, huh?

Nah, the my favorite backstabber guy. The gear is of little relevancy with such a build hence the robe etc.

I'm not entirely disagree with you by the way, the whole magic vs tech thing is way too convoluted and what's more important, it could be much better translated in the actual game world, its rules and its implications as placed loot, locations etc etc. It's a pity though you aren't able to suspend your disbelief enough to dig in. Maybe you was too old when you first played the thing, maybe it's something else. But as been pointed out already, this game is no fantasy simulator so you gotta give some (a lot of) slack to the designers.

 

[Cohesion]

P

30-40 hour mark was certainly average for the time.

Not so much 50+. Regardless its way too long for a game as slow paced as arcanum. Most of the current playtime will be spent collecting junk to craft X or Y thingy or grinding quests to finish BMC.

And your friend probably either played as a max speech char and skipped a good portion of the main quest content, used a walktrought or outright lied to you.

I've seen his steam hours, and he showed me(and tacgnol) his save game he would never lie to me.

Off the top of my head Arcanum is shorter than bg1/2, all the elder scrolls games, IWD 2, roughly the same length as fallout 2. It's also not a slow game at all compared to the geriatric walking speeds of the infinity engine games. JarlFrank agrees with me that you're likely a bowlcut.

Dude what's with you and "appeal to authority"? Why do we need this extra info about longcats and jarls?

 

[Cryomancer]

I know that I will be hated by it, but one thing which I really wish that FL1/2 and Arcanum had is... Vehicles. Imagine how cool would be if we could enter a steampunk version of a APC. Pick generated by AI bellow :

Would disintegrate work against such heavy vehicles?

 

[Beans00]

I've seen his steam hours, and he showed me(and tacgnol) his save game he would never lie to me.

Off the top of my head Arcanum is shorter than bg1/2, all the elder scrolls games, IWD 2, roughly the same length as fallout 2. It's also not a slow game at all compared to the geriatric walking speeds of the infinity engine games. JarlFrank agrees with me that you're likely a bowlcut.

Dude what's with you and "appeal to authority"? Why do we need this extra info about longcats and jarls?

JarlFrank and Tacgnol are my friends, and we occasionally have debates about Rpg's and other games.