What do you think about AoD?

[hiver]

ahem... allow me...

knotanalt is ignoring me of course, but i will write this for others reading this thread primarily.

Otherwise you might even think he is right...or something equally ludicrous...

Well that's complete bullshit, didn't read too carefully. And in the hobbit they found an entire mountain of gold. A diamond as big as a hobbit's head. A suit of mithril worth more than a small kingdom.

This is what happens when a retard tries to read Tolkien.

The mound of gold that never belong to any of them, was hoarded by the dragon Smaug. It was never given to them at all. Bilbo didnt take that diamond with him but gave it away and it was left it in the hands of dead Torin.
He took the suit of expertly crafted armor given to him as a reward for his deeds, that he never wore himself and gave it to a museum in Shire, where it was kept for years. And some small measure of gold.

Let's see there's also the troll loot.

Two finely made swords. Not magical at all.

There's aragorn's sword which figured pretty prominently.

Broken most of the time and never really used to win the war directly by slaying any important figure at all.
If anything, its most important use was to make Sauron believe a heir to Elendil is alive and real and so diverted his whole war machine in Aragorn direction, which caused the siege of Gondor, creating a window of opportunity for Frodo sneaking in.

There's tales about all kinds of artifacts.

Tales? No shit...there was some tales... imagine that. Artifacts of what?
I suppose it would be more realistic if there wasnt any objects at all from all that history that was a very important part of the story.

One of the biggest moments was Galadriel handing out phat loots to a dwarf of all people, but everyone got lots of them.

Everyone got one item without any powers and some food. Cloaks given to Hobits had only a nifty ability to mimic colors of the world around them.
Yes, to a Dwarf.
"- when given the opportunity to ask for whatever he wished, he responded that being able to see her and hear her gentle words was a gift enough. When pressured further, he admits that he desires a single strand of her golden hair, so that he might treasure it and preserve it as an heirloom of his house, but that he does not ask for such a gift."

Half the plot points revolve around some fat loot of some kind,

You are an imbecile.

and the fat loot is more powerful than any bullshit in any game I've played.

and a uneducated, shallow, stupid cunt.

IT'S A STORY ABOUT THE ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL AND IT'S NOT ABOUT LOOT AT ALL? It's like loot saga.

The Ring that no one car really wear and use. The Ring that subverts minds, destroys souls and turns anyone trying into a twisted corrupted version of themselves?
The Ring that makes any weaker soul take it straight to his master, one way or another, while stronger become new Dark Lords - which is the reason why all more powerful beings on side of humans and Elves feared even to touch it?

No, Frodo didnt really know how to use it, and even wearing it a little bit distorted him little by little.
His (and Bilbos) seemingly long and unusual resistance to it is a long topic itself.
It touches metaphysical, philosophical and some deeper religious concepts - and they had a sort of... outside help, too.
That still couldnt protect them from it... only maybe gave them a bit more time.

So like I said, complete bullshit (pardon my freedom).

yeah, thats what you really are. A posturing heap of bullshit.

Next you'll say there wasn't any focus on combat, and no "filler" combat. Every fight was a tactically interesting experience involving important boss monsters.

yeah... to a complete imbecile.

So like someone else said maybe RPGs just aren't your thing.

An assessment made by a posturing dumbfuck.

 

[Infinitron]

20 Eyes
Be that as it may, you're still acting like every classic RPG is a Diablo-style loot treadmill.

 

[FeelTheRads]

You're completely ignoring my point to go on your little nerd-rage fueled rant.

What's the point, by the way? I thought it was a joke, but you keep insisting on it. LotR is a book. A game is a game. What the hell does what happens in a book have to do with what happens in a game?

but don't promote grinding.

Having the option to grind doesn't actually promote grinding either. Just like Infinitron says, these AoD-fags somehow equate every other RPG besides AoD with Diablo. Suddenly every RPG released so far is shit and AoD will be the best RPG since Dragon Age.

 

[20 Eyes]

20 Eyes
Be that as it may, you're still acting like every classic RPG is a Diablo-style loot treadmill.

Sometimes I speak in extremes, but this wasn't I was trying to imply.

You're completely ignoring my point to go on your little nerd-rage fueled rant.

What's the point, by the way? I thought it was a joke, but you keep insisting on it. LotR is a book. A game is a game. What the hell does what happens in a book have to do with what happens in a game?

My point was pretty clear if you read the whole series of posts, dude just baited me into ranting about LotR:

But I'm not talking about Tolkien and I wouldn't consider myself especially versed in his work, my gripe is with this formula being used in RPGs:

Win battle - Loot room - YAY! Sword of Fire + 1!
Win battle - Loot room - YAY! Sword of Fire + 1.2!
and so on...

If you like it, more power to you. I don't. I think it's stale and boring.

 

[Mangoose]

Does any mod want to Retardo this shit?

 

[l3loodAngel]

I guess at least part of what you're talking about is this modern vogue for would-be coherent fantasy worlds over genuinely diverse fantasy worlds. The excesses and anything-goes policy of D & D allows Athklata to be this ridiculous city that contains vampires and liches and beholders and magic portals and magic circuses, all crammed in together and unnoticed by any of the inhabitants other than the player - it's deeply silly, but it has a light touch and it's varied and unpredictable enough to be engaging.

Not to mention that the whole design of encounters is retarded. Liches in taverns, demilich in an ordinary house surrounded by minotaurs, a shitload of spiders in graveyard and goblins in temple district, a party in a house with minotaur comrades that you can kill for no reason and get celestial fury.
Even when I was twelve I wanted to cry, because nothing you do changes anything.Kill the cult, kill the bandits, kill the vampires, asylum killed by Irencus, kill the harpers, become a lord after you killed the trolls - No affect. [perception][intelligence] Killing is the answer!
This raises few questions. Why Athklata is mentioned as a positive example at all? What city would be a good example for the given setting?
I would say New Reno in FO2. Because as a player you have a lot of things to do in city and you don't have to fight retarded monsters. You can box, kill for gangs, you can cheat to get info, lie and you don't have to fight same bandit fucks all over again. The only thing the city is missing is that pure non-combat character can't accomplish much. So you can't annihilate factions by plotting and etc.

 

[Infinitron]

I guess at least part of what you're talking about is this modern vogue for would-be coherent fantasy worlds over genuinely diverse fantasy worlds. The excesses and anything-goes policy of D & D allows Athklata to be this ridiculous city that contains vampires and liches and beholders and magic portals and magic circuses, all crammed in together and unnoticed by any of the inhabitants other than the player - it's deeply silly, but it has a light touch and it's varied and unpredictable enough to be engaging.

Not to mention that the whole design of encounters is retarded. Liches in taverns, demilich in an ordinary house surrounded by minotaurs, a shitload of spiders in graveyard and goblins in temple district, a party in a house with minotaur comrades that you can kill for no reason and get celestial fury.
Even when I was twelve I wanted to cry, because nothing you do changes anything.Kill the cult, kill the bandits, kill the vampires, asylum killed by Irencus, kill the harpers, become a lord after you killed the trolls - No affect. [perception][intelligence] Killing is the answer!
This raises few questions. Why Athklata is mentioned as a positive example at all? What city would be a good example for the given setting?
I would say New Reno in FO2. Because as a player you have a lot of things to do in city and you don't have to fight retarded monsters. You can box, kill for gangs, you can cheat to get info, lie and you don't have to fight same bandit fucks all over again. The only thing the city is missing is that pure non-combat character can't accomplish much. So you can't annihilate factions by plotting and etc.

I don't think you realize this, but grotsnik was describing Athkatla positively, not negatively.

 

[l3loodAngel]

I don't think you realize this, but grotsnik was describing Athkatla positively, not negatively.

I did understand that. Is there anything conflicting what he wrote in my post? It is ridiculous city with silly encounters and unresponsive to players actions. If you mean emotional engagement - I cannot comment on in, because I didn't feel it.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't think you realize this, but grotsnik was describing Athkatla positively, not negatively.

I did understand that. Is there anything conflicting what he wrote in my post? It is ridiculous city with silly encounters and unresponsive to players actions.

The difference between Athkatla and New Reno is that an extremely high percentage of BG2's gameplay takes place in Athkatla, while New Reno is just one area out of many.

An entire game taking place in New Reno, with New Reno's gameplay, would not be very fun. Now consider that AOD's cities are basically New Reno taken to its extreme conclusion.

 

[MetalCraze]

Killing and looting are an important RPG aspect and nobody's arguing that. However, there is a huge difference between getting a well deserved reward or fighting a battle that means something and killing trash mobs that are there for no reason at all.

Considering that you are getting teleported past the mobs when you have high enough diplomacy skills and into the mobs when you don't - by trash mobs that mean nothing you mean AoD design?

 

[toro]

AOD will fail not because is not a good game, but because is clunky and messy.

VD from all people should know how important is to sell a pretty functional product. AOD is neither functional or pretty.

I understand that there are financial limitations and many other problems, but honestly: Why should I love a retarded child which is not even mine?

I will support the game nevertheless.

 

[Weierstraß]

Good for what it is.

It's basically a what a Bioware game would be if they were actually good. It's as good as it can be, but held back by the form.

 

[l3loodAngel]

I don't think you realize this, but grotsnik was describing Athkatla positively, not negatively.

I did understand that. Is there anything conflicting what he wrote in my post? It is ridiculous city with silly encounters and unresponsive to players actions.

The difference between Athkatla and New Reno is that an extremely high percentage of BG2's gameplay takes place in Athkatla, while New Reno is just one area out of many.
An entire game taking place in New Reno, with New Reno's gameplay, would not be very fun. Now consider that AOD's cities are basically New Reno taken to its extreme conclusion.

That's entirely your opinion. In Athkatla you roleplay a pest control specialist, that exterminates all vermin in the city for loot... While in New Reno it's about decisions, choosing sides etc. In Athkatla opening a door I kept thinking what non-sensual monster the game is going throw at me for no reason while in New Reno I kept thinking why all the game content is not like that. VD opened preoders to make monster models, maybe you can convince him to throw some into random houses.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't think you realize this, but grotsnik was describing Athkatla positively, not negatively.

I did understand that. Is there anything conflicting what he wrote in my post? It is ridiculous city with silly encounters and unresponsive to players actions.

The difference between Athkatla and New Reno is that an extremely high percentage of BG2's gameplay takes place in Athkatla, while New Reno is just one area out of many.
An entire game taking place in New Reno, with New Reno's gameplay, would not be very fun. Now consider that AOD's cities are basically New Reno taken to its extreme conclusion.

That's entirely your opinion. In Athkatla you roleplay a pest control specialist, that exterminates all vermin in the city for loot... While in New Reno it's about decisions, choosing sides etc. In Athkatla opening a door I kept thinking what non-sensual monster the game is going throw at me for no reason while in New Reno I kept thinking why all the game content is not like that. VD opened preoders to make monster models, maybe you can convince him to throw some into random houses.

Well then, I guess you are AOD's intended audience. The grimdark urban intrigue simulator crowd.

 

[Roguey]

a party in a house with minotaur comrades that you can kill for no reason and get celestial fury.

This one makes sense, that's a group of slavers that you decided to barge in on. I'm pretty sure there's literature or a character somewhere telling you that's what they are.

 

[FeelTheRads]

non-sensual monster

I remember Bodhi was quite sensual.

 

[Raghar]

The difference between Athkatla and New Reno is that an extremely high percentage of BG2's gameplay takes place in Athkatla, while New Reno is just one area out of many.

If that big city where you appeared at the beginning is called like that, then the complains about it are quite valid. It had one hard encounter after another, nearly no content, and the trouble was even these encounters which shouldn't end with combat, ended in combat as if the encountered side was retarded. Why would someone attack you when he didn't have any interest in attacking you?

It looked like few additional people added enounters into the city where they were out of context, and didn't worked well with story, doesn't matter if it was quality one, or some another too flashy props placed in game because developers though a game without big flashy things will be ignored.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

The game's a mish-mash of confused design, it feels like it doesn't know what it wants to be...which isn't surprising given how long it's taken to make.

I hope it does well enough for you so you get a second attempt though.

 

[Raghar]

This is the second attempt. Don't encourage him to scrap it and do a third attempt. Jeff Vogel at least releases his games before he's doing remake.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

This is the second attempt. Don't encourage him to scrap it and do a third attempt. Jeff Vogel at least releases his games before he's doing remake.

By second attempt i mean an all new game/sequel. They need to stop fucking about and just get this released...too much faffing about and fiddling is why this game is the hodpe podge it is.

 

[visions]

It had one hard encounter after another, nearly no content

Hard encounters aren't content?

 

[Infinitron]

It had one hard encounter after another, nearly no content

Hard encounters aren't content?

Another fan of the Urban Intrigue Simulator (UIS) genre.

 

[Mangoose]

Here's a different way of looking at the teleportation question:

What are the negatives of giving teleportation an option?

 

[Excidium]

People will just find another thing to bitch about and it's not worth waiting another thursday while they polish the no-teleport option.

 

[Raghar]

It had one hard encounter after another, nearly no content

Hard encounters aren't content?

Did you ever played PnP RPGs? Let's give you a few simple examples.

"This mirror would create your evil twins which would have the same powers as you and would be under my control." The result n.1 "Don't hurt me. I dislike pain. I'd do anything..." The result n. 2 "I oppose violence." Both girls stared at the man. The man screamed: "Who are you? Monsters." One girl had talent and learned black magic because of her hysterical fear of her sister The second girl learned magic from her birth, she was messed in her head because of her past, but she continued study. Both girls were far better mages than the man. The one of few things they had in common was massive violence.

Technically it wasn't combat encounter. The man's tactic failed spectacularly, and both other participants were too tough to have any problems with waltzing over that men. If it was BGII the mirror would crate exact copies with the same personality, and participants would need to use several potions to have edge against theirs twins and man who has the mirror.

In real RPG you often need to find clues about stuff, because searching 20000x20000 km of area is unfeasible. Then people could lie, or be mistaken, or records could be destroyed, you need to get into restricted areas possibly even legally. And you might like to avoid excessive killing because of situation like: "It was bounty hunter group n. 50. Boom. That was group n. 51. It doesn't look like they would be discouraged by fate of these previous groups."

When a RPG has only hard combat encounters, it kills suspension of disbelief. In fact look at FF X-2. Famous words:

That dune wasn't here few years ago.

I wouldn't call it a combat encounter.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Well, it's more and more obvious that many people here who whine about Bioware don't whine because their games sucks. They'd totally be OK with them if for example they were written by Avellone and not Gaider. Also, maybe if the "C&C" wasn't "you don't get to see this room, because you chose this dialog option" but "you don't get to see these two other rooms, because you chose this dialog option".

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Why do these people get lost and come to RPG web site and tell me I am stupid person?

Why do you sound like a Russian struggling to speak English?

, most likely