Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader - turn-based Warhammer 40k RPG from Owlcat Games - now with Void Shadows DLC

[Yosharian]

I don't think there's even a fig of malice in Owlcat's design. I think at this point the deal you make when buying an Owlcat game is blatantly clear:

You get: insane scope from a team with way too few resources to handle it

You pay: with broken shit and unfinished chapters

I still don't think Rogue Trader can be salvaged completely.

I think this is the case with at least Wrath at well. There are still tons of things that don't work properly and so much inane shit you have to get through like the heroes minigame and the puzzles being copy-pasted version of the same core puzzle ad nauseam etc.

The megadungeon is the definition of scope > substance. It's the biggest dungeon in the game by far and holds nothing of value except the boss fight.

Yeah malice is too much, it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew

 

[Grunker]

it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew

I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it - they just do it anyway because they would rather sacrifice quality for scope.

 

[Yosharian]

Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works

 

[Yosharian]

it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew

I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it - they just do it anyway because they would rather sacrifice quality for scope.

That's fair I suppose

What pisses me off is the endless half-arsed minigames every time

 

[Camel]

There's malice in how Rogue Trader is built: Chapter 1/2 are decent and relied on the free work given by paying beta testers (to the point that the game at release still had the inbuilt bug report tool!) everything else was half-assed.

Incompetency, I can forgive. Difficulties, I can understand. Malice, however, is difficult to justify.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

 

[AshenNedra]

We're planning to prepare an article with all the big changes that will be included in the 1.1.2 big patch. But this will be closer to the patch itself

Hi, is there a manual (complete) somewhere that I could read ?

I tried the character creation, but, knowing nothing about the rules, could not get past it.

Following builds found on the net in Pathfinder kind of ruined the experience for me. I don't want to repeat the same mistake.

Many thanks in advance.

Hey! There are tooltips in the game itself, a small guide on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvfbRJvfGkQ&t=11s&ab_channel=OwlcatGames and a lot of build guide videos as well. Try choosing your style and google for the build, most probably you'll find something on it!

So, in others words , no?

Explain to me then what you mean, please. Every characteristic, class, and skill has a description in the game. The D100 mechanics are also described in the in-game encyclopedia. Quite a lot of things are described there by the way.

If you mean complete builds - no, there is no such thing in the game, it's left for the player.

A physical or a .pdf file that would constitute an old school manual.

That I could, you know, read.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it

They just need to keep try to chew it. One day they might break their jaw or finally chew it. They just need keep bang their head against a wall until it breaks.

 

[Harthwain]

Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works

Depends. Some games do have manuals and some developer diaries can be considered documentation (depending on how in-depth they are). But it is true this became a rare exception from the norm.

 

[Grunker]

it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew

I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it - they just do it anyway because they would rather sacrifice quality for scope.

That's fair I suppose

What pisses me off is the endless half-arsed minigames every time

That's the only thing that gets an angry response from me as well. The scope of their games would still be *massive* without them, and they always suck, so why not dedicate those resources to quality control.

 

[Grunker]

Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works

Depends. Some games do have manuals and some developer diaries can be considered documentation (depending on how in-depth they are). But it is true this became a rare exception from the norm.

Every single RPG should have KotC's hyperlink system. I cannot be convinced otherwise.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works

Depends. Some games do have manuals and some developer diaries can be considered documentation (depending on how in-depth they are). But it is true this became a rare exception from the norm.

Every single RPG should have KotC's hyperlink system. I cannot be convinced otherwise.

KoTC or ToEE?

 

[Grunker]

Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works

Depends. Some games do have manuals and some developer diaries can be considered documentation (depending on how in-depth they are). But it is true this became a rare exception from the norm.

Every single RPG should have KotC's hyperlink system. I cannot be convinced otherwise.

KoTC or ToEE?

KotC. In the first game you can click on any mechanics-related text and it takes you to a window with an exact description of that mechanic. The entire game's text is basically a hyperlinked wikipedia of documentation, and it is totally unintrusive. Perfection as far as documentation goes, in my opinion.

 

[ArchAngel]

it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew

I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it - they just do it anyway because they would rather sacrifice quality for scope.

That's fair I suppose

What pisses me off is the endless half-arsed minigames every time

That's the only thing that gets an angry response from me as well. The scope of their games would still be *massive* without them, and they always suck, so why not dedicate those resources to quality control.

RT one does not suck for once, at least the space combat part. It is just average. Even the colony building stuff is just average instead of bad to terrible how it was in previous two games (at least until they patched them).

 

[Owlcat_Eyler]

We're planning to prepare an article with all the big changes that will be included in the 1.1.2 big patch. But this will be closer to the patch itself

Hi, is there a manual (complete) somewhere that I could read ?

I tried the character creation, but, knowing nothing about the rules, could not get past it.

Following builds found on the net in Pathfinder kind of ruined the experience for me. I don't want to repeat the same mistake.

Many thanks in advance.

Hey! There are tooltips in the game itself, a small guide on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvfbRJvfGkQ&t=11s&ab_channel=OwlcatGames and a lot of build guide videos as well. Try choosing your style and google for the build, most probably you'll find something on it!

So, in others words , no?

Explain to me then what you mean, please. Every characteristic, class, and skill has a description in the game. The D100 mechanics are also described in the in-game encyclopedia. Quite a lot of things are described there by the way.

If you mean complete builds - no, there is no such thing in the game, it's left for the player.

A physical or a .pdf file that would constitute an old school manual.

That I could, you know, read.

Got it. Uhm.. No, I don't think we have one, unfortunately

 

[Alienman]

Manuals and documentation seem to have gone the way of the dodo, these days you either look on the wiki or you rely on speaking to other players on the game's Discord to find out how the game works

Or you get 2 hour tutorials to suffer through.

 

[notpl]

it's as you say they just consistently bite off more than they can chew

I suppose it is "malice" (rather, it is intent) in the sense that at this point the obviously know that they can't chew it - they just do it anyway because they would rather sacrifice quality for scope.

I resent this description because Rogue Trader did not have an especially innovative or ambitious scope. It is just a totally bog-standard crpg that they released half-finished.

 

[Fedora Master]

It's 2024 and game devs still think of documentation as something optional. Insane to me that this is the case with especially RPGs specifically but Owlcat is definitely part of the majority when they opt out of it.

They'd first need to understand their own creation.

 

[Dayyālu]

I don't think there's even a fig of malice in Owlcat's design.

People make good points. Yet, I've played my good share of games that fell apart thanks to publisher pressure and shit. Hell, Beloved Codex Classics have crappy endgame levels and cut content too, terrible combat and unsatisfactory plotlines.

The problem with Rogue Trader is that .... well, first point: using paying customers as beta testers is objectionable. We all know that gamers are cattle and they proudly pay a premium for being bug testers, and hell I did so too because I paid for this shit at release and had to install a freaking third party cheat engine to simply finish the game, but I'd love to have developers that do not require their customers to be guinea pigs because they can't be arsed to do playtesting. "They did it for every Pathfinder game too!" this is the second point.

It's the third time they do this shit. First time, good. Second time, understandable. Third time, it's even worse than the first two times. Releasing broken, unfinished products and then sloooowly fixing shit is another cancer typical of modern development. Someone at Owlcat finds this acceptable, or even a "proper market strategy". After all, gamers are cattle that will buy your product.

Furthermore, Rogue Trader is insanely frontloaded. Everything that works and was tested is in Chapter 1/2. I find this malicious, because of course people aren't going to refund a game that manages to keep basic quality for a while before nosediving hard. And Rogue Trader nosedives harder that Wrath. Sure, gamers are cattle and they won't even bother going past Chapter 2.

The fourth point is fuzzier and more personal: there's an ungodly amount of Warhammer shovelware. Streum On Studio built a career on crappy games that with all their massive problems still try their best to be good Warhammer experience. When Rogue Trader gives up, it completely gives up. I felt like the game had no respect for the player, for my time and for my efforts, and everything was a cobbled-together mess built just because they could slap a Chapter 3-4-5 label on it, call it done, and distribute it to the cattle. From the smallest things (the Rogue Trader capital levels swap between damaged models and undamaged models with the shittiest justifications) from the biggest (entire minigames like Colony Management being essentially fake) it felt like they gave up, wrote some perfunctory crap because they had to, and dumped it. There's malice in being so uncaring of your product and your playerbase.

And yes, I'm still incredibly salty about it six months after finishing this game. But hell, I've been on the Codex for 10+ years, if I didn't hold grudges for shitty games where would I be?

 

[Average Manatee]

Death Cult and Genestealers, me likey.

I'd like to like this, then I remembered I paid for an unfinished, broken product done by borderline scammers that can't even design a functional combat/character system.

If only there was previous experience to clearly and unmistakably inform you that buying an Owlcat game before at least two years have passed is a completely retarded endeavor.

Hell I bought Wrath after one and a half years when the Enhanced edition came and it was still too early!

So did the two year timer start upon release or will it be starting with the Rogue Trader Enhanced Edition?

 

[Tyranicon]

So when the DLC comes out, I can finally play the game I bought last year?

Informative.

 

[Donald Gordon Lord]

Wanting to throw everything in is admirable, but completely fubars the story.

What was even the point of Ch 3 and the Delf/Eldar stuff if the endgame has you fighting Necron? Just have the RT go further into the outer reaches exploring/looking for cult and wake them up, there’s Ch 3, the rest of the game can go as normal, Yrliet doesn’t act like a pants on head retard, everything good.

Ch 3 just feels like they made it and didn’t want to waste the assets, so they shoehorned it in, and it sucks big dong.

 

[Axel_am]

Wanting to throw everything in is admirable, but completely fubars the story.

I'd say this goes for every Owlcat game so far.

 

[Togukawa]

Ch 3 just feels like they made it and didn’t want to waste the assets, so they shoehorned it in, and it sucks big dong.

Agreed. It wasn't fun, it completely broke the pacing of the story, and the game never really recovers afterwards.

It's what keeps me from replaying, the thought that I have to suffer through "that part" again.

 

[user]

Ch 3 just feels like they made it and didn’t want to waste the assets, so they shoehorned it in, and it sucks big dong.

Agreed. It wasn't fun, it completely broke the pacing of the story, and the game never really recovers afterwards.

It's what keeps me from replaying, the thought that I have to suffer through "that part" again.

(Played until near ch3 end)

I liked the change of pace, but if you could somehow control how to go there - as a prisoner (same as now), undercover (same as now, but with gear, an amount of alternative dialog), or storm the place (shorter, much harder encounters), with actual incentives to be there, it would be quite a good addition to the game. Liked the space combat too somewhat, however it was a missed opportunity to make an actually fun roguelike mini game.

Unfortunately no point in saying these, since the scope was already too much for the greedy release date some douche in charge decided on (not in general), and this already started to show in ch3. I love the game, but from what I've heard, I am afraid that after playing ch4/5 I will think much less of it. Stopped because even with self-imposed rules, combat started becoming boring due to many things being broken or badly designed, so hope the second pass will do something about that (foolishly probably, because the first didn't)...

 

[Cryomancer]