Incline Warhammer 40,000 Lore Thread

[Louis_Cypher]

P.S.

Out of all the supurfluous Imperium sub-factions, I agree that Adeptus Mechanicus would probably be the one "most worthy" of existing.

Custodes and Knights would probably be the least.

Having the personal bodyguard of the Emperor being an entire faction is about the most weirdly specialist thing ever, sorry Henry Cavill.

 

[FritzedProcess]

The Space Marines Christmas box was hilariously bad, and the new combat patrol is an insult to intelligence. It's a subset of the Leviathan box (exact same monopose models, but you get half of the Infernus squad, no Apothecary Biologis, no Ballistus Dreadnought, no Lieutenant, and no Sternguard Veterans), so far less than 50% of that box (which you can still get for around 200 EUR on eBay, and for less than that if you live in the UK, and still sell the half that you don't want) at 125 EUR, so 25% more expensive than half a Leviathan box. Considering that you can still easily get most of the previous combat patrol boxes at 100 EUR each, I wonder who is going to buy that... latecomers in two years' time, I guess?

 

[revealer]

why isnt this in general thread

 

[fizzelopeguss]

This shit gets worse every year, I swear.

They did a great job with the Leviathan box, in fact I think they did too good of a job for their liking. People were talking about how it was a shit box, and this and that, because it was still in stock. Dumb, but you can understand where the shit talk came from. GW probably didn't care much for that.

Artificial scarcity, one of the greatest tools in the GW toolbox.

They've gone the magic route?

I haven't bought a GW game since Dreadfleet. Don't even recognise the games or company any more, it's all crap for retarded, cooming yanks on reddit.

 

[Storyfag]

I’ve lost interest in 40k for a variety of reasons, such as the obsession with space marines. Are there any other IPs providing alternatives? Is there a market for that?

I've lost interest in you making the same argument for setting after setting. Are there any other subjects you would like to broach?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I've lost interest in you making the same argument for setting after setting

He's not wrong I lost interest in AoS once the space marines showed up.

 

[Shig]

I lost interest in AoS

I can count on one hand the number of times i've seen AoS played at my two local shops. I have no idea how that dogshit setting is still going, apart from just some GW suit being too stubborn to admit that it is inferior in every way to Fantasy (RIP).

 

[Reever]

I lost interest in AoS

I can count on one hand the number of times i've seen AoS played at my two local shops. I have no idea how that dogshit setting is still going, apart from just some GW suit being too stubborn to admit that it is inferior in every way to Fantasy (RIP).

Isn't AoS extremely profitable? Especially compared to Fantasy? That's what I keep hearing whenever there's any AoS discussion going on.

 

[Caim]

I lost interest in AoS

I can count on one hand the number of times i've seen AoS played at my two local shops. I have no idea how that dogshit setting is still going, apart from just some GW suit being too stubborn to admit that it is inferior in every way to Fantasy (RIP).

Isn't AoS extremely profitable? Especially compared to Fantasy? That's what I keep hearing whenever there's any AoS discussion going on.

It is frequently stated (but never backed up with numbers) that the entirity of Warhammer Fantasy sold worse than certain 40k armies. I've seen people go so far to claim that certain Fantasy armies were being outsold by the Space Marine Tactical Squad, a single 10 model box.

So it would make sense that Age of Sigmar outsells Warhammer Fantasy, mostly because if you want to play that 90% of the Fantasy models don't have rules.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Yeah appparently it does better sales than 'Warhammer Fantasy' did.

I don't really want to mention 'Age of Sigmar' in the 40K lore thread, because it's shitness sullies 40K by association, I think it looks terrible/generic as a setting, the art is shit, and I can't really see the point of some weird generic planar setting compared to a single fantasy world with actual peoples, races, countries and history. It's embarrassing that 40K has this as it's sibling game, instead of a classic fantasy like Warhammer Fantasy (it's true sibling). That's just my impression after almost 10 years; maybe it developed some fantastic lore, but I doubt it. I liked Warhammer Fantasy well enough, but just can't see the appeal of something as gamified as that. It looks like a mid-2000s MMO, trying to ad hoc justify different factions existing in a generic eternal war.

Some classic 'Warhammer Fantasy' sculpts:

The appeal of Warhammer Fantasy when passing a GW shop window, was the really colourful interesting sculpts. Modern computer aided stuff loses a lot of this hand-crafted charm. Orcs especially suffer, looking more like generic post-Warcraft greenskins. The Warhammer Fantasy setting was itself, somewhat secondary, and after the Americans copied it in Warcraft, it started to look even more generic, as the "green Orc" spread through pop culture. 'Age of Sigmar' however looks like some generic 'Magic the Gathering'/'Warcraft'/'League of Legends'-tier bullshit to me, in terms of models.

 

[Shig]

Isn't AoS extremely profitable? Especially compared to Fantasy?

It is frequently stated (but never backed up with numbers) that the entirity of Warhammer Fantasy sold worse than certain 40k armies.

This is a story as old as time, they used to talk about this when I was heavy into tournaments at my local shop (at the time) about seventeen years ago. Fantasy was always seen as the grognard's game, it wasn't very accessible and it always felt like there was a higher learning curve to the whole thing. As someone who started playing Fantasy in 7th (the edition before its death), when I was a bit older, I can say that probably wasn't the case, but me and the boys all talked about it like that regardless.
My oldfag grudges aside, I struggle with wrapping my head around its profitability. I have heard that claim enough, by enough different people, that I almost have to believe it, but I see so few people playing it. It's almost like i'm on the constant hunt for the AoS whales who keep the whole thing afloat. This is not to say my two local haunts are the perfect representation of the state of AoS, but they're large enough shops that i'd expect to see it at least semi-frequently.

Now my oldfag grudges at the forefront, I really cannot bring myself to like many of the sculpts from AoS and its lore is just so goddamn boring. You'd think GW would want to profit as much as they possibly could off of the TWW games, that when people who play that get seduced by the resin they'd be caught in the Fantasy net, but instead all those folks have is AoS. Which is almost certainly not what they're looking for.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

As an aside, Warhammer Fantasy was also outsold by another GW product, as I'm sure people here are aware:

 

[Storyfag]

As an aside, Warhammer Fantasy was also outsold by another GW product, as I'm sure people here are aware:

Show. Me. The. Numbers.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Just going off what I seem to remember they claim, I suppose it could be a lie

 

[Shig]

As an aside, Warhammer Fantasy was also outsold by another GW product, as I'm sure people here are aware:

This, I have not heard. I actually like Middle Earth, I like that it serves a very small but dedicated community. But I have not ever heard that it outsold Fantasy.

I will die on the hill that Fantasy was killed off because its sales were, not poor, but probably not stellar compared to the golden child and were maybe event stagnant. You have to remember, or maybe you didn't experience this in-person for one reason or another, but Fantasy games were always larger than 40k games. You had a lot more on the table, and needed more on the table, in order to play. This, from a cost standpoint, was not great. Couple that with the fact that it was not nearly as accessible as 40k was, and you had a recipe for disaster. There are other reasons that people talk about a lot, like how the plot was initially written well and then they just didn't want to mess anything up so they did fucking nothing with it, but I feel like the number of models you needed was the real killer. Hell, even if you got those models you were approaching the tables of the oldest, most tight knit, group at your shop (at least in my experience) and that obviously wasn't something many were prepared to do. Enter AoS, a more 40k-like-skirmish-esque game with a much quicker playstyle.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Looked around and couldn't find a source for that, so it probably came from a YouTuber. My recollection is hazy.

One thing that does support the idea that 'Middle-Earth' became more popular, is the the Fighting Uruk Hai are the only unit to ever outsell the Space Marine Tactical Squad. That would represent a peak in interest, after the movies, I am guessing. From experience with other franchises, it's conceivable that having an ultra-popular setting competing directly with 'Warhammer Fantasy' made the latter redundant to gamers. What comes to mind is Lego losing it's unique 'Space' theme since acquiring 'Star Wars' (although they fucked up their own internal Space style before that too, so again evidence is ambiguous).

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Anyway enough fantasy in the 40K thread.

I think Orks were one of the best looking factions in both Fantasy and 40K. I will never call them 'Orruks', fuck you GW, more reason to ignore 'Age of Sigmar', and they better never force that shit into 40K like 'Drukhari' and 'Aeldari'. There used to be a lot of craziness, like that picture of a weirdboy vomiting warp energy, or the batshit colour scemes of the past. I contend that they have suffered badly in modern sculpts, losing a lot of their character, such as those big chimp-like grins they used to smirk.

Look at these 1st and 2nd edition beauties, so much character:

By 3rd and 4th edition, they were getting a bit more 'anatomically correct':

But the modern sculpts look like they are too clean from computer-aided-design:

Old Ghazghkull had a lot of character and was instantly recognisable:

New Ghazghkull looks like a generic warboss in Mega Armour:

Squats always had Orks as their arch-enemy, just as in Fantasy. Bringing Squats back should be an opportunity to ignite a renaissance in Ork on Dwarf violence. Longbeard ore miners throwing their power axes into Ork hordes, deep in the tunnels of the ancient mineral worlds of the galactic core. Instead they both are looking more like generic short people in space suits and generic green aliens, so GW need to get that batshit mentality back. Write some novels about Ork on Dwarf waaaaaghs.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Enjoyable narration

 

[Storyfag]

Enjoyable narration

Also nice AI artwork.

 

[Fedora Master]

 

[The Jester]

(Verse 1)
Clad in sigils, stern and grim
Twin ebon axes, fate's silent hymn
Executioners, headsman's embrace
In cold decree, foes meet their place

(Chorus)
Marching forth, headsman's might
With blades unsheathed, we bring the rite
For Imperium's law, our souls ignite
Headsman's justice, cutting through the blight

(Verse 2)
Through voids where shadows cower
We wield the Emperor's judgment, our power
No mercy dwells within our gaze
In frozen hearts, the heretic lays

(Chorus)
Marching forth, headsman's might
With blades unsheathed, we bring the rite
For Imperium's law, our souls ignite
Headsman's justice, cutting through the blight

(Bridge)
Emperor's will, the headsman's hand
Twin ebon axes, fate's demand
No hesitation, no remorse
Executioners stay their course

(Chorus)
Marching forth, headsman's might
With blades unsheathed, we bring the rite
For Imperium's law, our souls ignite
Headsman's justice, cutting through the blight

(Verse 3)
In aftermath, their cries do wane
Their hope, extinguished by our ordained reign
Executioners, in grim parade
Their fate in judgment, forever laid

(Chorus)
Marching forth, headsman's might
With blades unsheathed, we bring the rite
For Imperium's law, our souls ignite
Headsman's justice, cutting through the blight

(Outro)
In stoic purpose, our path remains
Twin ebon axes, marking their stains
For Imperium's will, we heed the call
Our hymn of silence, marking their fall

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I’m concerned about the Amazon tv show. Unlike other franchises, 40k doesn’t really have an overarching character-driven narrative. (The metaplot written by dozens of different writers over decades with completely different creative visions doesn’t count.) It’s a sandbox in which lots of weird stuff happens without being connected. The tv show, unless it’s an anthology series, is gonna have to invent a character-driven narrative or adapt one of the novel series. There are so many ways, aside from wokeness, that this could go wrong. The universe might shrink hugely and get indelibly associated with the character Cavill is playing, audiences might lose interest when his character leaves the show and it continues without him, or any number of other problems. It may seem foreign now, but back in the pre-woke days there were loads of shows that went wrong due to incompetence, behind the scenes drama, or going on way too long.

 

[Tyranicon]

I’m concerned about the Amazon tv show.

It's Amazon. Disaster incoming.

Have you seen Rings of Power, even the trailers?

I don't know why people are so optimistic.

 

[Caim]

I’m concerned about the Amazon tv show. Unlike other franchises, 40k doesn’t really have an overarching character-driven narrative. (The metaplot written by dozens of different writers over decades with completely different creative visions doesn’t count.) It’s a sandbox in which lots of weird stuff happens without being connected. The tv show, unless it’s an anthology series, is gonna have to invent a character-driven narrative or adapt one of the novel series. There are so many ways, aside from wokeness, that this could go wrong. The universe might shrink hugely and get indelibly associated with the character Cavill is playing, audiences might lose interest when his character leaves the show and it continues without him, or any number of other problems. It may seem foreign now, but back in the pre-woke days there were loads of shows that went wrong due to incompetence, behind the scenes drama, or going on way too long.

As a one-off movie there are some options. An obvious one is the First Tyrannic War: a bunch of space bugs are trying to eat an important planet so they need to be stopped is a simple enough plot. Have the Imperial Guard and AdMech in the initial assault on Tyran, a side cameo by the Tau as they're about to get stomped but are saved by the Deus Snacks Machina that is Hive Fleet Behemoth showing up and drawing the Ultramarines away, and once on Macragge there's the Ultramarines proper alongside some Titans, and it allows for a scene with some minor exposition about the still in stasis Guilliman along with a flashback to his duel with Fulgrim.

If they want something longer they can serialize Ciaphas Cain or turn Eisenhorn into a trilogy if they don't want a war movie.

Of if they want to take a risk and see if the world is ready for a couple of robots that squabble like an old married couple they can give The Infinite and the Divine a shot.

 

[lightbane]

Ciaphas Cain already has short stories that should be easy to adapt compared to SPeesh MAHRINE conflict n. 1251st, and he fights pretty much nearly every enemy of the Imperium, plus it has a more comedic tone compared to the others. I hope Horus Herpdesy's novels are ignored, as these are try-hard as hell, nevermind with actors.