Incline Warhammer 40,000 Lore Thread

[Caim]

Anyways I just realized Rogal Dorn has the emotional IQ of a Custodian.

Yeah.
And he is not alone in that regard:
Perturabo, The Lion, Ferrus Manus (though he had a strong friendship with Fulgrim).

Yeah but Dorn also was assigned to defend the Emprah as if a custodian guard. And he wears yellow.

Also The Lion has the emotional IQ of the Emprah, for better or worse embodying his Daddy problems.

Apparently the Lion had an aura of a predator. Every time he was in the room people felt like he could pounce them at any moment.

 

[Mangoose]

Anyways I just realized Rogal Dorn has the emotional IQ of a Custodian.

Yeah.
And he is not alone in that regard:
Perturabo, The Lion, Ferrus Manus (though he had a strong friendship with Fulgrim).

Yeah but Dorn also was assigned to defend the Emprah as if a custodian guard. And he wears yellow.

Also The Lion has the emotional IQ of the Emprah, for better or worse embodying his Daddy problems.

Apparently the Lion had an aura of a predator. Every time he was in the room people felt like he could pounce them at any moment.

And then he leaves his sons without explanation.

 

[NecroLord]

Anyways I just realized Rogal Dorn has the emotional IQ of a Custodian.

Yeah.
And he is not alone in that regard:
Perturabo, The Lion, Ferrus Manus (though he had a strong friendship with Fulgrim).

Yeah but Dorn also was assigned to defend the Emprah as if a custodian guard. And he wears yellow.

Also The Lion has the emotional IQ of the Emprah, for better or worse embodying his Daddy problems.

Apparently the Lion had an aura of a predator. Every time he was in the room people felt like he could pounce them at any moment.

And then he leaves his sons without explanation.

What's the current status lore-wise?
Has The Lion met with Roboute yet?
I assume him being stuck with his Dark Angels and with Dante and the Blood Angels in Imperium Nihilus makes things rather difficult...

 

[Caim]

Anyways I just realized Rogal Dorn has the emotional IQ of a Custodian.

Yeah.
And he is not alone in that regard:
Perturabo, The Lion, Ferrus Manus (though he had a strong friendship with Fulgrim).

Yeah but Dorn also was assigned to defend the Emprah as if a custodian guard. And he wears yellow.

Also The Lion has the emotional IQ of the Emprah, for better or worse embodying his Daddy problems.

Apparently the Lion had an aura of a predator. Every time he was in the room people felt like he could pounce them at any moment.

And then he leaves his sons without explanation.

Nah, the Lion just went for a nap. They knew where he was, he was just sleeping for 10.000 years.

 

[Mangoose]

Anyways I just realized Rogal Dorn has the emotional IQ of a Custodian.

Yeah.
And he is not alone in that regard:
Perturabo, The Lion, Ferrus Manus (though he had a strong friendship with Fulgrim).

Yeah but Dorn also was assigned to defend the Emprah as if a custodian guard. And he wears yellow.

Also The Lion has the emotional IQ of the Emprah, for better or worse embodying his Daddy problems.

Apparently the Lion had an aura of a predator. Every time he was in the room people felt like he could pounce them at any moment.

And then he leaves his sons without explanation.

What's the current status lore-wise?
Has The Lion met with Roboute yet?
I assume him being stuck with his Dark Angels and with Dante and the Blood Angels in Imperium Nihilus makes things rather difficult...

I just follow 1d4chan, so AFAIK the Lion can teleport by tripping out like Curze.

 

[Shig]

What's the current status lore-wise?
Has The Lion met with Roboute yet?
I assume him being stuck with his Dark Angels and with Dante and the Blood Angels in Imperium Nihilus makes things rather difficult...

Lion lurks around the protectorate with his Risen in tow.
No, he and Papa Smurf have not been reunited yet. He is excited to hear that his little brother is alive though.
The Lion isn't really stuck with anything at this point, which is surprising. He is not even really overseeing his sons, I believe he stated that he thought he "failed" them and thus is underserving of the mantle of leadership. He is travelling around with Fallen he's "redeemed" and is hitting shit - pretty cool.

 

[Caim]

Asmodai must be so fucking pissed at the Lion going "Eh, you lads are alright, come with me."

 

[Shig]

Asmodai must be so fucking pissed at the Lion going "Eh, you lads are alright, come with me."

It'll be incredibly interesting to see how both of them react to each other. Obviously Asmodai will show (initial) deference to his genefather, but he's always been portrayed (and accurately meme'd) to be absolutely unhinged, so you wonder if that deference will hold out when he is forced to work with Risen. As for ol' Lion, he seems hellbent on righting his wrongs and helping his sons, so I can't imagine he'll give up easily on Asmodai even if the worst should come to pass.
I'd like to say a fall to Chaos would be in the cards for Asmodai, but we both know that GW is not likely to throw away the potential for Asmodai's Primaris sculpt sales to do something fun in lore.

 

[NecroLord]

I'd like to say a fall to Chaos would be in the cards for Asmodai

How so?
I thought a Chaplain filled with so much hatred for heretics and Chaos is (mostly) shielded from corruption because of his faith and his hate.

 

[Shig]

I thought a Chaplain filled with so much hatred for heretics and Chaos is (mostly) shielded from corruption because of his faith and his hate.

I don't mean to imply that he will be falling to Chaos, I think his status as a named character and the potential for his new model to sell alongside the upcoming Dark Angels 10th supplement shield him from this (to make no mention of his lore, and how that makes it extremely unlikely as well). I meant that i'd like to see more radical story decisions coming from GW, something like him falling would be a radical narrative, but that doesn't mean its probable. Pay no mind to me though, i'm a fuckin xenosrefuge holding out hope for relevance and a Tau "Heresy" storyline that i'll never get.

As far as being shielded from corruption goes, you're not wrong. But it is only through their willpower that this shield exists, their brothers (or any human really) can have that same shield if they are devout/pure enough. Chaplains stand out because they are hand-picked by their respective chapters for being especially zealous, and thus are far more likely to have this metaphorical shield about them. They can still be corrupted, or "fall" if you prefer that terminology.

 

[Caim]

I'd like to say a fall to Chaos would be in the cards for Asmodai

How so?
I thought a Chaplain filled with so much hatred for heretics and Chaos is (mostly) shielded from corruption because of his faith and his hate.

Yeah, I'm not sure about that one. I would believe that he'd kill a few Fallen behind the Lion's back until he is found out and is promptly executed, which sows some doubt into the hearts of the more extreme parts of the chapter, but it wouldn't cause another Luther Kerfuffle.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Why squats are so boring now?

Dorf then:

Dorf now:

I've not yet had a chance to read the Squat Codex, but I used to like the idea that they had been some of Terra's earliest colonists, and that the centre of the Milky Way's richer older stars had seeded harsh planets with an abundance of minerals. So very Space Dwarf. I'm guessing that is unchanged, but not sure whether I like this new 'clones' lore yet. Like the Necrons, they can change it in future editions I guess.

​

​

When the worlds around the galactic core were first colonized by humans in the far distant past they discovered vast, almost limitless mineral deposits. These resources included compounds that had been smelted in the furnaces of dying stars and also strange substances that had been formed when the galaxy was born and before the laws of physics had stabilized. The discovery of these materials was very auspicious as the resources of Earth had been long exhausted and as a consequence the exploration and exploitation of the galactic core had been deemed imperative for the survival of humanity.​

​

Hundreds of thousand of miners, engineers and explorers in specially adapted spacecraft were sent to exploit the newfound wealth of the core which quickly turned into one of the most densely populated parts of the galaxy. Due to the inhospitable physical characteristics of the worlds here (see further down) they are generally considered to be quite unlikely places for human colonization and life. The original colonists coming to these worlds were hardy frontiers folk. These tough miners and explorers dreamt of reaping fantastic riches and then return to Earth.​

​

The colonists settled down and created self-contained communities by digging and drilling underground homes into the rocky surface of their new worlds and linking up the exhausted mines' tunnels and load-chambers. To feed the increasing population it was not possible to rely on the food brought along on huge cargo ships. It was necessary to construct artificially lit hydroponic tanks in the depths of the planets and cultivate nutritive algae there. These algae were then dried and processed and served as the base material for all kinds of food such as flour, coarse synthetic food and even crude but very potent ale.​

 

[Fedora Master]

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Why squats are so boring now?

Dorf then:

Dorf now:

I've not yet had a chance to read the Squat Codex, but I used to like the idea that they had been some of Terra's earliest colonists, and that the centre of the Milky Way's richer older stars had seeded harsh planets with an abundance of minerals. So very Space Dwarf. I'm guessing that is unchanged, but not sure whether I like this new 'clones' lore yet. Like the Necrons, they can change it in future editions I guess.

​

​

When the worlds around the galactic core were first colonized by humans in the far distant past they discovered vast, almost limitless mineral deposits. These resources included compounds that had been smelted in the furnaces of dying stars and also strange substances that had been formed when the galaxy was born and before the laws of physics had stabilized. The discovery of these materials was very auspicious as the resources of Earth had been long exhausted and as a consequence the exploration and exploitation of the galactic core had been deemed imperative for the survival of humanity.​

​

Hundreds of thousand of miners, engineers and explorers in specially adapted spacecraft were sent to exploit the newfound wealth of the core which quickly turned into one of the most densely populated parts of the galaxy. Due to the inhospitable physical characteristics of the worlds here (see further down) they are generally considered to be quite unlikely places for human colonization and life. The original colonists coming to these worlds were hardy frontiers folk. These tough miners and explorers dreamt of reaping fantastic riches and then return to Earth.​

​

The colonists settled down and created self-contained communities by digging and drilling underground homes into the rocky surface of their new worlds and linking up the exhausted mines' tunnels and load-chambers. To feed the increasing population it was not possible to rely on the food brought along on huge cargo ships. It was necessary to construct artificially lit hydroponic tanks in the depths of the planets and cultivate nutritive algae there. These algae were then dried and processed and served as the base material for all kinds of food such as flour, coarse synthetic food and even crude but very potent ale.​

Exactly, it was very sci-fi (something Warhammer 40k desperately needs right now).

How strange it all is - they went from 2000 A.D.-style punk science fiction, through the fantasy era, and now everything looks like Marvel. What will be GW's next step?

 

[Caim]

Having Fantasy and 40k use the same rules made for some silly comparisons. An arquebus is more powerful than a .75 cal rocket (the bolter ignores saves of 5+ or worse, while the handgun worsens all saves by 2), a normal man with a halberd hits harder than a genetically engineered supersoldier in power armor with a chainsaw sword (Str 4, substract 1 from all saves on the halberd, while the chainsword is just Str 4), and a muzzle-loaded cannon hits harder than a science fiction laser cannon (Str 10, ignore all armor saves VS Str 9, ignore all saves of 2 or worse).

And yes, that means that the Greatsword guy hits harder than the Space Marine does. Not as much as the Sigmarine, since his game works differently.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

And yes, that means that the Greatsword guy hits harder than the Space Marine does.

This is why the Emperor thought man was worthy

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Shouldn't the Imperial and Chaos warships be identical at this point in time?

For fun I am gonna speculate on what might be happening there. God knows I love starships.

In Battlefleet Gothic, they explained that Chaos had got their distinct starships from an Imperial shipyard, but their keels were laid down under a different (later) Imperial era than the standard ships of the Gothic Sector's navy. However I think that they probably represented a parralel human design lineage from the Dark Age of Technology, equal in antiquity to the familiar designs employed by the majority of Battlefleet Gothic. Charitably, we are probably expected to believe that by chance, the two lineages have ended up on different sides again in that artwork, even back during the Horus Heresy, like a legion wearing Mark III 'Iron' pattern Astartes armour vs. one wearing Mark VI 'Corvus' pattern Astartes armour. Yep; it's very unlikely, and they shouldn't keep doing this.

In favour of that interpretation, the Terminus Est, dating from the Horus Heresy, is already constructed in the 'Chaos style', and the Imperium employs an aged Grand Cruiser design in the Gothic Sector which shares aspects of it's overall appearance with the warships of Chaos (Grand Cruisers as a separate tonnage having fallen out of favour with the Imperial Navy, but some antiques remain in service).

What is probably happening is that the human starship designs of the 41st Milennium are meant to be quite diverse, perhaps representing different ideas fielded by long-dead planetary governments, regional empires, or galactic federations, from before the Age of Strife. I would guess that all of the above are valid designs seen regularily within the Imperium, including the typical Chaos one. Some might share the same superstructure/class, and only differ in their outward appearance, or prow (like the Adeptus Mechanicus variant of the Lunar-class). In a real navy, there are a lot of ships that are of the same 'class', sharing the same superstructure, but look quite different, having different turrets or towers on deck (unlike say planes, which are identical in a given production).

An extreme example of this might be how Yamato's sister ship Shinano was converted into an aircraft carrier:

One of course couldn't convert say, an F35 Lightning II into a Flying Boat easily, but ships are more flexible.

Below is an example of two Dictator-class battlecruisers, laid down perhaps at different Forge Worlds (Mars and ????). The Imperial Navy obtains ships from wider sources than the machine cult's Forge Worlds, including shipyards above Fortress Worlds, Civilized Worlds and Hive Worlds. Perhaps they additionally have the Tech Priests build their vessels to a certain preferred design pattern, and don't like the one employed by the machine cult's own explorator fleets:

The first Dictator-class is obviously employed by the Adeptus Mechanicus, while the second is obviously employed by the Imperial Navy. They are the same class, with roughly the same armament of macro-cannons and launch bays, but the Imperial Navy favours a naval ram. What might be going on there, is that the Dictator-class superstructure was a shared ancient design across many different planets (perhaps a universally known STC pattern), before the Age of Strife, but the different cultures, isolated by warp storms, took the lineage in different directions. Or perhaps, the design split is even more ancient, and had already been developed in different directions by long-forgotton political entities during the Dark Age of Technology. On the other hand, it could be modern, with the Imperial Navy and Adeptus Mechanicus having both customised an ancient frame to their liking. Were these designs once employed as science vessels, colony ships, or bulk freighters, aeons ago?

There are some good fanon designs:

Something that might be interesting to know is what the fleets of the Horus Heresy era looked like, when the Imperium's forces operated in combined legions; what proportions of major Expeditionary Fleets were made of what classes. Did some legions favour certain design lineages (perhaps having a specific Forge World assigned to supply them)? For example "Iron Warriors use X, Word Bearers use Y, Ultramarines use Z". We know from the texts that there were Space Marine battle barges and strike cruisers in the fleets. Probably mixed in with Imperial Navy ships of the usual classes. Maybe Mechanicus ones too. So maybe specific legions naval arm used either Gothic Sector style Imperial or Chaos style ships depending on their Forge World of origin. The Gloriana-class, given to each primarch, seem quite different from one another in outward appearance, and don't follow Space Marine tropes.

'Macragge's Honour' (pictured above) looks very different to say the Iron Warriors 'Iron Blood' (pictured below):

Neither ship looks like a later stereotypical Space Marine battle barge, but more like an Imperial Navy battleship.

A notable Gloriana-class that differs from both is Horus's flagship, Vengeful Spirit, which has two different appearances:

Possibly she underwent radical refit, stripping her superstructure, over the 10,000 years, at shipyards in the Eye of Terror.

 

[Caim]

Or, you know, the Warp does weird shit to your spaceship.

 

[Akratus II]

 

[Fedora Master]

Considering the Legions each had Things going other than brutal murderfucking I like to imagine the Emperor did not intend to get rid of them. Much like the samurai turned into bureaucrats and artists when there was no war.

Not to mention putting a few thousand on a mountain is far easier than clandestinely murdering 6 million or however many Astartes there were at the time.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

Read End and the Death part 2. It somehow feels even more bloated and masturbatory than part 1. As with part 1 we could've done without three quarters of this book and nothing of value would be lost. I really am starting to suspect that this was one novel broken up into 3. Why? I don't know. All I know is that Sanguinius can move at the speed of light but Horus moves at the speed of darkness. And Abnett honestly thought that was a clever thing to write.

 

[Mangoose]

Read End and the Death part 2. It somehow feels even more bloated and masturbatory than part 1. As with part 1 we could've done without three quarters of this book and nothing of value would be lost. I really am starting to suspect that this was one novel broken up into 3.

Probably one short novel divided into 3 with a lot crapload of fluff. Or just fluff. I really didn't expect much because.. there just isn't room to write much about what's happening at the time. And I don't think Abnett is one to shake up canon-canon - basically shown it just reverting back to status quo. Except.. that's a good choice. There isn't a reason to shake things up. Which leads to another problem - if it doesn't shake me up thus there isn't a reason to read it. So he throws in subplots. I actually enjoyed reading them but they literally felt like side stories.

But, then again, what exactly can you add to the canon at this point? Certainly not 3 books worth. Because all they're doing is crossing a spaceship. There's nothing interesting about this stage at all. Should just stop writing already...

Why? I don't know.

$$$GamesWorkshop$$$

All I know is that Sanguinius can move at the speed of light but Horus moves at the speed of darkness. And Abnett honestly thought that was a clever thing to write.

And Oll Person is master of Talk No Jutsu.

I do wonder though if he's gonna do any hints about the Yellow King...

 

[NecroLord]

Considering the Legions each had Things going other than brutal murderfucking I like to imagine the Emperor did not intend to get rid of them. Much like the samurai turned into bureaucrats and artists when there was no war.

Not to mention putting a few thousand on a mountain is far easier than clandestinely murdering 6 million or however many Astartes there were at the time.

That would've worked, but not with all of the Legions.
Those like the World Eaters and Night Lords? Not gonna happen. Without war and bloodshed, they might've gotten a bit too rowdy. So Emps would've had to just BLAM them.
But the Blood Angels, Salamanders, Ultramarines, Emperor's Children, White Scars? Yes, they had a wide array of occupations and various interests, ranging from art to civil administration.

 

[lightbane]

Read End and the Death part 2. It somehow feels even more bloated and masturbatory than part 1. As with part 1 we could've done without three quarters of this book and nothing of value would be lost. I really am starting to suspect that this was one novel broken up into 3. Why? I don't know. All I know is that Sanguinius can move at the speed of light but Horus moves at the speed of darkness. And Abnett honestly thought that was a clever thing to write.

So, that's how much Abb has fallen, to write literal Naruto fanfiction. Derp.

 

[NecroLord]

Read End and the Death part 2. It somehow feels even more bloated and masturbatory than part 1. As with part 1 we could've done without three quarters of this book and nothing of value would be lost. I really am starting to suspect that this was one novel broken up into 3. Why? I don't know. All I know is that Sanguinius can move at the speed of light but Horus moves at the speed of darkness. And Abnett honestly thought that was a clever thing to write.

I am now convinced that the Sanguinius vs Horus fight should've just remained in the lore. A truly mythical battle.
Same with the Horus vs Emperor battle, where Emps utterly annihilated Horus from existence and became the godly vegetable the Imperium now worships.