Unofficial Arcanum Patch (Original Thread)

[Drog Black Tooth]

Re: WorldEd 1070

Long time player, first time poster. Thank you very much, Drog, for the patches. Are the udpates made with the UAP or Extras fully compatible if I downgrade to WorldEd 1070? Does it even matter?

The UAP includes an improved version of WorldEd 1.0.6.9 (there's no 1.0.7.0 version of WorldEd). Only this version should be used with the UAP, since other versions aren't compatible with the changes introduced in the patch and will cause problems.

And what about a Fortifier which don't make your followers berserk when you use it on them ?

If a spell does damage, NPCs get angry. It's probably not possible to fix this without adding new scripting commands (and I don't want to do this).

Minor looping dialog. You talk to Captain Wheel, outside the factory that is housing the orc uprising, and sympathize with the orcs until he suggests you talk to Mr. Babcock, the gnome sympathizer. After speaking with Mr. Babcock and return to speak to Wheeler, Wheeler will explain to you the situation with the orcs, again. This does not make sense as Wheeler told you of the situation the first time you talked to him, but just did not tell you of his possible solutions because you sympathized with the orcs and he told you to speak with Mr. Babcock. My Character is an half-orc and has no skill in persuasion and does not have substantial charisma if that affects this.

There are several cases where Wheeler tells you to go talk to Babcock, even before you hear what the situation is all about, so removing the repeating lines will make the game inconsistent. Moreover, this lets you take different answers the next time you talk to Wheeler.

I do not know if this is a bug or not. Capt. Wheeler gives you the quest to convince Donn Throgg to surrender and after talking to Mr. Throgg, you discover that it was a ruse by Capt. Wheeler to have Mr. Throgg come out, line 36. At this point, the quest becomes botched and Throgg refuses to come out and tells you to tell Wheeler that he is not coming out. Yet when you go out and talk to Wheeler, nothing. No new dialog, just a "Hi, bye" dialog is available. You cannot tell him of the message or anything.

Fixed, thank you.

You can keep asking Mr. Babcock "What is going on here", line 3, at the beginning of every dialog even after he has told you.

The line is present until you take his quest.

I do not know if this is intentional but when Donn Throgg surrenders and Capt. Wheeler and his boys open fire on Throgg, your companions attack Wheeler and his crew. Even if you convince Throgg to surrender was a ruse to have Throgg killed, that makes no sense to attack Wheeler.

That's quite strange. Perhaps your followers were standing in the line of fire and got shot accidentally? Please do upload your save if it isn't so.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Can I move .sec and .mob files that I made with another version of WorldEd to this new pack you are releasing before Christmas? Or are they incompatible?

The new version will have a slightly different way of reading/generating NPC prototypes, so older ones won't be compatible. Other formats aren't affected.

 

[okashii]

2 questions: (sorry its not patch related but I have the highiest chance to get an anwser here)

- how do I shoot 2 arrows at once? (I am expert bowman but I cant find any key to change the attack mode)

- outside Khergan's castle in the Viod there are two guards near the entrance, is there any way to enter the castle without killing them? (I managed to get there without killing anyone during the entire game but I cant find any pacifist way to get past them)

 

[Whispering Darkness]

- outside Khergan's castle in the Viod there are two guards near the entrance, is there any way to enter the castle without killing them? (I managed to get there without killing anyone during the entire game but I cant find any pacifist way to get past them)

Those guards attack if you have Arronax in your group. If Arronax is not in your group, they will let you pass through the castle peacefully.

The line is present until you take his quest.

I am unable to take this quest though. Isn't the only way to get his quest is with high charisma and persuasion?

That's quite strange. Perhaps your followers were standing in the line of fire and got shot accidentally? Please do upload your save if it isn't so.

I reloaded this part several times. I do not know if it matters but my only follower was a Automaton. I would stand off to the side so there was absolutely no chance of getting hit by stray bullets.

 

[okashii]

Whispering Darkness:

that works when you are evil and took the evil path, but it doesnt seem to work when Im good (they just say go away or we kill you)

 

[Woreczko]

- how do I shoot 2 arrows at once? (I am expert bowman but I cant find any key to change the attack mode)

After receiving expert training you do shoot 2 arrows at once (turn on verbose floats and you will see, that you inflict damage twice per shot). However only one arrow gets removed from your inventory after a shot. Dunno if it is fixable... Drog?

 

[Spillmill]

Drog, absolutely astounded by what you have achieved! The game looks great with all the sprite art in.

One question, why did you make grenades 4 AP when you said it was originally meant to be 2? Isn't that a balance change?

Oops, one more question. What is the latest on the grammar fixes - any chance of future work or you have called an end to it? (I would be interested in helping)

(yes I read the whole 80 pages.. took me days)

EDIT: grammer -> grammar LOL

 

[Whispering Darkness]

that works when you are evil and took the evil path, but it doesnt seem to work when Im good (they just say go away or we kill you)

Very true, a lapse in my recollection. So the answer I would guess would be no. Do not think there is a way to get passed the guards without combat. Perhaps sneaking through or just running past them as you have probably already tried.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

- how do I shoot 2 arrows at once? (I am expert bowman but I cant find any key to change the attack mode)

After receiving expert training you do shoot 2 arrows at once (turn on verbose floats and you will see, that you inflict damage twice per shot). However only one arrow gets removed from your inventory after a shot. Dunno if it is fixable... Drog?

I don't think this is a bug, I'm quite sure that expert training works this way for balance reasons.

One question, why did you make grenades 4 AP when you said it was originally meant to be 2? Isn't that a balance change?

I stated my reasons in the original post.

Throwing an item (but not a boomerang type weapon) in turn-based now takes 4 APs. (It was set to 2 APs originally, but I guess that makes little sense since spells take 4 APs, so I changed it. Perhaps they never bothered to balance this, since the function never really worked.)

 

[Qwinn]

Drog,

As a fellow game-fixer-and-restorer, let me say, brilliant work here! The changelog is impressive as hell, makes me definitely want to give this game another try. Looking forward to your next update, I'll definitely hold off till then, your "Upcoming Changes" list looks too good to pass up.

Keep up the great work!

Qwinn

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Thank you, I appreciate it.

I have to say that I like your approach to bug fixing too, since however hard it may be we have to find solutions that are most close to the original intentions, and can please most people at the same time. It's definitely delicate work.

 

[Shambelle]

Re: WorldEd 1070

If a spell does damage, NPCs get angry. It's probably not possible to fix this without adding new scripting commands (and I don't want to do this).

Well, I know that.
The problem is also that the Fortifier is used by your PC: NPCs get angry at you.
An exemple in another game (Fallout II) would be that you use a Super Stimpack on a follower and then this one goes berserk at you.

I was thinking at something more like "change the Fortifier item so that you don't use the Tech spell but add a script like for the magical healing potions".
This script would call the spell but with no PC origin.
The NPCs would would then get the benefits of the item and then take some damages without going angry (as when some NPCs take damages from the scenery).

But if you think it would be too cumbersome, don't bother: you already do a really briliante work.

 

[Whispering Darkness]

I do believe this is a bug concerning Victor Misk, Bingham Shulefest, Lillian Misk, and digging up the late Victor Misk. Most know that Bingham is the dwarf working at the cemetery that can assist you with digging up Victor's grave by providing a shovel and a good time to dig him up. What seems to be the problem is that taking only certain dialog routes with Lillian will allow you get to help from Bingham. When first talking to Lillian and asking what happened to Victor, you get three choices, 60, 62, and 63. It seems if you take line 62 or 63 Bingham will not assist you with digging up Victor, in fact, you are not given the option of asking for help from Bingham. You must take line 60 and then 75 or end dialog sometime after 60 and eventually take line 45 to trigger the option to seek help from Bingham. It seems if you don't take this route, even after exhausting all dialog options with Bingham and Lillian, looking at Victor's grave, and even trying to dig it up unsuccessfully without a shovel, you cannot get assistance from Bingham. NOTE: This is done as a half-orc, initial reaction from Bingham of 35, and with no companions, so I do not know if Magnus affects possible help from Bingham. I know this is minor but seems inconsistent and is perhaps actually a bug.

 

[Qwinn]

I have to say that I like your approach to bug fixing too, since however hard it may be we have to find solutions that are most close to the original intentions, and can please most people at the same time. It's definitely delicate work.

Thank you kindly... you're right, of course. There's a lot of factors to consider. And if, as some people suggest, you completely discount in-game dialogue and game balance as reasons to fix/change something, and only fix things by literal confirmation from the original game developers that something is a bug, the biggest fixpack around would have a changelog 3 lines long.

Qwinn

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

I do believe this is a bug concerning Victor Misk, Bingham Shulefest, Lillian Misk, and digging up the late Victor Misk. Most know that Bingham is the dwarf working at the cemetery that can assist you with digging up Victor's grave by providing a shovel and a good time to dig him up. What seems to be the problem is that taking only certain dialog routes with Lillian will allow you get to help from Bingham. When first talking to Lillian and asking what happened to Victor, you get three choices, 60, 62, and 63. It seems if you take line 62 or 63 Bingham will not assist you with digging up Victor, in fact, you are not given the option of asking for help from Bingham. You must take line 60 and then 75 or end dialog sometime after 60 and eventually take line 45 to trigger the option to seek help from Bingham. It seems if you don't take this route, even after exhausting all dialog options with Bingham and Lillian, looking at Victor's grave, and even trying to dig it up unsuccessfully without a shovel, you cannot get assistance from Bingham. NOTE: This is done as a half-orc, initial reaction from Bingham of 35, and with no companions, so I do not know if Magnus affects possible help from Bingham. I know this is minor but seems inconsistent and is perhaps actually a bug.

Looks like this was intended. Basically, there are two flags, one is set when you take a look at the grave, and the other one gets set in Mrs. Misk's dialog (when she tells you where Victor is buried). You can ask Bingham to assist you in digging up the grave only if both are set, if you have only one of the two set, Bingham can tell you if you need to take a look at the grave/go talk to Mrs. Misk. So, it may be a bad design choice, but it won't be a good idea to change this, I suppose.

The line is present until you take his quest.

I am unable to take this quest though. Isn't the only way to get his quest is with high charisma and persuasion?

You need Persuasion of 12 or higher (3 CPs spent) to take the quest.

That's quite strange. Perhaps your followers were standing in the line of fire and got shot accidentally? Please do upload your save if it isn't so.

I reloaded this part several times. I do not know if it matters but my only follower was a Automaton. I would stand off to the side so there was absolutely no chance of getting hit by stray bullets.

I can't seem to reproduce this. Please upload your save if you still have it.

 

[Whispering Darkness]

Looks like this was intended. Basically, there are two flags, one is set when you take a look at the grave, and the other one gets set in Mrs. Misk's dialog (when she tells you where Victor is buried). You can ask Bingham to assist you in digging up the grave only if both are set, if you have only one of the two set, Bingham can tell you if you need to take a look at the grave/go talk to Mrs. Misk. So, it may be a bad design choice, but it won't be a good idea to change this, I suppose.

I thought it was intended but a poor design choice as well. Taking the correct dialog choices gives no significant information. What she tells you is that he was buried, which can easily be figured out by going to the cemetery and asking Bingham, and that no one suspicious was at the funeral, again, not important. Perhaps looking into this and adjusting it to be more logical is a step I would suggest.

I can't seem to reproduce this. Please upload your save if you still have it.

I no longer have it, sorry.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

I have a small announcement.

I'm sorry to say, but there will be no Christmas version of the patch, the release is delayed, due to something very important coming up. No kidding. I won't give you any hints, just wait, it won't take long. But I can tell you one thing - if you're a fan, there's a high chance that you will be moved to tears. From joy.

In the meantime, we can keep working on fixing more bugs, please continue with your reports.

 

[OSK]

I'm intrigued.

 

[Whispering Darkness]

:!:

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

The legendary Dwarves-Taking-Over-Tarant video was uncovered? :shock:

 

[BillyOgawa]

I can't take this suspense!

 

[gothemasticator]

Drog,

At the Crash Site there is a piece of steel under the factory discard crate that is almost hidden in the tall grass. This piece of steel is not pick-up-able. Can you remove it entirely? (I've read much of this thread and couldn't find mention of it.)

I am thouroughly enjoying your patch. I have been playing with Chris Beddoes' Carcanum mod for some time. And though I love his imaginative approach, it is great to re-experience the fun and difficulty of the original game. Thanks.

gothemasticator

*EDIT*

I also notice that you can always ask the various guards where to find an expert on throwing, even though the other expert questions disappear after being answered.

 

[Zappa1One]

At the Crash Site there is a piece of steel under the factory discard crate that is almost hidden in the tall grass. This piece of steel is not pick-up-able.

You have to press CTRL or ALT + Left click for that :wink:

 

[gothemasticator]

Zappa, thanks!
All these years and I never figured out how to pick that damn thing up!

-Any chance of the can't-use-waypoints-while-wearing-the-chapeau bug being fixed?

-Now here's an interesting one: I did the crystal ball quest first thing upon entering Tarant. Madame Toussaud told me information about a missing painting. I replied, "I don't know anything about a missing painting." She says, "You will. You will." And she gives me the Mulligan address.

So I go to the address, but I have no dialogue options with the half-orc other than leave dialogue. Shouldn't I be able to ask about the painting with the info I have?

*Edit*

-The campfires of the gypsies in Shrouded Hills and Tarant (haven't tested the others yet) do damage and can destroy your armor if you stand too close, yet there is no fire animation. Could flames be added? (like at the blacksmith's).

gothemasticator

 

[Whispering Darkness]

-Now here's an interesting one: I did the crystal ball quest first thing upon entering Tarant. Madame Toussaud told me information about a missing painting. I replied, "I don't know anything about a missing painting." She says, "You will. You will." And she gives me the Mulligan address.

So I go to the address, but I have no dialogue options with the half-orc other than leave dialogue. Shouldn't I be able to ask about the painting with the info I have?

There are only a few things that add dialog options for this quest line concerning that guard. This is not one of them. There was a discussion about this quest a page or two back, look it over. Sadly, this quest, to me, still feels incomplete, that more can be done. Perhaps one day.