Unofficial Arcanum Patch (Original Thread)

[Whispering Darkness]

Even after saving the elf hunter from Qintarra, you speak to Waromon about you being there for the imprisoned elf. Since you cannot have Waromon as a follower unless you convince Kan Karai through dialog to not war with the warm-bloods, there seems to be no reason to keep the line concerning the elf [2] and just keep line 5.

EDIT: There seems to be a small looping dialog in Raven's speech after you speak with the Silver Lady. It is concerning her opinion of the Dark Elves. The first time you ask for her opinion is line 420 but can ask her again, that seems to loop, in lines: 427, 431, 423, 427 again.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

This has been a quest that has bugged me for a long time due to how it can be solved. Solve The Garringsburg Painting Robbery. We all know where the painting is but there are several ways you can get the painting. Fighting your way in and sneaking your way in is a no problem. What bugs me is how it can be solved without combat. The exact way to do this is by first receiving the quest to deliver the note to Robby Limes without opening the note. The note reads the location of the painting. While on the quest to deliver the note, you simply have to have that quest active [not completed or botched] and look at Robby Limes' passport. That's it. You talk to the guard and with the right dialog, he gives you the key. You don't even have to read the note, yet you know what it says. And this can only be done while on the note delivery quest, if you botch or complete it, you cannot get the painting the the manner I just listed. Bribing the door man and researching in the hall of records doesn't help this. What I am proposing is this... If you don't read the note, you don't know what it says. Researching Robby Limes should open up the ability to give intelligent responses to the guard. Have it as an option to botch the note delivery quest [reading the note and then giving it to Mr. Limes and thus he attacks you] and you can take a peak at his passport and still talk your way past the painting guard. Does this make sense? It seems more logical to have these other options to be possible. If Drog permits this, perhaps we should look into this?

The line of answers starts with mentioning the note ("I was given a note with this address on it..."), so the best thing I can do to make the dialog more logical without adding custom content (i.e. new lines) is make the line appear only after actually reading the note. However, it's quite plausible that the original intent was to make it possible to finish the both quests peacefully and there's no real need to change this.

Anyway, here's the correct line of answers in the dialog of the watchdog, with requirements for each line listed.
- I believe you have the wrong house, sir. Perhaps you'd better leave.
- I was given a note with this address on it... // The delivery quest accepted but not botched or completed
- [The half-ogre looms over you, glaring.] Yeah? And what business have you got coming here with it?
- I'm here for the painting... // The PC has seen the "Garringburg Heist" paper
- [The half-ogre looks unsure. He stammers...] Whu...? I mean, I thought...who are you? How do you know about the painting?
- Relax, friend. Rorry Limes sent me... // The PC has seen the passport of Rorry Limes.

Having said that, it's also important to mention that the quest was impossible to finish peacefully in the original version, since two lines had typos in their requirements ("I'm here for the painting..." and "Relax, friend. Rorry Limes sent me..."), so they were inaccessible. This makes it clear that this solution to the quest wasn't tested at all, and was coded hastily (like many things in the game, sadly). Thus I suspect the original intent was to make the solution possible only after reading the note, especially since it gives you a rumor. Moreover, the dialog makes more sense this way.

Feel free to post your comments and suggestions on the matter.

 

[Kz3r0]

Well it makes sense, but you should have the possibility to finish the quest even after the delivery of the note to Rorry Limes by pickpocketing it from him.

 

[Koshachiy Barin]

I'm here for the painting... // The PC has seen the "Garringburg Heist" paper

What if the player have taken the quest but "forgot" to read the paper? Doesn't make much sense...

Researching Robby Limes should open up the ability to give intelligent responses to the guard.

Seconded.

Well it makes sense, but you should have the possibility to finish the quest even after the delivery of the note to Rorry Limes by pickpocketing it from him.

Seconded too.
I also noticed that to see the passport of Rorry Limes, you don't even need to kill him or steal it from him. It's enough to "pickpocket" Rorry's inventory and highlight his passport (and you don't need any pickpocket skill to do it). Don't know if it was intended to work this way...

Overall, I also tend to think that the solution should be possible only after reading the note. Maybe getting the list of visitors from the Gentleman's Club doorman and then checking the Hall of Records is what remains from another path to solve the quest that was planned but never finished?

 

[Whispering Darkness]

I am glad I am not the only person that feels this way about the quest. Completely agree that it should be possible to complete the whole thing peacefully but there is just some aspects of it that simply makes little sense. But Drog would have to add some content to make it plausible. Researching Robby Limes should have an influence, perhaps including a Charisma, and/or Persuasion, and/or Intelligence check when talking to the guard. Since this approach is passive and those skills are used to avoid combat. There is also getting information from the Madamme Toussaude’s crystal ball quest. The only thing that concerns me is that this could be considered a balance fix. I would consider this quest one of the big quests in Tarant.

Here are my suggestions... Researching Robby Limes and speaking to the guard should require a intelligence and persuasion check as you are making an educated guess that the painting is there. Actually possessing the passport of Robby Limes should satisfy the check and not the cheap tactic of the pick pocket trick. Or maybe a dialog tree where you can discover who he is without even looking at the passport. The note, either you know what it says by reading it, or you don't. Or perhaps a way to reseal the note in a manner that is not detected by Robby Limes. Or even when you have collected all the evidence to where the painting is and who is involved, you can contact the authorities and they can take over from there.

I know these are all big suggestions and alot of them require added content, perhaps have it as an optional download. This quest just has so much potential.

 

[Cogar]

The Garringsburg quest is mostly broken. The only methods that make sense are by going to the Hall of Records and then confronting the ogre at the warehouse, or working with Madam Toussaude and confronting the ogre at the warehouse. Both solutions require wacking the guard. Any other solution becomes quite implausible such as the somewhat obscure way of meeting Rorry Limes via the quest of the dark elf noble in the gentlemen's club, since the player would have no way of knowing the two quests are connected, let alone deciding to pickpocket the person to whom you deliver the note after being told not to open it on penalty of death. Although I am a fan of Arcanum, I believe that the "pickpocket" line is the lamest solution in all of RPG gaming. It's so badly broken I suggest leaving it alone unless someone rewrites it--and I doubt that Drog would approve of a rewrite.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

You don't have to fight the half-ogre. Just "borrow" a key from his pocket and open the door with it. He doesn't object. Which is kinda weird if you think about it for a minute.

 

[Cogar]

You don't have to fight the half-ogre. Just "borrow" a key from his pocket and open the door with it. He doesn't object. Which is kinda weird if you think about it for a minute.

Thanks for the advice. I doubt that such a solution would have ever occurred to me.

 

[Cogar]

Interesting. Seems like this quest is unfinished (or not properly tested anyway). There's no extra scripting, no extra lines in the dialogs of either Jormund or the guard for the situation where the PC kills Wrath before talking to Jormund. The best we can do is just block the whole quest if Wrath gets killed by the PC, i.e. once Wrath is killed Jormund won't talk to the PC (he will be just floating generic greetings). Any objections?

I believe that this makes the most sense--and missing the quest is a valid consequence of a rash choice on the player's part. Besides, if you kill Wrath, it would make no sense for Jormund to be blamed for his death.

Maybe you should still be able to get him to join you, although I do not know what the premise would be. Perhaps he would be grateful that you "accidentally" removed his contract. (I know it's a stretch, but perhaps something to consider.)

 

[Whispering Darkness]

I believe that this makes the most sense--and missing the quest is a valid consequence of a rash choice on the player's part. Besides, if you kill Wrath, it would make no sense for Jormund to be blamed for his death.

Maybe you should still be able to get him to join you, although I do not know what the premise would be. Perhaps he would be grateful that you "accidentally" removed his contract. (I know it's a stretch, but perhaps something to consider.)

It would seem the most logical response by Jormund would be anger. When you suggest killing Wrath for him he gets extremely angry. Perhaps having Jormund lash out at you for killing his only tutor would also be a possible scenario if you kill Wrath yourself.

 

[Cogar]

It would seem the most logical response by Jormund would be anger. When you suggest killing Wrath for him he gets extremely angry. Perhaps having Jormund lash out at you for killing his only tutor would also be a possible scenario if you kill Wrath yourself.

Given the types of choices you get in a stereotypical Arcanum dialog, this makes sense. The mitigating factor would be the fact that Jormund has a mild desire to get out from under his obligation, but did not want to dishonor himself by quitting, etc. Further, most of the potential followers in Arcanum have a great deal of patience with the PC, since they are intended to be followers (assuming their alignments are compatible, of course), and therefore would not fly into a rage with the PC based on a single "wrong" behavior or dialog choice.

 

[Whispering Darkness]

Given the types of choices you get in a stereotypical Arcanum dialog, this makes sense. The mitigating factor would be the fact that Jormund has a mild desire to get out from under his obligation, but did not want to dishonor himself by quitting, etc. Further, most of the potential followers in Arcanum have a great deal of patience with the PC, since they are intended to be followers (assuming their alignments are compatible, of course), and therefore would not fly into a rage with the PC based on a single "wrong" behavior or dialog choice.

While this is mostly true that many would-be followers are very forgiving, some are not. Ashe and Vollinger are two who attack you if you say the wrong things. Granted, they are considered evil characters. Even Raven and Dante will attack if you do a few things wrong and they are good aligned. So having Jormund attack you for killing Wrath is not too far fetched, yes? I do think most would agree that getting Jormund as a follower would require you to clear his name instead of killing Wrath outright.

 

[Cogar]

I forgot about Vollinger, but I can't stand that little pipsqueak anyway. I also managed to get Magnus seriously bent out of shape in one play through--but he's another shorty.

I guess with all that said, Drog's idea of just breaking the quest and your connection with Jormund if you kill Wrath is still the best solution.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Considering the painting quest. The following changes will be made:
- You can no longer examine Rorry Limes' passport if it's not in your inventory.
- You can no longer deceive the half-ogre guarding the painting if you have not read the note.

I believe, this reflects Troika's original intentions. The goal of the UAP is to fix bugs and omissions without adding anything that has to be made up, so new lines (and various proposed checks) aren't really appropriate, at least in this case.

And one more thing, considering the required status of the delivery quest. I suppose it's plausible that once you deliver the note, Rorry Limes instructs the guard to not permit any strangers.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

A few notes on the upcoming version and the fate of the Extra Pack.

The new version will have everything sans the HQ Townmaps' Pack (since it's a big download) in just one installer. The installer will have support for optional components, and there will be the following components besides the main patch:

• Townmap Fixes
  Numerous townmap fixes in the original quality. This will be redundant if the HQ Townmaps' Pack is used.
• Extra Content
  This is currently based on the Extra Pack, but will be probably extended, to allow for more tweaks and content. This component will have its own page with the changelog and detailed descriptions of the changes.
• Original Bedokaan Model
  The original model (and portrait) for the lizard people. The same as the separate download that is available now.

This way the UAP will consist of just two downloads--the main installer and the HQ Townmaps' Pack. The 1024x768 patch will be probably discontinued, especially since I'm planning to go through the whole interface and make the patch that will support any resolution without extending/redrawing the UI the next year.

Speaking of the Extra Content component, I'd like to hear your ideas and suggestions. What would you like to see extended/tweaked/changed? The main goal of the component will be the same as of the Extra Pack - restoring cut-out content, completing something that was never finished (as opposed to the main patch, that restores omitted and forgotten things), however there will be room for new tweaks, as well. Things that make the game more coherent, things that you feel "should have been in the game from the beginning" will be included. Of course, entirely new additions that aren't related to anything in the game are out of the question. We're talking about fixing inconsistencies in the game, not adding new content, keep this in mind. Currently balance changes aren't planned as well.

Having said that, I'd like to hear what kind of fixes and tweaks you would like to see in the Extra Content module? What quests do you think are not logical or coherent? Are there any plot holes or inconsistencies? Maybe some quest solutions are hastily done or lacking? Perhaps, you consider some design choices flawed? Age tweaks, shop inventories, descriptions, random encounters, feel free to suggest anything. The tweaks that seem fitting and are liked by most people will be included in the module. No major changes, of course, just small tweaks that will make the game slightly better, little by little.

P.S. The new version will be released in around a week.

 

[Whispering Darkness]

Considering the painting quest. The following changes will be made:
- You can no longer examine Rorry Limes' passport if it's not in your inventory.
- You can no longer deceive the half-ogre guarding the painting if you have not read the note.

I believe, this reflects Troika's original intentions. The goal of the UAP is to fix bugs and omissions without adding anything that has to be made up, so new lines (and various proposed checks) aren't really appropriate, at least in this case.

And one more thing, considering the required status of the delivery quest. I suppose it's plausible that once you deliver the note, Rorry Limes instructs the guard to not permit any strangers.

Very good, this seems to be more logical overall. Makes the quest a bit more complex, as it should. Thank you Drog, good work.

EDIT: Just read your new post. This is very exciting indeed. You do Arcanum justice and make its fans proud. Tweeking quests to make them more full and an easier download... Everything. To think without your efforts, think of the state this game would be in. Easy to see by taking a half-glance at the change log, massive. Arcanum was awesome before the fixes but your work makes the game better than it was, period. I thank you for your dedication of a game that needed so much love, and I thank you on behalf of those who are unable.

Master of Arcanum

 

[Jaime Lannister]

I'm waiting on this super-mega-fun-pack or whatever to start replaying. You're that good Drog.

 

[Whispering Darkness]

Minor looping dialog. You talk to Captain Wheel, outside the factory that is housing the orc uprising, and sympathize with the orcs until he suggests you talk to Mr. Babcock, the gnome sympathizer. After speaking with Mr. Babcock and return to speak to Wheeler, Wheeler will explain to you the situation with the orcs, again. This does not make sense as Wheeler told you of the situation the first time you talked to him, but just did not tell you of his possible solutions because you sympathized with the orcs and he told you to speak with Mr. Babcock. My Character is an half-orc and has no skill in persuasion and does not have substantial charisma if that affects this.

I do not know if this is a bug or not. Capt. Wheeler gives you the quest to convince Donn Throgg to surrender and after talking to Mr. Throgg, you discover that it was a ruse by Capt. Wheeler to have Mr. Throgg come out, line 36. At this point, the quest becomes botched and Throgg refuses to come out and tells you to tell Wheeler that he is not coming out. Yet when you go out and talk to Wheeler, nothing. No new dialog, just a "Hi, bye" dialog is available. You cannot tell him of the message or anything.

You can keep asking Mr. Babcock "What is going on here", line 3, at the beginning of every dialog even after he has told you.

I do not know if this is intentional but when Donn Throgg surrenders and Capt. Wheeler and his boys open fire on Throgg, your companions attack Wheeler and his crew. Even if you convince Throgg to surrender was a ruse to have Throgg killed, that makes no sense to attack Wheeler.

 

[Cogar]

Spoilers follow.

Regarding the Orc uprising, the only way I've ever completed the quest was to talk with Babcock, who tells you that Wheeler wants to kill everyone like last time. This leaves you with the task of convincing Throgg to sneak out and form a union later (or turn total anarchist and try to burn Tarant to the ground). The point is, (as a human with reasonably high CH and persuasion), it is very easy to determine that Wheeler is a snake that cannot be trusted. Therefore, if Wheeler is essentially evil, it makes sense that a good aligned party would fight them.

 

[Whispering Darkness]

Spoilers follow.

Regarding the Orc uprising, the only way I've ever completed the quest was to talk with Babcock, who tells you that Wheeler wants to kill everyone like last time. This leaves you with the task of convincing Throgg to sneak out and form a union later (or turn total anarchist and try to burn Tarant to the ground). The point is, (as a human with reasonably high CH and persuasion), it is very easy to determine that Wheeler is a snake that cannot be trusted. Therefore, if Wheeler is essentially evil, it makes sense that a good aligned party would fight them.

Yes, that much can be surmised if you are a human with high charisma and persuasion. But if you are not... ... :wink: His motives can appear to be more innocent with just a bloody history. You can genuinely believe that you are to go in and convince Throgg to surrender with the assurance that media is outside so Throgg can expose Wheeler as the tyrant he is. Your response to Wheeler after you convince Throgg to surrender can be that of disgust or malice. You can even attack him or praise him after Throgg is dead through dialog. This is one of those quests that has alot of subtle context but not tested very thoroughly.

EDIT: After you speak with Edward Willoughsby, a gentlemen by the name of Heinrich Jenks speaks with you about assassinating King Farrad. Once you know of this, you can immediately say you are leaving and he attacks you on sight. After this happens, you can tell Willoughsby about the conspiracy but when Willoughsby inquires as to what you are talking about, your only dialog option is to end dialog without saying anything about the conspiracy. Normally you would tell Willoughsby about Jenks and Lorham makes quick work of him but there seems to be nothing to disclose to Willoughsby if you kill Jenks yourself. Just ending dialog.

Hieronymous Maxim has a error in his dialog. Line 171 says him when my character is female. My reaction is 40 and use dialog lines: 5, 161, 171.

EDIT: Fire Obstruction. If you toss one of these right next to someone who is not hostile towards you without actually hitting them with the bomb, you can kill them without them retaliating. You can run through Tarant and kill everyone, bombs permitting, without anyone having a care and even lowering your alignment. Just as long as when you toss the bomb it does not hit them. So, that is probably a bug.

 

[Shambelle]

Having said that, I'd like to hear what kind of fixes and tweaks you would like to see in the Extra Content module? What quests do you think are not logical or coherent? Are there any plot holes or inconsistencies? Maybe some quest solutions are hastily done or lacking? Perhaps, you consider some design choices flawed? Age tweaks, shop inventories, descriptions, random encounters, feel free to suggest anything. The tweaks that seem fitting and are liked by most people will be included in the module. No major changes, of course, just small tweaks that will make the game slightly better, little by little.

And what about a Fortifier which don't make your followers berserk when you use it on them ?

 

[Kavax]

Having said that, I'd like to hear what kind of fixes and tweaks you would like to see in the Extra Content module? What quests do you think are not logical or coherent? Are there any plot holes or inconsistencies? Maybe some quest solutions are hastily done or lacking? Perhaps, you consider some design choices flawed? Age tweaks, shop inventories, descriptions, random encounters, feel free to suggest anything. The tweaks that seem fitting and are liked by most people will be included in the module. No major changes, of course, just small tweaks that will make the game slightly better, little by little.

Well, the thieves' underground quests felt somewhat... lacking, maybe some of them should be reworked so that they use more features (Lighting, evading guard patrols, something like that)... It would be also great to have another NPC that told you about the Black Mountain clan if you have high charisma, persuasion, or intelligence, so that diplomatic characters don't have to go into the dungeon.

 

[wrhunter]

Speaking of logical, I felt a little unbelievable, when I saw the Elite Guards of Dernholm were wearing technological armor.

By the way, is it possible to reduce the Friendly Fire of ranged weapons? In real-time combat, it is deadly.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Hieronymous Maxim has a error in his dialog. Line 171 says him when my character is female. My reaction is 40 and use dialog lines: 5, 161, 171.

I don't see a problem. He doesn't address the PC specifically in that line.
"I suppose one can't hold another's illness against him. You are just as the gods have made you, eh?"

 

[atadadata]

WorldEd 1070

Long time player, first time poster. Thank you very much, Drog, for the patches. Are the udpates made with the UAP or Extras fully compatible if I downgrade to WorldEd 1070? Does it even matter?