The writing in this game is average

[sser]

There's also a great wrap-up for that child killer quest.

Thug: I'm a thug. I have a wounded leg. My name starts with a T. Like on that dagger. Also I'm a dick. Hi.
You 1: You fuck! I kill you!
You 2: You fuck! Give me money and I forget that you're a fuck. Here's your dagger.
You 3: Here's your dagger, nvm.

Not even a mention of childkilling, I think. What.

Did anyone else think the guy in the tavern whose name starts with a B, he limps on a wounded leg, and smirks when you ask about the leg... was actually the killer?

I slept with that fucker thinking it would get me alone with him to take him out.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Hey, I liked her. I think there was a spark growing. What's her name again?

Urmom

 

[Irenaeus]

Hey, I liked her. I think there was a spark growing. What's her name again?

Urmom

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69653-calisca-kalista-coincedence-or-inspiration/

 

[Athelas]

The original and undisputed:



Notice how she's somehow capable of casting the maximum of five magic missiles despite being level 1. Truly a terrible loss.

 

[leino]

... (endgame spoilarz)

Spoiler

So the writers of this game think this is supposed to be some very deep philosophical dilemma or what? A question that was answered 400 years ago by Motherfucker Descartes, AND YET HIS ANSWER IS NOT EVEN PRESENT IN THE CHOICES TO PICK?

ARE YOU SHITTING ME

also gotta love sudden endgame info dump to begin with

Seven different half-arsed responses to a question that was answered in the 17th century is an example of good writing?
Where is my cogito ergo sum, FFS

I think that would have been a pretty irrelevant reply, though. It doesn't assure you of anything meaningful in the sense that the question is about. Your existence, in some way, is already taken for granted by most of the options.

(The cogito is "Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum." at best, anyway. Also strangely anachronistic to expect your character to formulate it on the spot just because it permeates our popular thinking, as it may not have been given in the setting previously and by itself it answers the question only in the most pedantic way.)

I was a bit disappointed by the writing too, especially the way the plot seemed to flip on its axis at the end to accommodate muh philosophising, but I liked the options in this case.

 

[KK1001]

I think her point was less an epistemological one (whether anything can be known or not) but a metaethical one wrapped up in an existential one: without god(s), can we have objective morality, and what consequences does this have? Don't hold me on this but that was the general gist of the conversation.

This is actually a pretty lively debate in philosophical circles. The main debate (in the analytic tradition at least) comes down to error theorists of all varying stripes versus ethical intuitionists.

 

[leino]

I don't precisely remember the conversation either, but whether the question meant to include the larger epistemological matter or just that of justifying your values, cogito ergo sum would have been a trivial response to it.

 

[Seaking4]

The original and undisputed:



Notice how she's somehow capable of casting the maximum of five magic missiles despite being level 1. Truly a terrible loss.

God this was the worst fucking game ...

Anyways, player motivation after the end of act 1 is quite clear (Watcher going mad). Before then it seems to be more of a matter of interest. Which is perfectly fine. BG2 is either being a knight in shining armour or revenge. Especially since Irenicus' plan is for you to go to him. I don't see anything wrong with either of those.

 

[Angthoron]

What is wrong is the presentation of the Watcher going mad. It's not a motivator, it's an afterthought. "Oh, but we need a reason! Let's say Watcher is going mad in a couple of party dialogues and never do anything with it!". It never actually feels important, it's never detrimental.

That's the problem.

And does it actually get resolved at the end? Not really. I mean sure, the soul tie is broken but as far as I know, you're still Awakened, nobody told you to take a nap or shit. Maybe the gods fix it, idk, they literally are a deus ex machina so maybe.

 

[themadhatter11401]

But the madness not being a more long-term problem rather than imminent works better for the gameplay. It allows you to focus for a time on other problems. You are free to defeat the Master Below or take some bounties or help out some random people, because (1) you're not going crazy too quickly and (2) you're not actively chasing Thaos until Act 3. Doing sidequests feels like a real character freedom rather than a distraction from some imminent threat. The Hollowborn epidemic has been going on 15 years, and there are all sorts of people working to fix it. I don't think Maerwald went insane over night, and Aloth is dealing with his awakening just fine. The main quest will keep for a while.

 

[Angthoron]

There's no need for the madness device. At all. Hell, there's no need for the "past life" plot either. You can organically funnel the player to oppose Thaos. You can build up player's investment in the game world, the plight of the region (some conversations do this well), you can make the player begin to feel like they want to be part of the solution, or, in case the player char is evil, to be on the winning team, once you realize something's fishy.

It's just that the game introduces all these semi-important threads that are completely superfluous. The game could benefit from "less fat" on the main plot - it needs a more focused, but thin line, instead of multiple threads. A better writer could've pulled that off, sure, but we have what we have.

 

[Rivmusique]

There's also a great wrap-up for that child killer quest.

Thug: I'm a thug. I have a wounded leg. My name starts with a T. Like on that dagger. Also I'm a dick. Hi.
You 1: You fuck! I kill you!
You 2: You fuck! Give me money and I forget that you're a fuck. Here's your dagger.
You 3: Here's your dagger, nvm.

Not even a mention of childkilling, I think. What.

Did anyone else think the guy in the tavern whose name starts with a B, he limps on a wounded leg, and smirks when you ask about the leg... was actually the killer?

I slept with that fucker thinking it would get me alone with him to take him out.

It ain't a wounded leg that's causing that limp, mate. .

 

[Angthoron]

There's also a great wrap-up for that child killer quest.

Thug: I'm a thug. I have a wounded leg. My name starts with a T. Like on that dagger. Also I'm a dick. Hi.
You 1: You fuck! I kill you!
You 2: You fuck! Give me money and I forget that you're a fuck. Here's your dagger.
You 3: Here's your dagger, nvm.

Not even a mention of childkilling, I think. What.

Did anyone else think the guy in the tavern whose name starts with a B, he limps on a wounded leg, and smirks when you ask about the leg... was actually the killer?

I slept with that fucker thinking it would get me alone with him to take him out.

It ain't a wounded leg that's causing that limp, mate. .

In fact, that isn't a leg at all

 

[Ninjerk]

There's no need for the madness device. At all. Hell, there's no need for the "past life" plot either. You can organically funnel the player to oppose Thaos. You can build up player's investment in the game world, the plight of the region (some conversations do this well), you can make the player begin to feel like they want to be part of the solution, or, in case the player char is evil, to be on the winning team, once you realize something's fishy.

It's just that the game introduces all these semi-important threads that are completely superfluous. The game could benefit from "less fat" on the main plot - it needs a more focused, but thin line, instead of multiple threads. A better writer could've pulled that off, sure, but we have what we have.

I half-expect I missed the scene in the game where he kicks a dog, too.

 

[Irenaeus]

There's no need for the madness device. At all. Hell, there's no need for the "past life" plot either. You can organically funnel the player to oppose Thaos. You can build up player's investment in the game world, the plight of the region (some conversations do this well), you can make the player begin to feel like they want to be part of the solution, or, in case the player char is evil, to be on the winning team, once you realize something's fishy.

It's just that the game introduces all these semi-important threads that are completely superfluous. The game could benefit from "less fat" on the main plot - it needs a more focused, but thin line, instead of multiple threads. A better writer could've pulled that off, sure, but we have what we have.

I half-expect I missed the scene in the game where he kicks a dog, too.

Lady Webb tells us he's a dangerous man and up to no good. I believe Lady Webb.

 

[AN4RCHID]

I cleared out all those traps in Cilanth Lis to let Calisca leave and Thaos killed her in the yard outside

 

[Hobo Elf]

I think PoE suffers from too many cucks cooks. Just look at this list: Eric Fenstermaker, Chris Avellone, Carrie Patel, Matt McLean, Josh Sawyer, George Ziets. The writing becomes diluted and inconsistent when you have a bunch of guys doing the job that should belong to one, maybe two people. You lose the strong, coherent and thematic string that flows through the narrative that is weaved by a person with a single vision. When you have a room full of egos who all have their own visions and ideas about the game you start playing the compromise game, and when everyone is promised a slice of the story pie you're gonna have to start shaving a bunch of good ideas to make room for someone elses idea, which may or may not flow well with what you've thought up of. Who gains from this? Not us, the players. I'm sure the PR department loves it, though.

 

[Crooked Bee]

^ Most of those weren't really involved on the day-to-day writing basis, though.

 

[Hobo Elf]

^ Most of those weren't really involved on the day-to-day writing basis, though.

I know some of them had lesser roles and bigger roles, like MCA only did the two companions. I also heard that most of Ziets' ideas were scrapped (true/false?). But if we look at it at a meso-level and concentrate on the companions as a whole, it's pretty embarrassing how crappy they are. They shouldn't have one writer per companion. They should have one perosn who's good at them, like MCA. I didn't think Durance or the Grieving Mother were particularly good either, but they were still well above the banality that the other companions offered. Meh, just compare the writer credits to PST: Chris Avellone and Colin McComb. You don't need 6 cooks to make one soup.

 

[KK1001]

At its core, I think the game has a pretty strong and consistent theme. Essentially you and your companions are searching for answers, and what you find out is that the answers are unknowable, don't matter, or are unsatisfactory.

That's a solid theme to build on, and I think most of the sub-themes or plots touch on it in some way (the whole religion (Dozens) vs science (animancers) debate is about answers and what to do when you get or don't get them). Thaos is concerned that the world will descend into chaos if people discover the truth about the man-made nature of the gods.

However, how this is spelled out in practice is where the game runs into a little bit of trouble. The devil is in the details, after all, and there were too many lore dumps too fast. The player also gets an answer to what is causing the Legacy early on, so the writing contorts itself to get you to care about your past life. My eyes glazed over every time I had to read another soul-flashback.

Essentially the game failed to deliver the meat of storytelling: the little details that ground larger themes and make you actually care about the world.

 

[Athelas]

I know some of them had lesser roles and bigger roles, like MCA only did the two companions. I also heard that most of Ziets' ideas were scrapped (true/false?). But if we look at it at a meso-level and concentrate on the companions as a whole, it's pretty embarrassing how crappy they are. They shouldn't have one writer per companion. They should have one perosn who's good at them, like MCA. I didn't think Durance or the Grieving Mother were particularly good either, but they were still well above the banality that the other companions offered. Meh, just compare the writer credits to PST: Chris Avellone and Colin McComb. You don't need 6 cooks to make one soup.

Uhm, you realize it's next to impossible for a single person or even two people to single-handedly author a big sprawling RPG? PS:T is fairly unique in that MCA did write all the companions and critical characters like Ravel, Deionarra and the Transcendent One...but it apparently also caused him serious health issues.

PS:T had more than two writers, by the way.

 

[Crooked Bee]

PoE also has just two main writers, iirc. The rest just edited stuff or contributed something relatively minor.

 

[KK1001]

I know some of them had lesser roles and bigger roles, like MCA only did the two companions. I also heard that most of Ziets' ideas were scrapped (true/false?). But if we look at it at a meso-level and concentrate on the companions as a whole, it's pretty embarrassing how crappy they are. They shouldn't have one writer per companion. They should have one perosn who's good at them, like MCA. I didn't think Durance or the Grieving Mother were particularly good either, but they were still well above the banality that the other companions offered. Meh, just compare the writer credits to PST: Chris Avellone and Colin McComb. You don't need 6 cooks to make one soup.

McComb is doing over half of the companions in Torment. Rothfuss and Avellone are doing one each, and I guess someone else is doing the last one if McComb is doing 5 instead of 6.

 

[Rake]

I know some of them had lesser roles and bigger roles, like MCA only did the two companions. I also heard that most of Ziets' ideas were scrapped (true/false?). But if we look at it at a meso-level and concentrate on the companions as a whole, it's pretty embarrassing how crappy they are. They shouldn't have one writer per companion. They should have one perosn who's good at them, like MCA. I didn't think Durance or the Grieving Mother were particularly good either, but they were still well above the banality that the other companions offered. Meh, just compare the writer credits to PST: Chris Avellone and Colin McComb. You don't need 6 cooks to make one soup.

Uhm, you realize it's next to impossible for a single person or even two people to single-handedly author a big sprawling RPG? PS:T is fairly unique in that MCA did write all the companions and critical characters like Ravel, Deionarra and the Transcendent One...but it apparently also caused him serious health issues.

PS:T had more than two writers, by the way.

I don't thnk he meant that a single person has to write everything. A single person should decide the story,themes, plot, and design the companions. Design, not writing every line of dialogue himself. But defining their arc, character, motivations etc.

 

[Athelas]

I know some of them had lesser roles and bigger roles, like MCA only did the two companions. I also heard that most of Ziets' ideas were scrapped (true/false?). But if we look at it at a meso-level and concentrate on the companions as a whole, it's pretty embarrassing how crappy they are. They shouldn't have one writer per companion. They should have one perosn who's good at them, like MCA. I didn't think Durance or the Grieving Mother were particularly good either, but they were still well above the banality that the other companions offered. Meh, just compare the writer credits to PST: Chris Avellone and Colin McComb. You don't need 6 cooks to make one soup.

Uhm, you realize it's next to impossible for a single person or even two people to single-handedly author a big sprawling RPG? PS:T is fairly unique in that MCA did write all the companions and critical characters like Ravel, Deionarra and the Transcendent One...but it apparently also caused him serious health issues.

PS:T had more than two writers, by the way.

I don't thnk he meant that a single person has to write everything. A single person should decide the story,themes, plot, and design the companions. Design, not writing every line of dialogue himself. But defining their arc, character, motivations etc.

You should probably read what he actually posted:

I think PoE suffers from too many cucks cooks. Just look at this list: Eric Fenstermaker, Chris Avellone, Carrie Patel, Matt McLean, Josh Sawyer, George Ziets. The writing becomes diluted and inconsistent when you have a bunch of guys doing the job that should belong to one, maybe two people.

Some of these people weren't even employed by Obsidian for the majority of the writing process (Patel, Ziets).