Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[Lonely Vazdru]

Terror (which early gadget even gives that?): I don't use stuff that makes the enemies run away.

Jack in the box = Hinged box + Doll (both found early on).
I didn't use "stuff that makes the ennemy run away" either but playing on expert difficulty made me change my habbits. By the time the scared ennemies come back after the fear wears off you have barely finished those that stayed. I also spam (and I mean spam) blindness which also makes the ennemies run away most of the time. I never had to do this on normal difficulty setting.
As for the Bard vs Gadgeteer discussion, I'm more of a gadgeteer person myself but the usefulness of one or the other depends a lot on which places you go first and what instruments and gadgets you acquire. Ability to make the double and triple crossbow also enters the equation, it really makes your ranger more powerful (if you have one in your party of course).
In the end both classes are balanced and I don't think one really outshines the other. You guys are letting your emotions do the math instead of your rational munchkining brain.

 

[Shannow]

In the end both classes are balanced and I don't think one really outshines the other. You guys are letting your emotions do the math instead of your rational munchkining brain.

"Guys"? I only see one who claims that one is far weaker than the other... Pretty much everybody else says they're both good (as are all the other classes, too).

 

[DraQ]

Oh, and what's with all the bard love in this thread? Weakest and most boring class imo. I'd always pick gadgeteer ahead of him as he is basically the same, only better. Opens locks, disarms traps, his magic-substitute - gadgets are better than instruments and omnigun is a cool weapon that levels together with its owner.

Weak? I'd accept boring, but weak?
Gadgeteer at lvl 11-12: Omnigun can shoot different kinds of ammo but does only 2-6 dmg with the basic stuff. Has a chance of blinding and k.o., fires 3-4 times per round. Has two gadgets, causing fireblast or noxious fumes.

What about lava lamp cating the single most tactical spell in game? You can also get heal all gadget as soon as you can move around the area containing its main component (tackling the witch queen with her entourage is not necessary if you just want to pick the stone up). Later on your selection of gadgets will be complemented with stuff like microwave blaster, water cannon, strobe lamp, negat-air, and so on. Besides, spamming noxious fumes is not what I'd call weak either.
And why the fuck would anyone want to shoot basic stuff out of their omnigun? Omnigun should fire whatever the best relatively abundant ammo is ATM, in full auto, while inflicting multiple status effects on the enemy. If you want, you can carry another modern weapon for sniping purposes - no one will shoot it nearly as well.
Plus, you can build stuff like double and triple shot crossbows for the entire party without having to bother with dragging cute ADHD afflicted Trynnies around and levelling them up.

but has more skill points to waste at level-ups

Nope, unless you severely restrict your bard's versatility which is arguably the whole point of this class.

 

[Cenobyte]

Plus, you can build stuff like double and triple shot crossbows for the entire party without having to bother with dragging cute ADHD afflicted Trynnies around and levelling them up.

But it should be noted that those Trynnies can be damn funny, especially if you are new to the game. Depending on my group (whether I have made a gadgeteer or a bard), I often hire the Trynnie gadgeteer or the Umpani bard as a supporting character later on. Even though, in all fairness, the Umpani bard has more use in vanilla Wiz 8.

 

[DraQ]

Plus, you can build stuff like double and triple shot crossbows for the entire party without having to bother with dragging cute ADHD afflicted Trynnies around and levelling them up.

But it should be noted that those Trynnies can be damn funny, especially if you are new to the game. Depending on my group (whether I have made a gadgeteer or a bard), I often hire the Trynnie gadgeteer or the Umpani bard as a supporting character later on. Even though, in all fairness, the Umpani bard has more use in vanilla Wiz 8.

Madras is pretty nice and amusing character, sure, especially compared with fucking Sparkle, but he doesn't go everywhere and might just happen to not fit with your party composition, whereas your own gadgeteer should be able to make doubleshots long before Trynton.

 

[Cenobyte]

Yeah sure, but nonetheless the Trynnies are a nice addition to the game. At least that's my humble opinion on this matter

 

[DraQ]

Yeah sure, but nonetheless the Trynnies are a nice addition to the game. At least that's my humble opinion on this matter

I won't dispute that, but will instead wait for some furshocked codexite to go all in this thread providing me with some easy lulz.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

I'm more scared of the name than anything.

 

[hoverdog]

[insert obvious tranny joke]

 

[DraQ]

I'm more scared of the name than anything.

Can't.... unseee...

 

[Grunker]

So guise... Am I doing this right? I don't think I've gotten a single real main quest yet, I'm just trudging from area to area, killing stuff for great justice. Haven't found many items or NPC-dudes either. Only the Vi and Myles, which are currently on my team, but even Myles can't pick the damned locks I want him to. I don't need a compas, just some outlines on WTF I'm supposed to be doing.

Actually, I have this one quest where I'm supposed to kill stuff in Trynnie-town, but I think the vines that'll enable me to cross the bridge are further down, and there's no way in hell I'm going down a level, pick up the vines, go up, kill the thingies, and go down again.

So thus far, combat is a struggle because of mostly standard items, and Myles who can't pull his own wait for shit. It's still pretty fun though, and the variety of enemies is grand. But fucking fuck dammit I'm not looked forward till the time I have to travel back down from Trynnie-town.

 

[DraQ]

So guise... Am I doing this right? I don't think I've gotten a single real main quest yet, I'm just trudging from area to area, killing stuff for great justice. Haven't found many items or NPC-dudes either. Only the Vi and Myles, which are currently on my team, but even Myles can't pick the damned locks I want him to. I don't need a compas, just some outlines on WTF I'm supposed to be doing.

You've seen the intro, and suffered exposition from Aletheides back in the monastery. You also have dialogue window with ability to type in arbitrary keywords. What the fuck else do you need?

Actually, I have this one quest where I'm supposed to kill stuff in Trynnie-town, but I think the vines that'll enable me to cross the bridge are further down, and there's no way in hell I'm going down a level, pick up the vines, go up, kill the thingies, and go down again.

Then you'd better learn to fly, because the bridge won't cross itself.

 

[Grunker]

As for your first point, you actually think that some narration would hurt? I'm not saying "this should be more like Bloodlines" for christ sakes, I'm just pondering. Lay off the aggressiveness Draco.

As for the second one - I c wut u did thar. Since I've been accused thrice in this thread for wanting simplifications I'm going to make this 100% fucking abundandtly clear:

No, I'm not pushing for dumbing down. I'm saying that, for example, the slow walk speed isn't exactly doing wonders coupled with the game's lack of info. I had no way to know I should look for vines - result: I have to do nothing for half an hour of game time.

Now don't tell me: "Suck it up, this is oldschool," 'cause you already know what you need to look for, so on each of your playthroughs, you can do everything in order. I don't, so I can't, which leads to these problems.

I am not pushing for simplification or the elimination of any individual thinking from the player's hand; but no info at all will lead to tedium, especially when some puzzles are "the purple stone goes on the green alter" and there isn't a reason besides that. Simple as. This is a good game, and I'm here to discuss it. If you only want to yell fanboisms at me then just stay the fuck away.

Claiming that walking down/up/down because you overlooked something is good game design is akin to saying true roleplaying in Oblivion is avoiding the use of the fast-travel system.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Glad to see some people still have their sanity.

False. Go boot up a game right now and check. I just now DID and they start at level 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1UOHPaCPwQ

lulz

 

[DraQ]

As for your first point, you actually think that some narration would hurt? I'm not saying "this should be more like Bloodlines" for christ sakes, I'm just pondering. Lay off the aggressiveness Draco.

This game is a dungeon crawl. I'm not saying that more narration or more plot or less lulzy setting or whatever would hurt it. I'm saying that it provides you with all the info you need, and demanding more is unreasonable, especially given the focus of the game. Complaining about it just indicates that the point of the game has been missed, in the same way complaining about lack of dialogue in Diablo would.

No, I'm not pushing for dumbing down. I'm saying that, for example, the slow walk speed isn't exactly doing wonders coupled with the game's lack of info. I had no way to know I should look for vines - result: I have to do nothing for half an hour of game time.

You can run pretty fast by holding the shift key. I don't see how the wines are a problem, first, backtracking is kind of typical when there are environmental puzzles involved, whether they occur in an adventure or an RPG, second, if you explored, you'd have found the vines beforehand, like I did on my first playthrough.

I am not pushing for simplification or the elimination of any individual thinking from the player's hand; but no info at all will lead to tedium, especially when some puzzles are "the purple stone goes on the green alter" and there isn't a reason besides that.

You have all the info you need and I haven't noticed a single puzzle like you describe. If you did, be more specific and provide an example.

Claiming that walking down/up/down because you overlooked something is good game design

If *you* overlooked something *you* are not in position to bitch about it because it's *your* fault. No one else's.
When I was a little kid I used to rage and blame inanimate objects when I walked into them. Fortunately I have long since grown up. You?


tl;dr
Stop whining already.

 

[dr. one]

eh, i guess it´s relatively easy to miss those vines since they´re not quite standard pickuppable items.
plus Trynton may as well be the most bothersome area when it comes to getting from point A to point B because most of combat is unavoidable and those trynnie helpers don´t exactly help with making combat go faster.

So guise... Am I doing this right? I don't think I've gotten a single real main quest yet, I'm just trudging from area to area, killing stuff for great justice. Haven't found many items or NPC-dudes either. Only the Vi and Myles, which are currently on my team, but even Myles can't pick the damned locks I want him to. I don't need a compas, just some outlines on WTF I'm supposed to be doing.

you just need to be active in dialogues. npcs serve some main plot points on a plate, but especially when it comes to details, some of whose are pretty much necessary to proceed, you need to get them via further conversing. converse more thoroughly, i bet you´ve missed some pointers in Arnika, for example. asking for rumors is always a good idea.
definitely don´t underestimate exploration, both area- and dialogue-wise.
personally, i think the game does brilliant job with story presentation in such an open ended environment.
btw, you know the game has a journal, right? it´s sparse, but you should have some pointers in there already.

as for traveling in general, once your spellcasters get set/return to portal spell, traversing the game world becomes much easier, especially if you set one of your portals in a certain location which really begs for it.
until then, Chameleon is your best friend.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I remember having such a hard time the first time I played getting across that bridge. I wonder if you can ask NPC's for help regarding that. I never did, but eventually figured it out after looking around ALOT!

 

[made]

Chameleon is your best friend.

Does that spell actually do anything? I noticed no difference with it on, and I tried to dodge fights a lot in the game.

 

[Grunker]

@dr. one: Thanks. Don't have the chameleon spell, what does it do?

If *you* overlooked something *you* are not in position to bitch about it because it's *your* fault. No one else's.
When I was a little kid I used to rage and blame inanimate objects when I walked into them. Fortunately I have long since grown up. You?

Bullshit, as Volourn would say. So it's a good game mechanic to have a point in your game where you go: "HAHA! You should have guessed this! Yes, we did not leave a single trail or hint that you should look for it, but nevertheless, it is your own fault that you didn't notice this totally random thing we were going to have you do later!"

Fuck you, the rest of your arguments might have actual points, but this stupidity reeks of fanboi.

 

[DraQ]

@dr. one: Thanks. Don't have the chameleon spell, what does it do?

Makes party harder to notice. I've never used it much.

So it's a good game mechanic to have a point in your game where you go: "HAHA! You should have guessed this! Yes, we did not leave a single trail or hint that you should look for it, but nevertheless, it is your own fault that you didn't notice this totally random thing we were going to have you do later!"

Yes, if you would have walked into it if you paid nominal attention to your surroundings. It's not that several puzzles in Wizardry haven't stumped me for quite a while, it's just that I recognize that they shouldn't have.

Fuck you, the rest of your arguments might have actual points, but this stupidity reeks of fanboi.

So, being able to admit it when you screw up makes you a fanboi now?

 

[Darth Roxor]

I picked up the vines the moment I saw them.

But I guess not everyone can be elite

 

[Cenobyte]

Actually, I have this one quest where I'm supposed to kill stuff in Trynnie-town, but I think the vines that'll enable me to cross the bridge are further down, and there's no way in hell I'm going down a level, pick up the vines, go up, kill the thingies, and go down again.

Have you ever played Wizardry 7 or any other real dungeon crawler for that matter? Against those, Wizardry 8 is almost harmless in the puzzle department

Okay, but back to topic: In typical dungeon crawlers, there are a couple of things you NEED to remember, if you want to succeed.

First, most puzzles can be solved by thinking, combining and some trial'n'error. You have already guessed that you need those vines, and now the second logical step is to remind where you have seen vines in the gameworld. Go there and you'll find your vines. The same thing applies to many other riddles as well.

Secondly, backtracking IS important and in some cases even necessary, especially if you want to get access to all secret rooms.

Thirdly, always make sure to thoroughly examine all areas you travel through. You'll find lots of hidden stuff (if you don't have a ranger with auto-search), items required for the solution of puzzles and important hints through this.

 

[DraQ]

Additionally, how the fuck is backtracking a bad thing? The alternative would be providing all items where they are needed, which in turn would allow player to infer where given item will be needed, shut down his brain, sit down and just roll along the rail on his balls.

Yes, it would be quite an incline.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Grunker I hope you've learned the valuable lesson that you are an unworthy peon and you're not elite enough to like our games go be non-elite somewhere else stupid popamole retard with your "level head" and "civilised behaviour" shit

 

[made]

Well, the game doesn't really encourage exploration and backtracking what with the tons of trash encounters it throws at you. Trynton was particularly bad and I hated it whenever I had to go back there. Tight corridors so no escape from random plant pack + bunnymen patrol blocking the way = set combat to RT and go afk for 10 mins.

I finished my first Wiz8 playthrough only a couple days ago, and for the better part of the game I kept thinking how awesome it would be if there were less, but more challenging encounters. Thankfully, AP was a redeeming factor and a rude awakening after all the boring grind beforehand.