The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

[Makabb]

Teh future, this will be gud

 

[YldriE]

console gamers have shown they're fine with 30fps and prettier graphics sell games. I feel like the last two generations people said the same thing, "this time 60fps will be standard!" Yet it never actually happens. I hope it happens though, I think it would be great for console gamers and once it became the norm there would be no going back. With PC gamers aiming for 144fps it's crazy most console games still release at 30 and even struggle to maintain that sometimes. Customers deserve better. Like I said though... I'm pessimistic about it. We'll see.

That's the main rebuttal to people claiming consoles to be a cost-effective gaming platform. They really aren't.

First the comparison is often dishonest because they compare the cost of a console vs the cost of a PC. What you should be comparing is the cost of a PC vs the cost of a console + the cost of the non-gaming PC you are almost certainly going to get anyway. Second the "console graphics" are typically 30FPS because promotional screenshots sell games, not 144Hz LEGO Call of Duty. It's a compromise I wouldn't make, but console players are willing to make it, so let's use that as a starting point.

I work in a computer shop and people who don't use their computer as a gaming platform are still fine spending like 500 dollars for it. I think that's way too much (my own backup computer is a fucking $90 Chuwi Hi10) so let's shave off 150 dollars. That's 500 + 350 if you want to compare with the Xbox One X.

850 dollars? That's largely enough to build a computer that will output Xbox One X-tier graphics at 30FPS, except you have the freedom to go for 60FPS if you so wish (a 850-dollar computer might not even need to compromise visuals all that much for that), and that's before we get into other cost factors: games are much more expensive on consoles, when you upgrade your console you cannot keep your old games and accessories, online services require an additional monthly cost, etc.

Gaming on a console is really fucking expensive, and the argument that a PC needs to be prohibitively expensive to output similar visuals is false. The console market is built on convenience (declining but still arguably true) and brand loyalty.

 

[DalekFlay]

Yeah, not to mention many console gamers buy multiple consoles for exclusives. I'm sure there are many situations where it's cheaper, like if your parents bought you a college laptop or whatever, but I really do think in the end it's more about culture. You grew up PC gaming or have interest in the PC's benefits, or you grew up console gaming or are more focused on convenience and playing with more casual friends.

 

[Gerrard]

Teh future, this will be gud

I sure love me some incredible new technology from 12 years ago

 

[sullynathan]

First the comparison is often dishonest because they compare the cost of a console vs the cost of a PC. What you should be comparing is the cost of a PC vs the cost of a console + the cost of the non-gaming PC you are almost certainly going to get anyway. Second the "console graphics" are typically 30FPS because promotional screenshots sell games, not 144Hz LEGO Call of Duty. It's a compromise I wouldn't make, but console players are willing to make it, so let's use that as a starting point.

I work in a computer shop and people who don't use their computer as a gaming platform are still fine spending like 500 dollars for it. I think that's way too much (my own backup computer is a fucking $90 Chuwi Hi10) so let's shave off 150 dollars. That's 500 + 350 if you want to compare with the Xbox One X.

What an odd comparison. Why are you even assuming that someone buying a new console is also buying a new PC. Is there some statistic to follow this? Will said console owner throw away the pc they already own?

games are much more expensive on consoles, when you upgrade your console you cannot keep your old games and accessories

This is wrong, why does it keep getting repeated?

We'll stick with your Xbawks as an example because you brought it up. You can play half of every Xbawks 360 game, and a few original Xbawks games released on the Xbone right now, and you can play all of the aformentioned games on the upcoming Xbawks next year. PS5 will play all PS4 games.

The only accessories that usually get changed between consoles are controllers, which every new Console box comes with a new one. You can still use your mic, keyboard, etc. and the Xbawks will still allow you to use your same controller from this generation. Nintendo has allowed you to use controllers from Gamecube to their later generations.

 

[YldriE]

No denying that there have been steps in the right direction. For the shit they got (including here), the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X finally did the right thing: the exact same except more powerful, so you keep everything except you get better framerate and visuals.

I really, really cannot follow you on the retro-compatibility department, there is too much uncertainty each time. Only a limited number of Xbox games could be played on Xbox 360 and even less on Xbox One, and as you say "half' the Xbox 360 library might be usable on Xbox One. Better hope the games you want happen to be on the list, and if they are, odds are one specific game will be, but not the sequels. That's the price of no native compatibility, which is fair enough, hardware needs to move on... but then game-specific patches are a terible alternative to an all-around emulator.

 

[sullynathan]

I really, really cannot follow you on the retro-compatibility department, there is too much uncertainty each time. Only a limited number of Xbox games could be played on Xbox 360 and even less on Xbox One, and as you say "half' the Xbox 360 library might be usable on Xbox One. Better hope the games you want happen to be on the list, and if they are, odds are one specific game will be, but not the sequels. That's the price of no native compatibility, which is fair enough, hardware needs to move on... but then game-specific patches are a terible alternative to an all-around emulator.

You must not have been following up with the BC of Xbox then. All the 500+ games made available to be played on Xbone & next xbox are fully compatible, with saves and all. While it's true that it's not perfect nor is it every game, it's far better than nothing and your average gamer doesn't even play games older than 3 years old.

 

[Shinji]

Hopefully developers won't be limited by a weak APU next gen.
You take a game like Just Cause 3 and you realize how limited they were by the consoles' lack of processing power for physics calculations.

I think it makes more sense to use an APU for a portable console like the Switch, which has a battery, but for consoles I hope they pick a CPU+GPU combination -- like they used to do in past gens.

 

[DalekFlay]

What an odd comparison. Why are you even assuming that someone buying a new console is also buying a new PC. Is there some statistic to follow this? Will said console owner throw away the pc they already own?

People generally need a PC of some kind, probably not a desktop much anymore but a laptop or tablet? Yes. And would you have to upgrade said laptop or tablet at least as often as you do a console? Also yes. It's not an odd comparison at all really.

This is wrong, why does it keep getting repeated?

You mentioned some nice exceptions, but he's not wrong that the majority of times over however many console generations there's been the new ones were not backwards compatible. Playstation 4 was not backwards compatible with Playstation 3. Switch isn't with Wii. Xbox 360 originally was not, added it later and only for select titles. The PC letting you play almost every game ever released on it with a modern machine (and looking better than ever) is indeed a feather in the PC's cap. Not to mention you have to buy 3 consoles to play every "console game" but need only one PC.

I don't think his general point is wrong, that the price difference isn't as big as people act like it is. It's more about what you know and convenience.

 

[sullynathan]

You mentioned some nice exceptions, but he's not wrong that the majority of times over however many console generations there's been the new ones were not backwards compatible. Playstation 4 was not backwards compatible with Playstation 3. Switch isn't with Wii. Xbox 360 originally was not, added it later and only for select titles. The PC letting you play almost every game ever released on it with a modern machine (and looking better than ever) is indeed a feather in the PC's cap. Not to mention you have to buy 3 consoles to play every "console game" but need only one PC.

I don't think his general point is wrong, that the price difference isn't as big as people act like it is. It's more about what you know and convenience.

You need one console to play console games because the overwhelming majority of console games (& PC Games) are multiplatform.

You shouldn't lose sleep because you can't play the next zelda game because you bought an Xbawks.

PS4 has streaming to allow you to play PS3 games and transfer your saves. It's not the best solution but it exists.

For the average pc and console gamer, who doesn't play games older than 2 - 3 years, backwards compatibility and older games is a moot point.

People generally need a PC of some kind, probably not a desktop much anymore but a laptop or tablet? Yes. And would you have to upgrade said laptop or tablet at least as often as you do a console? Also yes. It's not an odd comparison at all really.

What is the correlation with upgrading or buying a pc for non video game usage and buying a next gen console? Why the hell is this being factored in as a price of console gaming?

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Who cares about 60 fps? I still clearly remember when I was playing old Doom on a Intel 486 PC at 10 fps 320x200... 30 fps is just perfect to me.
Recently I bought a new PC with a rtx2080 card (the previous PC was about 10 years old), and whatever I can I set a 30 fps cap just to have the GPU fan completely silent. Not that at 60 fps the fan is particularly loud, but the difference between 30 and 60 fps is such a small improvement...

 

[Nifft Batuff]

So, the PS2 design still wins...

 

[Makabb]

The PS5 will have to be big..... those GPUs of today are huge, and the heat needs to get out

 

[DalekFlay]

You need one console to play console games because the overwhelming majority of console games (& PC Games) are multiplatform.

You shouldn't lose sleep because you can't play the next zelda game because you bought an Xbawks.

I sure don't, because I don't even play console games, but some people do. Are you denying a fair bit of console gamers own more than one console?

What is the correlation with upgrading or buying a pc for non video game usage and buying a next gen console? Why the hell is this being factored in as a price of console gaming?

This really isn't that complicated. Most people need some kind of computer device, other than a phone, for certain tasks. If you have a gaming PC, you've got your device. If you don't, and say do all your gaming on a $400 PS4, you then also have to buy said computer device, be it a $300 Best Buy laptop or something else. So in effect you need to spend $700 to get the equivalent of a gaming PC, not just $400. I'm sure there are many exceptions like teens whose parents buy said computer device or people who literally have no need of one, but in the majority of cases I'm sure this bears out.

 

[Makabb]

700$ gaming PC? That's the cost of the GPU alone today.

 

[DalekFlay]

700$ gaming PC? That's the cost of the GPU alone today.

Didn't say the PC would cost $700, try and keep up.

 

[The Decline]

700$ gaming PC? That's the cost of the GPU alone today.

A $700 gaming pc can play Fortnite and Minecraft easily.

 

[DalekFlay]

The point is the financial gap isn't as big as some say, once you add an office type computer and possibly other consoles/subscriptions to the console price. The point is not that you can build a gaming PC for the same price, in most cases you cannot (with similar performance, anyway).

 

[Makabb]

700$ gaming PC? That's the cost of the GPU alone today.

A $700 gaming pc can play Fortnite and Minecraft easily.

paying 700$ to play fortnite and minecraft, gg

 

[Morgoth]

Can you remove games from inventory on a console? No? End of discussion!

 

[The Decline]

700$ gaming PC? That's the cost of the GPU alone today.

A $700 gaming pc can play Fortnite and Minecraft easily.

paying 700$ to play fortnite and minecraft, gg

It's easier to convince your parents to buy parts for building a $700-1000 pc that you would use for school/web shit and games instead of a gaming console.

Honestly there's something going on, because I'm seeing a lot of zoomers building gaming computers now. And it's being pushed by the kids themselves, the parents come in and say they've never built a pc before.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Honestly there's something going on, because I'm seeing a lot of zoomers building gaming computers now. And it's being pushed by the kids themselves, the parents come in and say they've never built a pc before.

Really? This is very interesting. Maybe there is still hope for the human race.

 

[sullynathan]

I sure don't, because I don't even play console games, but some people do. Are you denying a fair bit of console gamers own more than one console?

Yes, it's far more likely people own a computer, phone and console in the U.S. than owning two consoles.

This really isn't that complicated. Most people need some kind of computer device, other than a phone, for certain tasks. If you have a gaming PC, you've got your device. If you don't, and say do all your gaming on a $400 PS4, you then also have to buy said computer device, be it a $300 Best Buy laptop or something else. So in effect you need to spend $700 to get the equivalent of a gaming PC, not just $400. I'm sure there are many exceptions like teens whose parents buy said computer device or people who literally have no need of one, but in the majority of cases I'm sure this bears out.

Needing some computing device doesn't necessitate having a console. There's no data saying console gamers buy a computer at the same time as they buy a console, every time they buy a new console.

 

[Garbage]

Is Sony really going to release a PS5 before the PS4 gets a third game worth getting?
My Bloodborne/Gravity Rush 2 machine has been collecting dust for a while now...

 

[The Decline]

Honestly there's something going on, because I'm seeing a lot of zoomers building gaming computers now. And it's being pushed by the kids themselves, the parents come in and say they've never built a pc before.

Really? This is very interesting. Maybe there is still hope for the human race.

I wouldn't put that much hope into it. It seems obvious on reflection, but I'm now sure that this is because kids these days want to be live streamers.