The New DOOM Thread (2016)

[Epsilon]

SE is to FE what Doom 2 is to Doom 1, an improvement in every way.

In what did Doom 2 improve Doom 1? Besides count of teleport traps and monster closets.

Super Shotgun.

 

[Carrion]

Super Shotgun.

The original shotgun is still the more satisfying of the two.

Serious Sam was basically a foreign indie game that wanted to be Doom but couldn't.

The gaming media labelled it as such because they were morons as usual. Criticizing Serious Sam for not following some classic formula is missing the point entirely, because it never wanted to be Doom and was pretty much antithetical to Doom-era shooters in its design. It never tried to hide it either.

Probably the easiest way to "understand" Serious Sam is to turn the difficulty all the way up to Serious and start a co-op game with a friend on the same computer, where you can see all the cool things about the arena design and none of its flaws. It plays nothing like Doom but is quite simply fun as hell (and totally brainless), and I doubt it'd be improved even if you went back in time to 1993 and brought back John Romero to redesign all the levels. I can understand someone eventually getting bored with the single player, though, as especially towards the end of the game the pacing starts to kind of suck because the game just keeps throwing these more and more outrageous arenas at you with nothing in between, whereas the early levels at least have the occasional cramped indoor area or small-scale fight to spice things up a bit. The Second Encounter manges to stay a bit more interesting thanks to the changes of scenery.

Serious Sam didn't have much in the way of level design, but it did have some very good encounter design, which it usually doesn't get much credit for. In fact, the game was so heavily built upon the latter that it became almost synonymous with the former.

 

[DraQ]

Funniest thing is that not only did I not see people praising Quake 2 to the skies around here like Israfael claims, I saw surprising amount of dislike for it (people like DraQ come to mind)

I don't *hate* it but it's bland, uninspired and pathologically easy (being easy is not in itself a damning trait, but if you can get through about half of the game before noticing that someone switched your godmode on when you were AFK then it is a problem), so seeing it pictured as some sort of classic never fails to piss me off.

It's not a classic.
It's Carmack's go at making uninspired dudebro shooter.
They could have made a decent shooter out of Q2 with relatively minor changes, but they did not so it is not.

SE is to FE what Doom 2 is to Doom 1, an improvement in every way.

In what did Doom 2 improve Doom 1? Besides count of teleport traps and monster closets.

Super Shotgun.

Some neat level design and new monsters.
SSG was for casuls.

 

[Excidium II]

Super Shotgun.

I'm ambivalent about it. On one hand it feels good to use, on the other it upsets the weapon balance, as it's powerful, and ammo is plentiful.

Some neat level design and new monsters.

Fuck pain elementals though.

The levels are fine for the first 2/3 but still, everything was a sharp decline after Doom's Inferno.

 

[DraQ]

Super Shotgun.

I'm ambivalent about it. On one hand it feels good to use, on the other it upsets the weapon balance, as it's powerful, and ammo is plentiful.

And it counters anything that attacks by getting in your face.

Maybe I'm old fashioned but having a monster directly in his face is exactly the kind of situation a human marine in hell shouldn't feel comfortable with.

 

[Sodafish]

The most OP weapon is the gauss cannon tho, and ammo is hardly ever an issue, especially as you can just chainsaw low level mooks and fully replenish again.

 

[Excidium II]

The most OP weapon is the gauss cannon tho, and ammo is hardly ever an issue, especially as you can just chainsaw low level mooks and fully replenish again.

We're talking about Doom 2.

 

[Carrion]

There is a Doom 2 already?

 

[Sodafish]

The most OP weapon is the gauss cannon tho, and ammo is hardly ever an issue, especially as you can just chainsaw low level mooks and fully replenish again.

We're talking about Doom 2.

That'll teach me to scroll past half the posts

 

[shihonage]

There is a Doom 2 already?

This is what happens. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.

 

[Edward The Mediocre]

No shit, that's why bethseda named doom 4, DooM. No need to fight against a legacy if people don't know about the original one.

 

[Caim]

There is a Doom 2 already?

10/10

 

[Quatlo]

No shit, that's why bethseda named doom 4, DooM. No need to fight against a legacy if people don't know about the original one.

I know 12 y/o kids that play Doom 1 and 2, you are not that elite as you think grandpa.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Warning - Anti new Doom rant incoming. You've been warned! Also Warning - I have not played the game, only watched several hours of gameplay from various sources! My comments are based on what I SAW, not what I PLAYED.

The new Doom game just isn't a legitimate Doom game, in my opinion. I will not be supporting this game. Let me explain why.

I am huge fan of the original games - Doom, Doom II, Final Doom and Doom 64, going back many years. These are what I consider the "Classic Doom Games". They all closely resemble each other in gameplay, graphical style and the basic philosophies and ideas of level design.

Doom 3 is an okay game, I would play it sooner than this new Doom. But Doom 3 is not a classic-style Doom game, either. If I want a Doom game, I play the originals.

My opinion is not based on nostalgia, it's based on design principles.

The new Doom is an arena shooter done in an extremely repetitive way that does not resemble any of 4 Doom games I quoted.

The level design is atrocious, in my opinion - small, narrow hallways that lead to uninspired, slightly larger arena rooms where you kill wave after wave of spawning enemies.

Excuse my language, I'm very passionate about this. How the FUCK is that a Doom game?

Where is the unique, interesting, sprawling level design? Where are the tricks and traps around every corner? Ambushes? Enemies placed strategically on the map to give you certain problems as you explore (and also, occasionally scare the shit out of you!)? Etc.

It's just a shame to me that this is the new generation's Doom that they get. Uninspired, forgettable, and I highly doubt it will be the formula for some incredible new Doom series to come.

They should have called this game Hellspawn: Demonslayer, not Doom.

Rant over.

 

[shihonage]

I know 12 y/o kids that play Doom 1 and 2

Those are the only games you have running in your basement.

 

[Space Insect]

Once I tried to talk one of my friends into playing Doom. He laughed and went on and on about how there is not motivation to keep playing because there is not story. My jaw dropped. I have been affected by the storyfag disease. It is not a joke or a meme. It is a real, serious issue plaguing the youth of our world today.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Well, apparently the new Doom starts with a story being told on a monitor, which Doomguy promptly flings across the room as if to indicate, "This is a Doom game! We don't need no damn story!"

A little bit later and they basically say, "Haha! Fooled you!", and start the story.

Not that there's anything wrong with a story. But who are these Doom fans who are just craving a rich, engrossing story in their Doom games? Seriously?

The originals kept you playing because the gameplay was excellent. The level design was excellent. Everything about the game was excellence. These key factors are missing in the new Doom, replaced by...a story?

What was the story of the originals? You're a marine, you start out on a space station, then you have to travel to hell and kill demons. That's all I knew about it and all I needed to know about it.

You played because the gameplay was great. You couldn't wait to see that next level. You couldn't wait to search all over the map for secrets. It wasn't about a story.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a guy who still plays the original Doom games to this day and continues to go back to them. They are classics. Without much of a story.

 

[shihonage]

Once I tried to talk one of my friends into playing Doom. He laughed and went on and on about how there is not motivation to keep playing because there is not story. My jaw dropped. I have been affected by the storyfag disease. It is not a joke or a meme. It is a real, serious issue plaguing the youth of our world today.

By shielding himself with the storyfag label, your friend is desecrating it. The real issue is, he doesn't know where to go without quest markers.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

The real issue is, he doesn't know where to go without quest markers.

Well, to be fair, games stopped telling you where to go. They rely now on having an arrow show you the way.

I just had to shake my head when I was watching a friend play Fallout 4. He was doing a quest that involved searching an abandoned house and finding something of importance. Instead of actually, ya know, searching the house, the big ol' arrow pointed him directly to the "secret" button underneath the desk. Brilliant.

21st century game design, where the games play themselves!

 

[dunno lah]

 

[Astral Rag]

No shit, that's why bethseda named doom 4, DooM. No need to fight against a legacy if people don't know about the original one.

I know 12 y/o kids that play Doom 1 and 2, you are not that elite as you think grandpa.

Brutal Doom is not Doom

 

[tormund]

No shit, that's why bethseda named doom 4, DooM. No need to fight against a legacy if people don't know about the original one.

I know 12 y/o kids that play Doom 1 and 2, you are not that elite as you think grandpa.

Nobody claims to be any sort of elite, it's just another thing that you of Bethesda cult like to sneeringly accuse those who disagree with you.
That teenagers play and mod original Doom today just proves its enduring quality and universal appeal.

 

[Israfael]

did I not see people praising Quake 2 to the skies around here like Israfael claims

Check shihonage wall of texts in the Quake 2 thread, i did not want to point fingers, but you forced me. Sometimes people think they are objective, but then you see that they just defend a particular brand or a particular 'team' so to say

 

[shihonage]

Sometimes people think they are objective, but then you see that they just defend a particular brand or a particular 'team' so to say

I passed Quake 2 and formed an opinion on it. Has nothing to do with "brands" or "teams".

 

[Doktor Best]

Warning - Anti new Doom rant incoming. You've been warned! Also Warning - I have not played the game, only watched several hours of gameplay from various sources! My comments are based on what I SAW, not what I PLAYED.

The new Doom game just isn't a legitimate Doom game, in my opinion. I will not be supporting this game. Let me explain why.

I am huge fan of the original games - Doom, Doom II, Final Doom and Doom 64, going back many years. These are what I consider the "Classic Doom Games". They all closely resemble each other in gameplay, graphical style and the basic philosophies and ideas of level design.

Doom 3 is an okay game, I would play it sooner than this new Doom. But Doom 3 is not a classic-style Doom game, either. If I want a Doom game, I play the originals.

My opinion is not based on nostalgia, it's based on design principles.

The new Doom is an arena shooter done in an extremely repetitive way that does not resemble any of 4 Doom games I quoted.

The level design is atrocious, in my opinion - small, narrow hallways that lead to uninspired, slightly larger arena rooms where you kill wave after wave of spawning enemies.

Excuse my language, I'm very passionate about this. How the FUCK is that a Doom game?

Where is the unique, interesting, sprawling level design? Where are the tricks and traps around every corner? Ambushes? Enemies placed strategically on the map to give you certain problems as you explore (and also, occasionally scare the shit out of you!)? Etc.

It's just a shame to me that this is the new generation's Doom that they get. Uninspired, forgettable, and I highly doubt it will be the formula for some incredible new Doom series to come.

They should have called this game Hellspawn: Demonslayer, not Doom.

Rant over.

First of all, the new Doom is not an Arena shooter. Its a mix between mazelike fps and arena shooters, but its much much closer to Doom 1+2 than it is to Serious Sam. A shooter does not become an arena shooter as soon as there are spawning enemies. The old Doom games also "spawned" enemies by implenting scripting sequences that opened hidden doors to unleash new hordes of monsters on you. Its basically the same mechanic, though used in a more interesting way because those triggers also changed the enviroment you played in. A shooter is an arena shooter if the core principle of the gamedesign is built around arena gunning, if the level progression and design is merely a way to transport the player to the next gunfest. It doesnt have to be thoughtfully designed, it just has to be there and provide space. Remember the slaughter maps in the oldschool Dooms? The ones where you fought of hordes of monsters while being supplied with almost endless supplies of ammunition? Those maps completely turned around the gameplay of Doom 1+2. Now do those maps make Doom 1+2 into an arena shooter?

Now back to new Doom, lets talk a bit more about the level design for now. I dont know how much footage you have watched, but as far as im concerned (and ive played about 2/3 of the campaign) it is also very reminiscent of the old dooms. You have sprawling, branching levels stuffed with secrets, you have to find key cards to advance, you often have multiple ways to proceed, there are numerous possibilities to shortcut levels, there is emphasis on finding ammunition, armor, and new weapons (you can find some of those weapons in secret areas way before you find them in the normal game) etc etc.

Well, apparently the new Doom starts with a story being told on a monitor, which Doomguy promptly flings across the room as if to indicate, "This is a Doom game! We don't need no damn story!"

A little bit later and they basically say, "Haha! Fooled you!", and start the story.

Not that there's anything wrong with a story. But who are these Doom fans who are just craving a rich, engrossing story in their Doom games? Seriously?

The originals kept you playing because the gameplay was excellent. The level design was excellent. Everything about the game was excellence. These key factors are missing in the new Doom, replaced by...a story?

What was the story of the originals? You're a marine, you start out on a space station, then you have to travel to hell and kill demons. That's all I knew about it and all I needed to know about it.

You played because the gameplay was great. You couldn't wait to see that next level. You couldn't wait to search all over the map for secrets. It wasn't about a story.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a guy who still plays the original Doom games to this day and continues to go back to them. They are classics. Without much of a story.

Now youre just repeating that Youtube kid, and the argument doesnt get better by repeating it mindlessly.
There is like 5 minutes of interactive first person cutscenes in a 12 hour campaign. If you call that story heavy then i dont know man. You also had story exposition in Doom during loading screens by the way, so story IS present in those games.

Listen, i get that some people dont like the new Doom. Its not an exact spiritual successor to the old franchise, it loses some of its old strengths by implenting new mechanics like melee finishers (they are very annoying in the first few levels but become less important in later game) which also weakens the element of ressource scavenging, i get that people dont like spawning enemies even to the extent that they cannot find any joy in it.

But if you criticize a game, do it correctly. Stop talking out of your ass after watching some youtube videos only to score some KKK with the old-doom crowd. We can smell that from afar.