Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Fowyr]

MM6 > MM7

Also speaking about character systems, remember Megatraveller 2. Awesome character generation, mediocre game.

 

[torpid]

"Dr Freud Pipes"

 

[dr. one]

7's world and dungeons are good, don't get me wrong, just nowhere near as much as 6's.

I, for example, disliked 6´s dungeons.
I´ve found most of them about 500% bigger than they needed to be.
Devoid of interesting content and filled with hordes of same enemies - repetitive ad nauseam.
Similarly, IIRC, 6´s exterior areas contained overkill amount of enemies as well.

7´s dungeons were often rather bland and overland areas less varied than in 6, but the general gameplay was in my opinion much less repetitive which made 7´s best aspect (character development) a lot more enjoyable than anything in 6.

I´m quite sure that the difference in the amount of grind and what one thinks of it plays a major role in this cause.
Even though I agree with most of your other points, for me the grindy nature of 6 alone made it quite by far the least enjoyable M&M of those I´ve played (3-7).

 

[Wolfus]

Dungeons are veri individual thing. For me, 7 is better, because I was very frustrated by 6's dungeons (I am pretty disoriented even in real world), especially by Castle Alamos and of course VARN. I see your point, Sceptic, but less is sometimes more.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Details details! Where are you, what level is your party, etc.

Funny eh, how 4 and 5 have EXACTLY the same engine, mechanics, even the same sound effects, yet 5 is much more enjoyable.

Been blitzing through it the last few days, think I'm now into 5's endgame; off to find Corak's jack-in-the-box thing for the wacky joker to surprise Sheltem. I'm kind of confused, though, was it supposed to be a huge reveal that Alamar is Sheltem? I swear he's used that name before.
I've ground to a halt a bit, because I've absolutely run out of cash for training. I put 2 million in the bank and worked in the shop for what I thought was two years (104 weeks), but my characters got about six years older. There's something vaguely depressing and sinister about this that I can't quite put my finger on. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
I eventually got enough through enchanting and selling plate armours back to the store, but every time I dare continue the main quest, someone showers me with fucking millions of EXP and I have nothing to do with it. I'm too obsessive-compulsive about levelling to accept automatic levels when the only thing stopping me training up is the money side. At first, I thought the increasing-cash-to-train mechanic was decent enough, but it's getting a bit too much at this stage; I'm at about 100,000 gold per level for my higher-level characters.

Other than that, I've been greatly enjoying 5; still not sure which game I prefer between 3 and WoX, but there's not much to it either way. Looking forward to trying 6-7 as well.

 

[Fowyr]

I'm kind of confused, though, was it supposed to be a huge reveal that Alamar is Sheltem? I swear he's used that name before.

He impersonated king Alamar in the M&M1. And, by the way, impersonated him very poorly.
"Varnlings, find the Crypt of Carmenca!"

 

[Sceptic]

Been blitzing through it the last few days, think I'm now into 5's endgame; off to find Corak's jack-in-the-box thing for the wacky joker to surprise Sheltem.

Wow, you've really blasted your way through it! Yeah if you've already talked to Corak and have most of the overworld filled up then you'll probably have finished Darkside by the time you read this. You'll still have the added WOX bit at the end to wrap things up.

I'm kind of confused, though, was it supposed to be a huge reveal that Alamar is Sheltem? I swear he's used that name before.

It would be a reveal only to those who hadn't played MM1 (which is where he impersonates the real Alamar). I kinda liked the reference back to MM1 though I must say (you find out Sheltem's real name in MM1 in a very similar way)

Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Probably

Regarding levelling, the game's a bit ridiculous with XP rewards, but thing is you can easily complete it while under level 100, so there's no need to bother with making so much cash. Oh, and whatever you do, do NOT go into Dungeon of Death unless you want enough XP to get to level 500 (which you can't even do; training cap is at 200 and IIRC hard level cap is at 255).

"Varnlings, find the Crypt of Carmenca!"

Hey, some of us actually fell for it and went looking for the Crypt. Then when that king in MM4 sends you to look for the Sixth Mirror I got immediately suspicious...

 

[Fowyr]

Been blitzing through it the last few days, think I'm now into 5's endgame; off to find Corak's jack-in-the-box thing for the wacky joker to surprise Sheltem.

Wow, you've really blasted your way through it!

Hm, I remember finishing M&M5 with party from M&M4 in three days.
I wonder, it's only because I used imported party?

(which you can't even do; training cap is at 200 and IIRC hard level cap is at 255).

Your memory serves you well

 

[Admiral jimbob]

but thing is you can easily complete it while under level 100, so there's no need to bother with making so much cash.

But I want to fight the Megadragon

Hm, I remember finishing M&M5 with party from M&M4 in three days.
I wonder, it's only because I used imported party?

Yeah, I can imagine it being a bit harder with a new one. Having teleport and a good idea of where the main dungeons were (Great _____ Towers) helped considerably.

 

[kmonster]

You can defeat the Megadragon at far lower level than 100 if you don't mind thinking.

A way to farm money is paying gold to let the gem mines get refilled and trade the harvested gems for plate armor.

A week in MM3-5 lasts 10 days and a year has less than 365 days (don't remember the exact number but it's easy to find out).

 

[Mastermind]

Completely disagree. They took out Relics, which were the single most interesting thing about items in MM6, and something you very rarely see in CRPG's. In all other ways it was pretty much the same as 6.

There are relics in 7.

 

[Mastermind]

You can defeat the Megadragon at far lower level than 100 if you don't mind thinking.abusing the well in eeofol

Fixed.

There's nothing like 600 damage dragon breath barrages in mm7.

 

[Mastermind]

This and Invisibility.

Navigating the narrow behemoth infested tunnels with invisibility while the enemies are well out of your league and detection means death is one of the best experiences I've had in video games.

 

[Sceptic]

A week in MM3-5 lasts 10 days and a year has less than 365 days (don't remember the exact number but it's easy to find out).

MM3 had 10 weeks of 10 days each. I think WOX followed the same calendar but I'm not sure.

 

[SkeleTony]

I just cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would pick M&M6 over M&M 7?

Pretty sure I've had this argument not too long ago, and pretty sure it was with you

But I just don't see it. The dungeons and such in 6 bore me.

Why? because they're too big?

No. Because they are too boring. As in 'uninteresting' and yes 'artifical' in feeling. For example that Hall of the Fire Lord thing where you had to drop down through different holes, fight off repeated hordes of goblins, find pieces of amber, use teleporters...etc. just struck me as lazy and 'meh'. I realize that this is one of those subjective things and some people love these sorts of dungeons. I jsut don't see it.

It's an exploration/dungeon crawl game. About half the game is supposed to be in dungeons.

Agreed. Why you are telling me this...I don't know?

7 and 8 forgot about this and put in tiny, tiny dungeons that could be fully cleared out under 10 minutes. THAT was boring.

Nah. 7 had the right idea and near perfect balance of interest and time to complete. Some of 7's dungeons were a bit long and some were a bit short(possibly) but on average I finished most dungeons without having that 'God DAMN I am getting sick of this!' feeling that I got from 6.

There is an old entertainment adage that says "Leave 'em wanting more.". What that means is that it is better to leave the audience wanting more that to leave them feeling they have had all they can take of what you are selling. The first "Lethal Weapon" movie left you wanting more of Martin Riggs' character(Mel Gibson) and if they had left it there that movie would still be regarded as one of the truly greatest action comedies ever made. But then they put us through LW 2, 3, 4...Now I cannot help but cringe when I hear the Lethal Weapon brand mentioned.

Were 6's dungeons too big? maybe... I mean I don't think so, but I can understand why some people do.

It is not just that they are big. I have no problem with big. I am an old school dungeon guy. I still play the Exile games, Natuk, ZangbandTK, nethack, Crawl, etc. But 6's were big and BORING. Every time I beat a dungeon I felt like I had just finished reading (most of)a bad novel where I am glad to have gotten through (so much of)it but I am angry that I wasted my time doing so.

\But 6's were so much more memorable.

In a bad way perhaps but for the most part this is false.

I've played 7 more recently yet I remember 6's dungeons MUCH better.

I suspect your having played 6 before 7 and making it all the way through that game may be coloring your appraisal here. It could be that my finishing 7 before trying to get through 6 may also be influencing my judgment(though I played 6 first, I did not even get through the first 1/3rd of the game that first time playing).

The Abandoned Temple with the tunnel in the back of the temple turning into this monstrous complex of caverns,

...bored me to tears with it's amateurish and lazy design.

the Temple of Baa in Ironfist with its >100 skeletons ambush,

...Put me to sleep with it's boring, lazy design. And the skeleton ambush was laughable! Just run right past them in real time then take them all out 3x3 as they approach the back stairs.

the temple on Hermit's Isle with the ramp spiralling down into the volcano, Castle Darkmoore with its huge spaces and the citadel-within-a-cavern, and of course the Tomb of Varn with its gloriously open spaces... I remember all these very vividly. From 7 I remember... erm... yeah, the Tunnels to Nighon being endlessly boring. Ironically that was the largest dungeon in 7.

I did not make it to the end game dungeons of 6 because the game was too boring to put in the effort. In 7 though I remember well Clanker's Laboratory, The tunnels to Nighon(long? Yes...they can be. Especially if you are a completist like me.), The Haunted House, the Barrows, The Tidewater Cavern, The Breeding Zone & Pit, etc. All were pretty good for the most part(though I will admit that I would shorten the Tunnels to Nighon if it were me).

The alleged 'non-linearity' at the beginning of M&M 6 is bullshit...very artificial(I would rather start out on Emerald Isle and be unable to 'go wherever I want' than to be given the M&M 6 'You can go wherever but you will die if you don't start with these goblins in the starting town'

This is where I'm gonna have to call bullshit. First, the nonlinearity has nothing to do with just Emerald Isle, though it's a good indication of what's to come. The linearity is about what's available for you to go to. MM6 has 15 large overland maps; you can go to ANY of them right off the bat (whether you survive is a matter I will address shortly).

And I maintain that, except for exploits, you cannot really to to any more locations than you can in M&M7. So your argument here is that Quantity > quality? Having 14 places you can either go die in or use exploits to cheat your way into getting items that are too powerful and enable you to breeze through the game is better than having only 10 or 11 areas you can go to...?

Also, I have found personally that there is much greater non-linearity in 7. A lot of those places that are perhaps too high in level difficulty CAN be beaten earlier on by using clever tactics without needing to exploit the game.

No limitations, no artificial obstacles (really, how could you use "artificial" about 6?).

You misunderstand my usage of "artificial". I mean that while you may well be able to visit those 15 areas when you start the game in New Sorpigal, unless you are using exploits, bugs or cheats, you are going to die unless you do the goblins and abandoned temple first...so the game is no more non-linear than 7.

Now let's compare to MM7: 12 large maps (Emerald Isle doesn't count for obvious reasons), only 8 of which are available straight away. That's HALF of MM6. Of the remaining, 2 you have to go through a chain of dungeons to get to, and another 2 you have to actually complete quests to access. You know, like in Arcania.

Nice jab with the absurd "Arcania" comparison Maybe I will draw comparisons of MM6 to "Dragon Age" or some such...

But in any case, I do not feel that quantity trumps quality.

Now survivability. "It's linear because areas are of increasing difficulty" is the single worst argument you can use and the reason why we have Oblivion.

That does not sound like my argument. I am not even sure what THAT argument even IS?!

No, areas being designed for specific difficulty does NOT mean you have to play them in this order. It means the game's most balanced if you play them in this order;

Perhaps. Not sure what this has to do with my arguments here though...?

incidentally it also means the game's most BORING if you do.

Possibly(depending on who you are, what game you are playing, how well designed those areas are, etc.). But in MM7 I am able to go to a whole slew of areas pretty early on and do well. So ...not sure what this has to do with the discussion about MM7 vs. MM6?

In my first MM6 run I rushed to Kriegspire; I don't know why, just because. It was FUCKING TOUGH. And you know what? I loved it. Extremely rewarding, especially since, even though loot is randomized, the LEVEL of the loot is manually assigned to each chest in the game, so I was getting some very very nice Relics. Which of course were an even bigger two-edged sword than usual because, at lower level, both the pros AND the cons on the Relic are a big deal. And now the final nail in the coffin: people HAVE finished MM6 with a level 1 party.

Wow. Exploits FTW! Bad design enabling people to win the game almost as soon as they start the game = better RPG!

Don't get me wrong; I know that in 7 you can upfgrade your castle and have your Golem finished in the first couple weeks(you have to get a bit lucky though) but that is hardly as bad as 6 is in this regard.

Repeatedly. So, no, you don't need to start on these goblins in the starting town; that's just the "easy path". And the beauty of open-ended games? YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE EASY PATH. You can take whatever path you want.

Like in MM7!

Or mix them up. Now... you could do this with 7 too... but to a MUCH lesser extent,

To a LESSER extent, yes(which is a good thing IMO) but not "MUCH lesser". let's not be silly here.

thanks to smaller world AND a third of it being unavailable right off the bat.

As opposed to a somewhat larger world with a nearly identical amount of it being unavailable right off the bat(unless you use exploits).

Also, while story is not what you play M&M for, another point goes to MM6 for the MQ. That is also where the nonlinearity shows. You have 6 rulers' quests to do, in any order, followed by 4 crystals, again in any order, then it funnels into the endgame. Compare to MM7: strictly linear MQ progression. Clean out Harmondale, then go see dwarfs, then go see rulers and complete/fail their quests, wait for a month, do the horn thing, wait for another month, pick side... the waiting parts make the linearity even more obvious as you sit there doing sidequests waiting for the MQ to resume. Morrowind did it too... but only at the very very beginning. MM7 does it mid-game, for no real reason, forcing you to waste time.

I think your characterization is absurd here. In 7 you can do the fairies first or the bandits/Signet ring or the Arcomage deck or the Barrow Mounds. True that they are not of equal difficulty but they CAN be done BEFORE the Goblins even.

*MM7 allows nonhuman races with significant stat differences.

Significant? really? 5 or 6 points in a system where stats go into the hundreds?

Significant in that if say for example, you make a Dwarf Cleric your most efficient spending of points would be towards Strength and Endurance but you really need to increase Personality...so there is a bit of C&C here It is true that by end game you will have items/perma-buffs(from wells and such) that increase your stats well beyond the starting values but to me it is better to at least have these character creation options/features than to not have them. So this is another win for MM7.

The races are nice, don't get me wrong, but they're pretty superfluous once you get past Emerald Isle.

Nah, they only get superfluous once you start getting black potions and higher end magic items. And even then there are certain nice artifacts that are only usable by certain races.

Especially with Black Potions in MM7 boosting your stat by FIFTY POINTS. At least if they'd kept the MM6 black potions race bonuses might've been less superfluous.

Black potions do not increase stats by that much. Each black potion(which can only be used ONCE BTW, so if you find a potion that boosts Intellect you cannot use another one later on that you find) also gives a DECREASE to another stat(like -15 or so) so if you use one of each potion that you can use, you are getting a net increase of no more than 35 in each stat.

'C&C' type relations of skills to classes

Which would've been nice if you actually got to choose your promotion... which you don't, as it's tied to which side you picked. So if you want a Ninja AND a Priest of Light you're out of luck.

This seems a pretty nit-picky quibble here. Would it have been better to allow you to have both 'evil' and 'good' guys in the same party? Possibly, depending on how they did it. But this is hardly game breaking stuff here.

*Much more interesting items to find in MM 7 IMO.

Completely disagree. They took out Relics, which were the single most interesting thing about items in MM6, and something you very rarely see in CRPG's. In all other ways it was pretty much the same as 6.

We will agree to disagree here then. To me the Arcomage tourney rewards alone more than made up for Relics not being there(to tell the truth I do not care about the relics in 6 anyway).

*More interesting quests, dungeons, overland areas, cities, NPCs, etc.

Fuck no. Dungeons were bland and completely forgettable (see above), overland areas were far more generic, and each existed in its own little world instead of giving the impression as in 6 that one continuous world was just cut up into 15 pieces for engine limitations.

The way I see it the converse is true(see above).

Of all the 3D games, 6's world is the only one that felt like it was built in the same way as in 1-5. NPC's and quests were pretty much the same, if anything I find the rulers' quests in 6 to be much more varied and fun than the MQ in 7 (though the multiple choices with relation to the way was a nice touch). Cities... Celeste and The Pit were better than anything in 6, but (hello linearity) they're only accessible in the late game for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Actually, if you really want to put in some effort Celeste is accessible pretty early(don't remember about the Pit since I have not played an 'evil' game in many years).

So yeah. 7 has a better character system. 6 has better everything else. Character system is very important obviously, but it's worthless when the actual world and dungeons aren't good. 7's world and dungeons are good, don't get me wrong, just nowhere near as much as 6's.

Yeah we will just disagree on this. Viva le difference(spelling?).

 

[Sceptic]

For example that Hall of the Fire Lord thing where you had to drop down through different holes, fight off repeated hordes of goblins, find pieces of amber, use teleporters...etc. just struck me as lazy and 'meh'. I realize that this is one of those subjective things and some people love these sorts of dungeons.

Yeah it is subjective I guess... I loved the Hall of the Fire Lord. It made such good use of the z-axis and getting lost in there trying to figure out where the hell I needed to go next brought back good memories of Daggerfall.

There is an old entertainment adage that says "Leave 'em wanting more.".

There's a difference between "this was great I wish there were more" and "... that's it? really?" I can't say I was in any hurry to immediately restart MM6 when I finished it, but I was happy, satisfied, and ready after a break to either replay or play the next game when it came out. With MM7 I was left vaguely dissatisfied that everything was too small.

But 6's were big and BORING.

Well this is where we're gonna have to agree to disagree. I found 7 and 8's much more boring. 6's to me were long, arduous, exciting, satisfying, challenging... but never boring. I think they would've been boring if I had been exploiting the game, or if they weren't as challenging as they were for the most part, but I loved them as they were, enough to not get bored with their size.

I suspect your having played 6 before 7 and making it all the way through that game may be coloring your appraisal here.

Maybe, but I don't think so. I guess we all have some innate preference for what we played (or saw or read or whatever) first, but with M&M specifically there is no pattern - I liked 5 much more than 4 for example.

In 7 though I remember well Clanker's Laboratory, The tunnels to Nighon(long? Yes...they can be. Especially if you are a completist like me.), The Haunted House, the Barrows, The Tidewater Cavern, The Breeding Zone & Pit, etc.

We really are opposites. The only ones I remember from here are Tunnels and Barrows; Tunnels not in a good way and Barrows only for the gimmick, I don't actually remember any of the Barrows themselves. And the Tunnels for me were far, far more boring than any dungeon in 6 could ever be.

So your argument here is that Quantity > quality?

No, my argument is that quantity+quality>quality. Or, more specifically, that quantity that allows for more variety and quality > all. Specifically regarding overworld design I've explained at length why I like 6's over 7's.

And yeah, quantity IS important to an explorationfag like myself.

You misunderstand my usage of "artificial". I mean that while you may well be able to visit those 15 areas when you start the game in New Sorpigal, unless you are using exploits, bugs or cheats, you are going to die unless you do the goblins and abandoned temple first

I'm going to throw one of your own quotes at you: "A lot of those places that are perhaps too high in level difficulty CAN be beaten earlier on by using clever tactics without needing to exploit the game."

Wow. Exploits FTW! Bad design enabling people to win the game almost as soon as they start the game = better RPG!

I never used an exploit in MM6. Not a single one. Not once. Not in MM7 either. The only exploit I used in MM8 was having a dragon, but that's more bad design than an exploit. And where's the bad design in enabling people to win the game "almost as soon as they start" if they're so FUCKING GOOD at it? I didn't say I had an easy time in Kriegspire, in fact I had a VERY rough time. But superior tactics and preparation prevailed. That's good design. Being rewarded with high-level items for succedding there? fuck yes, if I just went through a high level area much earlier I deserve the sweet rewards. Winning at level 1? the existence of the possibility demonstrates nonlinearity and openness of the game, it does NOT mean it's easy or doable "as soon as you start"; it requires VERY heavy metagame knowledge and, yes, abusing exploits. Which is why I never tried it; not my type of playing.

Regarding artificiality, you seem to consider (correct me if I misunderstood) MM6's approach of populating high level areas with tough monsters to be an artificial limitation but MM7's of not letting you access the area at all to be more natural. To me they're totally reversed.

Nice jab with the absurd "Arcania" comparison Maybe I will draw comparisons of MM6 to "Dragon Age" or some such...

Yeah, that one was a bit cheap. All tongue in cheek though.

That does not sound like my argument.

I was going by what you said here: "I would rather start out on Emerald Isle and be unable to 'go wherever I want' than to be given the M&M 6 'You can go wherever but you will die if you don't start with these goblins in the starting town'".

Don't get me wrong; I know that in 7 you can upfgrade your castle and have your Golem finished in the first couple weeks(you have to get a bit lucky though) but that is hardly as bad as 6 is in this regard.

I don't see why either is bad to be honest. If I want to rush through the MQ and I'm good enough at it, why should the game artificially restrict me?

Like in MM7!

Except to a much lesser extent (OK, so I'll take out the capitalization; you'll have to settle for that as a middle grounds).

As opposed to a somewhat larger world with a nearly identical amount of it being unavailable right off the bat(unless you use exploits).

No exploits required. First there was no Invisibility in MM6, so you had to either Fly (which worked for a very, very short duration at low skill levels) or fight. Flying wasn't so hot when the enemies suddenly take off and fly after you, spraying you with ranged attacks. And if you're fighting, you had BETTER use superior tactics if you're much lower level. Or use exploits, but who would want to take all the fun out of the game?

In 7 you can do the fairies first or the bandits/Signet ring or the Arcomage deck or the Barrow Mounds.

MAIN quest. They had BETTER not try to make all sidequests depend on a linear progression in my Might and Magic

So this is another win for MM7.

Oh no doubt, just not a major one. I would've liked if they'd done more with this... maybe race-specific sidequests (racial promotion?), or some kind of innate abilities available to certain races, or something like that. Would've made the choice of race more important on the long run. As it is, it has a significant effect early on (OK, definitely past Emerald Isle) but it then goes away too early on. Though the race-specific artifacts are a nice touch, had forgotten about those.

DECREASE to another stat

That's 6. In 7 and 8 it's just a net 50-point increase. I don't know why they changed it, as the introduction of the Alchemy skill was a definite plus.

We will agree to disagree here then. To me the Arcomage tourney rewards alone more than made up for Relics not being there(to tell the truth I do not care about the relics in 6 anyway).

I was wrong after alll... relics are still in 7 and 8. No idea why I thought they'd taken them out. Anyway Arcomage is the most awesomely addictive minigame ever created. I can't believe you didn't just use this one argument to completely destroy my tl;dr arguments in favor of MM6. Yeah too easy I know

Actually, if you really want to put in some effort Celeste is accessible pretty early(don't remember about the Pit since I have not played an 'evil' game in many years).

No, that's the thing. You just cannot get into either of them until you choose the new arbiter. You can't open the door to The Pit, and you can't use the teleporter to Celeste. THAT is what I mean by artificial restriction. At the risk of using another horrible hyperbole, it's like those locked doors in Two Worlds II that magically unlock once you get told to go there. Of course MM7's nowhere near as bad, as they're the only 2 locations locked out like this, but added to all the other locations that are either also locked out or require jumping through hoops (Nighon, Eeofol, Shoals, Evenmorn), it was disappointing after the total freedom of MM6.

Yeah we will just disagree on this. Viva le difference(spelling?).

Without difference there would be no discussion

 

[Damned Registrations]

Just started playing MM6 today. Not really sure which skills I should bother with. I was thinking I'd want someone with identify, but based on how often I have to leave dungeons to heal up, I can probably just use towns for that anyways.

What does perception do exactly, in regards to 'noticing more treasure'? Does it make more stuff show up in chests? More chests/crates show up in random spots? Certain features only show up with high perception?

Also, how long do all those clerical spells that say they give a temporary boost last. Are we talking all day, an hour, a few minutes? Bless gives the exact duration but most of them don't.

 

[DaveO]

In MM6, Perception is a BAD skill to develop much. From my recollection only one dungeon needs the skill. You can loot some items from a few areas with Perception, but they are low level items.

 

[hoverdog]

Everyone should get bows ASAP. It makes the early game much easier, when your mage(s)/druid(s)/cleric(s) can't kill a rat with their spells.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Where the hell do I get bows? Haven't seen any drop and nobody sells them in the first town.

Also, how much does armor actually slow down characters? Is it like a major 30-40% difference in number of turns you get, or something irrelevant and everyone should wear heavy armor and forget about the skill.

 

[Sceptic]

In MM6, Perception is a BAD skill to develop much. From my recollection only one dungeon needs the skill.

Yep, though you DO need it at Expert, and IIRC it's an MQ dungeon.

I was thinking I'd want someone with identify

I just take the NPC that can identify everything (and who also gives +5 to Learning - moar XP!) and forget about the skill entirely. You do need Repair, though one char is enough if you don't mind swapping stuff around.

Also, how long do all those clerical spells that say they give a temporary boost last. Are we talking all day, an hour, a few minutes? Bless gives the exact duration but most of them don't.

I thought most of them did? Dunno, been a while. But in any case boosting Spirit for the cleric buffs is a good idea but as I was reminded not too long ago Light Magic combines the buffs into a more powerful one-spell package.

 

[Mastermind]

Where the hell do I get bows?

Kill the dragon and abuse the persistent corpse bug to load up on end-game bows.

Edit: nvm, you're playing 6. I think you can get them in the ironfist castle village.

 

[DaveO]

Ironfist is indeed the place to get bows. You can travel to the town immediately on the first day. You can get decent bows if you want to save and reload. I would recommend two Merchant NPCs before traveling to Ironfist to maximize the gold rewards you get.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Tried out a few different party configurations. Everything seems to run into the same issue of having to stop and recover hp/mp after a couple fights. Which was fine in the earlier games, but here I can't rest 90% of the time because something is on the other side of a wall 'near' me half the dungeon away, and even if I could rest, my team is diseased and poisoned and shit.

On top of that, I can't seem to get the game to start with the fan made patch applied, so apparently there's a shitload of bugs involving attack speed waiting to screw me over. And holding down the shift key to run is getting old real fast, especially since I spend more time running into and out of the dungeon than anything else.

I like the game world, but the combat balance vs. resting and travel times seems like shit.

 

[Varn]

Also - if MM6's hordes of enemies are too much for you - you can create a party of 4 sorcerors. In ironfist village there is a trainer who, if you keep clicking "train a certain skill", will eventually give your characters a random skill that they ordinarily couldn't get despite saying that you can't be trained in that skill. So Eg you can get plate and sword skills for your sorcerors, etc.

It's a cheap exploint but fun for a second play-through.