Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Interactions are only triggered if you have a character in the leader spot, maybe try that next time.

I played IWD 2 about 6 weeks ago and I do remember certain different dialogue options depending on who was your leader?

Paladins of Ilmater will reject any sort of reward because muh religion, for instance.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Interactions are only triggered if you have a character in the leader spot, maybe try that next time.

I played IWD 2 about 6 weeks ago and I do remember certain different dialogue options depending on who was your leader?

Paladins of Ilmater will reject any sort of reward because muh religion, for instance.

Monks also refuse most rewards for those rewards are just earthly possessions (edit: and monks get special treatment in the monastery) Paladins can detect evil, clerics can banish spirits and cleric of bane had 1 special line. Druid got some stuff too. There are some holes/passages that only shorter races can fit. Also drows and duergars got some lines but not many.

 

[Snufkin]

Human Bard is great in IWD2. You get enough skillpoints to max concentration, dialogue skills and identify skills.

 

[PapaPetro]

Interactions are only triggered if you have a character in the leader spot, maybe try that next time.

I played IWD 2 about 6 weeks ago and I do remember certain different dialogue options depending on who was your leader?

Paladins of Ilmater will reject any sort of reward because muh religion, for instance.

Some would call this hardmode.

 

[laclongquan]

Interactions are only triggered if you have a character in the leader spot, maybe try that next time.

I played IWD 2 about 6 weeks ago and I do remember certain different dialogue options depending on who was your leader?

Paladins of Ilmater will reject any sort of reward because muh religion, for instance.

Some would call this hardmode.

Nah, it's called Party of the Stupids.
Because any normal characters with anything resemble normal IQ would let another non-Paladin to be party leader. They would object to Paladin make others to pay for HIS/HER alignment.
My party almost always has Paladin or mixed, but if having them as party leader would affect party reward, down they go~ If we can afford the crippling disadvantage of a Bard in party, THAT would be our normal leader. If not, it would be the wizard variant who has good intelligence to negotiate better deals for us.

 

[Snufkin]

I feel like Paladins and Rangers are real losers in IWD2. Only worth a single lvl as dip.

 

[Average Manatee]

I feel like Paladins and Rangers are real losers in IWD2. Only worth a single lvl as dip.

No? Rangers and Paladins get everything Fighters get except weapon specialization (highly overrated but you can always 4 level dip there if you want it), and the selection of feats is so low that Fighters see no benefit to all those extra feats they get at later levels. So they end up essentially strictly superior to Fighters. Granted their spellcasting isn't amazing but there's at least 1 or 2 decent spells at most levels. Whether they are better than Barbarian is up for debate though, I'd say yes at high levels.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Pallies can use thge holy avenger though, and this time in 2 you have to do an actual party vs party fight for it and it's not in some dumpster like in 1

 

[Snufkin]

Barbarian or Monks are much better.
Rangers and Palies get those spells but at cost of having half effective caster lvl. Why take those when you can get druid + cleric?

 

[PapaPetro]

Paladins of Ilmater will reject any sort of reward because muh religion, for instance.

Some would call this hardmode.

Nah, it's called Party of the Stupids.
Because any normal characters with anything resemble normal IQ would let another non-Paladin to be party leader. They would object to Paladin make others to pay for HIS/HER alignment.
My party almost always has Paladin or mixed, but if having them as party leader would affect party reward, down they go~ If we can afford the crippling disadvantage of a Bard in party, THAT would be our normal leader. If not, it would be the wizard variant who has good intelligence to negotiate better deals for us.

Maybe the Paladin's respective god should get off his/her ass and reward the party for their piety? Granting meager spells and useless low-level abilities seems like a shitty payoff.

 

[Average Manatee]

Barbarian or Monks are much better.

Monks are a joke class. 1 level dip only.

Paladin absolutely destroys Barbarian once it gets to level 3 or 4 spells. Ranger is a harder call in terms of pure melee, you can replicate Barbarian's rage with Animal Rage, no AC penalty but a 5% chance of berserk during combat. You also get Ironskins which will outdo Barbarian's phys resist for a few battles per day. But ranger can also spam crap summons to tie enemies up, brokenly OP insect plague, and has call lightning/static charge and some elemental resistance stuff

Rangers and Palies get those spells but at cost of having half effective caster lvl. Why take those when you can get druid + cleric?

Obviously the only reason to ever take a high BAB class is for the high BAB, which is why I was comparing to the only other decent high BAB class, barbarian. Some of those buffs are personal use only so the high BAB classes can be slightly stronger in melee. But in general you are correct, there is very little reason to take anything other than clerics, druids, and wizards/sorcerers. Maybe throw in 1 bard for their unique memes.

 

[Snufkin]

Barbarian or Monks are much better.

Monks are a joke class. 1 level dip only.

Paladin absolutely destroys Barbarian once it gets to level 3 or 4 spells. Ranger is a harder call in terms of pure melee, you can replicate Barbarian's rage with Animal Rage, no AC penalty but a 5% chance of berserk during combat. You also get Ironskins which will outdo Barbarian's phys resist for a few battles per day. But ranger can also spam crap summons to tie enemies up, brokenly OP insect plague, and has call lightning/static charge and some elemental resistance stuff

Rangers and Palies get those spells but at cost of having half effective caster lvl. Why take those when you can get druid + cleric?

Obviously the only reason to ever take a high BAB class is for the high BAB, which is why I was comparing to the only other decent high BAB class, barbarian. Some of those buffs are personal use only so the high BAB classes can be slightly stronger in melee. But in general you are correct, there is very little reason to take anything other than clerics, druids, and wizards/sorcerers. Maybe throw in 1 bard for their unique memes.

Paladin and Ranger will have 3 / 2 / 2 / 1 spells on 18 lvl, thats level where game is over. Those spells are only half of caster lvl so they count as 9 lvl only.
You can lob fireballs and shit on top of Deep gnome monk all day. They eventualy get 1-20 dmg and have bigger AC than Paladin. Barbarian will have 7 DR vs melee and 14 DR vs missile with abishai armor.
Monk or Barbarian are still good because they get faster progression with attacks than druid/bard/sorcer etc.

 

[Average Manatee]

Can't test now but I'm 95% sure that Paladin/Ranger caster level is either character level -4 (as it should be) or just always character level (it was this way in IWD1 IIRC). 1/2 caster level is not correct according to any rule and I've never even heard of that in D&D.

Most spells don't even care about caster level. Defensive Harmony? Animal Rage? Insect Plague? Literally couldn't care less about a low CL.

You can lob fireballs and shit on top of Deep gnome monk all day.

OK, so? Doesn't make them good, it makes your aim bad. btw you can get evasion with 1 monk level dip and the paladin will have better saves so a paladin wins anyway.

They eventualy get 1-20 dmg

Fist damage is INSANELY trash. That's 10.5 damage per hit. Holy Avenger will deal 1d8+5 +2d6 vs. evil = 8-21 damage = 15 damage per hit. The Paladin will also have like +10 AB (+5 from weapon +5 from better BAB progression) so they'll hit at least 2x as often with their attacks, maybe 3x as often. Monks are a joke class.

have bigger AC than Paladin.

Yeah, it's a 1 level dip max.

Barbarian will have 7 DR vs melee and 14 DR vs missile with abishai armor.

Anyone can wear Abishai armor if they don't want unarmored monk AC bonus. Barbarian has 3 DR at level 18 which is... incredibly meh.

 

[Snufkin]

Can't test now but I'm 95% sure that Paladin/Ranger caster level is either character level -4 (as it should be) or just always character level (it was this way in IWD1 IIRC). 1/2 caster level is not correct according to any rule and I've never even heard of that in D&D.

Most spells don't even care about caster level. Defensive Harmony? Animal Rage? Insect Plague? Literally couldn't care less about a low CL.

You can lob fireballs and shit on top of Deep gnome monk all day.

OK, so? Doesn't make them good, it makes your aim bad. btw you can get evasion with 1 monk level dip and the paladin will have better saves so a paladin wins anyway.

They eventualy get 1-20 dmg

Fist damage is INSANELY trash. That's 10.5 damage per hit. Holy Avenger will deal 1d8+5 +2d6 vs. evil = 8-21 damage = 15 damage per hit. The Paladin will also have like +10 AB (+5 from weapon +5 from better BAB progression) so they'll hit at least 2x as often with their attacks, maybe 3x as often. Monks are a joke class.

have bigger AC than Paladin.

Yeah, it's a 1 level dip max.

Barbarian will have 7 DR vs melee and 14 DR vs missile with abishai armor.

Anyone can wear Abishai armor if they don't want unarmored monk AC bonus. Barbarian has 3 DR at level 18 which is... incredibly meh.

For rangers and paladins the casting level is only the half class level rounded down. So it also means their buffs will last half time.
Monks improve with every level. They get magic resistance up along with deep gnome bonus. You get monk if you want blaster party. Or barbarian if you want rely on buffs and debuffs.
Paladins also wont get better saves. If you pump charisma to maximum, it will reduce dex and con. So you get some and lose some.

 

[Average Manatee]

For rangers and paladins the casting level is only the half class level rounded down. So it also means their buffs will last half time.

Source?

And no, plenty of buffs don't care. Defensive Harmony is always 6 rounds. Storm shell 10 rounds. DuHM is 10 rounds. Magic Circle is 10 rounds/level, so long enough for a battle or two no matter what. Same for Call Lightning. Insect Plague is 2 rounds/level and is so devastating that if you need more than like 8 rounds of that then you should uninstall the game.

Monks improve with every level.

from trash to trash

They get magic resistance up along with deep gnome bonus. You get monk if you want blaster party.

Just aim decently and/or summon crap and/or have evasion and/or cast defensive buffs on your characters (either elemental resistance or spell resistance can be stacked to make you practically invulnerable to nukes regardless of your base stats). No reason to take a class that does literally nothing for you except stand around and make punch animations that don't hit.

Or barbarian if you want rely on buffs and debuffs.

Doesn't make sense, Paladins and Rangers can buff better. Barbarian's only advantage is 4 strength during rage in exchange for -2 AC along with an incredibly minor amount of phys resist at high levels.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Human Bard is great in IWD2. You get enough skillpoints to max concentration, dialogue skills and identify skills.

More like War Chant of the Sith. The class is a total carry, but once yet get that song, they can return the favor. At that point you can just auto-attack every encounter. You don't even need buffs anymore. All spells can be offensive.

 

[Acrux]

Can't test now but I'm 95% sure that Paladin/Ranger caster level is either character level -4 (as it should be) or just always character level (it was this way in IWD1 IIRC). 1/2 caster level is not correct according to any rule and I've never even heard of that in D&D.

I remember testing this years ago and even starting a thread on Sorcerers. Whether it's an error or a misunderstanding of the rules, they are cast at 1/2 level.

https://sorcerers.net/community/threads/paladin-ranger-spell-levels.47708/

 

[Average Manatee]

Interesting. Doesn't matter that much though aside from DuHM or something like Flame Strike. Buffs/Summons tend to either be long enough that they last until the next rest (10 minutes/level or hour/level) or short enough that you're only casting them immediately before a boss battle or in the battle and you don't need more than like 6 rounds.

 

[laclongquan]

Paladins of Ilmater will reject any sort of reward because muh religion, for instance.

Some would call this hardmode.

Nah, it's called Party of the Stupids.
Because any normal characters with anything resemble normal IQ would let another non-Paladin to be party leader. They would object to Paladin make others to pay for HIS/HER alignment.
My party almost always has Paladin or mixed, but if having them as party leader would affect party reward, down they go~ If we can afford the crippling disadvantage of a Bard in party, THAT would be our normal leader. If not, it would be the wizard variant who has good intelligence to negotiate better deals for us.

Maybe the Paladin's respective god should get off his/her ass and reward the party for their piety? Granting meager spells and useless low-level abilities seems like a shitty payoff.

THAT, or paladin thinking doing good deeds for free is its own reward~

But that's paladin's thinking only~ Nobody other than that class would think like that~

Thus, in the end, a paladin leader sacrifice party's just reward to please his own opinion/alignment.

 

[Jigby]

If anyone got problems with screen tearing in IWD2, press ALT+ENTER to get into windowed, and again to get fullscreen. Restart the game, now it should be no tearing. I use DDrawCompat v0.3.1 , NOT the latest one.

What happens is, the game is applying vertical sync when switching to windowed mode. Should work for other games too!

Has this fixed your problem with the game crashing that you raised earlier?

I fixed crash by using DDrawCompat v0.3.1.
Also worth mention, i use 1360x768 resolution in widescreen mod to avoid flickering fog of war (it flickers when set to 1920x1080).
DDrawCompat v0.3.1 is best renderer imho because mouse movement is snappiest of all wrappers i used.

I experimented a little bit and with this shader in particular (https://github.com/ajtos/cnc-ddraw-extra-shaders/blob/main/ddt/ddt-jinc.glsl) the checkerboard pattern dissolves nicely and I get no flickering irrespective of resolution/scaling. Years ago I used reshade+smaa, but this is easier, no finetuning. Of course the EE kind of fixes the fow issue, but on some level this is nicer. EE doesn't do the alpha blending perfectly and you can see the borders between tiles.

 

[PapaPetro]

Paladins of Ilmater will reject any sort of reward because muh religion, for instance.

Some would call this hardmode.

Nah, it's called Party of the Stupids.
Because any normal characters with anything resemble normal IQ would let another non-Paladin to be party leader. They would object to Paladin make others to pay for HIS/HER alignment.
My party almost always has Paladin or mixed, but if having them as party leader would affect party reward, down they go~ If we can afford the crippling disadvantage of a Bard in party, THAT would be our normal leader. If not, it would be the wizard variant who has good intelligence to negotiate better deals for us.

Maybe the Paladin's respective god should get off his/her ass and reward the party for their piety? Granting meager spells and useless low-level abilities seems like a shitty payoff.

THAT, or paladin thinking doing good deeds for free is its own reward~

But that's paladin's thinking only~ Nobody other than that class would think like that~

Thus, in the end, a paladin leader sacrifice party's just reward to please his own opinion/alignment.

A Paladin of Ao then?

 

[NecroLord]

Human Bard is great in IWD2. You get enough skillpoints to max concentration, dialogue skills and identify skills.

More like War Chant of the Sith. The class is a total carry, but once yet get that song, they can return the favor. At that point you can just auto-attack every encounter. You don't even need buffs anymore. All spells can be offensive.

Bards are really great in IWD2. Just a powerful and useful class. Make sure to take the Lingering Song feat, as it is awesome.
Paladins are kinda shit in 3E and 3.5, always have been. Of course, there are some supplements and additional sourcebooks that add divine feats and spells for the paladin, increasing the effectiveness of this class.
I like the paladins in Baldur's Gate 2. They gain some innate abilities like immunity to charm and domination, paralysis, all depending on the specific kit.

 

[PapaPetro]

Human Bard is great in IWD2. You get enough skillpoints to max concentration, dialogue skills and identify skills.

More like War Chant of the Sith. The class is a total carry, but once yet get that song, they can return the favor. At that point you can just auto-attack every encounter. You don't even need buffs anymore. All spells can be offensive.

Bards are really great in IWD2. Just a powerful and useful class. Make sure to take the Lingering Song feat, as it is awesome.
Paladins are kinda shit in 3E and 3.5, always have been. Of course, there are some supplements and additional sourcebooks that add divine feats and spells for the paladin, increasing the effectiveness of this class.
I like the paladins in Baldur's Gate 2. They gain some innate abilities like immunity to charm and domination, paralysis, all depending on the specific kit.

3e+ multiclass splashing was a gamechanger in build choices compared to 2e+kits; the theorycrafting was a meta/minigame in itself.
The punishment/gimping was the delayed spellcasting but as you said, the spells suck even when you get them since one CLW spell at lvl 4 is pathetic compared to what a cleric can sling at that level (not to mention that you already have Lay Hands). You pretty much are paying for a fighter THAC0/BAB but with high saves and innate immunities that are great for front liners/tanks (along with thicc boy AC that monks can't compete with because they are typically stat starved when it comes to Wisdom)

I like what Pathfinder did with the spell selection for Paladins and Bards by giving them either higher level cleric/wizard spells at lower level for them and also giving them exclusive spells for their classes. Like Holy Sword is amazing for a mid-high level Paladin since it gives you a temporary OP Holy Avenger weapon. For Bards, having Tasha's Hideous Laughter as a non-HD restricted 1st level control spell has utility throughout the PC's lifespan. It's good design.

 

[Snufkin]

Human Bard is great in IWD2. You get enough skillpoints to max concentration, dialogue skills and identify skills.

More like War Chant of the Sith. The class is a total carry, but once yet get that song, they can return the favor. At that point you can just auto-attack every encounter. You don't even need buffs anymore. All spells can be offensive.

Bards are really great in IWD2. Just a powerful and useful class. Make sure to take the Lingering Song feat, as it is awesome.
Paladins are kinda shit in 3E and 3.5, always have been. Of course, there are some supplements and additional sourcebooks that add divine feats and spells for the paladin, increasing the effectiveness of this class.
I like the paladins in Baldur's Gate 2. They gain some innate abilities like immunity to charm and domination, paralysis, all depending on the specific kit.

Paladins are amazing in NWN.

 

[Average Manatee]

I like the paladins in Baldur's Gate 2. They gain some innate abilities like immunity to charm and domination, paralysis, all depending on the specific kit.

The kits are nice but the critical flaw is that multiclassing/dualclassing are almost always the strongest option and Paladins can't. You can see how Anomen basically outdoes any Paladin, getting weapon grandmastery + full cleric casting. Inquisitor is OP though if you're playing SCS and don't nerf it.