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KickStarter System Shock 1 Remake by Nightdive Studios

Lemming42

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The only really unforgivable part in SS2 is the "nah" line at the end, which pretty much everyone hates.
And SHODAN showing up in a humanoid body (shaped with breasts and a big wig made of wires, for some reason??). This is the same character that in SS1 was trying to become something totally inhuman. I remember finding a lot of the character's dialogue eye-rolling through the whole game, full on Disney villain shit in your ear.

I thought everyone loved "nah", though!

BUT SS2 is a game that's really meant to be played for the atmosphere, the survival aspects, and the gameplay. That's where it really shines and is definitely the reason why it's worth playing and replaying. If you're tying yourself up on story beats you're doing yourself a disservice.
That's fair, I really can't get past the writing though. For whatever reason, System Shock is one of those games that just really clicked with me, and SHODAN is obviously a huge part of it - seeing the whole character and concept used so badly in SS2 put me off ever properly replaying it. Even if I want to go skulking around the levels again, I know it's just gonna end with fucking "nah".

I dunno, I had fun with a lot of the earlier levels but I was so butthurt by the writing after the big twist where SHODAN shows up that I genuinely have no appetite to replay it. Maybe I'll get over it in like 20 years.

Only other thing I remember clearly from the game is the accidental slapstick every time a camera catches you and enemies just arrive to walk single-file into whatever room you're in at the time.
 
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I thought everyone loved "nah", though!

nah

That's fair, I really can't get past the writing though. For whatever reason, System Shock is one of those games that just really clicked with me, and SHODAN is obviously a huge part of it - seeing the whole character and concept used so badly in SS2 put me off ever properly replaying it. Even if I want to go skulking around the levels again, I know it's just gonna end with fucking "nah".

Fair, the thing with SS1 though for me is the weird brightness and colourscheme of everything, the place doesn't quite feel real, or like a space station.

I'm sure anyone could pull apart either game and utterly destroy their stories and world building. But we love them anyway because they are great games.

Only other thing I remember clearly from the game is the accidental slapstick every time a camera catches you and enemies just arrive to walk single-file into whatever room you're in at the time.

funny when it's hybrids, not so much when it's Rumblers
 

Lemming42

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Fair, the the with SS1 though for me is the weird brightness and colourscheme of everything, the place doesn't quite feel real, or like a space station.
Funnily enough, that is explained somewhat in game - SHODAN has used robots to remodel the station itself, which is why the layout of places doesn't quite make sense and why there's strange architectural features everywhere, weird rooms and doors that don't lead where they should. So it's not meant to look like a logical, real place made by humans; it's a giant hunk of metal that's been remodelled by an AI to suit its own needs, who doesn't think in a way understandable by humans.

You're trapped inside SHODAN's idea of perfection, rather than a human idea of utility. I think that's also why the Bridge is the most fucked up and unrecognisable bit - it's the bit SHODAN's spent the most time fucking with, and it's turned it into some completely incomprehensible nightmare.
 
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Fair, the the with SS1 though for me is the weird brightness and colourscheme of everything, the place doesn't quite feel real, or like a space station.
Funnily enough, that is explained somewhat in game - SHODAN has used robots to remodel the station itself, which is why the layout of places doesn't quite make sense and why there's strange architectural features everywhere, weird rooms and doors that don't lead where they should. So it's not meant to look like a logical, real place made by humans; it's a giant hunk of metal that's been remodelled by an AI to suit its own needs, who doesn't think in a way understandable by humans.

You're trapped inside SHODAN's idea of perfection, rather than a human idea of utility. I think that's also why the Bridge is the most fucked up and unrecognisable bit - it's the bit SHODAN's spent the most time fucking with, and it's turned it into some completely incomprehensible nightmare.

Just because the game explains it (in a log or something) doesn't mean it isn't completely jarring.

It's like when a character in a Marvel movie uses some stupid throwaway line to explain why they are about to do something really stupid and out of character....it's still stupid and out of character, and it's still bad writing.

why was/is ss2 more hyped up than ss1? ask yourself who ken levine is and who runs the gaming media and ask yourself is nepotism is involved.

hmm, I wonder why a game that's far more accessible to normal people, with far more modern games being based off it would be more popular overall? The jews must be involved.
 
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Lemming42

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Hmm, I don't agree at all - I think it's a pretty core idea in SS1, which, when you learn it, reframes the layout of the station in a whole new light and makes SHODAN's presence feel even more pervasive. You're already being stalked by SHODAN every second, seeing its face flash up on screens and occasionally walking into ambushes, but when you learn that literally everything you're seeing on-screen at all times is the product of its mind, it adds a whole new layer of eerieness to the game and the character. The architecture that loops back on itself, the strange rooms with no (apparent to you, a human) meaning, the corridors that just lead to nowhere or to deathtraps - you're inside SHODAN's thought processes, and you can't understand any of them, because SHODAN isn't remotely comprehensible to you.

Ken Levine thinks this character works best as a robot body with tits who is thwarted by being shot at with a big gun.
 

jebsmoker

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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In I helped put crap in Monomyth
You're correct in that I haven't played the game in a long time, but I don't really have any interest in doing so for the reasons I outlined. Even if the gameplay - which I didn't find to be terrible to start with - is improved with mods, the writing really repelled me. I'm glad you agree on that point, at least.

Only the writing for Shodan. And only in relation to SS1. As a standalone villain, she's mostly fine if a bit generic. It's the change from benevolent and purposeful mother to "humans are scum dieeeeeeee" that makes it bad.

The Many are great, though. I have no idea what crack you're smoking on that one.

The only really unforgivable part in SS2 is the "nah" line at the end, which pretty much everyone hates.

BUT SS2 is a game that's really meant to be played for the atmosphere, the survival aspects, and the gameplay. That's where it really shines and is definitely the reason why it's worth playing and replaying. If you're tying yourself up on story beats you're doing yourself a disservice.
the ending in ss2 is hilarious and it's a good showcase for 'less is more'

g65434-2 is so done with shodan's bullshit and all he can muster is 'nah', which is a perfect response for an rogue AI with delusions of grandeur trying to groom you
 
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Ken Levine thinks this character works best as a robot body with tits who is thwarted by being shot at with a big gun.

He did make Bioshock, so we know he's a megabrain 2000IQ genius.

So this must be the best possible interpretation of Shodan

/s

To be fair to them, the whole ending of the game was totally rushed for release. I doubt they intentionally decided that robot tits and "nah" were good design decisions.
 

Grampy_Bone

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SS1 was bound to be less popular than the sequel when the sequel was actually appealing enough to play like a videogame, and many people have fond memories of it as a result. SS2 is compelling enough and complex enough as a game (and is so unlike anything that came after it) that it makes perfect sense that everyone loved it, even if it's flawed.
From memory SS2 barely eeked a profit and was not a big seller. It felt archaic and primitive compared to the newer shooters coming out. By contrast, SS1 blew people away.

Admittedly SS1 ran at something like 16fps and had a mouse-heavy interface in a very 90s way, and was a pain to actually get running like all pre-Windows Origin games. The interface and general playability were things you could hand to SS2 before the enhanced release.

It's funny to me because most of the things people attribute to the "immersive sim" genre SS2 lacks. It's quite linear and lacks alternate paths almost everywhere; you really have to complete the game in the same order every time. SS2 often just forces you to walk through gauntlets of enemies and gun turrets with little in the way of side routes or even cover, and primarily is focused on resource management. I view it more as survival horror, which also makes it clear how much its systems hold it back (survival horror games do not typically have or need skill points or leveling).

SS1 wins in terms of pure real estate, as Citadel blows away the paltry six decks of the Von Braun (plus Rickenbacker). SS1 is also much more open, as after Medical and Research you pretty much have the run of the station, whereas SS2 is a linear progression. SS1 had a bigger weapon arsenal and they're more fun to use, compared to SS2 which not only has fewer guns but locks you out of most of them through the skill point system. The need to make all potential weapon styles viable has a homogenizing effect that ruins much of the fun of finding a new gun, especially since the later weapon categories of Energy and Exotic trade away versatility for basically nothing. You can beat the whole game with the assault rifle, and not doing so is actually punishing because using the EMP gun and Worm launcher require harder to find ammo and are no more effective (useless against half the enemy types!)

PSI is similarly mishandled as most powers struggle to find a use and are hard to justify the point cost vs. pure damage boosts w/ weapons or accessing more resources via hacking and research. If there's no PSI ability better than a fully maxed out Assault rifle (and there's not) why bother? I always found SS1's straightforward cyberware upgrades more interesting since they reward exploration and don't have stupid tradeoffs.

Graphics wise, early-3D games have held up extremely poorly. The Dark Engine was a poor choice as SS2 doesn't use the engine's strengths well (lighting, basically). The monsters in SS2 are shapeless blobs with mud smeared on them, no skeletal animations or location-based damage (the newest hotness of the day), and mostly just look dumb. The biological levels are also hilariously dated and blocky. Shooting and animation completely sucks, as your guns just jerk when fired and lower off the screen when reloaded; weapons look like they're made from DUPLO. Combat feedback is non existent and fights consist of expending resources to delete health bars. The bestiary is worse as the basic mutants are about the only interesting foe; giant spiders and psychic monkeys are dumb, the exploding droids are infuriating, the flying brains and security robots are a joke. SS1 used digitized sprites which I also dislike, but overall has a better aesthetic. The industrial design of Citidel Station is more visually interesting and unique than the Von Braun, which looks like a straight rip off of a TNG federation ship.

The unlocking panel minigames in SS1 were easy but at least they were something, vs. the one single hacking game repeated endlessly in SS2. I'm not sure how opening a lock and upgrading a shotgun are the same, but according the SS2 they are. SS2 lets you hack turrets and has an economy though, which is nice, and both games have good music (better than this remake, anyway).
 
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It's funny to me because most of the things people attribute to the "immersive sim" genre SS2 lacks. It's quite linear and lacks alternate paths almost everywhere; you really have to complete the game in the same order every time. SS2 often just forces you to walk through gauntlets of enemies and gun turrets with little in the way of side routes or even cover, and primarily is focused on resource management. I view it more as survival horror, which also makes it clear how much its systems hold it back (survival horror games do not typically have or need skill points or leveling).

oh enlighten us, arbiter of the immersive sim "genre"

SS1 wins in terms of pure real estate, as Citadel blows away the paltry six decks of the Von Braun (plus Rickenbacker). SS1 is also much more open, as after Medical and Research you pretty much have the run of the station, whereas SS2 is a linear progression. SS1 had a bigger weapon arsenal and they're more fun to use, compared to SS2 which not only has fewer guns but locks you out of most of them through the skill point system. The need to make all potential weapon styles viable has a homogenizing effect that ruins much of the fun of finding a new gun, especially since the later weapon categories of Energy and Exotic trade away versatility for basically nothing. You can beat the whole game with the assault rifle, and not doing so is actually punishing because using the EMP gun and Worm launcher require harder to find ammo and are no more effective (useless against half the enemy types!)

play a recent version. This is so outdated as to be fake news. The assault rifle hasn't been that good in almost 2 decades.

Also, Energy is EXCEPTIONALLY good as a weapon class, and is viable for the whole game. You just suck.


PSI is similarly mishandled as most powers struggle to find a use and are hard to justify the point cost vs. pure damage boosts w/ weapons or accessing more resources via hacking and research. If there's no PSI ability better than a fully maxed out Assault rifle (and there's not) why bother? I always found SS1's straightforward cyberware upgrades more interesting since they reward exploration and don't have stupid tradeoffs.

You suck at using PSI

SS2 doesn't use the engine's strengths well (lighting, basically).

This is just 100% false. First, yes it does use lighting very well. Secondly, the best feature of Dark is it's sound engine and SS2 uses it perfectly. Dark was built from the ground up to support Thief, and good sound propogation was literally required for that game to work. The entire horror atmosphere of the game is held together by the excellent lighting and sound design, and it's enough to carry the entire experience. You're just simply objectively wrong here.

The monsters in SS2 are shapeless blobs with mud smeared on them, no skeletal animations or location-based damage (the newest hotness of the day), and mostly just look dumb.

Have you seen the enemy sprites in SS1?

The biological levels are also hilariously dated and blocky.

Ahh yes, the least blocky levels of the game are blocky. Also, you're complaining about blocky levels while comparing it to a game where the levels are LITERALLY made from a grid of blocks?

Shooting and animation completely sucks, as your guns just jerk when fired and lower off the screen when reloaded; weapons look like they're made from DUPLO.

Remember in SS1 where the weapon firing animation was 1 frame and reloading had no animation?

Combat feedback is non existent

100% false. The game has both blood effects and bullet sparks. melee weapons have splat sounds as well.

and fights consist of expending resources to delete health bars.

This is literally every videogame with combat. Hell, you just described SS1.

Actually SS1 is more "lean around corner, shoot defenceless enemy, cheese game", but you get my point.

The bestiary is worse as the basic mutants are about the only interesting foe; giant spiders and psychic monkeys are dumb,

in your opinion



the exploding droids are infuriating

skill issue

the flying brains and security robots are a joke.

not really. Stop playing on Easy

SS1 used digitized sprites which I also dislike, but overall has a better aesthetic.

Okay. Enjoy your blocky purple levels, your single firing frame, your wonky low-bitrate "bzzt" sounds when interacting with anything, and the extremely poor sprites.


The industrial design of Citidel Station is more visually interesting and unique than the Von Braun, which looks like a straight rip off of a TNG federation ship.

Umm......no.

"This ship looks semi realistic" doesn't mean it's a federation ship. Where's the warp core? The only area in the game that looks remotely like something out of Star Trek is the shuttle bay in engineering.


The unlocking panel minigames in SS1 were easy but at least they were something, vs. the one single hacking game repeated endlessly in SS2.

Really? You're complaining about MINIGAME variety? Not about the underlying mechanics? And how SS2 has a full RPG system build on top of that minigame, SS1 has nothing.



I'm not sure how opening a lock and upgrading a shotgun are the same, but according the SS2 they are.

Do you not know what a gameplay abstraction is, or are you just dumb?

SS2 lets you hack turrets and has an economy though, which is nice, and both games have good music (better than this remake, anyway).

Hmm yes, lets just handwaive away a MASSIVE interconnected RPG system that completely changes every aspect of the gameplay as a footnote about "having an economy".

In SS2, EVERYTHING is based on resource management, from stats, to hacking turrets, to the economy. They all play off each other. The gameplay design is brilliant but I guess "muh atmosphere" is more important to you. SS1 might have tighter design in some aspects but in terms of mechanics it's severely lacking in comparison to SS2
 
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Grampy_Bone

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in your opinion
No shit newfag, who else's opinion would it be?

Also, Energy is EXCEPTIONALLY good as a weapon class, and is viable for the whole game. You just suck.
Okay, of all the dumb things you said, this is the dumbest. The energy pistol is awful, laser rapier is melee, and the EMP gun is straight useless on half the things in the game. Maybe try playing with a fully upgraded assault rifle with the correct ammo types? Here's how it works: You use the anti-personal ammo on mutants, you use the anti-armor ammo on robots, and you use the standard rounds to kill yourself when you realize you ruined your body forever after getting your bottom surgery. Faggot.
 

Tweed

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Nameless Voice (prominent Thief/SS2 modder who made the NVScript package, show some respect) made a handy little mod for the annoying animations:

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=8642.msg148089#msg148089

Nameless Voice said:
I made a small mod that doubles the speed of all of the pickup animations.

It also triples the speed of the animation for using the recharging station.

It doesn't change the time it takes to use a surgical bed because that didn't work.
It also doesn't change the keycard-swipe animation, because speeding it up somehow made it no longer unlock doors.

To use, go to "System Shock Remake\SystemShock\Content\Paks\", create a subdirectory named "~mods", and drop the pak in there.

Now if they can make one that lets you bypass all Cyberspace related tasks.
 
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No shit newfag, who else's opinion would it be?

You dense motherfucker.

You said it like it was an objective statement. I corrected your stupidity. I don't see why I bothered since your stupidity seems to be endless.

Okay, of all the dumb things you said, this is the dumbest. The energy pistol is awful, laser rapier is melee, and the EMP gun is straight useless on half the things in the game. Maybe try playing with a fully upgraded assault rifle with the correct ammo types? Here's how it works: You use the anti-personal ammo on mutants, you use the anti-armor ammo on robots, and you use the standard rounds to kill yourself when you realize you ruined your body forever after getting your bottom surgery. Faggot.

Show me you haven't played SS2 without telling me you haven't played SS2.

"The energy pistol is awful"

No. Use overcharge mode. It destroys everything up to and including midwives in 1-2 shots. It is also the most efficient weapon in the game in terms of damage per degredation.

"Laser rapier is melee"

So what. It's also awesome.

"EMP Gun is straight useless on half the things in the game"

Yes, but it's fucking DEVASTATING on the other half. That's how tradeoffs work.

Maybe try playing with a fully upgraded assault rifle with the correct ammo types? Here's how it works: You use the anti-personal ammo on mutants, you use the anti-armor ammo on robots

"The game where I can kill everything with the laser rapier is superior to the game where I can kill everything with the assault rifle"

See how stupid those kinds of arguments sound? That's you. That's what you sound like.

and you use the standard rounds to kill yourself when you realize you ruined your body forever after getting your bottom surgery.

Do you somehow think saying cringe shit somehow makes your arguments better? Because they are still shit.

Kill yourself now, save us all some embarrassment instead of posting again. I used to think humans had some basic level of dignity and humanity, then you posted. Just stop. Please. I can only take so much cringe.
 
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MLMarkland

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SS1 was bound to be less popular than the sequel when the sequel was actually appealing enough to play like a videogame, and many people have fond memories of it as a result. SS2 is compelling enough and complex enough as a game (and is so unlike anything that came after it) that it makes perfect sense that everyone loved it, even if it's flawed.
From memory SS2 barely eeked a profit and was not a big seller. It felt archaic and primitive compared to the newer shooters coming out. By contrast, SS1 blew people away.

Admittedly SS1 ran at something like 16fps and had a mouse-heavy interface in a very 90s way, and was a pain to actually get running like all pre-Windows Origin games. The interface and general playability were things you could hand to SS2 before the enhanced release.

It's funny to me because most of the things people attribute to the "immersive sim" genre SS2 lacks. It's quite linear and lacks alternate paths almost everywhere; you really have to complete the game in the same order every time. SS2 often just forces you to walk through gauntlets of enemies and gun turrets with little in the way of side routes or even cover, and primarily is focused on resource management. I view it more as survival horror, which also makes it clear how much its systems hold it back (survival horror games do not typically have or need skill points or leveling).

SS1 wins in terms of pure real estate, as Citadel blows away the paltry six decks of the Von Braun (plus Rickenbacker). SS1 is also much more open, as after Medical and Research you pretty much have the run of the station, whereas SS2 is a linear progression. SS1 had a bigger weapon arsenal and they're more fun to use, compared to SS2 which not only has fewer guns but locks you out of most of them through the skill point system. The need to make all potential weapon styles viable has a homogenizing effect that ruins much of the fun of finding a new gun, especially since the later weapon categories of Energy and Exotic trade away versatility for basically nothing. You can beat the whole game with the assault rifle, and not doing so is actually punishing because using the EMP gun and Worm launcher require harder to find ammo and are no more effective (useless against half the enemy types!)

PSI is similarly mishandled as most powers struggle to find a use and are hard to justify the point cost vs. pure damage boosts w/ weapons or accessing more resources via hacking and research. If there's no PSI ability better than a fully maxed out Assault rifle (and there's not) why bother? I always found SS1's straightforward cyberware upgrades more interesting since they reward exploration and don't have stupid tradeoffs.

Graphics wise, early-3D games have held up extremely poorly. The Dark Engine was a poor choice as SS2 doesn't use the engine's strengths well (lighting, basically). The monsters in SS2 are shapeless blobs with mud smeared on them, no skeletal animations or location-based damage (the newest hotness of the day), and mostly just look dumb. The biological levels are also hilariously dated and blocky. Shooting and animation completely sucks, as your guns just jerk when fired and lower off the screen when reloaded; weapons look like they're made from DUPLO. Combat feedback is non existent and fights consist of expending resources to delete health bars. The bestiary is worse as the basic mutants are about the only interesting foe; giant spiders and psychic monkeys are dumb, the exploding droids are infuriating, the flying brains and security robots are a joke. SS1 used digitized sprites which I also dislike, but overall has a better aesthetic. The industrial design of Citidel Station is more visually interesting and unique than the Von Braun, which looks like a straight rip off of a TNG federation ship.

The unlocking panel minigames in SS1 were easy but at least they were something, vs. the one single hacking game repeated endlessly in SS2. I'm not sure how opening a lock and upgrading a shotgun are the same, but according the SS2 they are. SS2 lets you hack turrets and has an economy though, which is nice, and both games have good music (better than this remake, anyway).
Inside of the game business, SS1/2 and FO1/2 are known to not be particularly successful financially at first, but are among the ten most influential games played by the 2010-2020 era of game founders and executives.

Fallout eventually becomes highly profitable on Steam (longest running title in the top 100 sales on Steam unless it’s been supplanted in past 5 years).

But originally it only sold low six figures of units and was not a significant business success compared to Baldur’s Gate 1/2 (and SS1/2 even less so).
 

Zombra

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It's funny to me because most of the things people attribute to the "immersive sim" genre SS2 lacks. It's quite linear and lacks alternate paths almost everywhere; you really have to complete the game in the same order every time. SS2 often just forces you to walk through gauntlets of enemies and gun turrets with little in the way of side routes or even cover, and primarily is focused on resource management. I view it more as survival horror, which also makes it clear how much its systems hold it back (survival horror games do not typically have or need skill points or leveling).
oh enlighten us, arbiter of the immersive sim "genre"
There's a lot of quibbling I didn't bother to read, but GB has the right of it here. The closest thing SS2 has to different imsim playstyles and environmental decision-making is "what kind of gun am I going to kill the things with". Ammo (or okay PSI) management is by far the most important gameplay element no matter what build you're using. Survival Horror is really a much more apropos genre label for SS2.
 
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There's a lot of quibbling I didn't bother to read, but GB has the right of it here. The closest thing SS2 has to different imsim playstyles and environmental decision-making is "what kind of gun am I going to kill the things with". Ammo (or okay PSI) management is by far the most important gameplay element no matter what build you're using. Survival Horror is really a much more apropos genre label for SS2.

Can you define "immersive sim" for me please. You seem to be using an arbitrary definition.
 

Lemming42

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Playing more of the System Shock remake and, to say something nice about it for a change: the increased visual variety in areas compared to SS1 - just little things like rooms having more distinct features, like items on tables and shelves - makes the station a lot easier to navigate from memory because there's a lot more unique landmarks. They did this without sacrificing the deliberately abstract, SHODAN's-fucked-everything-up intent behind the level design.

I'm playing SS1:EE alongside the remake for a direct blow-by-blow comparison (and because the remake just really makes me want to play SS1) and while I'm generally finding SS1 wins for me in just about everything, the heightened visual fidelity of the remake really stands out as a strength it has over the original, especailly on certain decks. In some places where I got lost in SS1, I was much more able to find my way in the remake thanks pretty much entirely to the little design touches, while still getting a fun maze-like experience. The designers have done a very good job on that part.
 

Trithne

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An Immersive Sim is when First Person Immersion. Useless genre label, blah blah, there's like 50 threads that already go over this.

SS2 is an FPS/RPG Hybrid. It's a good one, but it leans very heavily into the RPG side. It's also notably more linear and directed than SS1. It's also incredibly unbalanced in the value of the RPG mechanics, without adding mods, and starts to really show the rush to get it out once you hit the Rickenbacker.

SS1 is a dungeon crawler with a cyberpunk theme. Cybernetics take the place of wizardry, and you have guns, and it came out in an era when it wasn't really uncommon for games to have arcane control schemes, particularly since Looking Glass were all about trying to simulate as much movement as possible, but unfortunately for them Doom came out like nine months earlier and everyone was still playing that. (And Doom 2 would come out like a week later than it).

SS1 eschewed the RPG side of the dungeon crawler formula in favour of theme - Classes didn't fit the cyberpunk aesthetic, and LGS were more interested in freeform classless styles anyway as seen by how UU plays. SS2 brought them back because they wanted to more tightly bind the player to the idea of character builds, while still allowing freeform build-a-class, and because RPG mechanics give you a tighter leash on expected player power level at points in the game.

SS1 is much closer to the platonic ideal of the immersive sim - Here's an environment, go figure it out. You can do shit out of order. You need to find everything and unlocking more of the station comes from more organic power gains - You get better mobility because you find the jump boots, or the rad suit. (In the OG you can detour into Maintenance and get the v2 envirosuit before getting the isotope. In the remake they prevented this). SS2 gates you on your RPG stuff. Break into the Med sub-armoury? You can't use the AR in there since it requires more exp cookies be spent on standard guns.

Yes, SS2 has tightly woven (but pretty unbalanced without modification) RPG mechanics. Is a good RPG. Is not necessarily a good direct successor to System Shock though.
 

scytheavatar

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why was/is ss2 more hyped up than ss1? ask yourself who ken levine is and who runs the gaming media and ask yourself is nepotism is involved.

It was more hyped for the same reason why the first Half Life was so hyped...... it came at a time when people were sick and tired of Doom/Quake clones. Once upon a time streamlined atmospheric FPSs were revolutionary and a breath of fresh air. Of course nowadays people are sick and tired of Half Life/SS2 clones so we have come a full circle.
 
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nowadays people are sick and tired of Half Life/SS2 clones.

God I wish enough of these would release that we would ever get sick of them.

HL/SS2 clones were never really a thing. HL inspired the storytelling style of modern games, but that's just one small part of their design now. Gameplay wise, the big thing that took the world by storm was Halo styled games, Call of Duty, and dudebro games (gears of war etc). Since about 2010 all popular shooters have been brown tactical cover based games, or sci-fi bonanzas where everyone is shooting everyone else with light guns and there's no exploration, recoil or advanced movement, just guns and grenades.
 

Lemming42

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Yeah, I always wish Half-Life clones had been a thing in the way Doom clones or Diablo clones were. You can obviously see Half-Life inspiration in everything, even outside the FPS genre, but the only game I can think of that feels like a direct Half-Life clone from start to finish is the first Red Faction, which is great (and obviously had a few new innovations and ideas of its own).
 

LarryTyphoid

Scholar
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I thought everyone loved "nah", though!
I do. It's honestly the perfect ending. SHODAN is busting your balls throughout the entire game, constantly chiding you and harassing you for everything, then she BETRAYS you. Your character's too much of a chad for her though and EASILY overcomes her pitiful attempt at betrayal. She's desperate, she's pulling out every bribe she possibly can, "PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAASE DON'T KILL MEEEEEEEEE", and all PC chad can say is "Nah". Fucking based. I rarely laugh out loud when playing a game alone but I laughed hard at SS2's ending. SHODAN gets completely humiliated, which is a perfect end for the character as an antagonist.

SHODAN wouldn't have worked as the antagonist again anyway because she was already toppled by the hacker in SS1, losing her sense of untouchable immortality, which is why SS2 replaces her with the Many for most of its duration, relegating her antagonistic section to a very short segment at the end of the game which is there to grant the player some catharsis after putting up with her insults throughout the rest of the game. This is all why SS3 is retarded for making SHODAN the villain yet AGAIN when she already got BTFO so hard (good thing that game is never ever coming out).
 
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Yeah, I always wish Half-Life clones had been a thing in the way Doom clones or Diablo clones were. You can obviously see Half-Life inspiration in everything, even outside the FPS genre, but the only game I can think of that feels like a direct Half-Life clone from start to finish is the first Red Faction, which is great (and obviously had a few new innovations and ideas of its own).

Yeah I love Red Faction, even if it is a very....rough.....game in many parts.

I really wish I could live in that alternate universe where all the SS2 clones came out and everyone was like "ugh, these complex immersive sims keep coming out, I have to keep using my brain. Can't we have something different?". To me that sounds like paradise.

The closest we got to a SS2 resurgence was the Bioshock series, which really isn't a faithful recreation of SS2 at all, it's just a few of it's gameplay mechanics stripped down until there's barely anything left, and then slapped onto a barebones shooter.

Prey is the only other SS2 inspired game I can think of, and it did badly in a market oversaturated with Call of Duty style games. People just wanted to shoot stuff.

EDIT: Goddammit, I'm here trying to defend SS2 as a valid, worthy sequel to SS1 and all these "nah" apologists are coming out of the woodwork to make my position look silly. The "nah" sucks. That entire cutscene sucks. As does the entire SHODAN level. It has always sucked and always will. There's no deeper meaning for it, and the "it's the best response given Shodan blahblah" stuff is bullshit. They slapped it in the game when they ran out of time - even by the developers own admission, it's simply a rushed ending, it has no subtext or meaning, don't try to interpret it that way, you just look silly. Instead, just enjoy the rest of the game because it's awesome, and don't try to defend the crappy ending. The closest you can get to a worthwhile experience of the endgame is playing the RSD mod to get something resembling a real bossfight, and then editing or deleting the final cutscene. Literally being dropped to the credits is better than the vanilla ending.
 

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