Vapourware Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Remake from Saber Interactive

[scytheavatar]

How is this a big project?

You hope that this is a big project, cause if it isn't then it is doomed from day 1. KOTOR isn't a long or ambitious CRPG, but it is still the proto-cinematic CRPG and would require a ton of work to remake. Especially if they are changing the combat.

And that is why I think this project is a dumb idea from the beginning. The amount of budget and effort spent on the remake could easily have gone into a KOTOR 3 instead.

 

[NecroLord]

Oh, it's a "big project"?
Like VTMB 2?

 

[Herumor]

Like VTMB 2?

I don't think anyone ever really treated VTMB2 as a big project of any sorts.

 

[Readher]

How is this a big project?

You hope that this is a big project, cause if it isn't then it is doomed from day 1. KOTOR isn't a long or ambitious CRPG, but it is still the proto-cinematic CRPG and would require a ton of work to remake. Especially if they are changing the combat.

And that is why I think this project is a dumb idea from the beginning. The amount of budget and effort spent on the remake could easily have gone into a KOTOR 3 instead.

Can't make KOTOR 3 when KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 aren't canon anymore.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Can't make KOTOR 3 when KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 aren't canon anymore.

Despite that a KOTOR3 would be better received than most Disney based Star Wars games these days.
Not sure where they would have to go with the plot though as TOR pretty effectively put an end to any follow up stories to KOTOR1 and 2. A KOTOR3 might as well have no connection with the previous games at all. And who to develop such a game? Obsidian is definitely not up for it any more. Bioware? Larian? Ehrr... pass.

 

[NecroLord]

Just let it die.
Kotor 3 can't save Disney and shouldn't be made in the first place.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Just let it die.
Kotor 3 can't save Disney and shouldn't be made in the first place.

Yeah I agree on that one. We are long past the time that a genuine sequel could have been made. If one was announced now it would be to draw in on the nostalgia. I know some fans are still asking for it but what is the point? It would have to be crammed in between KOTOR2 and TOR and not contradict the last so it would require a storyline anyway that is completely disconnected to the Revan, Exile, and the secret Sith Empire.

 

[Atlantico]

secret Sith Empire

When that is said outloud, it sounds pretty stupid

Secret Sith Empire. What the actual lmao were these dumbass larpers thinking

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Secret Sith Empire. What the actual lmao were these dumbass larpers thinking

"It's Star Wars and we have Jedi so we also need Sith."

 

[NecroLord]

Just let it die.
Kotor 3 can't save Disney and shouldn't be made in the first place.

Yeah I agree on that one. We are long past the time that a genuine sequel could have been made. If one was announced now it would be to draw in on the nostalgia. I know some fans are still asking for it but what is the point? It would have to be crammed in between KOTOR2 and TOR and not contradict the last so it would require a storyline anyway that is completely disconnected to the Revan, Exile, and the secret Sith Empire.

Filoni fucked it all up with Ahsoka and Disney keeps getting L after L.
These people just can't save Disney. Kotor 3 would make no sense narrative wise because of that absolutely atrocious Revan novel and TOR. Maybe you could make it take place on Dromund Kaas, doing quests and stuff? I don't know, but it probably won't work.

 

[Storyfag]

secret Sith Empire

When that is said outloud, it sounds pretty stupid

Secret Sith Empire. What the actual lmao were these dumbass larpers thinking

I think the idea came about back in the day of KotOR1, with Canderous mentioning secretive Sith provoking the Mandalorian Wars and then "retreating back ot their hidden worlds" or something like that. Then Obsidian picked the ball up for KotOR2 and ran with it, even coining the term True Sith. Then the ball went back to BioWare again, and we got the Sith revealing their empire to the Galaxy at large. This is *slighltly* helped by the fact that at that time a lot of hyperspace routes still remained uncharted. THEN BioWare added another ball and started juggling both of 'em, by introducing the Sith Emperor's secret "Eternal Empire" whom he kept hidden even from other Sith Lords, and which promptly bashed both the Sith Empire and the Republic into submission. That was peak retardo, everything before *could* be forgiven if you squint real hard.

 

[NecroLord]

secret Sith Empire

When that is said outloud, it sounds pretty stupid

Secret Sith Empire. What the actual lmao were these dumbass larpers thinking

I think the idea came about back in the day of KotOR1, with Canderous mentioning secretive Sith provoking the Mandalorian Wars and then "retreating back ot their hidden worlds" or something like that. Then Obsidian picked the ball up for KotOR2 and ran with it, even coining the term True Sith. Then the ball went back to BioWare again, and we got the Sith revealing their empire to the Galaxy at large. This is *slighltly* helped by the fact that at that time a lot of hyperspace routes still remained uncharted. THEN BioWare added another ball and started juggling both of 'em, by introducing the Sith Emperor's secret "Eternal Empire" whom he kept hidden even from other Sith Lords, and which promptly bashed both the Sith Empire and the Republic into submission. That was peak retardo, everything before *could* be forgiven if you squint real hard.

Mandalore also mentions the Sith Empire in Kotor 2 after you fight Nihilus (Sith Restored Content Mod only).

 

[Atlantico]

secret Sith Empire

When that is said outloud, it sounds pretty stupid

Secret Sith Empire. What the actual lmao were these dumbass larpers thinking

I think the idea came about back in the day of KotOR1, with Canderous mentioning secretive Sith provoking the Mandalorian Wars and then "retreating back ot their hidden worlds" or something like that. Then Obsidian picked the ball up for KotOR2 and ran with it, even coining the term True Sith. Then the ball went back to BioWare again, and we got the Sith revealing their empire to the Galaxy at large. This is *slighltly* helped by the fact that at that time a lot of hyperspace routes still remained uncharted. THEN BioWare added another ball and started juggling both of 'em, by introducing the Sith Emperor's secret "Eternal Empire" whom he kept hidden even from other Sith Lords, and which promptly bashed both the Sith Empire and the Republic into submission. That was peak retardo, everything before *could* be forgiven if you squint real hard.

Yes I agree the hand-me-down idea went between writing rooms and became just silly — in my mind I was picturing this in Bioware's writing room when someone reads outloud these words "secret Sith Empire" and apparently everyone clapped.

Their hidden worlds don't have to be an "Empire" for obvious reasons, and a "secret Empire" is just an oxymoron ... but well I don't have blue hair so I guess I am not qualified for writing Bioware or Nu-Star Wars.

 

[Storyfag]

"secret Empire" is just an oxymoron

I would contend that. It just can't be somethign geographical. More akin to Deep State.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Oh, it's a "big project"?
Like VTMB 2?

Nah, Vampire will be made. This way or another. But I don't believe in this project. Costs are higher than the potential interest. Besides, they may try to simplify the gameplay and castrate the plot of anything fun, but that also comes at a cost. And not only financially, but also creatively.

 

[Atlantico]

"secret Empire" is just an oxymoron

I would contend that. It just can't be somethign geographical. More akin to Deep State.

A secret Sith cabal within the republic is perfectly reasonable as a story device, it's the name that makes me cringe — since it then implies that "Empire" has a distinct meaning and that Sith always create "Empires" they just can't help themselves and "Empires" don't have to be overt, they apparently can be secret. It's an abuse of the language and stretches the definition of the word "Empire" beyond reason.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

secret Sith Empire

When that is said outloud, it sounds pretty stupid

Secret Sith Empire. What the actual lmao were these dumbass larpers thinking

I think the idea came about back in the day of KotOR1, with Canderous mentioning secretive Sith provoking the Mandalorian Wars and then "retreating back ot their hidden worlds" or something like that. Then Obsidian picked the ball up for KotOR2 and ran with it, even coining the term True Sith. Then the ball went back to BioWare again, and we got the Sith revealing their empire to the Galaxy at large. This is *slighltly* helped by the fact that at that time a lot of hyperspace routes still remained uncharted. THEN BioWare added another ball and started juggling both of 'em, by introducing the Sith Emperor's secret "Eternal Empire" whom he kept hidden even from other Sith Lords, and which promptly bashed both the Sith Empire and the Republic into submission. That was peak retardo, everything before *could* be forgiven if you squint real hard.

All the stuff in the Knights of the Old Republic games (and I’d guess the Old Republic MMORPG for that matter) are using the old Tales of the Jedi comics as an inspiration. When the first game was in development there was a lot of talk about those comics, think it may have even been announced as a Tales of the Jedi game at first.

Stuff like Korriban, the Valley of the Dark Lords, and most of the Sith the temples belong to are taken from that comic series. It’s too bad they didn’t take more from the series. The Tales of the Jedi have more of their own distinct look, being that they take place long before any of the movies, and have an even more pulp version of the Star Wars aesthetic.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

secret Sith Empire

When that is said outloud, it sounds pretty stupid

Secret Sith Empire. What the actual lmao were these dumbass larpers thinking

I think the idea came about back in the day of KotOR1, with Canderous mentioning secretive Sith provoking the Mandalorian Wars and then "retreating back ot their hidden worlds" or something like that. Then Obsidian picked the ball up for KotOR2 and ran with it, even coining the term True Sith. Then the ball went back to BioWare again, and we got the Sith revealing their empire to the Galaxy at large. This is *slighltly* helped by the fact that at that time a lot of hyperspace routes still remained uncharted. THEN BioWare added another ball and started juggling both of 'em, by introducing the Sith Emperor's secret "Eternal Empire" whom he kept hidden even from other Sith Lords, and which promptly bashed both the Sith Empire and the Republic into submission. That was peak retardo, everything before *could* be forgiven if you squint real hard.

All the stuff in the Knights of the Old Republic games (and I’d guess the Old Republic MMORPG for that matter) are using the old Tales of the Jedi comics as an inspiration. When the first game was in development there was a lot of talk about those comics, think it may have even been announced as a Tales of the Jedi game at first.

Stuff like Korriban, the Valley of the Dark Lords, and most of the Sith the temples belong to are taken from that comic series. It’s too bad they didn’t take more from the series. The Tales of the Jedi have more of their own distinct look, being that they take place long before any of the movies, and have an even more pulp version of the Star Wars aesthetic.

Perhaps because only the covers looked good.

 

[NecroLord]

secret Sith Empire

When that is said outloud, it sounds pretty stupid

Secret Sith Empire. What the actual lmao were these dumbass larpers thinking

I think the idea came about back in the day of KotOR1, with Canderous mentioning secretive Sith provoking the Mandalorian Wars and then "retreating back ot their hidden worlds" or something like that. Then Obsidian picked the ball up for KotOR2 and ran with it, even coining the term True Sith. Then the ball went back to BioWare again, and we got the Sith revealing their empire to the Galaxy at large. This is *slighltly* helped by the fact that at that time a lot of hyperspace routes still remained uncharted. THEN BioWare added another ball and started juggling both of 'em, by introducing the Sith Emperor's secret "Eternal Empire" whom he kept hidden even from other Sith Lords, and which promptly bashed both the Sith Empire and the Republic into submission. That was peak retardo, everything before *could* be forgiven if you squint real hard.

All the stuff in the Knights of the Old Republic games (and I’d guess the Old Republic MMORPG for that matter) are using the old Tales of the Jedi comics as an inspiration. When the first game was in development there was a lot of talk about those comics, think it may have even been announced as a Tales of the Jedi game at first.

Stuff like Korriban, the Valley of the Dark Lords, and most of the Sith the temples belong to are taken from that comic series. It’s too bad they didn’t take more from the series. The Tales of the Jedi have more of their own distinct look, being that they take place long before any of the movies, and have an even more pulp version of the Star Wars aesthetic.

There is even a Tales of the Jedi Star Wars D6 campaign.
Pretty good stuff.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Filoni fucked it all up with Ahsoka and Disney keeps getting L after L.
These people just can't save Disney. Kotor 3 would make no sense narrative wise because of that absolutely atrocious Revan novel and TOR. Maybe you could make it take place on Dromund Kaas, doing quests and stuff? I don't know, but it probably won't work.

I don't understand the fans embrace of Filoni. The guy has had no original idea of himself, instead recycling from the 'Legends' universe despite that Disney wanted to break with it because they felt it limited creativity. And inserting his own waifus into it.

I forgot about the Revan novel Karpyshyn had made, to basically eliminate Kotor2 and steal the idea of Darth Nihilus for his own so more interesting emperor Vitiate, possibly because he felt that his own ideas were overshadowed by those of the Kotor2 team.
Kotor 3 would only have worked if there was still only Kotor 1 and 2 to build on and only if it had been made three to five years after Kotor 2 was published. It is dead now.

by introducing the Sith Emperor's secret "Eternal Empire" whom he kept hidden even from other Sith Lords

That was peak stupid, the even more secret secret empire that basically came and went. Then there were the mystery aliens who not only built a fully automated fleet and droid army, but also built dozens of superweapons, and even a Dyson sphere, something no other culture in SW has been able to do afterwards. It would never be talked about after again.


Regarding the Tales of the Jedi series. It was indeed a source of inspiration for the first KOTOR1 but I am honestly glad the designers never went for the style and aesthetics of that in the comics as I always found it so very ugly looking.

 

[NecroLord]

Kotor 3 would only have worked if there was still only Kotor 1 and 2 to build on and only if it had been made three to five years after Kotor 2 was published. It is dead now.

You, sir, are absolutely correct.
I forgot to mention, there is also a pretty solid SW D6 campaign for The Old Republic (yeah, the MMO itself).
Vitiate was really dumb. Has got Darth Nihilus written all over him, except he wasn't a wound in the Force.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Vitiate was really dumb. Has got Darth Nihilus written all over him, except he wasn't a wound in the Force.

I feel that when Drew Karpyshyn read that details about Darth Nihilus that he immediately thought of nicking that for his own emperor Vitiate character but made it about harvesting the Force from worlds to become a god. The plot of absorbing other people's life force to ascent to godhood is not even that new. It probably happened in some fantasy stories and D&D campaigns. I remember reading about it myself in the Full Metal Alchemist manga in which a homunculus was using alchemy to raise its own state of existence.

 

[Storyfag]

secret Sith Empire

When that is said outloud, it sounds pretty stupid

Secret Sith Empire. What the actual lmao were these dumbass larpers thinking

I think the idea came about back in the day of KotOR1, with Canderous mentioning secretive Sith provoking the Mandalorian Wars and then "retreating back ot their hidden worlds" or something like that. Then Obsidian picked the ball up for KotOR2 and ran with it, even coining the term True Sith. Then the ball went back to BioWare again, and we got the Sith revealing their empire to the Galaxy at large. This is *slighltly* helped by the fact that at that time a lot of hyperspace routes still remained uncharted. THEN BioWare added another ball and started juggling both of 'em, by introducing the Sith Emperor's secret "Eternal Empire" whom he kept hidden even from other Sith Lords, and which promptly bashed both the Sith Empire and the Republic into submission. That was peak retardo, everything before *could* be forgiven if you squint real hard.

All the stuff in the Knights of the Old Republic games (and I’d guess the Old Republic MMORPG for that matter) are using the old Tales of the Jedi comics as an inspiration. When the first game was in development there was a lot of talk about those comics, think it may have even been announced as a Tales of the Jedi game at first.

Stuff like Korriban, the Valley of the Dark Lords, and most of the Sith the temples belong to are taken from that comic series. It’s too bad they didn’t take more from the series. The Tales of the Jedi have more of their own distinct look, being that they take place long before any of the movies, and have an even more pulp version of the Star Wars aesthetic.

Obviously. But at the time of KotOR1 the Sith Empire has made contact with the Republic 1000 years ago and was devastated in that war. Anything remaining of it as a "hidden empire" is purely BioWare's idea.

 

[NecroLord]

Vitiate was really dumb. Has got Darth Nihilus written all over him, except he wasn't a wound in the Force.

I feel that when Drew Karpyshyn read that details about Darth Nihilus that he immediately thought of nicking that for his own emperor Vitiate character but made it about harvesting the Force from worlds to become a god. The plot of absorbing other people's life force to ascent to godhood is not even that new. It probably happened in some fantasy stories and D&D campaigns. I remember read about it myself in the Full Metal Alchemist manga in which a homunculus was using alchemy to raise its own state of existence.

Yeah, it's some fancy necromantic stuff.
Nihilus was a badass compared to Vitiate.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Vitiate is a fanfic-tier character. Drew decided to fabricate from wholecloth a being supposedly tied to the Old Sith Empire, an important figure of which there is no prior mention in that material, and have it take center stage as the supreme leader of the empire in exile. We're meant to just take for granted that some rando jumped the ranks ahead of all the other lords that were named in the comics, (some of which probably survived the disaster) and that this new character also had no ambition to insert himself in galactic affairs at the time of the Sith's best chance at victory, the moment when they were sieging the core. Further, the feeble excuse given for this is because Vitiate was *somehow* prescient enough to see that Sadow's adventuring would lead to ruin and that Kressh wasn't capable of holding back the tide. If Vitiate really was the most capable Sith at the time could have easily outmaneuvered Kressh and assumed control of that faction. Would have been easy to discredit Ludo as he had a deep personal investment in seeing Sadow destroyed after he got ass-raped at Khar Delba.

Then they go even further by taking all the raw power of Force Hunger and just flat out ignore all the negative addictive side effects that occur when relying too heavily upon it. It's just wish-fulfilment fantasy. The issue isn't even godlike-power it's that there are no consequences and any weaknesses are just as unbelievable. Revan's centuries-long captivity for instance is one of the most retarded ideas ever conceived in Star Wars.

Yes... after being dominated by the true Dark Lord of the Sith, the being that can jump bodies over millennia spending lifetimes as a painter or a farmer, gaining all knowledge of every walk of life, a guy who was disciplined enough to patiently craft a thousand-year conspiracy to return and destroy all his enemies *somehow!* had his will subverted by Revan, a failed Sith Lord turned Jedi, a guy who thought it was a fine idea to leave an insubordinate apprentice on a leash and in doing so, grasped defeat from the jaws of victory. There is no overlooking this nonsense.