Review RPG Codex Review: Darth Roxor on Disappointment, thy name is Pillars of Eternity

[ArchAngel]

Stop being a bitch. Either explain your assertions or sit the fuck down.

Its simple, Hiver has played tons of skyrim, ergo he is a consoletard who doesn't understand what makes a true rpg good. I haven't seen him make these comments that people allude to but he's the most ignored person on here, second being roguey, so many people apparently hold him in contempt.

I'll take a roguey or a Hiver anyday over someone who just randomly drops assertions and leaves it at that. At least they make some kind of pretense of explaining themselves and have the strength of their convictions.

You just need to visit more topics and spend more time here. I was a lurker on Codex for a long time and Hiver was hiving everywhere.

I rate Hiver as worth about 6 of you. Read my comment which you quoted if you have some trouble understanding this.

 

[Hatred]

Stop being a bitch. Either explain your assertions or sit the fuck down.

Its simple, Hiver has played tons of skyrim, ergo he is a consoletard who doesn't understand what makes a true rpg good. I haven't seen him make these comments that people allude to but he's the most ignored person on here, second being roguey, so many people apparently hold him in contempt.

I'll take a roguey or a Hiver anyday over someone who just randomly drops assertions and leaves it at that. At least they make some kind of pretense of explaining themselves and have the strength of their convictions.

You just need to visit more topics and spend more time here. I was a lurker on Codex for a long time and Hiver was hiving everywhere.

I rate Hiver as worth about 6 of you. Read my comment which you quoted if you have some trouble understanding this.

Done with you mate https://www.facebook.com/AustralianSpirit

 

[Ulrox]

So just randomly thinking about Josh Sawyer (again). I think Josh is missing something human in his ability to understand why people like certain elements of gaming.

I've always argued with my friends that Josh might be an asberger at heart.

It seems like this is true of many different games developers these days, but yes we are on the same page. I liked pillars (as I've said a few times) but my biggest pet peeve is the combat and the lack of hardcounters. Your post illustrates why this sucks pretty well. DnD water down spells is very unfun.

Not to mention that this very 'balanced' rpg is not balanced at all. The wizard for instance has 1-2 spells that are waaay too overpowered compared to every other spell on that spell level. Others have pointed out that guns, arquebusses and estocs are op, and in general ranged combat is op.

My hope is that with expansions and PoE 2 they're forced to start using hardcounters because they realise how stale the combat has become.

 

[roshan]

Yeah, I too don't understand why people vote for games I don't like. It's like they do it to spite me or something.

I read a couple of pages of the thread in the Obsidian forums regarding Roxor's review. Funnily enough, most of the posts are Obsidian fans agreeing with the review. When people in fan forums are able to display a more critical eye than Codexers, you have to admit that there's certainly been a massive drop in the quality of the forum population here over the years. This used to be a site about advocating for better RPGs, now instead it's a gathering point for bootlickers.

 

[ArchAngel]

Stop being a bitch. Either explain your assertions or sit the fuck down.

Its simple, Hiver has played tons of skyrim, ergo he is a consoletard who doesn't understand what makes a true rpg good. I haven't seen him make these comments that people allude to but he's the most ignored person on here, second being roguey, so many people apparently hold him in contempt.

I'll take a roguey or a Hiver anyday over someone who just randomly drops assertions and leaves it at that. At least they make some kind of pretense of explaining themselves and have the strength of their convictions.

You just need to visit more topics and spend more time here. I was a lurker on Codex for a long time and Hiver was hiving everywhere.

I rate Hiver as worth about 6 of you. Read my comment which you quoted if you have some trouble understanding this.

Done with you mate https://www.facebook.com/AustralianSpirit

 

[tuluse]

Magic is supposed to be... rare, special and should be fairly obvious when it is being implemented.

So nothing like AD&D as depicted in the IE games then.

 

[Irenaeus]

Yeah, I too don't understand why people vote for games I don't like. It's like they do it to spite me or something.

I read a couple of pages of the thread in the Obsidian forums regarding Roxor's review. Funnily enough, most of the posts are Obsidian fans agreeing with the review. When people in fan forums are able to display a more critical eye than Codexers, you have to admit that there's certainly been a massive drop in the quality of the forum population here over the years. This used to be a site about advocating for better RPGs, now instead it's a gathering point for bootlickers.

I don't believe anything you write.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Magic is supposed to be... rare, special and should be fairly obvious when it is being implemented.

So nothing like AD&D as depicted in the IE games then.

I disagree. Maybe its because I grew up playing D&D and so am more easily familiar with the spells... but to me the D&D spells were not so convoluted and were easy to understand and more straightforward in their effects. Moreover they tended to do things you would expect magic spells to do, like turn things to stone, create webs, shoot magic arrows, blind, paralyze, make you stronger, bigger, smaller, or resistant to things.

The point is that Josh Sawyer outlawing 'hard counters' makes for a magic system where things only sort of partially happen and it becomes a convoluted mess. What seems to end up happening when spells are offensively used against you is that you just sort of power through them and try to ignore them as best you can because you can't counter them, and they won't do too much to you anyhow.... and besides that, whatever minor effects that do occur will end in a few seconds anyway. This means they don't really change game-play, and to me they just are tedious to cast and a mere nuisance you can't really do anything about if cast upon you.

For me that does not create the proper type of environment and feeling surrounding magic, it makes it mundane.

 

[Sceptic]

Thanking you for bringing up my MMX review, that's all I needed to cement this thread into Best Ever status.

Despite it not delivering on all expectations, I'll still rate is as a must-read

 

[Ulrox]

For me that does not create the proper type of environment and feeling surrounding magic, it makes it mundane.

Agree, but Tuluse is talking about high magic and low magic settings, and PoE and Forgotten realms are both high magic settings so this wording;

Magic is supposed to be... rare, special and should be fairly obvious when it is being implemented.

The word rare should go away, because magic is anything but rare in forgotten realms, otherwise your point is pretty good and I agree as said.

 

[Lhynn]

Magic is supposed to be... rare, special and should be fairly obvious when it is being implemented.

So nothing like AD&D as depicted in the IE games then.

Unno, i got those feels while playing BG 1 and going to the fair near nashkel, or when getting to that map with petrified people and a talking ghoul.

BG1 made magic feel largely speshul and impactful, not rare tho, but thats forgotten realms for you. BGII made it feel powerful and epic, something larger than life. They both worked well.

In PoE, when it came time to build my party i used old PnP characters for at least half the party, and my mage got turned into a druid, because they work better as mages than mages themselves, the whole thing feels dry and grey and irrelevant in the world, like mages dont belong in the world.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

So just randomly thinking about Josh Sawyer (again). I think Josh is missing something human in his ability to understand why people like certain elements of gaming.

I've always argued with my friends that Josh might be an asberger at heart.

It seems like this is true of many different games developers these days, but yes we are on the same page. I liked pillars (as I've said a few times) but my biggest pet peeve is the combat and the lack of hardcounters. Your post illustrates why this sucks pretty well. DnD water down spells is very unfun.

Not to mention that this very 'balanced' rpg is not balanced at all. The wizard for instance has 1-2 spells that are waaay too overpowered compared to every other spell on that spell level. Others have pointed out that guns, arquebusses and estocs are op, and in general ranged combat is op.

My hope is that with expansions and PoE 2 they're forced to start using hardcounters because they realise how stale the combat has become.

I do think Josh might be slightly 'touched' with some degree of autistic behaviors and thinking patterns. It seems to be more and more common, probably from kids now constantly interacting with glowing rectangles from the time they are hatched.

anyway..

Ranged combat is almost always over powered to the point that in most party based RPG's I end up only allowing one or at most two characters to use ranged weapons, and even then I will have them forgo their use most of the time... also I won't use the acid or fire arrows etc, except in boss fights etc..

 

[Lurker King]

Core of the issue? "Old farts suck"? So no good games have been made by veterans? Damn, if that is the case the aging game industry might be to blame for the Decline itself!

No, people without passion suck. Especially if you are tired and lost the capacity of having fun with challenging games that reward proper skill and effort. Naturally, you assume that everyone must be like you and start to make everything more simplistic, accessible and bland in result. Although, I think is safe to say that Obsidian is not known for making great combat systems in the past.

In my opinion they didn't take the Kickstarter project seriously enough.

But they did. Some of the problems results from lack of time, not Josh’s philosophy.

 

[Ulrox]

In PoE, when it came time to build my party i used old characters for at least half the party, and my mage got turned into a druid, because they work better as mages than mages themselves, the whole thing feels dry and grey and irrelevant in the world, like mages dont belong in the world.

Agree, which is why I wondered if they tuned the spells to cast more slowly and allowed for spell failure - but the buffed the power of the spells, if It would bring some of that forgotten realm magic back. Atleast at some point someone is going to release a combat rebalancing mod (probably several) that will fix this issue, but this is probably far into the future.

 

[tuluse]

Unno, i got those feels while playing BG 1 and going to the fair near nashkel, or when getting to that map with petrified people and a talking ghoul.

BG1 made magic feel largely speshul and impactful, not rare tho, but thats forgotten realms for you. BGII made it feel powerful and epic, something larger than life. They both worked well.

In PoE, when it came time to build my party i used old characters for at least half the party, and my mage got turned into a druid, because they work better as mages than mages themselves, the whole thing feels dry and grey and irrelevant in the world, like mages dont belong in the world.

Was magic "rare" in any IE game?

fuck no, it's all over the place

Was magic "special"?

I suppose it's up to interpretation, but again what you can't walk 10 feet without running into a magic user, item, or creature, I'd say no, it's no longer special.

Was magic "fairly obvious" when it was "implemented" in IE games?

Not always, there were some well done and some poorly done subtle magics.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

For me that does not create the proper type of environment and feeling surrounding magic, it makes it mundane.

Agree, but Tuluse is talking about high magic and low magic settings, and PoE and Forgotten realms are both high magic settings so this wording;

Magic is supposed to be... rare, special and should be fairly obvious when it is being implemented.

The word rare should go away, because magic is anything but rare in forgotten realms, otherwise your point is pretty good and I agree as said.

ah, thats true.

Its not rare at all in BG1 or 2, I understand how he means it now. I actually wish it were much more rare in most RPG's. I guess in PoE it may in fact be more rare, its just not that special or interesting. Or more to the point its convoluted because of the no hard counters and because it feels like it is being managed too much to make it 'blanced' or something.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yeah, I too don't understand why people vote for games I don't like. It's like they do it to spite me or something.

I read a couple of pages of the thread in the Obsidian forums regarding Roxor's review. Funnily enough, most of the posts are Obsidian fans agreeing with the review. When people in fan forums are able to display a more critical eye than Codexers, you have to admit that there's certainly been a massive drop in the quality of the forum population here over the years. This used to be a site about advocating for better RPGs, now instead it's a gathering point for bootlickers.

I didn't read every page but it seems that many if not most people here agree with some if not all points mentioned by Roxor, so what seems to be the problem?

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I was re-playing BG 1 now to check if PoE improved over it. I must agree with magic sucking in PoE. At the beginning in BG every spell had an impact. That assassin wizard in Friendly Arm is a real pain in the butt, casting entangle at right moment can change the battle, and so can sanctuary. I mean casting a single spell, once. In PoE in almost every combat I'm spamming abilities like there was no tommorrow. Shooting fireballs like Goku, casting blind after blind after blind etc. A single spell in PoE never has any impact, which makes magic feel very weak.

 

[tuluse]

ah, thats true.

Its not rare at all in BG1 or 2, I understand how he means it now. I actually wish it were much more rare in most RPG's. I guess in PoE it may in fact be more rare, its just not that special or interesting. Or more to the point its convoluted because of the no hard counters and because it feels like it is being managed too much to make it 'blanced' or something.

If you want an RPG with rare magic check out Age of Decadence.

 

[Blaine]

Infravision and Detect Evil are my favorite spells from the IE games. Man, they're useful!

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

ah, thats true.

Its not rare at all in BG1 or 2, I understand how he means it now. I actually wish it were much more rare in most RPG's. I guess in PoE it may in fact be more rare, its just not that special or interesting. Or more to the point its convoluted because of the no hard counters and because it feels like it is being managed too much to make it 'blanced' or something.

If you want an RPG with rare magic check out Age of Decadence.

Defiantly am, I just am waiting until Thursday-- don't like playing early release stuff. I have played the combat demo and seen enough to know that I will enjoy the game I think.

Age of Decadence and underrail are the two RPG's I am waiting for most at the moment.

 

[evdk]

Can you retardo News & Content threads?

Codex 2.0's finest hour should not be forgotten.

 

[Lhynn]

Yeah, I too don't understand why people vote for games I don't like. It's like they do it to spite me or something.

I read a couple of pages of the thread in the Obsidian forums regarding Roxor's review. Funnily enough, most of the posts are Obsidian fans agreeing with the review. When people in fan forums are able to display a more critical eye than Codexers, you have to admit that there's certainly been a massive drop in the quality of the forum population here over the years. This used to be a site about advocating for better RPGs, now instead it's a gathering point for bootlickers.

I didn't read every page but it seems that many if not most people here agree with some if not all points mentioned by Roxor, so what seems to be the problem?

It doesnt matter how many people agree with roxor, as long as Irenaeus doesnt agree its all pointless, his is the opinion that matters the most.

 

[Ulrox]

I didn't read every page but it seems that many if not most people here agree with some if not all points mentioned by Roxor, so what seems to be the problem?

Just someone wanting to be an edgelord. Also 'I' read every page, and it is entirely as you said, most agree with some if not all points Roxor made. I also read about 18 pages of that obsidian thread, and it seems like there's more people there who doesn't care about Roxor's opinion based on ad hominem. The only thing I 'will' say is that the obsidian forum dweller's arguments seem better defended by argument exept for a large amount of them simply dismissing Roxor's review.

If there's a forum that is decline it would be something awful from what I've read on here.

 

[Seari]

I do think Josh might be slightly 'touched' with some degree of autistic behaviors and thinking patterns.