Red Dead Redemption 2: Good or shit?

[unseeingeye]

But really, the most important take away here is this: you think RDR2 is a masterpiece, because you liked it
And that's fine
Just don't go around writting essays that it possess an excepcional quality that can't be found in other games, because that isn't true...

At this point I'd prefer to keep germane to the thread in a more focused capacity, though I acknowledge my part in exacerbating these trifling digressions. What I do wish to address is that the exceptional qualities this game has that isn't present in any others that I'm familiar with, beyond the sheer numbers and effort involved, are for me the artistic intangibles and attempting to describe them is what I was most keen on trying to share. I'd attempted to express some measure of that awesome qualia that arose in me a few pages back in my delineating the minutiae the compounding of which led to such euphoric sensory overload. Certain moments I've had while playing it approach childhood states of awe and wonder that I simply have not experienced in any other throughout my adult life, moments created amidst perpetual imminence purely by fortuitous serendipity through the converging of hundreds, perhaps thousands of dynamic variables aligning in harmony to elicit feelings that are otherwise only rarely evoked by paintings or inspired music. Moments that emerge within an interactive simulation so well designed to where the boundary between myself and the games world, the very interface between mind and model, almost entirely dissolved. I recognize that my enthusiasm for this sort of interaction with a game is unusual, and lament where communication is wholly ineffective.

Similar to actually going out and just existing for a time in nature, the amount of information being presented on screen at any given moment can be overwhelming should you step out of the action and allow your attention to dilate and just watch, and listen to what is going on in the environment. Many open-world games I've played before have had absorbing sonic landscapes and convincing ambient backdrops, but in no other have I been able to consistently identity and focus on one single, peculiar sound or sight amongst innumerable others, track it to its source and discover an actual insect, a frog, a bird, &c going about its business so believably. The flora and fauna are so diverse and so well articulated with the wildlife adhering to diurnal and nocturnal cycles and behaving in very complex ways. This gets trivialized as "horse balls and snow deformation mechanics" but it is truly an unprecedented realization of detail involved. I've encountered two dogs play-fighting, opposing rams or bucks colliding antlers to antlers, predators fighting over territorial or mating disputes, cats chasing birds or tiny rodents, hundreds of examples of this kind of thing. To me, these are exceptional qualities that cannot be found in other games, at least not to this degree.

The sheer number of animals and the potential animations for each one of them is truly remarkable, and the same goes for Arthur and other NPCs. One of the coolest things I've ever experienced in a game is to have Arthur survive a Grizzly bear attack. The animations of this are so convincing and intense, and there are actually multiples ways this can play out (obviously in real life you almost certainly would die if you tried to fight back). Missing the shot and desperately trying to reload as the bear knocks him to the ground sending the gun flying, as it starts clawing apart his chest and stomach and trying to bite his midsection or throat as Arthur wildly kicks and struggles before reaching his hunting knife and burying it in the side of the bears neck then wavering to shoot it in the head in the briefest of windows where the beast is momentarily stunned. The first time it happened I lowered the controller assuming I was just watching a dying animation, but then the controls showed up making me realize I could actually try and have him survive this encounter and when I managed to kill it and looked at a collapsed Arthur drenched in blood with claw marks all over struggling to breathe next to the heaping, bloodied mass of fur and fangs, I was seriously impressed. The suggestion that the game world is barren is once again simply not true; it may lack the kind of action packed events or opportunities to be heroic around every corner that some might prefer, but to say that there is nothing is incorrect. But I fear I'm beating a dead horse here so I'll leave it off there.

 

[unseeingeye]

Its a valid criticism but I enjoy that slow pace of this type of game and how quests are staggered. What I use to do is it not initiate quests and just randomly explore and do other other activities. So it worked for me but I can understand its not appealing for everyone

This is precisely what I do, I intentionally will sometimes go in-game weeks at a time between main story missions during much of the second and third chapter, and a significant part of the fourth chapter before shit hits the rails and the narrative becomes so focused that you are relatively locked-in across the end of the fourth chapter to the beginning of the sixth. That isn't to say that the fifth chapter has no free roaming or opportunity to break from the story, it certainly does but without spoiling it I will just say that you are in an entirely different, disconnected world space that although fairly massive in size clearly had major content cuts due to overreaching ambition, so it I find it is best to be prepared to spend two hours or so to dedicate to finishing those story missions. Chapter 5 contains some amazing scenes and music and has some brilliant moments but overall it is I think the weakest point in the game because of how much had to be cut to finish the game. Given the pacing of the rest of the game being relatively slow and largely up to the player to determine, it is an odd sort of disjointed interruption. But fortunately it is brief and bookended by two very different but widely expansive parts of the game wherein the bulk of the content is explored.

The slow pace of the game is a major part of the appeal for me, but only because I so thoroughly love the varied environments and the encounters and activities encountered throughout them, and I also am very fond of Arthur as a protagonist. As someone else again mistakenly mentioned, it is not a surface level understanding of a Western nor is the depiction of its era exclusively that of satire; in fact the satirical aspects are mainly encountered in certain individual NPCs during missions, where in free roaming the map the realization of the late 19th century Old Northwest (parts of the modern Mid West), the eastern extremities of the West proper, the deep South and of Appalachia is very well depicted. It isn't a 'historical' game the way Kingdom Come Deliverance is, but then I'm not aware of any other game of that kind that adheres to historicity as thoroughly as that game does, but it has far more than a superficial recreation of the pseudo-territories it portrays. Only the epilogue of the game actually takes place in the West, the majority of it takes place in the central plains, the deep south and along the Appalachian region. While there are a few anachronisms such as one or two guns and I think two horse breeds, so many details from the animals and regional plants and trees to the architecture, clothing, engineering, marketing and advertising styles, etc are very well researched and recreaed.

 

[JDR13]

Which control scheme is less shitty? Are most people using a gamepad for this?

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

I heard it was good but tbh I'm too cheap to play it

 

[BruceVC]

Which control scheme is less shitty? Are most people using a gamepad for this?

No, M\KB is better for me

 

[BruceVC]

I heard it was good but tbh I'm too cheap to play it

Give it a try, lets all agree on something. If you dont like it then you can come and rage and complain on Codex about it. That should negate the possible financial loss and frustration?

 

[SlamDunk]

Which control scheme is less shitty? Are most people using a gamepad for this?

Mouse and keyboard works great.

 

[dreughjiggers]

Jerry Seinfeld's fur coat and manbag the video game.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

I heard it was good but tbh I'm too cheap to play it

Give it a try, lets all agree on something. If you dont like it then you can come and rage and complain on Codex about it. That should negate the possible financial loss and frustration?

Sure I'll try it out but I doubt very much I'll pay for it

 

[NecroLord]

BruceVC, what did you think of the gameplay and pace of the game?

I honestly couldn't stand either, everything just felt SO sluggish and slow, so I'm wondering if you disagree with that and found it fun, or just put up with it for the rest of the stuff you enjoyed?

Its a valid criticism but I enjoy that slow pace of this type of game and how quests are staggered. What I use to do is it not initiate quests and just randomly explore and do other other activities. So it worked for me but I can understand its not appealing for everyone

Do you enjoy GTA games?

Not since GTA Vice City. Vice City gave me what I want from such a game - 80's high-T action meshed with an amazing soundtrack and some great nods to some timeless movies. Everything after that tried to be too much of a life-sim, and Saints-Row became my go-to for such thrills.

It's awesome because of its 80s theme and aesthetic. Soundtrack is also pure 80s awesomeness (but it does contain some earlier songs from the 70s, I believe).
Best GTA game, by far.

 

[Falksi]

BruceVC, what did you think of the gameplay and pace of the game?

I honestly couldn't stand either, everything just felt SO sluggish and slow, so I'm wondering if you disagree with that and found it fun, or just put up with it for the rest of the stuff you enjoyed?

Its a valid criticism but I enjoy that slow pace of this type of game and how quests are staggered. What I use to do is it not initiate quests and just randomly explore and do other other activities. So it worked for me but I can understand its not appealing for everyone

Do you enjoy GTA games?

Not since GTA Vice City. Vice City gave me what I want from such a game - 80's high-T action meshed with an amazing soundtrack and some great nods to some timeless movies. Everything after that tried to be too much of a life-sim, and Saints-Row became my go-to for such thrills.

It's awesome because of its 80s theme and aesthetic. Soundtrack is also pure 80s awesomeness (but it does contain some earlier songs from the 70s, I believe).
Best GTA game, by far.

Yup!

Rockstar don't know how to make games any more, they're fucking shit now, but I would love to see someone give us a 70's style GTA/Saints Row game. I'm fucking amazed that no-one has to be honest (unless I've missed it?)

Starsky & Hutch, Disco, Funk, Punk, Classic Rock, flares, hippies etc. A game purely based on that flavour would rule. Certainly way more than that nig-nog shit they gave us in San Andreas, and that Ready Salted wank they served up in GTA4

 

[unseeingeye]

Which control scheme is less shitty? Are most people using a gamepad for this?

I use a controller, one of the fancier Xbox One kinds that I got on a sale at one point, but my wife just started playing it recently (about a week and a half ago) and only uses mouse and keyboard so far. She has a controller too and has used it in the past for different games, and I told her that in my opinion this game feels much more enjoyable with one, but she is satisfied with her mouse and keyboard setup and I'll be interested to see if she stays with it especially during the more demanding parts of the game, or when traversing the city on horseback.

When I first bought the game for my computer I did initially try playing it with mouse and keyboard and in the early parts it wasn't an issue, but before I got to the more difficult stages I'd gotten that controller in the meantime and switched over to it. Maybe it is because I initially played the game through to completion on an Xbox One back when it first released, but there are a few key controls that are constantly used which for me come much more naturally with a controller, to a point it is almost without thought. One of the most common is the key that locks onto specific targets so that you may interact with them directly, so to greet or antagonize them, to rob them, to study horses and other animals, or when in shops to browse their catalogue or sell them items, &c. On a controller the default button for this is the left trigger, which is so convenient given its position if you hold your controller similarly to how I do.

This becomes especially intensive when you are out hunting on horseback, say if you're trying to get a clean kill in order to retain the 3 star quality of a perfect pelt on a small game animal like a squirrel or a rabbit, something that makes the choice between using a .22 rifle or a bow with small game arrows somewhat ambiguous. You need to maintain speed on your horse while dodging brush and trees, focus on the animal to 'track' it should you lose sight of it, then call up the weapon wheel to equip the appropriate one, and finally be able to either use up your deadeye meter to slow time down or with practice be able to aim proficiently enough to where you can line a head or heart shot up. Having to maintain focus on so many moving parts at once can be a challenge and I find that with the controller it is much easier. Aiming, either down sights in first person or more simply in third person, is much more exact with a mouse, but there are a bunch of options in the menus that you can adjust and even fine tune to where the shooting is very smooth and the camera control likewise has a bunch of variables to adjust. Most games I prefer to use a mouse and keyboard, but this is one that I make an exception for.

 

[SlamDunk]

I use a controller, one of the fancier Xbox One kinds that I got on a sale at one point, but my wife just started playing it recently (about a week and a half ago) and only uses mouse and keyboard so far. She has a controller too and has used it in the past for different games, and I told her that in my opinion this game feels much more enjoyable with one, but she is satisfied with her mouse and keyboard setup and I'll be interested to see if she stays with it especially during the more demanding parts of the game, or when traversing the city on horseback.

Is your wife single?

 

[Ivan]

 

[unseeingeye]

Is your wife single?

Is your life miserable?

 

[unseeingeye]

SlamDunk no I'm not serious, your well being means less to me than mine does to you.

 

[SlamDunk]

unseeingeye

This is blatantly off-topic, but... learn to take a joke, man. You'll live a longer and happier life, that way.

Also, I suggest that you do something about that obviously insecure marriage of yours. If a harmless joke puts you in that kind of a mode there's bound to be some deep issues going on with your marriage.

 

[unseeingeye]

unseeingeye

This is blatantly off-topic, but... learn to take a joke, man. You'll live a longer and happier life, that way.

Also, I suggest that you do something about that obviously insecure marriage of yours. If a harmless joke puts you in that kind of a mode there's bound to be some deep issues going on with your marriage.

Lol I've been happily married for 19 years, your joke didn't put me in any mode. You're reading into a comment something that isn't there, as I evidently did into yours.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

I bet your wife is 400 lbs and has hands the size of hams.

 

[unseeingeye]

I bet your wife is 400 lbs and has hands the size of hams.

Actually I made her up, in reality I'm a just lonely, impotent, middle aged, overweight and sedentary virgin with an inferiority complex exacerbated by my supremely receded hairline and rotund, protruding breasts, with my fingers exercised in the effeminacy of clicking emojis the only muscle development in my smooth and unblemished, and obese body. Oh wait, my apologies, that's you.

 

[Theodora]

Which control scheme is less shitty? Are most people using a gamepad for this?

It was designed for controllers, and I'd recommend that tbh. First person was an afterthought, and its control were built around the slight auto-aim it has with a gamepad. So active was this preference, that people willingly tended towards using a controller in online competitive scenarios when RDO was more popular.

Also just gives you a much finer degree of control when horse-riding etc. But if you have a controller already, you may as well try both and decide for yourself. Do be sure, however, to look at things in third person when you reach chapter 2 and start to experience the open landscapes of the Heartlands.

A very early-game example.

(I believe FOV weirdness in first person takes away from this.)

I'm sure Ladonna already long decided what to do, but re: the OP, I truly can't imagine someone being into narrative-heavy games and not finding RDR2 an absolute treasure. The majority of its naysayers come across as the the kind of gamers to mash through dialogue in other games. And it's fine to be that sort of person, but RDR2 was clearly never meant to have the sort of arcade-y sandbox side to it that GTA does.

For me Arthur is easily the best protagonist in video games, and not just because he's the anti-hero done right. They did a lot to make his anger, compassion, and sorrows all resonant on a level beyond superficial, drab cowboy stories. Certainly night-and-day compared to the original game in that regard.

It's also just an absolute treat for anyone interested in period of American history, the place and symbolism of firearms in that narrative landscape, and the encroachment of 'civilisation' on the Old West. You're as much a witness to a changing world as the changes in Arthur himself.

 

[JDR13]

Which control scheme is less shitty? Are most people using a gamepad for this?

It was designed for controllers, and I'd recommend that tbh. First person was an afterthought, and its control were built around the slight auto-aim it has with a gamepad. So active was this preference, that people willingly tended towards using a controller in online competitive scenarios when RDO was more popular.

Also just gives you a much finer degree of control when horse-riding etc. But if you have a controller already, you may as well try both and decide for yourself. Do be sure, however, to look at things in third person when you reach chapter 2 and start to experience the open landscapes of the Heartlands.

I didn't realize first-person was even an option. I wouldn't play it that way anyways.

 

[unseeingeye]

I didn't realize first-person was even an option. I wouldn't play it that way anyways.

Yea, it is and I rarely ever use it other than for the novelty of trying different things from that perspective.
While I agree that it is as mentioned most likely an after-thought, given the cinematic presentation of the game and the immense amount of work that went into presenting Arthur in motion capture, the fact that it is an option is pretty awesome and I was surprised at just how much detail that decided to include in that mode.

For instance, loading, firing and reloading the guns in first-person mode is an entirely different affair; you can see the intricacies of how those sorts of single and double action firearms functioned and there are comparison videos available online where they analyze how accurate the animations are. Obviously some of them such as the simultaneous cocking and breech loading on the rolling block rifle, or the rapidity of reloading lever-action rifles that aren't tube magazine fed being portrayed at exaggerated speed for gameplay reasons, but it is remarkable to see just how much they articulated in first-person mode that is not visible or only partially so in third-person view. You can even do things like only half-press the firing and reloading buttons (on a controller anyway, not sure about keyboard) so that Arthur will half-cock his revolver and you can see the hammer notch where it rests in position, or you can control things like holding the bolt handle up and back on a bolt action rifle and keeping it there after the spent cartridge is ejected for as long as you like because the reloading mechanisms are manual. There are also tons of different malfunction animations that you will only see in first-person, with the degradation mechanic regulated by use of applying gun oil.

 

[Theodora]

That is probably the best reason to check out first person mode, yeah ^^; though another way to see those lovely little details is to enter photo mode mid-fight.

I think I actually first found that series with Jonathan Ferguson precisely because so much love was put into the guns in RDR2. Almost singlehandedly gave me an interest in firearms between the sense of personality they're given and the importance they have in amplifying agency (to great and terrible consequences) throughout the story.

 

[unseeingeye]

You can see the reloading animations done in this video very quickling going through all of them, which is neat. Obviously they are sped up for gameplay reasons, but some of them are very well detailed and involved and are very enjoyable to watch in first-person mode. The raising of the hammers being done automatically when dual wielding the sawn-off double barrel shotguns, as mentioned in the above video, is actually animated to be performed correctly when using both hands, you can clearly see a brief moment where Arthur raises them before firing. Another cool feature is that the dirtier and more wet your weapons get, the actual sounds of the report and of reloading them changes, besides the diminished reliability and performance.