Red Dead Redemption 2: Good or shit?

[typical user]

Good shit.

Western GTA, with better polish and more railroaded scripting but hey - for your first playthorugh it will easily take away 100 hours, and the story excluding some nonsense's is pretty gut.

I do come back to play this from time to time in Online to shoot some dudes. Tis' good my man.

 

[BruceVC]

Good shit.

Western GTA, with better polish and more railroaded scripting but hey - for your first playthorugh it will easily take away 100 hours, and the story excluding some nonsense's is pretty gut.

I do come back to play this from time to time in Online to shoot some dudes. Tis' good my man.

I agree, I do think the GTA games have more activities but thats because they take part in modern cities and that means they are more busy by design. I use to love driving my bike or car into pedestrians and then letting the police chase me

But for me part of enjoyment of RDR2 is the vast openness of the game world, if you think of the cold mountains around Colter I enjoy the loneliness and then you come across animals or the occasional rider or you can get lucky and find some unique item like those alien rock carvings

 

[unseeingeye]

The characters don't behave or think like human beings and to do what Arthur does would require a level of delusion and disassociation nearly schizophrenic.

Probably about the same level of delusion it takes to write massive pretentious walls of text about how this popamole garbage is da greatest vidya gaem ever and also 2 deep 4 u. This guy seems to be seriously touched in the head.

Since when does an opinion on the merits of an art correlate to delusion? But by all means, continue to adopt an affected writing style on a forum populated primarily by people who lament the decline of civilization yet obsessively click on emojis like a tween to modulate their brain chemistry and vent their impotence while feeling validated by other likeminded overweight virgins exhibiting grotesque vacancies of hair due to male pattern baldness.

 

[unseeingeye]

I could buy Arthur being in denial about Dutch and the rest of the gang if there was the slightest attempt to make Dutch seem positive or good towards Arthur, but there's not. He's a totally narcissistic retard from the start and the fact Arthur has to doubt whether Micah, one of the most blatantly evil characters I've ever seen in a video game, is trustworthy makes Arthur look like a huge retard too. The characters don't behave or think like human beings and to do what Arthur does would require a level of delusion and disassociation nearly schizophrenic.

There are numerous instances of Dutch being portrayed as positive towards Arthur, but they come later in the story; at the outset we are introduced to the characters directly after having botched a major robbery, had two members die and two others missing, and having fled for 3 days without rest into the mountains with women and children during a major blizzard. Obviously nobody is going to be in high spirits in those circumstances and Dutch is in his "leader" mode mentality. The most notable instance of showing the relationship Arthur and Dutch once had more regularly under less life-threatening conditions is the scene when you can opt to go fishing with him and Hosea, during which the camaraderie between the two is highlighted. There are many conversations during which Arthur explains to others how Dutch taught him how to read, amongst other skills. If you make it a point to frequent the camp regularly you can see a ton of dialogue between the two of them, some of it peculiar and concerning, but some of it encouraging and warm hearted. At any rate this game is not about the gang in its prime, it is about the disintegration of it as alluded to in the previous game. Similarly to the decline of the open and untamed West in the face of civilization encroaching ever further towards the opposite shore, Ducth's gang is shown to us from the moment we are introduced to them trying to build backup after having lost everything, only to succumb to the inevitable fate that becomes clear to everybody except perhaps Dutch, Bill and Javier.

As for characters not acting like human beings, this is both true and false because there are many examples of both. The characters in the greatest works of film and literature don't uniformly act or think like human beings, whatever that is even really supposed to mean, considering that there are billions of us and each one of us is unique. Arthur also never "doubts" Micah is trustworthy, he is certain of this from the outset and clearly only suppresses his true opinion on the man because of Dutch. Something which seem to go over most peoples heads as well is that the reason Dutch has a fondness for Micah, beyond his increasingly sycophantic pandering and undeniable ability to get money however necessary, is that prior to the games events we can learn that Micah saved his life after a deal Dutch was involved in went south and guns were drawn. Micah is endeared to him because of how recently his life was saved by him, and Miach's personality only emboldens the sociopathic and narcissistic side of his personality. But no, Arthur is far from "retarded", he along with Hosea and Lenny are the only ones who truly see what is going on but due to being bound to Dutch, through guilt by association and in Arthur's case an instilled sense of loyalty and concern for the relatively less violently criminal, feel they have no choice but to stay.

 

[unseeingeye]

I like open world games. I like westerns. I like third person shooters. I like most older Rockstar games, flawed as they may be. I am a male with power fantasies. Most of all,
I love video games. I should firmly be the target demographic, except I am not a retard, and this game was unfortunately made for retards.

The inability so many people seem afflicted with to comprehend that their dislike of a work of art doesn't mean that it is for lesser people is seriously sad. First of all, if you are a male with power fantasies, that is a psychological complex you might want to seek treatment for, or at least resolution through contemplative mediation or prayer. Acknowledging a mental aberration is a healthy first step however, which is a good sign.

But beyond that I'd suggest that considering what you consume in terms of target demographics and whether or not you fit such criterion is a pernicious perspective to hold that will only hold yourself back. Open world games, westerns and third person shooters are gameplay styles I also enjoy, but determining whether or not a game may interest me has nothing to do with labels and adherence to psychosocial norms established by a profoundly sick culture.

Something I find curious is that the vitriolic animosity spewed in this thread (myself included, though only in reflection, for in actuality I find it mildly amusing at most) hinges on an opinion about a video game which draws such divisive reactions, yet if we were to compare our top 10 favorite games we'd probably be for the most part in general agreement. It is ok to not like something, but for something to elicit such extreme reactions belies an insecurity, especially so for those uncontrolled outbursts that are edited immediately afterwards. I was called pretentious just as I'd anticipated a few posts back, it is the inevitable rejoinder resorted to in disgrace. I like video games and I like reading; when a video game is made with attention to detail in the portrayal of a historical period, and is actually enjoyable, liking turns to love, as has only happened with this game, the previous game and Kingdom Come Deliverance. Obviously the historicity involved with the latter is far more accurate and fundamental to the experience, but there are very many historical details realized in the Red Dead games that suffice in providing a virtual simulacrum of the states depicted during that time. When a game is for me a masterpiece, I am wont to expound on it at length. If that makes me pretentious so be it, I'd take that over immature, emotionally stunted and sexually deprived any day.

 

[Multidirectional]

Nobody cares how much butt sex you have, faggot. Stop bringing it up.

Since when does an opinion on the merits of an art correlate to delusion? But by all means, continue to adopt an affected writing style on a forum populated primarily by people who lament the decline of civilization yet obsessively click on emojis like a tween to modulate their brain chemistry and vent their impotence while feeling validated by other likeminded overweight virgins exhibiting grotesque vacancies of hair due to male pattern baldness.

Liking a shit game is nothing special. I've enjoyed multiple games that weren't that good myself. Sperging out with massive walls of text how a said game is some sort of deep spiritual experience, however, does make you look like an insane person to me.

Also, LOL UR MOM LOLOL.

 

[9ted6]

and how its morals are very much Christian.

Christianity is included to be the butt of every "clever" joke and satire in RDR2, just like every other Rockstar game. The Russian wife in GTA 4's the only time it ever got treated sort of positively.

Where is that? Cite examples.

The monk and the nun(most overtly Christian characters I can remember) are probably the two most decent people you meet in the entire game.

The Monk may or may not be Christian, but he doesn't seem like it. He also doesn't interact with you. The Nun straightup tells you she doesn't believe in God. The theme in Rockstar games and most modern games in general is the only religious characters who are good or just neutral are non-Christians or are people who go to church but don't believe any of it theologically. There are plenty of evil obviously-not-Christian characters too, but every Christian character who believes in the religion is shown as bad, except the Russian wife in GTA 4.

 

[unseeingeye]

The Monk may or may not be Christian, but he doesn't seem like it. He also doesn't interact with you. The nun straightup tells you she doesn't believe in God. The theme in Rockstar games and most modern games in general is the only religious characters who are good or just neutral are non-Christians or are people who go to church but don't believe anything they say. There are plenty of evil obviously-not-Christian characters too, but every Christian character who believes in the religion is shown as bad, except the Russian wife in GTA 4.

The nun does not straight up tell you that she doesn't believe in God, she says in response to Arthur who tells her something like "But I don't believe in anything", "Sometimes, neither do I". That is an acknowledgement and admission of doubt, something that absolutely every religious person with even half a brain struggles with at times, dating back to such important Church Fathers as Augustine. That is hardly the way you are making it out to be.

As for religious people and Christians in particular being depicted in Rockstar and most modern games in non-ideal manner, Rockstar games first of all are primarily satire and the other games don't factor into this discussion given that Red Dead 2 is not satire and does not depict Christianity in an overly negative light.

 

[9ted6]

The Monk may or may not be Christian, but he doesn't seem like it. He also doesn't interact with you. The nun straightup tells you she doesn't believe in God. The theme in Rockstar games and most modern games in general is the only religious characters who are good or just neutral are non-Christians or are people who go to church but don't believe anything they say. There are plenty of evil obviously-not-Christian characters too, but every Christian character who believes in the religion is shown as bad, except the Russian wife in GTA 4.

The nun does not straight up tell you that she doesn't believe in God, she says in response to Arthur who tells her something like "But I don't believe in anything", "Sometimes, neither do I". That is an acknowledgement and admission of doubt, something that absolutely every religious person with even half a brain struggles with at times, dating back to such important Church Fathers as Augustine. That is hardly the way you are making it out to be.

Except her reasonable doubt ends in "I think God is actually just people", as in she doesn't believe in God, she instead thinks people are what God supposedly is, which is definitely not a Christian concept.

From the game directly,

"Religion is just a word. Hearts are rarely pure, but equally are they rarely impure either. [...] To me, God is people, and people are God, so we must all do what we can."

The theme in Rockstar games and most modern games in general is the only religious characters who are good or just neutral are non-Christians or are people who go to church but don't believe anything they say. There are plenty of evil obviously-not-Christian characters too, but every Christian character who believes in the religion is shown as bad, except the Russian wife in GTA 4.

As for religious people and Christians in particular being depicted in Rockstar and most modern games in non-ideal manner, Rockstar games first of all are primarily satire and the other games don't factor into this discussion given that Red Dead 2 is not satire and does not depict Christianity in an overly negative light.

Sure, I'm saying that the dude saying it has positive Christian themes is wrong when the game features same-old same-old attacks on Christianity by non-Christian writers who think saying "Christians are stupid" is satire.

 

[unseeingeye]

Nobody cares how much butt sex you have, faggot. Stop bringing it up.

I'm not the one bringing that up, and once again your insecurities and unconscious sexual desires are left exposed through your fixations.

And I hope I look like an insane person to you, if you're the measure of sound mental health then thank God I'm not subjected to such ignorance and your blatant inferiority complex.

 

[unseeingeye]

Except her reasonable doubt ends in "I think God is actually just people", as in she doesn't believe in God, she instead thinks people are what God supposedly is, which is definitely not a Christian concept.

From the game directly,

"Religion is just a word. Hearts are rarely pure, but equally are they rarely impure either. [...] To me, God is people, and people are God, so we must all do what we can."

Clearly the implication is that she struggles with her faith and so choses to seek God in other people through acts of compassionate kindness. My take from that scene is that by "God is people, and people are God" she is sharing with a non-religious person her interpretation of being made in Gods image. If you are a Christian, than surely you know better than most how widely the faith is practiced and interpreted; she may not be your kind of Christian, but that in no way is a denial of faith. It is an attempt at reaching somebody who will only reject proselytization or authoritative claims contrary to his worldview.

 

[Justicar]

Except her reasonable doubt ends in "I think God is actually just people", as in she doesn't believe in God, she instead thinks people are what God supposedly is, which is definitely not a Christian concept.

From the game directly,

She believes in the new age crap that is pushed in all the new goyslop media no suprise there.

 

[unseeingeye]

She believes in the new age crap that is pushed in all the new goyslop media no suprise there.

That scene, while important for Arthur, was in my opinion diminished by her response. It is a disappointing handling of a religious character, I fully agree with that sentiment. That it was an acknowledgement of atheism I take issue with; that it was terrible writing and an injection of contemporary sensibilities influenced by New Age syncretistic cherry-picking there is no doubt.

 

[9ted6]

She believes in the new age crap that is pushed in all the new goyslop media no suprise there.

That scene, while important for Arthur, was in my opinion diminished by her response. It is a disappointing handling of a religious character, I fully agree with that sentiment. That it was an acknowledgement of atheism I take issue with; that it was terrible writing and an injection of contemporary sensibilities influenced by New Age syncretistic cherry-picking there is no doubt.

We can agree there.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

"good" or "shit" are not definite qualities belonging to virtual objects

There's objective standards of quality for objects of any kind
So yes, "good" or "shit" are definite qualities

My manner of writing is ordinarily dismissed as pretentious but I at least try to maintain an awareness that my opining on any game is highly subjective and inevitably bound to change. I get that not everybody approaches online conversations with a deference to civility but the tendency to assume authority strikes me as peculiar.

This is the internet - particularly an internet forum with few speech regulations
It's not a public assembly of your peers, this is the Wild West
People adopt a more vulgar and edgy persona because it's the most entertaining, efficient and safe way to communicate in these environments

As for your posts being ignored as pretentious, I would say the primary reason for that is not your writting style (although it certaintly doesn't help) but your opinions themselves
Not only you parrot some banal clichés, you also contradict your own logic

you have to expect that the open world and the story missions are two partially distinct things as is the case for every narrative-driven open-world game

False
And R* didn't even try...

 

[unseeingeye]

There's objective standards of quality for objects of any kind etc etc

Within certain contexts, not universally and with art this becomes ambiguous to a point of almost absurdity.

I contend that people conform to immature and vulgar personas for the same reason people conform in absolutely any other situation that isn't presently life threatening, and safety is about bottom of that list, unless you're conflating emotional harm with the kind of harm that has meaningful consequences to you and the people or things you cherish. The internet hasn't been a Wild West since the mid nineties, lol this forum doesn't even remotely compare to the type of vulgarity that was omnipresent when this stuff was new and unregulated.

My posts are clearly not being ignored, I think that much at least ought to be self-evident? I meant by being dismissed as pretentious my opinion on a particular subject, not my actual posts.

Is that last part false? I certainly haven't played every narrative driven open world game ever made but I've played a fair amount of them and in my experience, the stronger the narrative and more defined the protagonist, the more noticeable the distinction between it unfolding and the ability to properly improvise within 'missions' or quests becomes, while the impact of what you do while in the open-world hardly even registers compared to what you do in the missions. I'm not certain to which banal cliches you are referring, but if you feel up to enlightening me, I'm all eyes?

 

[DJOGamer PT]

"Art is subjective" is a common mark of pretentiousness
One specially egregious as it allows to deflect any justified critcism

This forums does possess some that "Old Net" spirit, which is an important aspect of it's appeal
It's the same reason people like 4chan for

Pathologic is a narrative-driven open world game and doesn't present any of the failures RDR2 does (chiefly the rejection of it's medium's qualities) or other such ''games''

As for clichés, off the top of my head
Besides some very cookie-cutter opinions on games that almost seemed like a parody of a Codex user, which is funny considering your derogatory remarks about Reddit hivemind
I chuckled with your "I don't like movies, except for those made by *google: best directors of all time*"

But really, the most important take away here is this: you think RDR2 is a masterpiece, because you liked it
And that's fine
Just don't go around writting essays that it possess an excepcional quality that can't be found in other games, because that isn't true...

 

[Insect Hordes]

controls suck, inventory sucks, law enforcement sucks, economy sucks. hey, this does sound realistic.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

PorkyThePaladin you musnt get confused with this design and games likes GTA or Witcher, which I also love, and expect to find dragons or strip clubs. Sorry my friend but this is a Western theme game....no monsters here ( saying that there is a Vampire quest Easter Egg you can find in St Denis )

Total strawman. KCD is one of my favorite all time games, and is a purely historical game, no monsters or dragons or strip clubs. The difference between KCD and RDR2 is that the former is fun and while somewhat linear in its main narrative, gives you a lot of freedom during missions, and also has a much more interesting and sympathetic story. RDR2 is completely linear, not fun at all, and completely boring story-wise.

 

[9ted6]

PorkyThePaladin you musnt get confused with this design and games likes GTA or Witcher, which I also love, and expect to find dragons or strip clubs. Sorry my friend but this is a Western theme game....no monsters here ( saying that there is a Vampire quest Easter Egg you can find in St Denis )

Total strawman. KCD is one of my favorite all time games, and is a purely historical game, no monsters or dragons or strip clubs. The difference between KCD and RDR2 is that the former is fun and while somewhat linear in its main narrative, gives you a lot of freedom during missions, and also has a much more interesting and sympathetic story. RDR2 is completely linear, not fun at all, and completely boring story-wise.

KCD also carries a sense of knowledge of its time period and a genuine effort to emulate it, while RDR is based on a surface level understanding of the Western genre and only tries to deconstruct, satirize, and parody it.

I don't mean that in a pretentious sense, that it can't be good if it's not faithful, but RDR just so happens to be shit while KCD happens to be good.

 

[BruceVC]

PorkyThePaladin you musnt get confused with this design and games likes GTA or Witcher, which I also love, and expect to find dragons or strip clubs. Sorry my friend but this is a Western theme game....no monsters here ( saying that there is a Vampire quest Easter Egg you can find in St Denis )

Total strawman. KCD is one of my favorite all time games, and is a purely historical game, no monsters or dragons or strip clubs. The difference between KCD and RDR2 is that the former is fun and while somewhat linear in its main narrative, gives you a lot of freedom during missions, and also has a much more interesting and sympathetic story. RDR2 is completely linear, not fun at all, and completely boring story-wise.

Okay good to know, I thought you were expecting dragons in RDR2 but I see you do understand its not a fantasy game

But on a serious note, the view of the narrative in RDR2 is going be subjective. Most reviews are extremely positive. I found the narrative to be engaging, interesting, realistic and tragic. In other words it was excellent for me

But we all have our own opinions and we can agree to disagree

 

[Falksi]

BruceVC, what did you think of the gameplay and pace of the game?

I honestly couldn't stand either, everything just felt SO sluggish and slow, so I'm wondering if you disagree with that and found it fun, or just put up with it for the rest of the stuff you enjoyed?

 

[BruceVC]

PorkyThePaladin you musnt get confused with this design and games likes GTA or Witcher, which I also love, and expect to find dragons or strip clubs. Sorry my friend but this is a Western theme game....no monsters here ( saying that there is a Vampire quest Easter Egg you can find in St Denis )

Total strawman. KCD is one of my favorite all time games, and is a purely historical game, no monsters or dragons or strip clubs. The difference between KCD and RDR2 is that the former is fun and while somewhat linear in its main narrative, gives you a lot of freedom during missions, and also has a much more interesting and sympathetic story. RDR2 is completely linear, not fun at all, and completely boring story-wise.

KCD also carries a sense of knowledge of its time period and a genuine effort to emulate it, while RDR is based on a surface level understanding of the Western genre and only tries to deconstruct, satirize, and parody it.

I don't mean that in a pretentious sense, that it can't be good if it's not faithful, but RDR just so happens to be shit while KCD happens to be good.

I just finished KC:D and it is an excellent game and it was very historically realistic and not just the narrative but the overall mechanics. But we have also agreed on this in the official KC:D thread

But the design objective of games like GTA and RDR2 are not the same as KC:D and they not supposed to be. RDR2 is a story set in a Western theme game but KC:D is story set in a realistic Medieval time period

Both are stories, meaning the protagonist is not real, but the game worlds are different around realism

 

[BruceVC]

BruceVC, what did you think of the gameplay and pace of the game?

I honestly couldn't stand either, everything just felt SO sluggish and slow, so I'm wondering if you disagree with that and found it fun, or just put up with it for the rest of the stuff you enjoyed?

Its a valid criticism but I enjoy that slow pace of this type of game and how quests are staggered. What I use to do is it not initiate quests and just randomly explore and do other other activities. So it worked for me but I can understand its not appealing for everyone

Do you enjoy GTA games?

 

[Falksi]

BruceVC, what did you think of the gameplay and pace of the game?

I honestly couldn't stand either, everything just felt SO sluggish and slow, so I'm wondering if you disagree with that and found it fun, or just put up with it for the rest of the stuff you enjoyed?

Its a valid criticism but I enjoy that slow pace of this type of game and how quests are staggered. What I use to do is it not initiate quests and just randomly explore and do other other activities. So it worked for me but I can understand its not appealing for everyone

Do you enjoy GTA games?

Not since GTA Vice City. Vice City gave me what I want from such a game - 80's high-T action meshed with an amazing soundtrack and some great nods to some timeless movies. Everything after that tried to be too much of a life-sim, and Saints-Row became my go-to for such thrills.