KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[rusty_shackleford]

don't think it matters how hard it "flopped", iirc from the epic lawsuit leaks they got a ton of money from uncle timmy

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

don't think it matters how hard it "flopped", iirc from the epic lawsuit leaks they got a ton of money from uncle timmy

You're very right. When I finally got round to playing the free copy I was given despite abandoning the crowdfunding, I could tell there were so many parts of the game where the devs just shrugged their shoulders and put in the minimum amount of effort. Because they already made their money. What's the point in putting effort in now? The quality of the end product didn't matter. As long as it ticked a box saying "released" to make good on a deal. There didn't ever need to be a single sale, a single person who actually enjoyed the game. The money was made. Potentially more money than they would've made by selling a complete game made with love that respected it's roots and respected the people looking forward to it. They made their money well done. Mission success. Maybe it'll happen again. A game is announced, bought and paid for to hold a place on malware disguised as a badly designed storefront and doesn't need a single eye on it. It's just a product on a shelf somewhere. You are not the customer. The storefront is. And as long as they are subsidised by 1 game and a government of bugs masquerading badly as humans they can just keep paying companies to make nothing. I know a lot of devs who'd love that deal. That they don't even have to pretend to acknowledge the existence of customers. Mean old customers who just don't appreciate the tireless work it takes for a dev to walk from their desk to the snack bar in their 9-5 flexible hours work from home schedule. They can make their games in a vacuum. Put minimum effort in and then just throw it in a hole somewhere. It's not art. It's not a game. It's not a thing. It's a factory process that leads off a cliff.

Y'know, a front for money laundering.

 

[Latelistener]

Actually they got very little. $2 millions is what they took from Timmy and they earned that sum on Steam in a very short time. It's hardly enough to even finance another game. If they had released it on Steam first when the hype was still there they would've made a lot more.

The problem is, their management is greedy and on top of that is also retarded. They see money — they take it. No thinking or strategy involved. That sum just isn't worth an exclusivity backlash and a year of prison.

 

[geno]

Gollop is saying things again at PCGamer
https://www.pcgamer.com/the-x-com-itch-never-goes-away-says-x-com-creator-julian-gollop/

Spoiler

X-COM: UFO Defense, known as UFO: Enemy Unknown here in the UK, is an integral part of PC gaming history. It was part of the MicroProse glory days of the mid-'90s, when ground-breaking strategy games were being spat out at an unbelievable rate. It spawned sequels, questionable spin-offs, and multiple successors, spiritual and otherwise. It's an impressive legacy, and for creator Julian Gollop, the X-COM itch "never goes away".

While the X-COM/XCOM series is now 10 games deep, Gollop was only responsible for the original and Apocalypse, the third game. Of course, none of them would have existed without him, his brother Nick, and the tiny team of artists that built the game that started it all. And now you can't fire up a store like Steam or Epic without seeing countless turn-based strategy and tactics romps, many of them capitalising on the success of Firaxis's XCOM.

"XCOM was basically a triple-A turn-based tactics game that was immensely popular, and I think that's kind of broken the perception of turn-based games as being something old-fashioned and unappealing," says Gollop. "So I have a lot to thank Firaxis for that one."

Gollop also notes all the interesting turn-based tactical RPGs that continue to appear, especially the ones that draw from tabletop games, like Wildermyth and Gloomhaven. With this greater overlap between tabletop and digital, and so many more people getting into board games, there's an incredible amount of diversity, both in terms of the audience and the games themselves.

A quarter of a century after X-COM, Gollop and Snapshot Games released a spiritual successor: Phoenix Point. Like UFO Defense, the fight between humans and aliens could be a gruelling conflict, but one with a story, factions and a broader strategic conflict influenced by Gollop's love of tabletop gaming. And now Snapshot is calling it complete, with the Phoenix Point: Complete Edition available now, accompanied by DLC and Steam Workshop support. But does this final version match his vision for an X-COM follow-up?

"Yes, it does," says Gollop. "But it kind of expanded a bit beyond it, because we explored some interesting options with the DLCs. It is the most in-depth and detailed tactical squad based game in existence. And it may remain that way for a long time. So obviously the whole team is immensely proud of what we achieved with it. And it was incredibly ambitious. I mean, the original vision was to not just recreate an X-COM-style game, but to bring something a little bit new to the table in the sense of how the world is represented, the faction interactions the story elements and so on."

Some of that ambitious vision caused issues initially, however, like the evolving alien threat that responded to player actions. "It did work kind of according to plan," says Gollop, "but the players didn't really see it very clearly, or it felt a little bit too random. One of our early complaints was difficulty spikes, because the aliens had developed some appendage, which was quite dangerous to the player, and they started using it because it was effective. So, in a way, I guess you could say it was a bit too good. So we had to try and tone it down so that the alien progression is a bit more gradual."


There were also groups of players with very different expectations. A lot of the presentation and systems evoked Firaxis's XCOM, which is by no means a walk in the park, but it's considerably more accessible and less brutal than its predecessor. Players coming from that game, then, were not prepared for the ass-kicking they were about to receive.

"It is very difficult to get it right first time," says Gollop. And I must confess, we probably didn't in this respect, in terms of the difficulty progression of the game. Because Phoenix Point is less structured in the progression than, say, modern XCOM, it makes it even more difficult. On the one hand, we want to get the player to explore and experiment with stuff, and for different things to happen if they do different things. But on the other hand, we don't want to overwhelm the player and make them feel like they've been cheated. The game has got unfair advantages, it just doesn't feel fair. So yeah, it is a difficult balancing act. And we made so many changes along the way to try and address that. And I think the game is in a much better place."

One thing that became clear from the feedback is that, as well as the hardcore players who are hungry for a challenge, "there's probably a bigger group of players who are looking more for an experience, looking to experience the story or looking to experience character development". RPGs and strategy games have long had a close relationship, but it's even more evident now, and there's increasingly an expectation that certain RPG mainstays will also show up in squad-based tactics games.

With the future of Phoenix Point now up to the modders, Snapshot Games is moving on, but to what Gollop isn't saying. While the X-COM itch never goes away, that's not a guarantee that we'll be seeing another bit of alien-hunting squad-based tactics again. "We will be doing some different things," he says.

One thing that's clear is that he's still excited by tabletop games, and the digital ones they inspire. He's written about deckbuilders before, for PC Gamer, in fact(opens in new tab), and continues to be a fan. "It is quite fashionable now," he says. "And I think that's great, because I really love Slay the Spire and love Dominion—I love that style of game. I also think it's really interesting that mechanics developed in board games are crossing over into videogames and becoming popular again. Because still, the board games space is definitely the most innovative space in terms of actual pure game design. And the fact that now, to some extent, there's a lot of videogames games now following the innovations from the board games space is quite cool."

While he's hesitant to act like an oracle and make big predictions about videogame trends, he expects deckbuilders to be around for a long time. "They will be a permanent part of the gamescape." And while this doesn't mean we should expect Snapshot to develop a deckbuilder, the symmetry of both Firaxis—with Midnight Suns(opens in new tab)—and Gollop working on deckbuilders is very appealing.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

But does this final version match his vision for an X-COM follow-up?

"Yes, it does," says Gollop.

it looks like a completely different game from what was pitched
like they decided to make a PG-13 cartoon spinoff version

if you think that sounds too harsh, just go check the fig page
https://www.fig.co/campaigns/phoenix-point

much closer to the concept art which you can see in the artbook

 

[ArchAngel]

But does this final version match his vision for an X-COM follow-up?

"Yes, it does," says Gollop.

it looks like a completely different game from what was pitched
like they decided to make a PG-13 cartoon spinoff version

if you think that sounds too harsh, just go check the fig page
https://www.fig.co/campaigns/phoenix-point

much closer to the concept art which you can see in the artbook

Are you still butthurt 5 years later?

At this point nobody is making new Xcom games, PP truly is the biggest one out there even if it is different than what they originally presented.
Well there is Xenonauts 2 but it seems to be in some kind of development hell. Everyone else is making different kind of turn based games or switching to cards.

 

[Bigg Boss]

What is up with that card shit anyway? What game started that fad in tacticool games I wanna go gripe about it?

 

[luj1]

What I'll remember this project for are the epic mid-development core changes which destroyed the original vision of the game

Im glad it flopped

 

[ArchAngel]

What I'll remember this project for are the epic mid-development core changes which destroyed the original vision of the game

Im glad it flopped

It didn't flop lol, they bragged with their announcement for Complete Edition that they had 1 mil players playing it.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Wasn't it 5 million?

 

[Comte_II]

Wasn't it 5 million?

I think it was over 6 million

 

[Latelistener]

Are you still butthurt 5 years later?

Yes.

 

[Jaedar]

I am a bit upset we didn't get a better game. But I'm still going to replay it at some point (I was going to do it in july, but now I'm waiting for the campaign rebalance mod).

 

[Shog-goth]

Each word by Gollop is spoken with forked tongue. He has earned his retirement money through deception and betrayal of loyal fans, now he can rot in hell and disappear from circulation. Listen to his lies makes me want to throw up.

Fortunately, anyway, I'm no more butthurt...

 

[Comte_II]

Each word by Gollop is spoken with forked tongue. He has earned his retirement money through deception and betrayal of loyal fans, now he can rot in hell and disappear from circulation. Listen to his lies makes me want to throw up.

Fortunately, anyway, I'm no more butthurt...

Just another has been game developer. Though Phoenix point is ok if you want a modern fircom clone.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

It's not really a clone though. There's enough mechanical changes to make it distinct.
It's more of a bastard hybrid between UFO: Aftermath and Firaxcom.
Funnily enough, UFO was derived from one of Gollop's abandoned projects, The Dreamland Chronicles, which had mechanics that found it's way in PP, such as the targeting mechanic.

 

[Shog-goth]

Though Phoenix point is ok if you want a modern fircom clone.

It's not a clone and it's certainly not what I wanted anyway. What I wanted was the game promised and anticipated during crowdfunding, not this turd. It is not difficult to understand.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, the game doesn't look like what was presented. I remember it looking a darker and grittier looking, the released version looks kind of washed out and cartoony.
They changed the Scylla design too; she used to look a lot more human.
Maybe mods will change that.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

combat is better but pretty much everything else(especially factions) are way worse than nuxcom
I've never been able to drag myself to the finish line in phoenix point, I always get bored first. Beat both nuxcoms.

 

[gurugeorge]

combat is better but pretty much everything else(especially factions) are way worse than nuxcom
I've never been able to drag myself to the finish line in phoenix point, I always get bored first. Beat both nuxcoms.

One runs out of steam because the development ran out of steam. The game starts off quite well, and till about halfway through, with good combat and a good strategic layer, but it doesn't really develop from there, it peters out or stagnates somehow, gets samey.

 

[ArchAngel]

combat is better but pretty much everything else(especially factions) are way worse than nuxcom
I've never been able to drag myself to the finish line in phoenix point, I always get bored first. Beat both nuxcoms.

Nuxcom does not even have factions. Ok they added those human alien lovers in xcom1 exp but they never act vs aliens, they feel just like another "alien" enemy. All you can do with them is kill them.

 

[Galdred]

And how do factions compare to X-COM: Apocalypse?
They were quite half baked there, and it was a pain to avoid collateral damage on UFO interceptions, but I still liked the game a lot.

 

[Jaedar]

And how do factions compare to X-COM: Apocalypse?
They were quite half baked there, and it was a pain to avoid collateral damage on UFO interceptions, but I still liked the game a lot.

They are arguably more detailed, but there's less of them.
In apoc, most of the factions don't do anything if they have positive or negative rep, iirc, with a few exceptions (like needing to constantly bribe the air delivery company or you can't buy stuff from the market any more).

In PP, there's 3 factions, and they're "the same". They all have bases spread out on the map, they all do their own research (they have their own tech trees of weapons, classes, vehicles) and they can all get attacked by aliens. When your rep gets high enough, you gain all their researched tech, and even higher you can colloborate on new tech. You can also trade resources and buy soldiers from them.

Or raid their facilities to steal tech/vehicles/resources. I think they will send attacks against you if you get significant negative rep.

But the collateral damage and buildings in the city scape felt well integrated: the factions were part of the apoc world, they sent ships, vehicles and such, did stuff. The ones in PP feel a bit more tacked on.

combat is better but pretty much everything else(especially factions) are way worse than nuxcom
I've never been able to drag myself to the finish line in phoenix point, I always get bored first. Beat both nuxcoms.

One runs out of steam because the development ran out of steam. The game starts off quite well, and till about halfway through, with good combat and a good strategic layer, but it doesn't really develop from there, it peters out or stagnates somehow, gets samey.

Yeah. There's only so many alien nests one wants to clear out, and the higher tiers are just a chore to go through even once. The lategame also feels like it lacks that massive powerspike of psi/blaster bombs/force fields. There's a bit too many sidegrades in my opinion. The ancients dlc sorta fixes that by adding super strong lategame weapons, but they're a complete pain to get.

Fwiw, I have also beat both nuxcoms, but not PP. But I also want to replay PP at some point, I have no desire to do so with nuxcom.

I think PP is enough of a flawed gem that it's worth playing, even if it might not be worth finishing.

 

[ArchAngel]

And how do factions compare to X-COM: Apocalypse?
They were quite half baked there, and it was a pain to avoid collateral damage on UFO interceptions, but I still liked the game a lot.

They are arguably more detailed, but there's less of them.
In apoc, most of the factions don't do anything if they have positive or negative rep, iirc, with a few exceptions (like needing to constantly bribe the air delivery company or you can't buy stuff from the market any more).

In PP, there's 3 factions, and they're "the same". They all have bases spread out on the map, they all do their own research (they have their own tech trees of weapons, classes, vehicles) and they can all get attacked by aliens. When your rep gets high enough, you gain all their researched tech, and even higher you can colloborate on new tech. You can also trade resources and buy soldiers from them.

Or raid their facilities to steal tech/vehicles/resources. I think they will send attacks against you if you get significant negative rep.

But the collateral damage and buildings in the city scape felt well integrated: the factions were part of the apoc world, they sent ships, vehicles and such, did stuff. The ones in PP feel a bit more tacked on.

Well in addition to this each faction has their own ending of the game if you ally with them. Basically game has 4 different endings which is pretty unique in Xcom world of games.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

combat is better but pretty much everything else(especially factions) are way worse than nuxcom
I've never been able to drag myself to the finish line in phoenix point, I always get bored first. Beat both nuxcoms.

Nuxcom does not even have factions. Ok they added those human alien lovers in xcom1 exp but they never act vs aliens, they feel just like another "alien" enemy. All you can do with them is kill them.

XCOM 2 has those 3 rebel factions. Which have like, no politics behind them even though they're supposed to hate each other.