KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[ArchAngel]

combat is better but pretty much everything else(especially factions) are way worse than nuxcom
I've never been able to drag myself to the finish line in phoenix point, I always get bored first. Beat both nuxcoms.

Nuxcom does not even have factions. Ok they added those human alien lovers in xcom1 exp but they never act vs aliens, they feel just like another "alien" enemy. All you can do with them is kill them.

XCOM 2 has those 3 rebel factions. Which have like, no politics behind them even though they're supposed to hate each other.

I don't consider them factions, they are just excuse to get new soldiers. Beyond giving you ability to get bonus soldier class, they don't do anything.

 

[ArchAngel]

Well in addition to this each faction has their own ending of the game if you ally with them. Basically game has 4 different endings which is pretty unique in Xcom world of games.

Afaik it's just the final mission and then end slides though? It's nice enough, but not great. If the game had forced you to ally with one earlier one, which then unlocked their best tech (blaster bomb level op) and made the other two stop sharing any more tech it would have been much more impactful. As it is, there's 0 reason to not ally with all factions.

Penalties in vanilla are not much but upcoming mod is going to fix this.

 

[Parabalus]

combat is better but pretty much everything else(especially factions) are way worse than nuxcom
I've never been able to drag myself to the finish line in phoenix point, I always get bored first. Beat both nuxcoms.

Nuxcom does not even have factions. Ok they added those human alien lovers in xcom1 exp but they never act vs aliens, they feel just like another "alien" enemy. All you can do with them is kill them.

XCOM 2 has those 3 rebel factions. Which have like, no politics behind them even though they're supposed to hate each other.

I don't consider them factions, they are just excuse to get new soldiers. Beyond giving you ability to get bonus soldier class, they don't do anything.

The orders are pretty varied, some are better than the soldiers.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah the Orders are more valuable than the soldiers themselves, imo.
They can actually be pretty game breaking at times. That order that automatically removes Avatar Project progress makes the doom timer irrelevant, you can get orders that adds meat shields volunteers to your squad and there's an order that starts the timer only when you break concealment. Which really should have been the case to begin with.

 

[ArchAngel]

combat is better but pretty much everything else(especially factions) are way worse than nuxcom
I've never been able to drag myself to the finish line in phoenix point, I always get bored first. Beat both nuxcoms.

Nuxcom does not even have factions. Ok they added those human alien lovers in xcom1 exp but they never act vs aliens, they feel just like another "alien" enemy. All you can do with them is kill them.

XCOM 2 has those 3 rebel factions. Which have like, no politics behind them even though they're supposed to hate each other.

I don't consider them factions, they are just excuse to get new soldiers. Beyond giving you ability to get bonus soldier class, they don't do anything.

The orders are pretty varied, some are better than the soldiers.

You don't need factions for those orders. Just like soldiers, you could remove all names of those 3 "factions" and it would be same

 

[Parabalus]

combat is better but pretty much everything else(especially factions) are way worse than nuxcom
I've never been able to drag myself to the finish line in phoenix point, I always get bored first. Beat both nuxcoms.

Nuxcom does not even have factions. Ok they added those human alien lovers in xcom1 exp but they never act vs aliens, they feel just like another "alien" enemy. All you can do with them is kill them.

XCOM 2 has those 3 rebel factions. Which have like, no politics behind them even though they're supposed to hate each other.

I don't consider them factions, they are just excuse to get new soldiers. Beyond giving you ability to get bonus soldier class, they don't do anything.

The orders are pretty varied, some are better than the soldiers.

You don't need factions for those orders. Just like soldiers, you could remove all names of those 3 "factions" and it would be same

Might as well say that about PP's factions.

 

[ArchAngel]

combat is better but pretty much everything else(especially factions) are way worse than nuxcom
I've never been able to drag myself to the finish line in phoenix point, I always get bored first. Beat both nuxcoms.

Nuxcom does not even have factions. Ok they added those human alien lovers in xcom1 exp but they never act vs aliens, they feel just like another "alien" enemy. All you can do with them is kill them.

XCOM 2 has those 3 rebel factions. Which have like, no politics behind them even though they're supposed to hate each other.

I don't consider them factions, they are just excuse to get new soldiers. Beyond giving you ability to get bonus soldier class, they don't do anything.

The orders are pretty varied, some are better than the soldiers.

You don't need factions for those orders. Just like soldiers, you could remove all names of those 3 "factions" and it would be same

Might as well say that about PP's factions.

You could but it would not be true.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

At least in PP you can actually piss the factions off and they hate each other. There is no way to fail with XCOM 2 factions and they are oddly willing to work with each other even though the game says they are at odds.

 

[razvedchiki]

new jericho actually attacks (rarely) pandoran lairs.

 

[Serious_Business]

I quite like lore the lore in this game. Big Lovecraft pastiche ; it works. It has an engaging science fiction turn to it. I don't like the ancestors dlc too much thematically, even if the gameplay addition is good. All the dlcs in this game are pretty funny : instead of giving boons to the players, they just add levels of complications and difficulty, making people complain even harder. That's pretty great. I'd say the game as it is is almost on par with Long war. If someone manages to make a big mod for it, it could be something special.

 

[Zanzoken]

Has it ever been determined why they didn't just clone the original X-Com with updated GFX and UI and release that?

Isn't that all we ever really wanted?

 

[Mary Sue Leigh]

But that wouldn't work well on consoles I guess. Have to consider that all important console market.

 

[Parabalus]

The aiming system in PP is better than anything before it.

 

[Galdred]

But that wouldn't work well on consoles I guess. Have to consider that all important console market.

It might be a small sample size, but I have quite a few friends that only played X-COM on Playstation.
It is not as bad as playing a RTS on console.
But anyway, OG X-COM with better UI and ton of mods is Open-XCOM. I don't think going 3D would improve anything at all.

 

[lightbane]

But that wouldn't work well on consoles I guess. Have to consider that all important console market.

Funny that XCOM 1 and 2 was launched on the PSX just fine, with new additions such as cheesy cutscenes.
I guess even console peasants were smarter back then.

 

[Ibn Sina]

You just build "magical bases" and magical "research centers" and they are staffed by invisible "magical personals". For a game that is claiming to be deep, there is zero sense in any of behind the scenes logistics. Who are occupying those bases you build? Who are the researchers studying the anomalies? Nothing is shown. They really should have shown the non fighting branch of PP/logistic division. Scientists, engineers even specialized workers who work the hydroponics you build in the bases, should have been acquirable personal, specially in this post apocalyptic world where humanity is down to 1% of its total population. But nope, you just build hundreds of bases around the globe, but who is operating or reside in them? You never know. Unfinished garbage.

 

[Trithne]

You just build "magical bases" and magical "research centers" and they are staffed by invisible "magical personals". For a game that is claiming to be deep, there is zero sense in any of behind the scenes logistics. Who are occupying those bases you build? Who are the researchers studying the anomalies? Nothing is shown. They really should have shown the non fighting branch of PP/logistic division. Scientists, engineers even specialized workers who work the hydroponics you build in the bases, should have been acquirable personal, specially in this post apocalyptic world where humanity is down to 1% of its total population. But nope, you just build hundreds of bases around the globe, but who is operating or reside in them? You never know. Unfinished garbage.

The given explanation is that Phoenix Point bases are run entirely on AI. Which is exactly as bullshit as you say.

 

[ArchAngel]

new jericho actually attacks (rarely) pandoran lairs.

It seems rare because they need tech for it, they need Haven with that in range of enemy lair and that Haven needs access to one of their Aircraft.

 

[MuffinBun]

What is up with that card shit anyway? What game started that fad in tacticool games I wanna go gripe about it?

nuCOM. Anything simulationist in this game, like rolls, is purely to the detriment of the player. Ultimately you grind for abilities that make you do something awesome, that is impossible within the simulation focused mechanics. Like the sniper gets the ability to shoot as many times as he wants in a certain cone, the assault outright ignores enemy fire, etc. It already is a card game in everything but name. Abilities are cards, and you want to use them all the time, ignoring base rules that would be the core game in oldcom.

The natural evolution of this is to just ditch that skeleton simulation part, and leave the player with abilities-cards only. You've been playing the card game already, just did not realize it.

 

[MuffinBun]

What I'll remember this project for are the epic mid-development core changes which destroyed the original vision of the game

Im glad it flopped

Are you still butthurt 5 years later?

Yes.

Exactly this. The pitch was full of soul and years ahead of the final product. If they had shown this power rangers style art direction, with tasteless mobile tier UI, no one would have funded it.

 

[luj1]

Exactly this. The pitch was full of soul and years ahead of the final product.

I documented some of the changes here,

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...or-julian-gollop.107625/page-176#post-6165217

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...or-julian-gollop.107625/page-176#post-6163008

This game could have been good. I would have played it, if not for this dramatic change of direction. It had an interesting Hellgate London/XCOM vibe going on.

 

[Jaedar]

Exactly this. The pitch was full of soul and years ahead of the final product.

I documented some of the changes here,

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...or-julian-gollop.107625/page-176#post-6165217

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...or-julian-gollop.107625/page-176#post-6163008

This game could have been good. I would have played it, if not for this dramatic change of direction. It had an interesting Hellgate London/XCOM vibe going on.

To be fair, the actual game looks better than the screenshots you have shown in those posts. But also, the game still looks worse than the pitch mockups so...

 

[MuffinBun]

I documented some of the changes here

Nice, I did not have that one monster art from early concept. Besides that, I'm still as interested in the game they promised as I was back then. Maybe someone will deliver. Art/atmosphere is at least half of the experience for me, and this game as is, it might have nice freelook mechanics, but the art direction isn't even bland, its just aesthetic harassment.

 

[Galdred]

You just build "magical bases" and magical "research centers" and they are staffed by invisible "magical personals". For a game that is claiming to be deep, there is zero sense in any of behind the scenes logistics. Who are occupying those bases you build? Who are the researchers studying the anomalies? Nothing is shown. They really should have shown the non fighting branch of PP/logistic division. Scientists, engineers even specialized workers who work the hydroponics you build in the bases, should have been acquirable personal, specially in this post apocalyptic world where humanity is down to 1% of its total population. But nope, you just build hundreds of bases around the globe, but who is operating or reside in them? You never know. Unfinished garbage.

That was something I liked in UFO: Afterlight. The scientists and engineers were characters with stats, and not just a number.

 

[Ibn Sina]

Exactly this. The pitch was full of soul and years ahead of the final product.

I documented some of the changes here,

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...or-julian-gollop.107625/page-176#post-6165217

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...or-julian-gollop.107625/page-176#post-6163008

This game could have been good. I would have played it, if not for this dramatic change of direction. It had an interesting Hellgate London/XCOM vibe going on.

Holy shit I had no idea it was like that at the beginning, what the hell happened? They even cut what I was complaining about "lack of presence of Engineers and scientists and other logistic support at base".