Personally, I think it's now safe to say Disco Elysium is better than Planescape: Torment.

[rusty_shackleford]

To be fair, the difference here is either not real(as in: you're wrong), or it's lost on me. Harry wakes up in a similar situation: he cannot reject being a detective assigned to this and this case. That's happened. And if he was to reject it in the future, as in: I'm not going to solve the case, I'm leaving - he'd be no different from TNO who chooses not to investigate his past and go do something else.

You're explicitly told how to go about playing the game, Harry is not your character, it is someone else's.

I'm getting the impression that what you're saying boils down to: if I cannot make a build, then it is not roleplaying. So roleplaying is fundamentally about building a character. I disagree. That's what roleplaying games may be about, for some people. But thats not a prerequisite to playing a role in your own way - which is what constitutes roleplaying itself. If I am playing a farm boy[predetermined], who is to fetch a bucket of water, and there are multiple ways of doing that(within physical boundaries of being a boy), and I can express the values, attitudes or mental states of my character in some way, then that's roleplaying regardless of whether I were given an opportunity to create a build. This might be a semantic problem, if you consider "roleplaying" to be an act of playing a roleplaying game(which has to include more than roleplaying itself to be considered one).

This is a forum for RPGs, not improv theater where you take the role of a character in a play.

If a game is nothing but role-playing, then it is not really a RPG, but some form of improvisational theater, for the game form includes far more than acting out assumed roles.

 

[Momock]

If a game is nothing but role-playing, then it is not really a RPG, but some form of improvisational theater, for the game form includes far more than acting out assumed roles.

Well, yeah, it includes gameplay, stats and stuff. That all the game you consider not being RPGs have. So...?

 

[Technomancer]

Titan Outpost was a great example. It has no combat but it is most definitely an RPG. It has plenty of other systems to replace combat with other form of gameplay.

It is irrelevant if you are locked into specific role as long as this role gives you room for variation and change within the confines of any given role (which can be broad or narrow and is defined by the game). RPG is about role-playing first and foremost, which basically means that the game is designed to support different paths and reflects player choices with it's narrative, story and game world. This is core of the genre. If you have that, you have a first RPG claim. No, it's not "just an element" of it like stats, inventory management and levels. But yes, to be considered a full RPG you still need some other classic aspects but not necessarily all of them. Like for example choose your own adventure books like Choice of Robots have role-playing and many choices with consequences, several endings. But they have literally nothing else, so they are just interactive books. Titan Outpost on the other hand has: character creation, stats, trait and perks, leveling system, exploration, inventory with items and story with choice as well as different endings. I think it ticks enough of boxes. One can argue the same about Disco.

 

[MuffinBun]

This might be a semantic problem, if you consider "roleplaying" to be an act of playing a roleplaying game(which has to include more than roleplaying itself to be considered one).

Keep this in mind to see how I'll be vindicated multiple times here.

To be fair, the difference here is either not real(as in: you're wrong), or it's lost on me. Harry wakes up in a similar situation: he cannot reject being a detective assigned to this and this case. That's happened. And if he was to reject it in the future, as in: I'm not going to solve the case, I'm leaving - he'd be no different from TNO who chooses not to investigate his past and go do something else.

You're explicitly told how to go about playing the game, Harry is not your character, it is someone else's.

So roleplaying is about making a build. Apparently.

I'm getting the impression that what you're saying boils down to: if I cannot make a build, then it is not roleplaying. So roleplaying is fundamentally about building a character. I disagree. That's what roleplaying games may be about, for some people. But thats not a prerequisite to playing a role in your own way - which is what constitutes roleplaying itself. If I am playing a farm boy[predetermined], who is to fetch a bucket of water, and there are multiple ways of doing that(within physical boundaries of being a boy), and I can express the values, attitudes or mental states of my character in some way, then that's roleplaying regardless of whether I were given an opportunity to create a build. This might be a semantic problem, if you consider "roleplaying" to be an act of playing a roleplaying game(which has to include more than roleplaying itself to be considered one).

This is a forum for RPGs, not improv theater where you take the role of a character in a play.

This is a discussion about roleplaying, which is different than playing an rpg game.

If a game is nothing but role-playing, then it is not really a RPG, but some form of improvisational theater, for the game form includes far more than acting out assumed roles.

Exactly. Role-playing is different from playing an RPG. And roleplaying is more akin to acting out of assumed roles.

So why on earth would you argue that:
Disco Elysium is not an rpg <--- because it does not contain role-playing <--- btw by role-playing I mean not role-playing, but making builds(even though I precisely know what it means, because it's laid out perfectly in my quote that I bring to support my case)

 

[Rieser]

I was curious about a side note, since no one on the Codex ever seem to address this; is Disco Elysium an RPG or not?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's about being able to play your character how you want to and make decisions for them, simple as.

 

[underground nymph]

Both games lack combat hence they are meh as an rpg

edit: don’t even try to argue PT had a combat. That was pure garbage.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

edit: don’t even try to argue PT had a combat. That was pure garbage.

it was literally just IE combat, there are people on this site that actually found the IWD games to be enjoyable(disgusting, I know)

 

[BruceVC]

Do these troll threads even work anymore?

I just don't get why someone would go through the trouble of registering an alt for it. Just shitpost on your main, for fuck's sake, everyone else does it. Might have better odds, too.

This is my main account. This is genuinely my first time using the site. Someone recommended I bring my ideas here to get your guys opinions.

I hope the mods let me post again. I'm not trying to cause any harm.

You sure post like it's your first time. Jeeeeeez! And I thought I SOUNDED LIKE THAT.

HEY EVERYONE LET'S KICK THE NEW GUY WHILE HE'S DOWN LET ME HAVE THIS MOMENT

We not kicking him, we responding to an interesting post. Thats how forum debate works

 

[BruceVC]

edit: don’t even try to argue PT had a combat. That was pure garbage.

it was literally just IE combat, there are people on this site that actually found the IWD games to be enjoyable(disgusting, I know)

Yes it did have combat, it wasnt its strong point because the game was more about discovery and narrative from what I remember

 

[rusty_shackleford]

fun PST fact:
the number of times you've died is checked multiple times throughout various scripts in the game
and you have to die a lot of times to unlock a special part of the ending

 

[BruceVC]

fun PST fact:
the number of times you've died is checked multiple times throughout various scripts in the game
and you have to die a lot of times to unlock a special part of the ending

I never knew that, do you have a link that reveals this special ending because I want to read it?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

fun PST fact:
the number of times you've died is checked multiple times throughout various scripts in the game
and you have to die a lot of times to unlock a special part of the ending

I never knew that, do you have a link that reveals this special ending because I want to read it?

It's related to one of the final dialogue choices you get to make, probably covered somewhere. IIRC you have to die at least 20(?) times.
The rest are much less obvious/undocumented and I only found them by grepping through the script & dialogue source when discussing the topic before.

 

[MF]

If DE were a PnP RPG, the DM would be controlling Harry and the players would each be an individual skill trying to persuade the DM to do something, usually in vain but always prompting some edgy response. I don't know what I'd call it, but at the very least it's RPG-adjacent.

 

[Ladonna]

However the great brains in here label it, DE is a great game and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I certainly wouldn't turn down another game of its type so long as the quality is consistent with the first game.

I will file this thread under "What is an RPG?" number 389403

 

[Orud]

Which sold more?

 

[Harthwain]

I'm getting the impression that what you're saying boils down to: if I cannot make a build, then it is not roleplaying. So roleplaying is fundamentally about building a character. I disagree. That's what roleplaying games may be about, for some people. But thats not a prerequisite to playing a role in your own way - which is what constitutes roleplaying itself. If I am playing a farm boy[predetermined], who is to fetch a bucket of water, and there are multiple ways of doing that(within physical boundaries of being a boy), and I can express the values, attitudes or mental states of my character in some way, then that's roleplaying regardless of whether I were given an opportunity to create a build. This might be a semantic problem, if you consider "roleplaying" to be an act of playing a roleplaying game(which has to include more than roleplaying itself to be considered one).

Zed Duke of Banville likes to post around "Tactics is the new RPG!" screenshot, but here is the joke: for some people RPGs are all about tactical combat. This includes class creation. So, no, tactics is not anything new - it's the old. Return to the roots. Just look at Gold Box and other old games marked as RPGs. Hell, even most of the Infinity Engine games also fit the bill (especially the early ones: Icewind Dale 1 and Baldur's Gate 1).

But I do agree with you - roleplaying is not just about picking a class and rolling some stats. It's what you do with them. What kind of character you are playing as. You can have two fighters, but with different specializations. Or identical (as classes), but with different personalities (good vs evil, to give a quick example). Character creation is merely a tool for roleplaying.

If DE were a PnP RPG, the DM would be controlling Harry and the players would each be an individual skill trying to persuade the DM to do something, usually in vain but always prompting some edgy response. I don't know what I'd call it, but at the very least it's RPG-adjacent.

You got it wrong. DM is acting as the skills, while players are Harry.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

a game without combat cannot be an RPG
it might contain RPG elements, but it is not an RPG

 

[MuffinBun]

Today's discussion is brought to you by:
4chan trolling

 

[Tarkleigh]

Apart from the facts that a) this is an obvious troll thread and b) Disco Elysium is not a RPG, I find it baffling that anyone would even try to compare the writing. Torment had lots of text but was elegant and comparatively concise in its writing, while Disco Elysium is purple prose through and through combined with pretentious pseudo-intellectual content. Ten minutes of "enjoying" the writing in DE told me all I need to know about this game. Comparing it to PST is a travesty and anyone who does that should be ashamed of himself

 

[Lim-Dûl]

a game without combat cannot be an RPG
it might contain RPG elements, but it is not an RPG

I am ok with this definition provided one accepts the possibility of verbal combat.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

a game without combat cannot be an RPG
it might contain RPG elements, but it is not an RPG

I am ok with this definition provided one accepts the possibility of verbal combat.

Only if it involves bards.

 

[Harthwain]

Torment had lots of text but was elegant and comparatively concise in its writing, while Disco Elysium is purple prose through and through combined with pretentious pseudo-intellectual content.

"Purple prose through and through"? You're trying too hard. The title of the King of the Purple Prose goes to Torment: Tides of Numenera. I mean, this isn't even a contest.

 

[Humbaba]

It's one thing to like DE, but thinking it's actually better than PST?

 

[Pink Eye]

Non-Edgy Gamer This is a great thread to inflate your RPG posts. Do you think DE is an RPG?