Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Desiderius]

I look at it as getting paid to chase my CE Hobbits around all day. Then I play at night to make sure I'm duly exhausted for the next go round. Night guy screws morning guy.

 

[Chippy]

I like Freebooter 10/Barb 10 on Amiri since she already has a Barb level and I’ve usually given Ekun 8 Sacred Huntmaster levels for Domain abilities and sharing Feats with Ekun.

The one time I tested pure Ranger was on Ekun in that pic and he just destroyed everything. Improved Quarry as a Free Action resolves immediately (unlike clunky Swift/Move Actions). It’s just straight up +4 to hit, nothing to do with Crit confirmation.

It’s even better modded since you continue to get Combat Style Feats at 14 and 18. Sneaks are chip damage at that point. If you want Sneaks you get full Vitals with nice duration at high level Ranger.

I'm not sure about that - if you look at the description of Quarry it says "all threats are automatically confirmed". But you still have to make the threat. If I was building a crit character, I'd go for two-handed fighter and wait for level 19 devestating blow where you make a single attack that gives you a critical hit. I'm assuming that means a scythe character gets a crit + another multiplier at level 20?.

Or level 4 as a Sword Saint for perfect critical and level 16 as a barbarian for the lethal stance line that gives you another - so does that stacks for x2 multipliers?. Just pick a 18-20 weapon...

But anyway, I initially said the Ranger was a weak class for me, but you said it was one of the strongest in the game. I still haven't played it past level 12. So compare it to the slayer - Master Hunter can only be used x5 times, compared to Master Slayers no restriction. Favoured enemy requires metagaming to fully appreciate, and you get x10 is it? against a single enemy, or +2 against as many as possible, or however you mix it up - but Studied target is +5 against all enemies. Plus Slayer gets 6d6 sneak, and all of the talents. I can't see how that compares class for class against Ranger spells, companion, or the party wide FE bonus.

When multicalssing the base Ranger class - unless I've misunderstood the "backswing" description it doubles STR damage after the first attack. So with 18 STR & 4 APR, you're doing your initial attack + double STR dam for the remaining 3 + weapon specalisation + x1 training @ 11 Dam. Isn't that 1 dam over the max FE bonus? On a STR based build you also get x3 free feats in archery style & teleport + 1APR around the battlefield at will, and another 3 combat feats. So do I trade that for the remaining 7 levels in the Ranger class and the high level abilities?.

But as I said, I haven't put too many hours into the game yet, and I'm theory crafting. I should probably play the game to completion and find out for myself.

 

[Lawntoilet]

I look at it as getting paid to chase my CE Hobbits around all day. Then I play at night to make sure I'm duly exhausted for the next go round. Night guy screws morning guy.

As long as you don't get confused and try playing a Spawn Slayer when you're at your day job I don't see a problem with that.
I work 4x10's so it's not so bad, still have a long weekend every week, I appreciate the salutes but I wasn't fishing.
Besides, we all know who are the real heroes:

 

[Desiderius]

I like Freebooter 10/Barb 10 on Amiri since she already has a Barb level and I’ve usually given Ekun 8 Sacred Huntmaster levels for Domain abilities and sharing Feats with Ekun.

The one time I tested pure Ranger was on Ekun in that pic and he just destroyed everything. Improved Quarry as a Free Action resolves immediately (unlike clunky Swift/Move Actions). It’s just straight up +4 to hit, nothing to do with Crit confirmation.

It’s even better modded since you continue to get Combat Style Feats at 14 and 18. Sneaks are chip damage at that point. If you want Sneaks you get full Vitals with nice duration at high level Ranger.

I'm not sure about that - if you look at the description of Quarry it says "all threats are automatically confirmed". But you still have to make the threat. If I was building a crit character, I'd go for two-handed fighter and wait for level 19 devestating blow where you make a single attack that gives you a critical hit. I'm assuming that means a scythe character gets a crit + another multiplier at level 20?.

Or level 4 as a Sword Saint for perfect critical and level 16 as a barbarian for the lethal stance line that gives you another - so does that stacks for x2 multipliers?. Just pick a 18-20 weapon...

But anyway, I initially said the Ranger was a weak class for me, but you said it was one of the strongest in the game.

WTF are you talking about? You use Improved Quarry to get the +4 Insight to hit as a Free Action, numbnuts. The Crit confirmation is just gravy. Yes, of course, if you suffer through 18 levels of suck on THF, you get an autothreat at 19 as a standard action. No thanks.

You didn't say Ranger was a weak class for you, don't try to wriggle out of this with some postmodern bullshit. You said it was weak period.

You're wrong. Own it. Now you're smarter. That's what this game is for.

 

[Desiderius]

So I about got kicked off Discord when some guy in alpha-spoiler was complaining about Lann (who, to be honest, isn't really the best implementation of Zen Archer yet) and I was helping him get his damage up when some guy comes in and starts telling us how great a Vivi splash would be on WIS to hit Lann. Pretty much the worst possible place for a Vivi splash since it wastes just about everything Vivi brings to the table. Sneak addiction is a helluva drug. Old mod left yesterday so new guy comes in to lay down the law after I call Vivi splash hot garbage.

Whatever, it's a tough room. Mostly dudes bragging about soloing Hard. Not going to miss it much.

 

[Sykar]

I like Freebooter 10/Barb 10 on Amiri since she already has a Barb level and I’ve usually given Ekun 8 Sacred Huntmaster levels for Domain abilities and sharing Feats with Ekun.

The one time I tested pure Ranger was on Ekun in that pic and he just destroyed everything. Improved Quarry as a Free Action resolves immediately (unlike clunky Swift/Move Actions). It’s just straight up +4 to hit, nothing to do with Crit confirmation.

It’s even better modded since you continue to get Combat Style Feats at 14 and 18. Sneaks are chip damage at that point. If you want Sneaks you get full Vitals with nice duration at high level Ranger.

CotW nerfs animal companions substantially though. Quote:
"nerfs animal companions to make them same as in pnp :reduces physical prowess bonuses by factor of 2, natural ac bonuses by 1.5, and removes enhanced attacks"

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I completely agree with you on that last point. I actually prefer Vivi 16/Pala 2/Monk 2 for the optimal combination of buffs, defense and offense.

Honestly, I wasn't that impressed. The monk evasion and AC weren't necessary due to already high saves and lots of good armor. The major damage bursts blossoms very late game and is very dependant on buffs. When not using Displacement or Improved Invisibility, Fighter and Slayer are just objectively better options.

 

[Cryomancer]

Anyone played as a Arcanist here? There is thed blood arcanist archetype?

 

[amurath]

I completely agree with you on that last point. I actually prefer Vivi 16/Pala 2/Monk 2 for the optimal combination of buffs, defense and offense.

Honestly, I wasn't that impressed. The monk evasion and AC weren't necessary due to already high saves and lots of good armor. The major damage bursts blossoms very late game and is very dependant on buffs. When not using Displacement or Improved Invisibility, Fighter and Slayer are just objectively better options.

If you're playing in a party, even on Unfair, then I agree with you. As Desiderius and others have shown, having a full BAB class is quite nice and both Slayer and Fighter get some nice perks. My perspective is a bit different however, since I only play solo Unfair. There, you need every buff and point of AC you can get.

 

[Desiderius]

I completely agree with you on that last point. I actually prefer Vivi 16/Pala 2/Monk 2 for the optimal combination of buffs, defense and offense.

Honestly, I wasn't that impressed. The monk evasion and AC weren't necessary due to already high saves and lots of good armor. The major damage bursts blossoms very late game and is very dependant on buffs. When not using Displacement or Improved Invisibility, Fighter and Slayer are just objectively better options.

Vivi is nice specifically for two-bladed weapons and/or when you have a good use for the feral mutagen bite. Can also replace Jewb in the Infusion buffing slot if you need another melee.

Can also turn yourself into a Smilodon with full Sneaks which is pretty damn good.

 

[Desiderius]

I completely agree with you on that last point. I actually prefer Vivi 16/Pala 2/Monk 2 for the optimal combination of buffs, defense and offense.

Honestly, I wasn't that impressed. The monk evasion and AC weren't necessary due to already high saves and lots of good armor. The major damage bursts blossoms very late game and is very dependant on buffs. When not using Displacement or Improved Invisibility, Fighter and Slayer are just objectively better options.

Vivi is nice specifically for two-bladed weapons and/or when you have a good use for the feral mutagen bite. Can also replace Jewb in the Infusion buffing slot if you need another melee.

I like Freebooter 10/Barb 10 on Amiri since she already has a Barb level and I’ve usually given Ekun 8 Sacred Huntmaster levels for Domain abilities and sharing Feats with Ekun.

The one time I tested pure Ranger was on Ekun in that pic and he just destroyed everything. Improved Quarry as a Free Action resolves immediately (unlike clunky Swift/Move Actions). It’s just straight up +4 to hit, nothing to do with Crit confirmation.

It’s even better modded since you continue to get Combat Style Feats at 14 and 18. Sneaks are chip damage at that point. If you want Sneaks you get full Vitals with nice duration at high level Ranger.

CotW nerfs animal companions substantially though. Quote:
"nerfs animal companions to make them same as in pnp :reduces physical prowess bonuses by factor of 2, natural ac bonuses by 1.5, and removes enhanced attacks"

Uh, that’s more than made up for by the fact that they get Feats you can choose and they can wear equipment.

 

[aweigh]

So I about got kicked off Discord when some guy in alpha-spoiler was complaining about Lann (who, to be honest, isn't really the best implementation of Zen Archer yet) and I was helping him get his damage up when some guy comes in and starts telling us how great a Vivi splash would be on WIS to hit Lann. Pretty much the worst possible place for a Vivi splash since it wastes just about everything Vivi brings to the table. Sneak addiction is a helluva drug. Old mod left yesterday so new guy comes in to lay down the law after I call Vivi splash hot garbage.

Whatever, it's a tough room. Mostly dudes bragging about soloing Hard. Not going to miss it much.

They sound like a bunch of fags.

 

[Desiderius]

They sound like a bunch of fags.

Bizarre format.

 

[aweigh]

what does 'bizarre format' mean?

 

[Sykar]

I completely agree with you on that last point. I actually prefer Vivi 16/Pala 2/Monk 2 for the optimal combination of buffs, defense and offense.

Honestly, I wasn't that impressed. The monk evasion and AC weren't necessary due to already high saves and lots of good armor. The major damage bursts blossoms very late game and is very dependant on buffs. When not using Displacement or Improved Invisibility, Fighter and Slayer are just objectively better options.

Vivi is nice specifically for two-bladed weapons and/or when you have a good use for the feral mutagen bite. Can also replace Jewb in the Infusion buffing slot if you need another melee.

I like Freebooter 10/Barb 10 on Amiri since she already has a Barb level and I’ve usually given Ekun 8 Sacred Huntmaster levels for Domain abilities and sharing Feats with Ekun.

The one time I tested pure Ranger was on Ekun in that pic and he just destroyed everything. Improved Quarry as a Free Action resolves immediately (unlike clunky Swift/Move Actions). It’s just straight up +4 to hit, nothing to do with Crit confirmation.

It’s even better modded since you continue to get Combat Style Feats at 14 and 18. Sneaks are chip damage at that point. If you want Sneaks you get full Vitals with nice duration at high level Ranger.

CotW nerfs animal companions substantially though. Quote:
"nerfs animal companions to make them same as in pnp :reduces physical prowess bonuses by factor of 2, natural ac bonuses by 1.5, and removes enhanced attacks"

Uh, that’s more than made up for by the fact that they get Feats you can choose and they can wear equipment.

I have not gotten so far yet with CotW for that to make a noticable difference in terms of gearing, currently at level 6 on my Arcanist in act 2 just about to go to the troll fortress. It reads like the pet is almost cut in half in terms of power, not sure how much 2 ring slots and 1 amulet slot can make up for that. Was it also a bracer slot?

 

[Cryomancer]

Call of the Wild nerfs animal companion BUT summons are still amazing AND the mod also gives some amazing spells like Stop Time.

 

[Desiderius]

Power of pets doesn’t come from a few points of AC or whatever, lol. You can still buff them to high heaven. They also get belt and neck slot, which means Mighty Fists.

Feats are huge because you can give them all the support Feats to make their Trips land as well as Blindfight, Outflank, Shake it Off, etc... You also lvl up their skills so can use them for Mobility or Athletics specialist.

CotW pets are even more broken than unmodded.

 

[Desiderius]

what does 'bizarre format' mean?

Discord

 

[Daidre]

If you're playing in a party, even on Unfair, then I agree with you. As Desiderius and others have shown, having a full BAB class is quite nice and both Slayer and Fighter get some nice perks. My perspective is a bit different however, since I only play solo Unfair. There, you need every buff and point of AC you can get.

And that is kinda wierd honestly. Chances are you are already abusing the shit out f5-f9 for the whole first chapter on every incoming crit and failed skill check. Why not do this for every failed save too?)

 

[Sykar]

Power of pets doesn’t come from a few points of AC or whatever, lol. You can still buff them to high heaven. They also get belt and neck slot, which means Mighty Fists.

Feats are huge because you can give them all the support Feats to make their Trips land as well as Blindfight, Outflank, Shake it Off, etc... You also lvl up their skills so can use them for Mobility or Athletics specialist.

CotW pets are even more broken than unmodded.

Ekuns dog gets 1 skill point per level. How much can you really do with skill points on pets which have 2 int?

 

[Pink Eye]

So I about got kicked off Discord when some guy in alpha-spoiler was complaining about Lann (who, to be honest, isn't really the best implementation of Zen Archer yet) and I was helping him get his damage up when some guy comes in and starts telling us how great a Vivi splash would be on WIS to hit Lann. Pretty much the worst possible place for a Vivi splash since it wastes just about everything Vivi brings to the table. Sneak addiction is a helluva drug. Old mod left yesterday so new guy comes in to lay down the law after I call Vivi splash hot garbage.

Whatever, it's a tough room. Mostly dudes bragging about soloing Hard. Not going to miss it much.

Don't fuss about it. Discord trannies didn't deserve you.

 

[Daidre]

Iron Man is possible on Pathfinder: Kingmaker. There are only three instances that can end your run. The ancient curse, random encounters, and the prologue area. Prologue area is a gamble. The developers could have made it easier by giving you melee companions earlier, instead of giving you linzi and purple gnome. Random encounters can be completely cheesed with invisibility potions and vanish. But you need a good supply of them. Ancient Curse is a build check. Besides those three, once you make it past the first chapter you shouldn't be having much trouble. So far on my Iron Man run I have made it past chapter 2 after about ten restarts. But I didn't do it on Unfair. I had to lower it to Hard after wasting hundreds of hours of dying on Unfair Iron Man.

I've meant the reload-fest for "I am so cool I always solo Unfair from ch1" crowd, nothing to do with actual ironman runs.

And that can't be done without harvesting skill xp from all skills in early areas (like Ratnook traps), often with like 10-15% success rate.

 

[Pink Eye]

I think I misread this entire conversation. I thought you were talking about Iron Man runs. At least that's what I thought you were discussing... Apologies..

 

[Shinros]

So I about got kicked off Discord when some guy in alpha-spoiler was complaining about Lann (who, to be honest, isn't really the best implementation of Zen Archer yet) and I was helping him get his damage up when some guy comes in and starts telling us how great a Vivi splash would be on WIS to hit Lann. Pretty much the worst possible place for a Vivi splash since it wastes just about everything Vivi brings to the table. Sneak addiction is a helluva drug. Old mod left yesterday so new guy comes in to lay down the law after I call Vivi splash hot garbage.

Whatever, it's a tough room. Mostly dudes bragging about soloing Hard. Not going to miss it much.

New guy here, made an account to actually have a decent discussion on the game, been following the pathfinder threads for awhile. On your post? Don't get it either, you didn't say anything that made me raise my eyebrow. But as you know discord and reddit tends to be a place where people with thin skin gather.

 

[Desiderius]

Power of pets doesn’t come from a few points of AC or whatever, lol. You can still buff them to high heaven. They also get belt and neck slot, which means Mighty Fists.

Feats are huge because you can give them all the support Feats to make their Trips land as well as Blindfight, Outflank, Shake it Off, etc... You also lvl up their skills so can use them for Mobility or Athletics specialist.

CotW pets are even more broken than unmodded.

Ekuns dog gets 1 skill point per level. How much can you really do with skill points on pets which have 2 int?

A great deal. Try it and see.

I've got Leopard pet for Val who's my highest in group for Stealth and Mobility. Mastodon pet was my highest in Athletics.