Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Saravan]

With big branching paths I fear this is going to be remembered as the Incredible Bugfest of 2021. In Kingmaker they didn't manage to polish simple branching decisions with no real impact (even small details like the Pitax academy choice were so bugged they could break your entire playthrough); if they are going for choices that can modify substantial parts of the game, they are walking an incredible dangerous path. Hopefully, they learned from their past mistakes.

Assuming they take pre-release testing a bit more seriously this time I find branching playthroughs to be more interesting and ambitious.

Hopefully it also makes the game a bit shorter and concentrated compared to Kingmaker as player fatigue kicked in when reaching the end game.

 

[Lacrymas]

With big branching paths I fear this is going to be remembered as the Incredible Bugfest of 2021. In Kingmaker they didn't manage to polish simple branching decisions with no real impact (even small details like the Pitax academy choice were so bugged they could break your entire playthrough); if they are going for choices that can modify substantial parts of the game, they are walking an incredible dangerous path. Hopefully, they learned from their past mistakes.

That's why I don't play games the moment they are released ;d I'm not willing to alpha test for them.

 

[Cyberarmy]

44. How will dismemberment work? Will it be a graphical thing? Or, will it have some mechanics to it?

Definitely will see it visually, not sure if there will be any mechanics at play yet.

 

[Tacgnol]

With big branching paths I fear this is going to be remembered as the Incredible Bugfest of 2021. In Kingmaker they didn't manage to polish simple branching decisions with no real impact (even small details like the Pitax academy choice were so bugged they could break your entire playthrough); if they are going for choices that can modify substantial parts of the game, they are walking an incredible dangerous path. Hopefully, they learned from their past mistakes.

The easiest way would be to release more onto Early Access. Most devs get too scared of late game spoilers though.

Both Wasteland 2 and D:OS had very polished early chapters due to the length of time they were in EA, sadly the later game chapters were far buggier and less polished because those areas hadn't had much player testing.

However good your QA is, you'll never beat a bunch of players marauding through your game and unintentionally breaking everything. Always been my experience with end users in regular software development.

 

[NJClaw]

With big branching paths I fear this is going to be remembered as the Incredible Bugfest of 2021. In Kingmaker they didn't manage to polish simple branching decisions with no real impact (even small details like the Pitax academy choice were so bugged they could break your entire playthrough); if they are going for choices that can modify substantial parts of the game, they are walking an incredible dangerous path. Hopefully, they learned from their past mistakes.

Assuming they take pre-release testing a bit more seriously this time I find branching playthroughs to be more interesting and ambitious.

Hopefully it also makes the game a bit shorter and concentrated compared to Kingmaker as player fatigue kicked in when reaching the end game.

If they want to keep the 1-20 progression, the game can't be much shorter than Kingmaker, where you already level up crazy fast.

 

[Tacgnol]

With big branching paths I fear this is going to be remembered as the Incredible Bugfest of 2021. In Kingmaker they didn't manage to polish simple branching decisions with no real impact (even small details like the Pitax academy choice were so bugged they could break your entire playthrough); if they are going for choices that can modify substantial parts of the game, they are walking an incredible dangerous path. Hopefully, they learned from their past mistakes.

Assuming they take pre-release testing a bit more seriously this time I find branching playthroughs to be more interesting and ambitious.

Hopefully it also makes the game a bit shorter and concentrated compared to Kingmaker as player fatigue kicked in when reaching the end game.

If they want to keep the 1-20 progression, the game can't be much shorter than Kingmaker, where you already level up crazy fast.

You level up even crazy faster in the original WOTR AP. WOTR is one of the few APs you hit level 20 (most APs finish at 17) in and you hit it relatively early.

 

[Cyberarmy]

The easiest way would be to release more onto Early Access. Most devs get too scared of late game spoilers though.

İn that Q&A they stated that this is all the content for alpha, maybe at closed/open beta stages we'll see more.

 

[Lacrymas]

You'll just level crazy fast. I'd make levels 1 to 10 slower because that's where these types of games shine and lvl 10+ is basically just a blender getting more bananas with each level-up, so it doesn't really matter how fast you level then.

 

[Cryomancer]

Do people serious believe that a lv 10 party can stop a demon invasion and defeat a demon lord? You will gonna need to nerf enemies so much...

You'll just level crazy fast. I'd make levels 1 to 10 slower because that's where these types of games shine and lvl 10+ is basically just a blender getting more bananas with each level-up, so it doesn't really matter how fast you level then.

Not true and we already have BG3 and Solasta with lv cap = 10. But how dare people who enjoy high level gameplay having a single high level game. Every game needs to be low level slaying bandits on Faerun. Lets burn all books/modules about Underdark, Feyworld, Shadowfel, Abyss, elemental planes, etc; because NO FUN ALLOWED. If your idea of fun is different than mine. /sarcasm

If they want to keep the 1-20 progression, the game can't be much shorter than Kingmaker, where you already level up crazy fast.

Will probably have epic mythic levels.

And i disagree that kingmaker is a game which you level up fast. Comparing to P&P sure. Comparing to other CRPG, not. NWN1 on base campaign and hotu has you leveling far faster; The first chapter is far quicker and you can be at lv 9~11 at the end of chap 1. In fact, considering that the game is 150 hours long, and that if you don't use XP sharing and do the DLCs you will end up arrond lv 17, it is almost one level per 10 hours on average. Even if you complete the game fast and has the DLC's and everything, is almost like a lv per 5 hours.

edit : More about mythic adventures https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/mythic/

 

[Tacgnol]

Also when they say "much shorter", I'm still assuming they mean 40-60 hours per playthrough.

Even if they cut loads of stuff they've still got 6 books worth of content to get in.

 

[Tacgnol]

Do people serious believe that a lv 10 party can stop a demon invasion and defeat a demon lord? You will gonna need to nerf enemies so much...

Unless they've changed things you'll hit level 20 and have the mythic path abilities. WOTR is the munchkin paradise AP.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

If they want to keep the 1-20 progression, the game can't be much shorter than Kingmaker, where you already level up crazy fast.

Without the extra dungeon DLC, I think thing slowed down a bit aroudn level 14 or so, around Varnhold I think, so they have room to wiggle on progression.

 

[Cryomancer]

Unless they've changed things you'll hit level 20 and have the mythic path abilities. WOTR is the munchkin paradise AP.

Yep; Pathfinder 1e is very different than D&D 5e. Most modules for 5e rarely get anywere near lv 20. With Descend to Arvenus being a lv 1 to 13 module. And people say that after lv 10, you are in Arvenus(not sure) which sorry for low level players but there are no way to survive on Arvenus unless you are past lv 10. Most pathfinder book collection in other hands seems to go from low level to high level.

 

[Tacgnol]

Unless they've changed things you'll hit level 20 and have the mythic path abilities. WOTR is the munchkin paradise AP.

Yep; Pathfinder 1e is very different than D&D 5e. Most modules for 5e rarely get anywere near lv 20. With Descend to Arvenus being a lv 1 to 13 module. And people say that after lv 10, you are in Arvenus(not sure) which sorry for low level players but there are no way to survive on Arvenus unless you are past lv 10. Most pathfinder book collection in other hands seems to go from low level to high level.

Yeah 5e generally finishes at pretty low/mid levels but pretty much every Pathfinder AP apart from WOTR (that goes to 20) and Council of Thieves (that goes to 15) ends at level 17.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

You'll just level crazy fast. I'd make levels 1 to 10 slower because that's where these types of games shine and lvl 10+ is basically just a blender getting more bananas with each level-up, so it doesn't really matter how fast you level then.

Might as well make all the characters fighters then. Fuck low level is boring as fuck. I am glad that Kingmaker is very fast early and you get to level 7/8 fairly quickly.

Also when they say "much shorter", I'm still assuming they mean 40-60 hours per playthrough.

I think in some interview Avellone said that they initially planned PfK to be 80 hours afair that went too long into 100+ hours. They are trying to keep each playthrough of WoR to be at that 80 hours benchmark IIRC.

Need to find the link, but I am pretty sure I read that.

 

[Cryomancer]

Yeah 5e generally finishes at pretty low/mid levels but pretty much every Pathfinder AP apart from WOTR (that goes to 20) and Council of Thieves (that goes to 15) ends at level 17.

How mythic is different than epic?

 

[Lacrymas]

There's only a single type of player who likes high level D&D/Pathfinder - those who like to be overpowered and breeze through the content by spamming the extraordinarily badly designed high level spells. Curiously enough, they are also only fans of arcane spellcasters.

RE: Mythic vs epic - I think you get your first mythic abilities at lvl 4? Don't quote me on the specifics, but it's a system separate from and parallel to the usual levels. Epic levels are 20+ which don't exist in D&D 5E, I think also Pathfinder.

 

[Ontopoly]

I understand wanting a low level campaign in table top because the numbers eventually can get over whelming and there can be a lot to deal with, but video games are a perfect opportunity to experience the higher levels. You have a computer keeping track of everything for you, you don't have to wait for someone else to take forever in their turn, managing a bunch of buffs, etc. I don't know why someone would throw away the opportunity to experience the more complex parts when they're given a medium that can make it more manageable and allow you to focus on the system instead of wasting time adding up a bunch of modifiers. Also sometimes you want to fight dragons.

 

[NJClaw]

Unless they've changed things you'll hit level 20 and have the mythic path abilities. WOTR is the munchkin paradise AP.

Yep; Pathfinder 1e is very different than D&D 5e. Most modules for 5e rarely get anywere near lv 20. With Descend to Arvenus being a lv 1 to 13 module. And people say that after lv 10, you are in Arvenus(not sure) which sorry for low level players but there are no way to survive on Arvenus unless you are past lv 10. Most pathfinder book collection in other hands seems to go from low level to high level.

In 3.x you can easily defeat a balor at level 10 (not a demon lord, but still...) even using just core rules. If you use more or less obscure splatbooks, by level 12 you can easily take down all the demon and devil lords in Fiendish Codex 1 and 2 at once.

I think you are a bit too obsessed with levels and their meaning: D&D 3.x is so broken at its core that they don't really mean that much. The optimization of your characters is a far more relevant indicator of what challenges you can overcome.

 

[Tacgnol]

Yeah 5e generally finishes at pretty low/mid levels but pretty much every Pathfinder AP apart from WOTR (that goes to 20) and Council of Thieves (that goes to 15) ends at level 17.

How mythic is different than epic?

In the original AP, Mythic is separate to your class. You start getting the Mythic abilities quite low level.

You picked a path like Guardian or Archmage and you got abilities both passive and active that you could use to complement your class.

Owlcat have gone in a slightly less generic direction, but I would assume the implementation will be similar.

 

[Lacrymas]

I think you are a bit too obsessed with levels and their meaning:

It's not the levels they are obsessed with, it's the high level arcane spells which trivialize the entire game.

 

[Cryomancer]

There's only a single type of player who likes high level D&D/Pathfinder - those who like to be overpowered and breeze through the content by spamming the extraordinarily badly designed high level spells.

You are ignoring that enemies CAN USE high level spells and spell like abilities. And that in many games, they use Sodalis on nwn1 - hotu stops the time, casts deadly traps and so on.

Not liking this things are ok, but you already have 2 games where this abilities can't be obtained. While fans of high level gameplay has only ONE game.

I already played a lot of low level games, Dark Sun Shattered lands was fun but become boring after the third run due the lack of interesting spells. ToEE is IMO much better without the level cap but i defeated ToEE with the lv cap first.

If you use more or less obscure splatbooks, by level 12 you can easily take down all the demon and devil lords in Fiendish Codex 1 and 2 at once.

Yep; But you are building mid level pun pun builds to take out high level mobs. There are no way to with role play builds, you can do the same...

 

[Tacgnol]

I think you are a bit too obsessed with levels and their meaning:

It's not the levels they are obsessed with, it's the high level arcane spells which trivialize the entire game.

That is the issue with high level play. Generally low/mid level play is more interesting.

It is fun to occasionally have a crazy munchkin game like WOTR though.

 

[Cryomancer]

It's not the levels they are obsessed with, it's the high level arcane spells which trivialize the entire game.

Wrong, try face Spawn of rovagug with 6 arcane casters on kingmaker. Then try the same with 6 kineticists or 4 barbarians, a druid and a cleric to cast buffs on the 4 barbarians and see the difference...

 

[Lacrymas]

You are ignoring that enemies CAN USE high level spells and spell like abilities. And that in many games, they use Sodalis on nwn1 - hotu stops the time, casts deadly traps and so on.

Yes, but not in the same quantity and variety as a PC mage. There isn't a single monster/NPC which has access to the entire spell list and can spam them one after the other to combo you to death. Unlike the PCs.