Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Shadenuat]

That would need a Transmutation specialist. And I would not be able to combine it with Extend, Stinking Cloud, Heroism or extended Sense Vitals. Hard to know how many you need. Sorcerer solves that with 8 casts of lvl 3 spells and many others.

Why not? Extend/Heighten Stinking Cloud, tweak your selection around levels.

If you know what are you using all the time, it is not that hard.

It is easier with Sorc, sure.
But it is possible with Wizard/Cleric and metamagic, too. You probably just overestimate how much you need something instead of memorizing 2 Heroisms, 6 hastes and 6 Hightened Stinking Clouds.

 

[ArchAngel]

That would need a Transmutation specialist. And I would not be able to combine it with Extend, Stinking Cloud, Heroism or extended Sense Vitals. Hard to know how many you need. Sorcerer solves that with 8 casts of lvl 3 spells and many others.

Why not? Extend/Heighten Stinking Cloud, tweak your selection around levels.

If you know what are you using all the time, it is not that hard.

It is easier with Sorc, sure.
But it is possible with Wizard/Cleric and metamagic, too. You probably just overestimate how much you need something instead of memorizing 2 Heroisms, 6 hastes and 6 Hightened Stinking Clouds.

That works when you are doing stuff again and again and know which battles await. For first playthrough (and often in PnP) it is better to have all you options available at all times instead of guessing.

 

[Sacred82]

Pathfinder noob here, I'm playing with all the settings on normal as far as I can make out, 1x damage, normal strength enemies etc, "normal" here hopefully meaning as close to PnP as possible.

Weakened enemy stats are P&P normal.

I'm honestly wondering what settings normal people/ the Kodex play at. Usually I'm not a fan of too many difficulty affecting options, but it's done well in this game. Putting everything on normal including crit hits seems to make for a challenging experience, if only because you don't want to waste your life micromanaging the shit out of this game.

Roguey

What do you say about them achieving off-handedly what Sawyer never managed, i.e. limiting rest spam?

Random encounters, having to assign camp duties, and time limits. They all work together pretty fucking perfectly. Especially if you don't play with 6 chars like me. I even had to give up trying to use just my druid for resting because the healing just didn't measure up per rest so I would have had to rest spam.

 

[Shadenuat]

That works when you are doing stuff again and again and know which battles await. For first playthrough (and often in PnP) it is better to have all you options available at all times instead of guessing.

For first playthrough it's a lot easier to have higher level spells available as quick is possible. What can be better than getting Haste and Fireball before even fighting Stag Lord? Hmm.

 

[Roguey]

What do you say about them achieving off-handedly what Sawyer never managed, i.e. limiting rest spam?

Random encounters, having to assign camp duties, and time limits. They all work together pretty fucking perfectly. Especially if you don't play with 6 chars like me. I even had to give up trying to use just my druid for resting because the healing just didn't measure up per rest so I would have had to rest spam.

He never managed because he was unwilling to create strategic gameplay that could result in a "you can't continue to play this game" failure state.

 

[Sacred82]

What do you say about them achieving off-handedly what Sawyer never managed, i.e. limiting rest spam?

Random encounters, having to assign camp duties, and time limits. They all work together pretty fucking perfectly. Especially if you don't play with 6 chars like me. I even had to give up trying to use just my druid for resting because the healing just didn't measure up per rest so I would have had to rest spam.

He never managed because he was unwilling to create strategic gameplay that could result in a "you can't continue to play this game" failure state.

iow Obs are too big to make gud RPG's

 

[Sykar]

That would need a Transmutation specialist. And I would not be able to combine it with Extend, Stinking Cloud, Heroism or extended Sense Vitals. Hard to know how many you need. Sorcerer solves that with 8 casts of lvl 3 spells and many others.

Why not? Extend/Heighten Stinking Cloud, tweak your selection around levels.

If you know what are you using all the time, it is not that hard.

It is easier with Sorc, sure.
But it is possible with Wizard/Cleric and metamagic, too. You probably just overestimate how much you need something instead of memorizing 2 Heroisms, 6 hastes and 6 Hightened Stinking Clouds.

That works when you are doing stuff again and again and know which battles await. For first playthrough (and often in PnP) it is better to have all you options available at all times instead of guessing.

Wizard gets those precious buffs faster. Furthermore you cast more of them and you can opt for something else if you so wish. Finally quite a few spells are basically useful all the time. Haste is one such spell. There is basically no reason not to have at least one if not more at all times.

 

[Shadenuat]

just look at him, looking for his barbarian halfling mistress vanished

Spoiler

and never return for him later,
never.

(

 

[Sharpedge]

The pets are the true heroes of this story.

 

[Haplo]

I believe Crane Wing/Riposte have been fixed not to work when both your hands are occupied. Spell Combat counts as occupying your offhand with spellcasting.
It used to work before.

So it appears I have to slightly modify my Sword Saint build.

Well, nuts.
In that case, what feats would you and/or VentilatorOfDoom take instead of Crane Wing+Riposte for a Magus?
Besides the ones that seem obvious like Spell Pen, etc.

In my opinion, putting too much AC on the magus is a mistake that acts like a trap. It works well early on before level 4. After level 4 you have access to mirror image and later imp invis. Use them to tank. The ac won't matter when they can't see/hit you at all.

Instead make a strong build, suffer for a few levels the humiliation of having to send Valerie in first. Take the power attack/cleave and carmuegeon smash line. Fark your enemies up.

Oh and take the fiend bloodline and get that sweet +6 to str.

What if I'm not going Eldritch Scion and not pumping Cha? I always give Val Curmudgeon Smash anyway.
Power Attack seems just OK since you're not full BAB (although you can compensate with some of the Arcana features and True Strike) and Cleave feats don't seem that good either honestly past early game. I could be wrong but Outflank+Combat Reflexes+Seize the Moment seem like a better way to pile on the attacks, especially if Amiri or Nok-Nok is in melee with you.

Cornugon Smash is a kind of a trap in a party setting with a dedicated tank IMO. Just open with Dazzling Display on one of your more passive characters (like Val) and make everyone shaken in one go (and reduce incoming damage/lower saves of ALL enemies). Personally I'm a fan of Shatter Defenses (requires Dazzling Display), as it cripples the defenses of many enemies. It works on shaken enemies, so if you have one dedicated "aoe shaker", other characters with that feat can benefit without heavy investments in Persuasion/Intimidation & related feats.
Outflank is like mandatory whenever you get 4 BAB. That feat is just crazy.

On the other hand, from what I've read Seize the Moment does not generate double Attacks of Opportunity with Outflank, so is of limited use.
Other mandatory feats for me include Blind Fight. Probably Combat Casting - for Strenght builds at least. Weapon Spec. and Improved Crit might be worthwhile.
Then if there are still some feats left, perhaps some Critical feats: Focus & Staggering Critical. Sword Saint could aim for Blinding Critical (or maybe even Tiring->Exhausting, if you can spare 3 feats).

 

[Shadenuat]

Monks I've yet to play (not "test", on late game tests they seem to perform fine and tank well, but might be worse during actual full playthrough), but seen good things done with them (like solo unfair playthrough)

Magus is absolutely great, and is the easiest tank ever - just cast some spells and you can stand toe to toe with any unfair 150-300 crit faggets. I admit recently it is hard for me to even imagine party without Magus, because it is so nice to have a fighter/mage to cast spells Wizard is too lazy to memorize and also provide both damage and tanking to party (and skills of your choice depending on what Magus/Bloodline you play).

HD spells you are absolutely correct, but you don't have to use them - use not HD CC (like Confusion instead of Deep Slumber; ffs BG2 Spell Revisions fixed Sleep by scaling it with wizard level, if only Owlcats played BG2 with mods eh?)

Conjuration wizords make everything trivially easy

why Wizards are not as good as Bards

And here is where you lost me

 

[Chippy]

What do you say about them achieving off-handedly what Sawyer never managed, i.e. limiting rest spam?

Random encounters, having to assign camp duties, and time limits. They all work together pretty fucking perfectly. Especially if you don't play with 6 chars like me. I even had to give up trying to use just my druid for resting because the healing just didn't measure up per rest so I would have had to rest spam.

He never managed because he was unwilling to create strategic gameplay that could result in a "you can't continue to play this game" failure state.

He just managed to create a state of game that I was unwilling to continue playing at all.


Sorry...couldn't resist...and as I continue to remind everyone - I was a gold backer, so deserve a few moments of saltiness.

 

[ArchAngel]

LOL WTF.. I found out why my Tristian was acting strangely after I rescued him from Defanced Sisters. He had a fucking Permanent Stinking Cloud effect on lol. And I could not dispel it or anything. I had to rest with that option on that removes all negative effects on rest.
This game is still so bugged...

 

[Lawntoilet]

I believe Crane Wing/Riposte have been fixed not to work when both your hands are occupied. Spell Combat counts as occupying your offhand with spellcasting.
It used to work before.

So it appears I have to slightly modify my Sword Saint build.

Well, nuts.
In that case, what feats would you and/or VentilatorOfDoom take instead of Crane Wing+Riposte for a Magus?
Besides the ones that seem obvious like Spell Pen, etc.

In my opinion, putting too much AC on the magus is a mistake that acts like a trap. It works well early on before level 4. After level 4 you have access to mirror image and later imp invis. Use them to tank. The ac won't matter when they can't see/hit you at all.

Instead make a strong build, suffer for a few levels the humiliation of having to send Valerie in first. Take the power attack/cleave and carmuegeon smash line. Fark your enemies up.

Oh and take the fiend bloodline and get that sweet +6 to str.

What if I'm not going Eldritch Scion and not pumping Cha? I always give Val Curmudgeon Smash anyway.
Power Attack seems just OK since you're not full BAB (although you can compensate with some of the Arcana features and True Strike) and Cleave feats don't seem that good either honestly past early game. I could be wrong but Outflank+Combat Reflexes+Seize the Moment seem like a better way to pile on the attacks, especially if Amiri or Nok-Nok is in melee with you.

Cornugon Smash is a kind of a trap in a party setting with a dedicated tank IMO. Just open with Dazzling Display on one of your more passive characters (like Val) and make everyone shaken in one go (and reduce incoming damage/lower saves of ALL enemies). Personally I'm a fan of Shatter Defenses (requires Dazzling Display), as it cripples the defenses of many enemies. It works on shaken enemies, so if you have one dedicated "aoe shaker", other characters with that feat can benefit without heavy investments in Persuasion/Intimidation & related feats.
Outflank is like mandatory whenever you get 4 BAB. That feat is just crazy.

On the other hand, from what I've read Seize the Moment does not generate double Attacks of Opportunity with Outflank, so is of limited use.
Other mandatory feats for me include Blind Fight. Probably Combat Casting - for Strenght builds at least. Weapon Spec. and Improved Crit might be worthwhile.
Then if there are still some feats left, perhaps some Critical feats: Focus & Staggering Critical. Sword Saint could aim for Blinding Critical (or maybe even Tiring->Exhausting, if you can spare 3 feats).

Thanks! I'm not sure Combat Casting is necessary really but it would help in early game at least. Definitely every melee fighter should have Outflank and Blind Fight now too.
I don't think you can take Staggering Crit until level 19 though (don't get BAB 13 until level 18), so unless you're soloing or Sword Saint that's probably out.

 

[Yosharian]

I believe Crane Wing/Riposte have been fixed not to work when both your hands are occupied. Spell Combat counts as occupying your offhand with spellcasting.
It used to work before.

So it appears I have to slightly modify my Sword Saint build.

Well, nuts.
In that case, what feats would you and/or VentilatorOfDoom take instead of Crane Wing+Riposte for a Magus?
Besides the ones that seem obvious like Spell Pen, etc.

In my opinion, putting too much AC on the magus is a mistake that acts like a trap. It works well early on before level 4. After level 4 you have access to mirror image and later imp invis. Use them to tank. The ac won't matter when they can't see/hit you at all.

Instead make a strong build, suffer for a few levels the humiliation of having to send Valerie in first. Take the power attack/cleave and carmuegeon smash line. Fark your enemies up.

Oh and take the fiend bloodline and get that sweet +6 to str.

What if I'm not going Eldritch Scion and not pumping Cha? I always give Val Curmudgeon Smash anyway.
Power Attack seems just OK since you're not full BAB (although you can compensate with some of the Arcana features and True Strike) and Cleave feats don't seem that good either honestly past early game. I could be wrong but Outflank+Combat Reflexes+Seize the Moment seem like a better way to pile on the attacks, especially if Amiri or Nok-Nok is in melee with you.

Cornugon Smash is a kind of a trap in a party setting with a dedicated tank IMO. Just open with Dazzling Display on one of your more passive characters (like Val) and make everyone shaken in one go (and reduce incoming damage/lower saves of ALL enemies). Personally I'm a fan of Shatter Defenses (requires Dazzling Display), as it cripples the defenses of many enemies. It works on shaken enemies, so if you have one dedicated "aoe shaker", other characters with that feat can benefit without heavy investments in Persuasion/Intimidation & related feats.
Outflank is like mandatory whenever you get 4 BAB. That feat is just crazy.

On the other hand, from what I've read Seize the Moment does not generate double Attacks of Opportunity with Outflank, so is of limited use.
Other mandatory feats for me include Blind Fight. Probably Combat Casting - for Strenght builds at least. Weapon Spec. and Improved Crit might be worthwhile.
Then if there are still some feats left, perhaps some Critical feats: Focus & Staggering Critical. Sword Saint could aim for Blinding Critical (or maybe even Tiring->Exhausting, if you can spare 3 feats).

Thanks! I'm not sure Combat Casting is necessary really but it would help in early game at least. Definitely every melee fighter should have Outflank and Blind Fight now too.
I don't think you can take Staggering Crit until level 19 though (don't get BAB 13 until level 18), so unless you're soloing or Sword Saint that's probably out.

Combat Casting is a waste of a feat that's for sure.

 

[Shadenuat]

10 base
+15 from cha
+9 from spell lvl
+2 from ill focus
+2 from Maya's Charm
+1 from Gnome
+1 from bracers
+2 from ring of reckless courage
+1 from ring of circumstances
+2 from arcane bloodline
= 45

lol I should have played gnome illusionist instead of enchantress. knew it.

 

[Yosharian]

lol I should have played gnome illusionist instead of enchantress. knew it.

Yeah but Enchantment is way more useful for the whole game... You don't get Weird at level 5.

 

[Shadenuat]

Well spam color spray (better than any level 1-2 Enchantment spell anyway), then spam buffs, then Phantasmal Killer until you get Shadow Invocation & Phantasmal Web
worth trying.

I wonder if Phantasmal Putrefaction is still broken (it counted all creatures as immune last time I tried it) - only 6th level spell

on seventh level you only have Invisibility Mass and not combat one...

8th level is Invocation Greater
9th Weird

Man Illusion did not get lots of love as well I see.

 

[Thonius]

Eh they promised to add 3 spells per school on every level... maybe they will add it with DLC's?
EDIT: Not add but they promised that every school will be represented with at least 3 spells per level.

 

[Israfael]

I wonder if Phantasmal Putrefaction is still broken (it counted all creatures as immune last time I tried it) - only 6th level spell

It was broken in 1.1 (did not bother even taking it after I had to re-start from chapter 3)

Well spam color spray (better than any level 1-2 Enchantment spell anyway), then spam buffs, then Phantasmal Killer until you get Shadow Invocation & Phantasmal Web

Yes, there's not a lot of spells between lv 5 and lv 9. Mass Invis is kinda useless as well, spec ability and AT lv 10 thing is much better for its intended purpose. I wish there was more quests liike that 'don't hit the animals' thingie that forced me to change spellbook to something else

Eh they promised to add 3 spells per school on every level... maybe they will add it with DLC's?
EDIT: Not add but they promised that every school will be represented with at least 3 spells per level.

With exception of evocation and transmutation (and i think there's 2 spell/tier there too), it's not true

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah I feel like Enchantment just has a ton more options, but then again you hit a brick wall when you come up against mind-affecting immunes I guess. That's why I built mine as a partial Disintegrate specialist as well.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

I feel that I am fucked up so badly that I am going to do a new walkthrough.

Spoiler

Is there any chance to get a "true ending" (Nyrissa cured from curse and her soul returned) even if you have fake briar from body of Irovetti? I think I kinda screwed.

 

[ga♥]

lol I should have played gnome illusionist instead of enchantress. knew it.

I have been preaching Weird vs Wild Hunt mobs for weeks already. I guess you playing on easy and barely knowing the mechanics made you not really needing it.

 

[Fenix]

That is paranoia, and it undermines the entire "conservative" position just as SJWs undermine progressive positions.

It never was a paranoia, which is clearly could be seen by anyone today.
Statement that SJW is SJW only when it takes some extreme forms aka "10 niggers banging 1 white man" is as false as there at least a grain of paranoia or that there is "good SJW".

 

[Yosharian]

lol I should have played gnome illusionist instead of enchantress. knew it.

I have been preaching Weird vs Wild Hunt mobs for weeks already. I guess you playing on easy and barely knowing the mechanics made you not really needing it.

We can't all be pro gamers like you