Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Israfael]

For AT in this game, you don't even need anyone to stay close - just pop in class invisibility, and you have 15 rounds of aoe/ray sneak attacks. 100+ fireballs in the face (with rods and shiet), hellfire machine gun that does 200-300 damage per pop (and ignores all resists/SR/immunities with the cheaters rod you can get from the crafter NPC)

 

[Israfael]

because I was running some derpy research projects and couldn't advance the storyline.

Also, the kingdom stuff got really hard for me somewhere after chapter 4-5. DC 30+ checks with tier 2 advisors who I had barely had time to rank up (and most of the options for these advisor slots kinda suck, completely unlike the first ones where you'll easily slot in a companion with +5 *before* you stack items on them). No idea how you're supposed to get a decent chance of success on them in time.

1) you don't need to wait on those research projects (if you do, you almost certainly loose) - you can find all the main quest locations manually with high enough perception (Armag's tomb requires circa 33, others (menagerie/little town/bandit camp) less, if I remember correctly)

2) If you change an advisor, the progress is not reset or suffers in any way. I tended to use Jhod as an ayatollah, and I replaced him later with Harrim as soon as I got +6 wis cap. Also, you can swap items between your chars to help them roll higher on the day the task is finished. Some of the advisor upgrades can or guaranteedly are lowering the kingdom status - there's some sort of merchant conspiracy tied to councillor upgrades, rebellion tied in to regent upgrades and so on. they are solved by other advisors, so it might make the situation worse. Also, "failure" resolutions are not really doing anything, except lost stats, while disasters are actually damaging your kingdom status (and that leads to chain fail reaction and total collapse)

 

[Jaedar]

For AT in this game, you don't even need anyone to stay close - just pop in class invisibility, and you have 15 rounds of aoe/ray sneak attacks. 100+ fireballs in the face (with rods and shiet), hellfire machine gun that does 200-300 damage per pop (and ignores all resists/SR/immunities with the cheaters rod you can get from the crafter NPC)

Each ray doing sneak attack damage is bug though.

1) you don't need to wait on those research projects (if you do, you almost certainly loose) - you can find all the main quest locations manually with high enough perception (Armag's tomb requires circa 33, others (menagerie/little town/bandit camp) less, if I remember correctly)

Wrong chapter friend. I'm talking about a later one, and there you do have to wait.

Spoiler

you have to get into nyrissas dream to progress, and you have to finish a project to do that.

2) If you change an advisor, the progress is not reset or suffers in any way. I tended to use Jhod as an ayatollah, and I replaced him later with Harrim as soon as I got +6 wis cap. Also, you can swap items between your chars to help them roll higher on the day the task is finished. Some of the advisor upgrades can or guaranteedly are lowering the kingdom status - there's some sort of merchant conspiracy tied to councillor upgrades, rebellion tied in to regent upgrades and so on. they are solved by other advisors, so it might make the situation worse. Also, "failure" resolutions are not really doing anything, except lost stats, while disasters are actually damaging your kingdom status (and that leads to chain fail reaction and total collapse)

I do know about this but when my minister has only +2 dex base, he still won't have a chance at beating a DC 30 event at rank one.

When I replay this, I'm going to try and plan my builds/councilors more appropriately.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Inquisitors get the important cleric spells like death ward) on same character level as clerics, which just makes their worse spell progression almost meaningless.

Hilariously enough, but my Alchemist was able acquire Death Ward much earlier than my Inquisitor or test Clreic, this means that Death Ward isn't exclusive & important spell for cleric. I have my Inquisitor for casting spells that can't be cast by arcane caster and as helping hand in skills. Ah, also as melee dps with sneak attacks.

 

[Jaedar]

Inquisitors get the important cleric spells like death ward) on same character level as clerics, which just makes their worse spell progression almost meaningless.

Hilariously enough, but my Alchemist was able acquire Death Ward much earlier than my Inquisitor or test Clreic, this means that Death Ward isn't exclusive & important spell for cleric. I have my Inquisitor for casting spells that can't be cast by arcane caster and as helping hand in skills. Ah, also as melee dps with sneak attacks.

I use my alchemist for melee sneak attacks. The free off hand claw and bite attacks are quite strong.

And I have both my inq and alch cast death ward, because neither of them have enough spell slots for entire party on their own.

 

[Shadenuat]

Farming Pitax Influence for +20 to (almost) everything a few times also helped.

How the f you actually did that? For me, all stats decreased on Pithax influence triumph/success (although less so as compared to ignore/failure), I actually noticed it quite late, so some of my stats went sub-100

In my experience, the game reports +20, even though your stats go down. Took me a while to notice...

I metagamed shiet hard so either I did not lose stats or indeed Triumph increased my stats, because I checked on them always.

Shadenuat what build is radagast?

He is a Wizard, "the Brown", haven't you read Tolkien? Duh.

Strong and charismatic!

Found an interesting "tier list"

This list is too old, it doesn't feature Unchained classes. Also PnP "can do anything" is "can do anything", in PK you only need to do combat, so if class only does ok at combat he is good anyway.

Generally speaking tiers lists in PK look like:

1. Pure caster
2. up to 6th level caster
3. Latest Unchained stuff (like Unchained Rogue)
4. Lost and forgotten dudes / pure physical dudes

AFAIK

 

[Sykar]

4) Sorceror - better than Wizard in late game.

If you mean by late game level 19/20 you have a minor point. Otherwise the Wizard will not only have a noticeable advantage over the Sorcerer when it comes to higher level spells he also has a lot more feats for customization. Thanks to Bound Object he can also make good use of those high level spells and his broader spell selection. In essence Sorcerer has more low level spells available while the Wizard has more higher level spells and a broader spell selection.
If he fancies Divination and/or Hare familiar he can get an initiative a pure Sorcerer can only dream of. Skill-wise the only real advantage Sorcerer is having Persuasion as a class skill. Wizards can mazimize half a dozen skills easily though.

 

[ArchAngel]

I just went to Rushlight Tournament and checked those traders


Went to that area with over 300 000 gp, now I have 130 000 only :D

Also I recently acquired the Ruin quarterstaff, damn that is one fine fucking weapon for neutral or chaotic characters. Also seems like a fine weapon for Eldritch Knight two handed

 

[Lawntoilet]

I believe Crane Wing/Riposte have been fixed not to work when both your hands are occupied. Spell Combat counts as occupying your offhand with spellcasting.
It used to work before.

So it appears I have to slightly modify my Sword Saint build.

Well, nuts.
In that case, what feats would you and/or VentilatorOfDoom take instead of Crane Wing+Riposte for a Magus?
Besides the ones that seem obvious like Spell Pen, etc.

In my opinion, putting too much AC on the magus is a mistake that acts like a trap. It works well early on before level 4. After level 4 you have access to mirror image and later imp invis. Use them to tank. The ac won't matter when they can't see/hit you at all.

Instead make a strong build, suffer for a few levels the humiliation of having to send Valerie in first. Take the power attack/cleave and carmuegeon smash line. Fark your enemies up.

Oh and take the fiend bloodline and get that sweet +6 to str.

What if I'm not going Eldritch Scion and not pumping Cha? I always give Val Curmudgeon Smash anyway.
Power Attack seems just OK since you're not full BAB (although you can compensate with some of the Arcana features and True Strike) and Cleave feats don't seem that good either honestly past early game. I could be wrong but Outflank+Combat Reflexes+Seize the Moment seem like a better way to pile on the attacks, especially if Amiri or Nok-Nok is in melee with you.

 

[ArchAngel]

4) Sorceror - better than Wizard in late game.

If you mean by late game level 19/20 you have a minor point. Otherwise the Wizard will not only have a noticeable advantage over the Sorcerer when it comes to higher level spells he also has a lot more feats for customization. Thanks to Bound Object he can also make good use of those high level spells and his broader spell selection. In essence Sorcerer has more low level spells available while the Wizard has more higher level spells and a broader spell selection.
If he fancies Divination and/or Hare familiar he can get an initiative a pure Sorcerer can only dream of. Skill-wise the only real advantage Sorcerer is having Persuasion as a class skill.

Sorcerer has a nice advantage with metamagic. That has always been one of its main advantages.

 

[Sykar]

4) Sorceror - better than Wizard in late game.

If you mean by late game level 19/20 you have a minor point. Otherwise the Wizard will not only have a noticeable advantage over the Sorcerer when it comes to higher level spells he also has a lot more feats for customization. Thanks to Bound Object he can also make good use of those high level spells and his broader spell selection. In essence Sorcerer has more low level spells available while the Wizard has more higher level spells and a broader spell selection.
If he fancies Divination and/or Hare familiar he can get an initiative a pure Sorcerer can only dream of. Skill-wise the only real advantage Sorcerer is having Persuasion as a class skill.

Sorcerer has a nice advantage with metamagic. That has always been one of its main advantages.

In what way is Sorcerer who has to waste full rounds on metamagic spells always having an advantage over Wizard who does not suffer such a disadvantage?

 

[Shadenuat]

If he fancies Divination

Then he has basically no extra spells, forever. Filling your slots with True Strike every level is so fun

DO NOT pick divination as your specialization, initiative is broken/useless, aura is not worth it to sacrifice spell slots. At least until they fix it and add more spells which are actually useful.
Same with Enchantment, since so many enemies (i.e. Fey) have an umbrella immun to Mind Affecting/Compulsion (level 1 Mites are already immune).

Pick Evoker, Conjurer, Transmuter (if you don't plan taking Octavia) or even Necromancer.

Personally the way I like muh arcane power in party is Wizard + Magus or Scion.
Wizard levels up quickly and gets best spells to solve encounters earliest
While Magus memorizes/learns Haste to cast it 6 times, buffs animal companions and so on.

 

[Sykar]

If he fancies Divination

Then he has basically no extra spells, forever. Filling your slots with True Strike every level is so fun

DO NOT pick divination as your specialization, initiative is broken/useless, aura is not worth it to sacrifice spell slots (especially Thassilonian).
Same with Enchantment, since so many enemies (i.e. Fey) have an umbrella immun to Mind Affecting/Compulsion (level 1 Mites are already immune).

Pick Evoker, Conjurer, Transmuter (if you don't plan taking Octavia) or even Necromancer.

Personally the way I like muh arcane power in party is Wizard + Magus or Scion.
Wizard levels up quickly and gets best spells to solve encounters earliest
While Magus memorizes/learns Haste to cast it 6 times, buffs animal companions and so on.

True Seeing is great, as is Foresight and Prediction of Failure. There is also Sense Vitals which is pretty nice and See Invisible is situation ally useful as well. Add in Extend and Quicken and you won't have too much of a problem filling up those extra slots with useful spells especially later.
As to whether Initiative is broken or not, I got no idea. It is the first time I see someone claiming that. If it is, then it is not a problem of the specialization but an implementation problem and my point still stands.

 

[Shadenuat]

There is nothing "great" about those spells you mentioned, like, at all. Not only they do not work as good as you might think, but enemies often do not use concealment that is affected by them.

I mean, hell, True Seeing does not even reveal invisible creatures at all. It just cancels your miss chance from Combat Invis, more or less.

How "important" Initiative is you can see on VoD video where he slaughters everything with prebuffed party regardless of their initiative (wild hunt due to their wild link/stats always roll ~25+).

 

[Israfael]

Each ray doing sneak attack damage is bug though

Well, I'm pretty sure this is unfixable as it'd require them to haul-over whole attack / combat system. Besides, it's just make people switch to aoe instead of ray attacks if it worked as some here claim it supposed to be.

Wrong chapter friend. I'm talking about a later one, and there you do have to wait

It's just one thing, and pretty short wait if you consider that other three things are spammed practically non-stop compared to this quarterly (i think?) event.

Pick Evoker, Conjurer, Transmuter (if you don't plan taking Octavia) or even Necromancer.

I'm playing as illusionist, it's okay considering that most fey have low will/fort checks. Almost all mini-bosses in the palace died to PK, as well as Siroket and some others (not dragon, unfortunately, can't beat his 44+ fort save)

Sorcerer has a nice advantage with metamagic. That has always been one of its main advantages.

You get rods that negate that completely.

Bound Object

I'm not sure, but I think i managed to do 'remove used spell - replace it with new one - use bound object - new spell is available without rest'.

I do know about this but when my minister has only +2 dex base, he still won't have a chance at beating a DC 30 event at rank one.

Dex? You get the negro for the master spy, he can have up to +9.

 

[Shadenuat]

I'm playing as illusionist, it's okay considering that most fey have low will/fort checks

All Fey have high Will saves, it's in their nature. Their natural bonus also adds their CHA to saves. And PK is Mind Affecting, so many enemies should be immune to it completely.

Illusionist is better than those two though, yeah. Color Spray is great, Mirror Image and then there is Shadow Casting, I wanted to play one myself but picked Enchanter because I wanted to suffer.

 

[Sykar]

There is nothing "great" about those spells you mentioned, like, at all. Not only they do not work as good as you might think, but enemies often do not use concealment that is affected by them.

I mean, hell, True Seeing does not even reveal invisible creatures at all. It just cancels your miss chance from Combat Invis, more or less.

Let us say you are right and I overestimate their usefulness due to bad implementation by the devs. That still does not change the fact that Divination has by far the best specialization powers. Also you do not have to fill all extra slots with True Strike, this an utterly ridiculous and blatantly false notion. All other school specialization features like those of Conjuration or Evocation are nice at start but become minor advantage or outright irrelevant later. Divination stays strong and only gets better. I guess Enchantment has decent powers and the stat buff of Transmutation is kinda nice.

 

[Shadenuat]

Also you do not have to fill all extra slots with True Strike, this an utterly ridiculous and blatantly false notion

As Thassilonian Wizard you get 2 extra slots, but you must put 1 spell into them which then copies itself so you can cast it twice.

If you don't have anything of worth to put into there, you are losing 2 spells per day (which is why I don't like Enchanter).

And since Divination in this game has very little spells, that is why I said you'll mostly fill slots with heightened true strike or some shiet as Specialist as well.

Let us just compare Diviner with familiar against Necromancer with bonded object endgame
Diviner's 9th level spells: hurr I memorize thing that doesn't make me flat footed and 1 more spell
Necromancer: lol I memorize 4 Wail of Banshee. (2 specialization, 1 base 1 bonded object)

Let us say you are right and I overestimate their usefulness due to bad implementation by the devs

I am always talking about how it works in the game, from my experience of playing the game and testing it in game. How it works in PnP doesn't apply here.

 

[Sykar]

Also you do not have to fill all extra slots with True Strike, this an utterly ridiculous and blatantly false notion

As Thassilonian Wizard you get 2 extra slots, but you must put 1 spell into them which then copies itself so you can cast it twice.

If you don't have anything of worth to put into there, you are losing 2 spells per day.
And since Divination in this game has very little spells, that is why I said you'll mostly fill slots with heightened true strike or some shiet.

Let us say you are right and I overestimate their usefulness due to bad implementation by the devs

I am always talking about how it works in the game, from my experience of playing the game and testing it in game. How it works in PnP doesn't apply here.

What is your problem with Thassalonian, no one gives a crap about it. It does not even offer Divination as a specialist school so this is a complete non-argument, this is about specializations which are part of the core class and are not a completely different archetype like Thassalonian. I also doubt you really played all Wizard specializations extensively on top of all other classes. I consider Thassalonian a waste because you lose school specialization powers and you are not only limited but outright barred from casting spells from your oppossition schools but worse even you cannot select those and most Thassalonian choices are bad because you often lose strong or vital schools like Conjuration, Transmutation, Illusion and/or Evocation.

 

[Shadenuat]

Well make it 1 spell, whatever.

Thassilonian because they also have all the abilities and an extra spell in this game.

What is your problem with Thassalonian, no one gives a crap about it. It does not even offer Divination as a specialist school

Oh,

well actually then it's pretty shit for Diviners then you are right, so they can't even get more spells than other schools. So playing a Diviner is even worse than I thought.

 

[Israfael]

All Fey have high Will saves, it's in their nature. Their natural bonus also adds their CHA to saves. And PK is Mind Affecting, so many enemies should be immune to it completely.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I PK'ed the leader of the Curse v6 invasion, but who knows what really happened.

 

[Sykar]

Well make it 1 spell, whatever.

Thassilonian because they also have all the abilities and an extra spell in this game.

What is your problem with Thassalonian, no one gives a crap about it. It does not even offer Divination as a specialist school

Oh,

well actually then it's pretty shit for Diviners then you are right, so they can't even get more spells than other schools. So playing a Diviner is even worse than I thought.

What
The
Fuck

Thassalonian does not get school specialization special abilities according to the ingame description of that archetype. They are also fixed in what schools are opposite which are often devastatingly badly chosen and unlike normal opposite schools you are completely barred from using your opposite schools whereas core class specialization merely requires you using two slots instead of one which is the reason why Universalist is so lackluster.

Are you sure you have even played Wizard?

 

[ArchAngel]

Sorcerer has a nice advantage with metamagic. That has always been one of its main advantages.

You get rods that negate that completely.

Not really. Those are not free and take a lot of micromanagement. Also I often forget to turn them off after using them on one spell and then waste their uses on unwanted spells :D
Sorcerer gets rods + superior metamagic. Also metamagic lets you cast spells you really like in multiple spell levels. I took Empower and Extend with my Sorcerer and often use it to cast spells I need at different spell levels.

In what way is Sorcerer who has to waste full rounds on metamagic spells always having an advantage over Wizard who does not suffer such a disadvantage?

It is a small penalty for ability to cast as many metamagic spells as needed. With Sorcerer you need to rest rarely and can push through dungeons and fight with little to no rest (like how I did Armag tomb with 0 resting).

 

[ArchAngel]

Well make it 1 spell, whatever.

Thassilonian because they also have all the abilities and an extra spell in this game.

What is your problem with Thassalonian, no one gives a crap about it. It does not even offer Divination as a specialist school

Oh,

well actually then it's pretty shit for Diviners then you are right, so they can't even get more spells than other schools. So playing a Diviner is even worse than I thought.

What
The
Fuck

Thassalonian does not get school specialization special abilities according to the ingame description of that archetype. They are also fixed in what schools are opposite which are often devastatingly badly chosen and unlike normal opposite schools you are completely barred from using your opposite schools whereas core class specialization merely requires you using two slots instead of one which is the reason why Universalist is so lackluster.

Are you sure you have even played Wizard?

I have a Necro Thessalonian and he got some Necro themed abilities in addition to 2 specialized slots.

 

[Shadenuat]

What
The
Fuck

Thassalonian does not get school specialization special abilities according to the ingame description of that archetype.

Are you sure you have even played Wizard?

dunno lah

how does that look to u?

I also doubt you really played all Wizard specializations extensively on top of all other classes

Not all of themz.

I did not try Diviner ( ), Abjurer & Illusionist. Have full playthrough with Evoker, 50% with Enchanter, Octavia is Transmuter, and played endgame with Conjurer and Necromancer.

They are also fixed in what schools are opposite which are often devastatingly badly chosen

You have a party for that, and if you know what spells are good or bad, you can make it work.