Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Yosharian]

You could, but Icy Prison is a staple of the build, there is no fire version of it. Going for Draconic bloodline instead of Arcane will cost you 2 DC, but boost your damage dice a bit.

Once you get Rod of Flaming Vengeance, all your nuke damage will be fire anyway regardless of spell, but overall you will definitely be losing DC every time you deviate from the selections made in the build.

Which is perfectly fine if you're playing on a lower difficulty, or are willing to sacrifice DC for flavor. The choice is yours.

Perhaps you could go for some kind of 'fire + ice' dual element theme, if it suited you.

 

[Sobenewbie]

Thanks for the explanation, what I know about how feats etc. work and which are powerful or not is limited. I really don't want to water down your build too much though. I notice a lot of the builds I find use Aasimar for the racial bonus. How important is that? I know they have a heratage path other races don't, is that a huge loss if you play another race in a build, in general I mean?

 

[Yosharian]

Race is mostly irrelevant for a DC caster, Gnome has a slight advantage because they get +1 DC to Weird

 

[Desiderius]

Race is mostly irrelevant for a DC caster, Gnome has a slight advantage because they get +1 DC to Weird

Elf gets Spell Pen… for the price of a Feat that you could spend on Spell Pen.

Gnome bonus is to all Illusion spells and there are some good ones midgame, not just Weird.

 

[KainenMorden]

I bought the game on sale from steam, reading through this thread, wow it really seems more complicated than any dnd crpg I've ever played.

I thought about playing a Sylvan sorc or a wizard but read some comments that it might be more straightforward and a better addition to the party to play a melee tank build possibly a sword saint. I've been looking at yosharians kensei build on steam.

Any recommendations on a straightforward melee/tank build for an unmodded game on normal or challenging difficulty?

 

[Cryomancer]

build for an unmodded game on normal or challenging difficulty?

Don't play challenging if you are unfamiliar with pf1e rules.

I completed the game with pure RP build in unfair, but would't recommend it for you.

 

[KainenMorden]

build for an unmodded game on normal or challenging difficulty?

Don't play challenging if you are unfamiliar with pf1e rules.

I completed the game with pure RP build in unfair, but would't recommend it for you.

Ok, then I will just play normal for the first run, I was reading that pf1e tried to balance single classed characters vs multi classed and that kingmaker's normal difficulty can be completed by many builds that are single classed.

 

[Desiderius]

build for an unmodded game on normal or challenging difficulty?

Don't play challenging if you are unfamiliar with pf1e rules.

I completed the game with pure RP build in unfair, but would't recommend it for you.

Ok, then I will just play normal for the first run, I was reading that pf1e tried to balance single classed characters vs multi classed and that kingmaker's normal difficulty can be completed by many builds that are single classed.

I play Unfair single-classed principally. There are a lot of abilities that scale/unlock on a class level basis. You can adjust difficulty whenever you like and difficulty curve is highest near beginning before you have most of your abilities so starting on Normal is fine.

Single-class Sylvan Sorc is a solid option for first playthrough since pets are good and help manage encumbrance. Bard effectively has double action econ (sing and cast/fight at same time) so good idea to keep Bard in party and also single-class. From there other companions are solid and you can mix and match depending on quests since companions get EXP even when not part of group.

 

[Cryomancer]

Other amazing single class is druid.

This is what Creeping doom can do in unfair. Sadly there are no druid companion. So you must play as one or create an merc.

 

[Desiderius]

Other amazing single class is druid.

This is what Creeping doom can do in unfair. Sadly there are no druid companion. So you must play as one or create an merc.

Amiri makes a decent Ranger with a Barb level or two. I did Barb1/Defender of the True World with her and it was pretty good, but the WIS was an issue.

Harrim can be an OK Druid since his Touch of Chaos ability doesn’t need class levels.

Best Druid is Val TSS1/Feyspeaker since that one is CHR-based and she can still tank fine with Feyspeaker adding Mirror Image and Displacement along with full pet. I liked Displacer Beast Smilo.

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

I'm not sure a level 7 spell is relevant to which classes are better, because of how late it comes.

Jaethal and Tristian should make decent druids also.

 

[scytheavatar]

I'm not sure a level 7 spell is relevant to which classes are better, because of how late it comes.

Jaethal and Tristian should make decent druids also.

Druids have access to Spike Growth and Spike Stones, which can make a lot of battles easy mode. Also access to Entangle, one of the best spells in this game, although Sylvan Sorcerer has access to it too.

 

[Cael]

I bought the game on sale from steam, reading through this thread, wow it really seems more complicated than any dnd crpg I've ever played.

I thought about playing a Sylvan sorc or a wizard but read some comments that it might be more straightforward and a better addition to the party to play a melee tank build possibly a sword saint. I've been looking at yosharians kensei build on steam.

Any recommendations on a straightforward melee/tank build for an unmodded game on normal or challenging difficulty?

Animal companions are all you need to win the game. Sylvan Sorc for magic backup or Cleric/Sacred Huntmaster for Archery. A party with 5 animal companions will breeze through the game.

 

[KainenMorden]

I started the game playing on normal with a human Sylvan sorc, min maxed for 18 Dex, 20 Cha, greater spell focus conjuration, spell focus evocation with a smilodon. I put points in use magic device, persuasion and mobility.

I took mage armor and grease.

I lvld the bard, barbarian, tower shield fighter, dwarf cleric in their respective classes.

So, should I multi class the barb to druid or hire a druid mercenary? I've just been saving money for now.

I could not beat the worg at old sycamore without party members getting killed. The worg and wolves reflex save vs grease fairly consistently, tough to try to aim the grease spell without them bypassing it or without making my party fall down also.

I didn't buff the smilodon with anything but mage armor yet, I figure it's not worth it to spend gold on scrolls/potions just to beat this fight right now.

All the other fights have been pretty straightforward so far. I've only been playing rtwp.

I appreciate everyone's input. I'm actually enjoying the game quite a bit despite the "women warriors" that are in my party.

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

I lvld the bard, barbarian, tower shield fighter, dwarf cleric in their respective classes.

You could have picked up mercs at level one instead, but it's fine.

I like giving the barb levels in Huntmaster. If you go with Druid, do a respec with the merc lady so you'll only be one level behind.

I could not beat the worg at old sycamore without party members getting killed. The worg and wolves reflex save vs grease fairly consistently, tough to try to aim the grease spell without them bypassing it or without making my party fall down also.

You don't have to kill everything the first time you meet it. I always make at least two trips to the Old Sycamore, and kill the wolf at the very end of the second trip.

Definitely don't go to the rat caves nearby until chapter two, you'll get your shit pushed in by the assassins and bomber.

I didn't buff the smilodon with anything but mage armor yet, I figure it's not worth it to spend gold on scrolls/potions just to beat this fight right now.

Level one scrolls are cheap as shit, plus you will end up with a bunch of potions just by playing through the game.

 

[Sarathiour]

So, should I multi class the barb to druid or hire a druid mercenary? I've just been saving money for now.

I don't think you need a druid, especially if you're a sylvan sorc yourself.
It's been some times since I played kingmaker, I think I my build for amiri was either 7/13 or 9/11 barb/two-handed fighter, though it was hardly optimal. Keeping her as a full barb is also perfectly viable. If it's your first time going trough pathfinder rule, I would advise against going too crazy with the build, you have to understand that it's mostly about what you want and what you don't need in the base class, and about the opportunity cost, ie when do you unlock your key feat or ability.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

KainenMorden I recommend Color Spray. I used both Grease and Colorspray to get through that fight. The fight at Sycamore that annoyed me more was Baron Will o'Wisp....with Sorc levels who can cast shield. That was dirty, Owlcat.

 

[KainenMorden]

I'm thinking of just keeping my companions single classed to keep things simpler on this run.

I got to the caves, basically my tactic on harder enemies is hit them with grease and hope the smilodon makes it's saves and doesnt fall down as well. Part of it is aiming the spell correctly but im finding that somewhat difficult. It is hectic playing rtwp but fun, I just have to get used to it and the camera, often there's enemies off screen that I don't realize are there until they hit my party with spells.

What are some good spells to take at lvl 3? I was thinking of shield or enlarge person being helpful as well as bulls strength/cats grace.

Also not sure what feats would be best after greater spell focus evocation.

Meta magic wise, it seems many builders just take heighten on Sylvan sorc. I see this build being a buffer/summoner/controller vs blasting. Not sure if taking a ranged touch attack feat is worth it though I do have high Dex.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

KainenMorden Sorcerer is tricky because once a spell is selected, you've got it forever. Both of those are solid choices, but enlarge is better. Your caster will almost never have to defend themselves due to the weak AI. Save Shield for your party Alchemist, as they will be able to cast it on others. Heighten is the only good metamagic to take in PFKM, because they have metamagic rods absolutely everywhere. Worth every coin, but they make metamagic feats suboptimal. Sorc is very feat starved, but a neat thing to do is get Dazzling Display. It gives them something useful and unlimited to do that will conserve spells while taking advantage of their high CHA. For meta reasons, Owlcat house-ruled Blind Fight into being very useful later. Spell Penetration (+Greater) also necessary. Shake It Off (teamwork feat) is an excellent choice for all characters. Finally, Spell Specialization is a great choice because it grows with you. Put it on a spell like Scorching/Hellfire Ray to eek out another ray early. It will also help you overcome SR.

 

[Desiderius]

I'm not sure a level 7 spell is relevant to which classes are better, because of how late it comes.

Jaethal and Tristian should make decent druids also.

Jae has (much) stronger options (including base Inquisitor which scales like crazy). Tristian would have three dead Cleric levels.

 

[Desiderius]

So, should I multi class the barb to druid or hire a druid mercenary? I've just been saving money for now.

I don't think you need a druid, especially if you're a sylvan sorc yourself.
It's been some times since I played kingmaker, I think I my build for amiri was either 7/13 or 9/11 barb/two-handed fighter, though it was hardly optimal. Keeping her as a full barb is also perfectly viable. If it's your first time going trough pathfinder rule, I would advise against going too crazy with the build, you have to understand that it's mostly about what you want and what you don't need in the base class, and about the opportunity cost, ie when do you unlock your key feat or ability.

Full Barb is deceptively strong with how the Stances and Totems scale by class level.

Best thing for first run is making Amiri a Barb1/Freebooter since using Freebooter’s Bane holds her back a turn to let Val get aggro then she can Charge in. Combat Style Two-handed gets her the Cleave Feats on time. Make sure to use Freebooter’s Bond before each fight to give everyone in melee +2 to hit.

I’ve died more to my own Grease than about anything else. I know people like Heighten but I think you’re better off (and will have more fun) using the higher level spells as you unlock them and the lower level stuff for buffs. You’ve always got infinite use Demoralize to soften up bosses for your spells and keep them from killing your dudes as fast.

Other thing to look for as a caster is being able to attack weak saves as you discovered against the Wargs. Slow attacks Will and is enemies only. Sonic spells attack Fort and often come with disabling effects.

Archon’s Aura debuffs AoE attack, AC and Saves so is another thing that helps vs Wargs. Harrim/Tristian get it at lvl 5. If you give Val Dazzling Display she can have a similar effect.

Intimidate is a skill check for you not a save for them so easier to buff.

 

[Haplo]

Also once you reach level 2 spells, Glitterdust is amazing (aoe Will save or be Blind - which is a very, very good form of CC, which massively helps both defensively - enemies got 50% miss chance, cannot target allies at range AND offensively - enemies are flat-footed - therefore sitting ducks, very easy to hit).

 

[Sarathiour]

KainenMorden I recommend Color Spray. I used both Grease and Colorspray to get through that fight. The fight at Sycamore that annoyed me more was Baron Will o'Wisp....with Sorc levels who can cast shield. That was dirty, Owlcat.

Assuming you're not playing with the hardest difficulty setting, potion of resistance to electricity and wand of true strike should do most of the job here.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

KainenMorden I recommend Color Spray. I used both Grease and Colorspray to get through that fight. The fight at Sycamore that annoyed me more was Baron Will o'Wisp....with Sorc levels who can cast shield. That was dirty, Owlcat.

Assuming you're not playing with the hardest difficulty setting, potion of resistance to electricity and wand of true strike should do most of the job here.

I did have resist energy memorized. I put that on Valerie. Regongar's class feature electrical resistance carried the day though. I did make liberal use of the True Strike wand. What made it harder was having only 1 remove fear memorized. I was reasonably prepared despite it being a gut punch. I still had to reload that one the fist time I think.

 

[Cael]

I started the game playing on normal with a human Sylvan sorc, min maxed for 18 Dex, 20 Cha, greater spell focus conjuration, spell focus evocation with a smilodon. I put points in use magic device, persuasion and mobility.

I took mage armor and grease.

I lvld the bard, barbarian, tower shield fighter, dwarf cleric in their respective classes.

So, should I multi class the barb to druid or hire a druid mercenary? I've just been saving money for now.

I could not beat the worg at old sycamore without party members getting killed. The worg and wolves reflex save vs grease fairly consistently, tough to try to aim the grease spell without them bypassing it or without making my party fall down also.

I didn't buff the smilodon with anything but mage armor yet, I figure it's not worth it to spend gold on scrolls/potions just to beat this fight right now.

All the other fights have been pretty straightforward so far. I've only been playing rtwp.

I appreciate everyone's input. I'm actually enjoying the game quite a bit despite the "women warriors" that are in my party.

I find Amiri is best as a Eldritch Scion/Dragon Disciple or whatever that dragon lineage thing that gives bonus to AC and stats. Sure, she won't be able to cast spells without items, but the boost to her Strength and AC makes her able to beat the tar out of anything that moves, particularly if you equip her for AC with a shield and the highest +bonus 1-handed weapon you can find. Good old fashioned 1st Ed beatdown.

Valerie is best as a Ranger with a bear companion and specialising in scimitar and tower shield.

Harrim is good as a pure cleric if you need the healing. Otherwise, I'd put him as a druid for the animal companion. Get the Elk. It is the most underrated animal companion. That powerful charge is insane at higher levels, and can easily turn a tough battle into a cakewalk if you get the first strike with it.