Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Sarathiour]

Is it possible to build a Fighter around multiple Combat Maneuvers?

It's not like there is a lot of them in the first case. Bull rush is more like a leftover of P&P, you don't to resort to such thing to make the AI walk into your aoe.
Disarm and sunder armor tend to be too situational in kingmaker, there is very few situation in the game when a single humanoid that is not a caster is threat. I guess it could have some use in Pitax, but it's probably already the easiest chapter of the game.
Trip is quite good, I build a slayer relying on it in varnhold's lot. Just be warned that there quite a few creature highly resist to it.
Never used dirty trick, I could see it being used, through echolocation was still very bugged last time I played the game, so idk for the actual version.

 

[Yosharian]

A few questions, if anyone mind answering:

Is it possible to build a Fighter around multiple Combat Maneuvers? Is it worth it? Straightforward as a Fighter might seems, I have never been able to build a satisfying one; except for Aldori. On another note, is a Flamewarden just a bad, gimmicky class? I tried turning Harrim into one because I thought about the idea of having him detonate upon death quite amusing, but I regret it considerably. All class features seem to be quite worthless (the weapon buff takes too long to apply, doesn't last enough, the spell selection seems kinda weak, and so on). I am open to the idea of me just be doing things the wrong way.

Ehhhh not really, they are alright but not usually as good as just killing your opponent instead

 

[Sarathiour]

I think that's why greater trip is considered so highly, whatever being tripped is probably ending up very dead from all the AoO

 

[Bloodeyes]

I can't beat the spawn of Rovagug. My party is level 15, playing on hard difficulty. We can hit him, but he just doesn't take enough damage and he keeps dispelling our death ward. Does he have weaknesses that I'm missing or do I just need to come back at higher level?

I was thinking I could try coming back with more casters (I had a mostly melee party fighting him). Maybe try stacking some damage per round spells then hit him with hellfire ray a few times to soften him up... but I really doubt that will make the difference. I thought my party was pretty good, we've crushed everything else in the game so far with little effort, but I only managed to get about 1/4 at most of his health bar before game over.

Ideas? Here are the builds I have, if that helps:

Spoiler

Lematte - Inquisitor, sanctified slayer archetype (Main character)

1. Toughness + Power attack

3. Furious focus + (Teamwork feat) Precise strike

5. Weapon focus – Rapier

6. (Teamwork feat) Outflank

7. Cornugon smash

8. (Slayer talent) Style feat – Dazzling display

9. Shatter defences + (Teamwork feat) Back to back

11. Improved critical – Rapier

12. (Teamwork feat) Allied spellcaster

13. Spell focus – Enchantment

15. Greater spell focus – Enchantment + (Teamwork feat) Shake it off

16. (Slayer talent) Combat trick – Dreadful carnage

17. Accomplished sneak attacker + (Slayer talent) Intimidating prowess



Amiri - Barbarian, invulnerable rager archetype

1. Toughness + Exotic weapon proficiency – Bastard sword

2. (Rage power) Reckless stance

3. Power attack

4. (Rage power) Quick reflexes

5. Furious focus

6. (Rage power) Swift foot

7. Outflank

8. (Rage power) Increased damage reduction

9. Improved critical – Bastard sword

10. (Rage power) Increased damage reduction

11. Vital strike

12. (Rage power) Increased damage reduction

13. Devastating strike

14. (Rage power) Unrestrained rage

15. Raging brutality

16. (Rage power) Swift foot

17. Hammer the gap

Valerie - Standard fighter

1. Toughness + Exotic weapon proficiency – Bastard sword + (FB) Combat reflexes

2. (FB) Shield focus

3. Weapon focus – Bastard sword

4. (FB)Advanced armour training – Heavy armour specialization

5. Power attack

6. (FB) Outflank

7. Weapon finesse

8. (FB)Improved critical – Bastard sword

9. Advanced weapon training – Fighter’s finesse + (Advanced weapon training) Trained grace

10. (FB) Dazzling display

11. Cornugon smash

12. (FB) Shatter defences

13. Intimidating prowess + (Advanced weapon training) Dazzling intimidation

14. (FB) Dreadful carnage

15. Greater shield focus

16. (FB) Amour focus – Heavy armour focus

17. Greater weapon focus – Bastard sword + (Advanced weapon training) Trained initiative

Harrim - Cleric

1. Heavy armour proficiency

3. Selective channel

5. Power attack

7. Toughness

9. Outflank

11. Improved critical – Flail

13. Channel smite

15. Spell focus – Necromancy

17. Greater spell focus – Necromancy

Linzi - Bard

1. Precise shot

3. Spell focus – Enchantment

5. Deadly aim

6. Martial performance – Light crossbow

7. Point blank shot

9. Clustered shots

11. Improved critical – Light crossbow

13. Greater spell focus – Enchantment

15. Discordant voice

17. Dodge

Jubilost - Investigator, empiricist archetype

1. Weapon finesse

3. Weapon focus – Rapier + (Talent) Infusion

5. Fencing grace – Rapier + (Talent) Quick study

7. Piranha strike + (Talent) Mutagen

9. Outflank + (Talent) Combat inspiration

11. Improved critical + (Talent) Amazing inspiration

13. Toughness + (Talent) Expanded inspiration

15. Combat reflexes + (Talent) Tenacious inspiration

17. Critical focus + (Talent) Blinding strike

Jaethal - Slayer, Deliverer archetype

1. Toughness

3. Weapon focus – Scythe

4. (Slayer talent) Style feat – Power attack

5. Furious focus

6. (Slayer talent) (Style feat) Shatter defences

7. Cornugon smash

8.(Slayer talent) Intimidating prowess

9. Outflank

11. Combat reflexes

12. (Slayer talent) Reaping stalker

13. Vital strike

14. (slayer talent) Opportunist

15. Devastating strike

16. (Slayer talent) Dreadful carnage

17. Accomplished sneak attacker

Tristian - LG Ecclesitheirge 14, Traditional monk 1



Octavia - Arcane trickster (Generalist wizard + Swashbuckler to get into the class)

1. (Half elf bonus) Skill focus – Trickery + Precise shot + (Wizard bonus) Spell focus - Evocation

2. (Rogue)

3. (Wizard) Accomplished sneak attacker

5. (Arcane trickster) Greater spell focus – Evocation

7. Spell focus - Transmutation

9. Greater spell focus - Transmutation

11. Spell penetration

13. Greater spell penetration

15. Metamagic – Empower spell

16. (Wizard bonus) Metamagic – Maximize spell

17. Weapon focus – Ray



Regongar - Eldritch scion

1. Toughness

3. Power attack + (Magus arcana ) Arcane accuracy

5. Weapon focus – Scimitar + (Bonus feat) Combat casting

6. (Magus arcana) Enduring blade

7. Outflank

9. Metamagic – Empower spell + (Magus arcana) Empowered magic

11. Improved critical – Scimitar (Bonus feat) Spontaneous metafocus – Shocking grasp

12. (Magus arcana) Maximized magic

13. Combat reflexes

15. Metamagic – Maximize spell + (Magus arcana) Bane blade

17. Spontaneous metafocus – Vampiric touch + (Bonus feat) Greater weapon focus – Scimitar

Nok – Nok - Knife master

1. Toughness

2. (Talent) Combat trick – Martial weapons proficiency

3. Two weapon fighting + (Finesse training – Kukri)

4. (Talent) Weapon focus – Kukri

5. Double slice

6. (Talent) Canny observer

7. Piranha strike

8. (Talent) Fast stealth

9. Outflank

10. (Talent) Opportunist

11. Combat reflexes

12. (Talent) Double debilitation

13. Improved critical – Kukri

14. (Talent) Crippling strike

15. Hammer the gap

16. (Talent) Improved evasion

17. Critical focus

Ekundayo - Ranger

1. Point blank shot + Precise shot

2. (Style feat) Rapid shot

3. Weapon focus – Long bow

5. Boon companion

6. (Style feat) Manyshot

7. Clustered shots

9. Deadly aim

10. (Style feat) Improved critical – Long bow

11. Vital strike

13. Bullseye shot

14. (Style feat) Improved precise shot

15. Devastating strike

17. Hammer the gap

“Dog”

1. Dodge

3. Weapon focus – Bite

5. Power attack

7. Outflank

9. Combat reflexes

11. Improved critical – Bite

13. Toughness

Edit: Yeah tried again with a different party. I can get his health bar down to a bit under half and then we lose our death ward and start going down. I've tried the fight a bunch on times with the same result. This is a hell of a difficulty spike! I thought I was pretty good at this game but I actually suck.

 

[razvedchiki]

you need to boing him hard and quick, a grenadier jubilost with holy fast bombs could help you.

 

[Bloodeyes]

you need to boing him hard and quick, a grenadier jubilost with holy fast bombs could help you.

Yeah I guess that is the obvious option. I took Jubilost out of Alchemist because he was too powerful with fast bombs and stealing everyone's thunder. Every enemy was trivialized by his force bomb spam. His current class is weaker and more utility focused.

Putting him back is kind of like admitting defeat. Still, I must admit I'm at a loss. It's probably that or just come back later I think. First enemy I've had to walk away from this run. I'll resist putting Jubilost back in the dress and try again at level 17. If I can't win I guess I'll respec him. Already sold a lot of good alchemist stuff so I guess I'd have to buy it back.

 

[razvedchiki]

i wanted also to try investigators, but they dont bring anything new to the table. exept the highest perception skill scores.

 

[tky]

It's not like there is a lot of them in the first case. Bull rush is more like a leftover of P&P, you don't to resort to such thing to make the AI walk into your aoe.
Disarm and sunder armor tend to be too situational in kingmaker, there is very few situation in the game when a single humanoid that is not a caster is threat. I guess it could have some use in Pitax, but it's probably already the easiest chapter of the game.
Trip is quite good, I build a slayer relying on it in varnhold's lot. Just be warned that there quite a few creature highly resist to it.
Never used dirty trick, I could see it being used, through echolocation was still very bugged last time I played the game, so idk for the actual version.

I feared as much. My main problem with Fighters is that they are too 'fire-and-forget' for my taste. They might be strong, but the lack of things to do gets boring real quick. So having a larger library of maneuvers would help mitigate that, but o' well...
Thanks for the tips, though.

Ehhhh not really, they are alright but not usually as good as just killing your opponent instead

One of the things I hapen to dislike about Kingmaker. Too much focus on unit deletion. Makes combat a bit too repetitive.

I think that's why greater trip is considered so highly, whatever being tripped is probably ending up very dead from all the AoO

Trip is fine, but I think a Inquisitor would do better than a fighter in that regard because of all the extra teamwork feats (plus you get some spells and tricks to boot). Never built a Spawn Slayer either, but I think they could be better too.

Anyway, all of this is kinda moot for me now since I can't play anymore because my gaming notebook broke. I'm now relegated to a lower end machine. That said, thanks again for the responses.

 

[Haplo]

Dominant Trip tactics is trough some specialized weapons and particularly through Cloak of the Winter Wolf that trips when using a Bite attack. Or having a pet dog/wolf do the tripping. Aspect of the winter Wolf spell on Ranger's Druids is usable too.
Regular Trip feat as a Standard action rather sucks when you compare the opportunity cost of skipping a full attack sequence (can't trade iterative attacks for trips in vanilla game).

An Inquisitors tricks will hardly compensate for the lost BAB.

 

[Sarathiour]

My approach was more to answer if it's viable rather than optimal.

Regular trip is certainly not the best thing ever, but it will work reliably enough to clear the game with it. Sure is a lo better than disarm that's way too niche to anything else than a wasted feat.

 

[Desiderius]

Dominant Trip tactics is trough some specialized weapons and particularly through Cloak of the Winter Wolf that trips when using a Bite attack. Or having a pet dog/wolf do the tripping. Aspect of the winter Wolf spell on Ranger's Druids is usable too.
Regular Trip feat as a Standard action rather sucks when you compare the opportunity cost of skipping a full attack sequence (can't trade iterative attacks for trips in vanilla game).

An Inquisitors tricks will hardly compensate for the lost BAB.

Judgments, Bane Weapon, and Divine Power end up more than compensating but never did really get there on melee Inq. Teamwork Feats are generally undersupported in P:K.

Since all CMs are Standard Action in P:K, Dirty Trick becomes relatively better than in PnP, and Blind is generally a good go to condition. Even Ghosts can be Blinded. DT and Bull Rush (and Touch of Chaos) are decent action economy for tankier builds on Harrim and Val where you’re not giving up much damage while generating AoOs for high damage characters. But you can go Move into position + Standard CM on any character for good value to set up an effective Full Attack on the following turn.

Even got there on a joke Barb/Thug Linzi Disarmer, but that was Ch4/5 only for obvious reasons. And had a good Dirty Trick Diviner in CotW since there you can get INT to CMB.

In general the lack of support for non-Trip CMs is annoying tho, and some key foes (like Ghosts) are Trip Immune, so it’s not like it’s broken.

 

[Desiderius]

 

[Desiderius]

Sensei has full BAB and no Flurry so CMs fit well.





You can't Bull Rush Stag Lord off of the platform (should be able to)



CMs are good against casters, especially ones with high Natural Armor

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

Fauchard Biting Tripper Build

Race: Motherless Tiefling (race is quite important, as that's +1 Bite attack - which can translate to trip and multiple extra attacks)
Alignment: Lawful for Monk. Preferably lawful good for easier late game defense wise (+5 Dodge is pretty huge!), but you can get some good use of bite damage & attack boosts from Neutral or Evil robes also.
Stats:
Str 18 (+4)
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 16
Cha 7 (+1)

Class split: 12 Vivisectionist / 1 Monk / 1 Sword Saint (Fauchard): That's quite important, sort of foundation of the build. Then I went with Archeologist Bard 2 / Dragon Disciple 4. This offered me the 3rd bite attack, made my char significantly more tanky with Uncanny Dodge, +3 DD Natural Armor, Mirror Image; +4 DD Str allowed me to reach a nice, round number of 50 Str, got 2 bonus feats: Opportunist and Blind Fight (theoretically not needed, but wanted to be on the safe side).

• Is 12 vivsectionist levels that important, compared to stopping at 2 or 4?
• Shouldn't the DD levels come much sooner? That is a free bite with no strings attached.
• Is INT 13 truly needed, vs wearing items that boost INT?
• How would you feel about alignment shenanigans to get a bite from the barbarian rage power?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

What do you guys do with Tristian? I tried him out, he seemed utterly worthless other than as a healbot. Does he get better later on if you stick to his main class?

I decided to try to make him a mystic theurge. There's a sorcerer archetype that uses wisdom instead of charisma, and his wisdom is decent enough. I'm hoping to give his so many spells he could throw them around all day without running out.

Mystic Theurge is a great way to go for Tristian. I got very little use out of his spells above Tier 6. As I see it, the only major losses are stopped progression in channeling and Touch of Good. I found those abilities to be very helpful.

 

[Desiderius]

Once you get Frightful Tristian fights well with a Reach Weapon, even only on AoOs, and you want him there for the Autoshaken and Archon’s Aura. Anything that delays getting to Frightful is a bad idea.

You get half the usual benefit of MT already through his Domain spells and companion quest ability. If you’re not using high level Cleric/Wiz spells read your Spellbook better. They’re the main benefit of fast spell progression classes.

Leviathan’s Gift helps his Domain spells hit harder.

 

[Desiderius]

Fauchard Biting Tripper Build

Race: Motherless Tiefling (race is quite important, as that's +1 Bite attack - which can translate to trip and multiple extra attacks)
Alignment: Lawful for Monk. Preferably lawful good for easier late game defense wise (+5 Dodge is pretty huge!), but you can get some good use of bite damage & attack boosts from Neutral or Evil robes also.
Stats:
Str 18 (+4)
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 16
Cha 7 (+1)

Class split: 12 Vivisectionist / 1 Monk / 1 Sword Saint (Fauchard): That's quite important, sort of foundation of the build. Then I went with Archeologist Bard 2 / Dragon Disciple 4. This offered me the 3rd bite attack, made my char significantly more tanky with Uncanny Dodge, +3 DD Natural Armor, Mirror Image; +4 DD Str allowed me to reach a nice, round number of 50 Str, got 2 bonus feats: Opportunist and Blind Fight (theoretically not needed, but wanted to be on the safe side).

• Is 12 vivsectionist levels that important, compared to stopping at 2 or 4?
• Shouldn't the DD levels come much sooner? That is a free bite with no strings attached.
• Is INT 13 truly needed, vs wearing items that boost INT?
• How would you feel about alignment shenanigans to get a bite from the barbarian rage power?

Mutagen gets bigger at 12 and Advanced Rogue Talents are one of main benefits of class. Doesn’t really need DD at all. Mutagen gets bigger again at 16 and gets you access to sixth level spells (the good ones).

 

[Desiderius]

Get his STR to 10 then Frighful gets you to 16 (same as Amiri). Burn one Feat on Fauchard and own with Serpent’s Prince. He’s still a 3/4 class with access to Divine Power, Eaglesoul, and Righteous Might before you hit Frightful.

He can slay.

 

[Haplo]

What do you guys do with Tristian? I tried him out, he seemed utterly worthless other than as a healbot. Does he get better later on if you stick to his main class?

I decided to try to make him a mystic theurge. There's a sorcerer archetype that uses wisdom instead of charisma, and his wisdom is decent enough. I'm hoping to give his so many spells he could throw them around all day without running out.

Mystic Theurge is a great way to go for Tristian. I got very little use out of his spells above Tier 6. As I see it, the only major losses are stopped progression in channeling and Touch of Good. I found those abilities to be very helpful.

Stormbolts and Mass Heal were the real highlights for me (the latter in encounters with Ghastly Guardians). And Frightful, yep.

 

[Haplo]

Fauchard Biting Tripper Build

Race: Motherless Tiefling (race is quite important, as that's +1 Bite attack - which can translate to trip and multiple extra attacks)
Alignment: Lawful for Monk. Preferably lawful good for easier late game defense wise (+5 Dodge is pretty huge!), but you can get some good use of bite damage & attack boosts from Neutral or Evil robes also.
Stats:
Str 18 (+4)
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 16
Cha 7 (+1)

Class split: 12 Vivisectionist / 1 Monk / 1 Sword Saint (Fauchard): That's quite important, sort of foundation of the build. Then I went with Archeologist Bard 2 / Dragon Disciple 4. This offered me the 3rd bite attack, made my char significantly more tanky with Uncanny Dodge, +3 DD Natural Armor, Mirror Image; +4 DD Str allowed me to reach a nice, round number of 50 Str, got 2 bonus feats: Opportunist and Blind Fight (theoretically not needed, but wanted to be on the safe side).

• Is 12 vivsectionist levels that important, compared to stopping at 2 or 4?
• Shouldn't the DD levels come much sooner? That is a free bite with no strings attached.
• Is INT 13 truly needed, vs wearing items that boost INT?
• How would you feel about alignment shenanigans to get a bite from the barbarian rage power?

I'd say Vivi levels are important, yeah. Sneak Attacks, lots of extra discoveries/feats, mutagen, crippling strike (very useful to help land trips), opportunist.
Well, you could go for DD sooner, I guess.
Int gets debuffed by the Mutagen AFAIR. And was needed for Combat Expertise and Trips.
As for working a Barbarian in there? Wasn't my choice and Rage duration would be pretty short. But if you feel like it, then go ahead.

 

[Desiderius]

I did Barb2/ViviX on that Faterender Half-Orc monster way back when. Bite from Rage Power, Uncanny Dodge, extra 10 ft Speed, full BAB, and Martial proficiency (needed to turn on Orc Double Axe) made it a pretty good deal.

 

[Yosharian]

What do you guys do with Tristian? I tried him out, he seemed utterly worthless other than as a healbot. Does he get better later on if you stick to his main class?

I decided to try to make him a mystic theurge. There's a sorcerer archetype that uses wisdom instead of charisma, and his wisdom is decent enough. I'm hoping to give his so many spells he could throw them around all day without running out.

Mystic Theurge is a great way to go for Tristian. I got very little use out of his spells above Tier 6. As I see it, the only major losses are stopped progression in channeling and Touch of Good. I found those abilities to be very helpful.

Stormbolts and Mass Heal were the real highlights for me (the latter in encounters with Ghastly Guardians). And Frightful, yep.

My Tristian build absolutely wrecks with any Fire spell, especially now that I got the ability that automatically makes everything deal maximum and 1.5x damage for free

 

[razvedchiki]

anyone tried the swasbuckler class from the derring do mod? when they crit or kill in an an encounter they get back part of their ability pool called panachea.
they can get their cha to ac, parry/riposte, double their presice att bonus and eventually avoid death using panachea.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

anyone tried the swasbuckler class from the derring do mod? when they crit or kill in an an encounter they get back part of their ability pool called panachea.
they can get their cha to ac, parry/riposte, double their presice att bonus and eventually avoid death using panachea.

mod hasnt been updated forever iirc, i think even back when I still play KM some people say the mod is bugged?

 

[Desiderius]

anyone tried the swasbuckler class from the derring do mod? when they crit or kill in an an encounter they get back part of their ability pool called panachea.
they can get their cha to ac, parry/riposte, double their presice att bonus and eventually avoid death using panachea.

Fun class but some of the ability toggles are wonky (and it needs them). Never been updated.

Might work turn-based?