Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Bigg Boss]

Do they not transfer over?

 

[Haplo]

What do you mean? Transfer? Between what?
If you're asking about transfer of characters between Kingmaker and Wrath - then no.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Mine looks more like that ranged build so far. I won't go full Necromancy because yeah not much to work with. I found that Inquisitor with the scythe but she is different enough so I am good to go. Thanks a lot brother! Glad I skipped persuasion too because your assessment seems to be accurate. Glad to hear there are lots of companions. That is what I loved about BG 1 over 2. So far the only thing I don't love about the game is the portrait art style. I do have it on TB since the past few games have been RTwP, so I want a little slower pace without so much auto pause.

Oh and I have no DLC.

Beneath the Stolen Lands is worth getting the DLC for. It's a roguelike mode and it's better than the story. There's a portrait pack called heroes of the stolen lands you should get. It's on nexus mods.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Inquisitor kinda sucks, TBH.
If you really want to play one, I'd recommend Wrath of the Righteous. There you can at least mount a pet as Sacred Huntsmaster and the mystic path powers would strengthen and complement the character.

Not really. Mine is awesome. He kills something every round with his rapier and has more clickable powerups than he knows what to do with. With all his crits he's shitting all over my barbarian for damage per round and his judgements and WIS make his saves at least as good as my cleric and paladin. Not to mention the fact he casts lifesaving spells spontaneously, so he he's your guy when someone has insanity and needs a heal to cure their insanity. Judgement piercing means he'd be able to cast offensive spells if I'd specced him that way. Judgements mean you can fill any couple of roles with your inquisitor and be good at what you do. They excel in smalll parties like in the DLC. An inquisitor can be good at anything so if your one sucks it's because you built them wrong.

 

[Haplo]

Mine looks more like that ranged build so far. I won't go full Necromancy because yeah not much to work with. I found that Inquisitor with the scythe but she is different enough so I am good to go. Thanks a lot brother! Glad I skipped persuasion too because your assessment seems to be accurate. Glad to hear there are lots of companions. That is what I loved about BG 1 over 2. So far the only thing I don't love about the game is the portrait art style. I do have it on TB since the past few games have been RTwP, so I want a little slower pace without so much auto pause.

Oh and I have no DLC.

Beneath the Stolen Lands is worth getting the DLC for. It's a roguelike mode and it's better than the story. There's a portrait pack called heroes of the stolen lands you should get. It's on nexus mods.

I suppose, if you don't actually like the game, you may fiddle with an alternative mode a bit.
Supposedly also nice to test builds.

I would get the tiefling DLC, though. Great race, cute comapnions, pretty different extra class.
I think Varnhold's Lot maybe introduced some extras for some classes. Fighter Advanced Weapon Training options, Feral Wings for Vivisectionists and such.

And make sure to grab the small free Arcane DLC - it added a few cool spells!

 

[Haplo]

Inquisitor kinda sucks, TBH.
If you really want to play one, I'd recommend Wrath of the Righteous. There you can at least mount a pet as Sacred Huntsmaster and the mystic path powers would strengthen and complement the character.

Not really. Mine is awesome. He kills something every round with his rapier and has more clickable powerups than he knows what to do with. With all his crits he's shitting all over my barbarian for damage per round and his judgements and WIS make his saves at least as good as my cleric and paladin. Not to mention the fact he casts lifesaving spells spontaneously, so he he's your guy when someone has insanity and needs a heal to cure their insanity. Judgement piercing means he'd be able to cast offensive spells if I'd specced him that way. Judgements mean you can fill any couple of roles with your inquisitor and be good at what you do. They excel in smalll parties like in the DLC. An inquisitor can be good at anything so if your one sucks it's because you built them wrong.

Rapier?
And damage? Really?

Okay, I rest my case.

 

[Grunker]

I beat Kingmaker on Unfair with main char Inqusitor (the summoner archetype) and it was piss easy

 

[Bloodeyes]

Inquisitor kinda sucks, TBH.
If you really want to play one, I'd recommend Wrath of the Righteous. There you can at least mount a pet as Sacred Huntsmaster and the mystic path powers would strengthen and complement the character.

Not really. Mine is awesome. He kills something every round with his rapier and has more clickable powerups than he knows what to do with. With all his crits he's shitting all over my barbarian for damage per round and his judgements and WIS make his saves at least as good as my cleric and paladin. Not to mention the fact he casts lifesaving spells spontaneously, so he he's your guy when someone has insanity and needs a heal to cure their insanity. Judgement piercing means he'd be able to cast offensive spells if I'd specced him that way. Judgements mean you can fill any couple of roles with your inquisitor and be good at what you do. They excel in smalll parties like in the DLC. An inquisitor can be good at anything so if your one sucks it's because you built them wrong.

Rapier?
And damage? Really?

Okay, I rest my case.

Yes, he has a flaming rapier +2 and the barbarian has an oversized bastard sword +3. Both have Magic weapon - Greater so both are +4 weapons at their level. And yes he's out damaging him. Base damage isn't all it's cracked up to be. He has a better critical threat range. 15 - 20 vs 17 - 20. Both are using locate weakness (share spells feat, modded) and both have blade tutor (again, modded) through share spells. He's out damaging him. Power attack + improved critical + critical focus and he's killing something every round. 22 base STR + bull's strength. Nothing fancy. He's getting the job done doing 100+ damage per crit and 40 - 50 ish damage on a normal hit. Average of 2 crits per round. Everyone is hasted. Normal stuff. Is this the most damage possible? No. The sword saint out damages him. The alchemist out damages her. But who cares? Everything still explodes when he attacks it and more damage doesn't matter when something is already dead. His role in the party is to cast locate weakness on everyone and heal. Killing everything is just an unexpected bonus.

 

[razvedchiki]

sanctified slayer inquisitor is very good in wrath, gets bane/studied target from slayer and 1 cleric domain. made lann one.

 

[Caifas]

Hey Guys
first post around here...
Quick question... I started kingmaker after playing it pnp and i'm loving it... I'm playing the trip build from Haplo , but i'm having a hard time deciding on the compations.
Can you give me a hand on selecting build that would go well with the tripper?

 

[Bloodeyes]

Hey Guys
first post around here...
Quick question... I started kingmaker after playing it pnp and i'm loving it... I'm playing the trip build from Haplo , but i'm having a hard time deciding on the compations.
Can you give me a hand on selecting build that would go well with the tripper?

I haven't seen Haplo's build but if you're tripping lots of people you might want to give your front liners DEX belts and the combat reflexes feat for extra attacks of opportunity. Then if you give them that Outflank + improved critical (not directly related to trips, just good for all front liners) is a great option as well, for any group of front liners. You could also There is a rogue companion that you meet in the mid - game who does very well with outflank + combat reflexes and the advanced rogue talent "opportunist." That would go well with trips.

There is also an inquisitor companion. She gets the "solo tactics" class feature and there is a teamwork feat called "tandem trip" I think. Never taken it, but that should work for you. Coordinated maneuvers could work too, but this is only a guess. Never really look into that feat. But yeah, all of the scythes you find in the mid game have the "trip" trait. So having Jaethal do combat maneuver trip isn't a bad idea.

There's a dude who gets an animal companion with tripping bite. There's a cloak that gives anyone with a bite a tripping bite that does frost damage. The barbarian can get a bite as a rage power. It doesn't hit that often, but with a good amulet of mighty fists it hits more often. There's also an alchemist who gets force bombs which knock everything flat. So if you wanted to be super cheap and just have everyone get knocked flat and eat lots of attacks of opportunity standing back up you could do something with all this component parts I'm sure.

You could have the alchemist, dog, your main and the barb tripping everyone and at least a couple with reach weapons (or enlarged) doing attacks of opportunity on people who stand back up. That's pretty cheap but it would work.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

So classes with full BAB are better off dual wielding?

Like Haplo mentioned, you'll want to consider the reach of the weapon. While I think stacking various bonuses slightly favors TWF on a single target, the amount of AoO you get from a reach weapon is incredible. AoO are incredibly easy to come by. Vital Striking with a big 2H weapon then churning out AoO is very effective.

 

[Haplo]

True. Although some reach can also be achieved with Enlarge / Frightful Aspect / Legendary Proportions buffs.
I generally prefer weapons that hit heavier then reach weapons with these buffs.

 

[Sykar]

I beat Kingmaker on Unfair with main char Inqusitor (the summoner archetype) and it was piss easy

... no shit.

 

[Grunker]

I beat Kingmaker on Unfair with main char Inqusitor (the summoner archetype) and it was piss easy

... no shit.

Post-level 10 or 12 I really think just about any other of their subclasses would have been better tbh.

 

[Bloodeyes]

So I'd like to follow up on my earlier statements about my Inquisitor "out damaging" my barbarian with his rapier. I feel ashamed for spreading misinformation. I'll put it down to confirmation bias as he was doing a lot of damage but he is not my biggest damage dealer at all. He was just critting a lot and I got carried away. My party has a cleric (Evangelist), a standard inquisitor, a sword saint, a grenadier an invulnerable rager (reckless stance) and a paladin.

Out of the lot the sword saint can do the most damage in a round (uses a robe and metamagic rods to spellstrike empowered, maximized vampiric touch and empowered, maximized hellfire ray), followed by the rager (vital strikes with a large bastard sword for standard action, hammer the gap for a full round action).

The overall highest damage dealer would be the grenadier, because he can cast quickened bomber's eye so he can full round attack from anywhere in the room. So he doesn't need to run between targets making every round a full attack. Grand cognatogen makes his damage really nice. He's hitting on 2s with all of his attacks too, with 18 base DEX and no mutagen needed. Just a +6 DEX belt. I just took his +5 to ranged gloves and gear's rule off to see if this persisted without them on or if he was gear dependent. It did and he isn't. A +6 DEX belt and his buffs is plenty. Strong character.

The sword saint and the cleric are the lowest damage dealers in the party. That's why I feel so stupid for saying what I said. I leapt to his defense out of affection for the character. That being said, he has filled the role I created him for wonderfully, has been a lot of fun to play and has been no slouch in combat.

Here is a pretty representative moment in combat against some golems on dungeon level 40 (hard difficulty), screenshotted just now.

Lematte the Inquisitor attacks a golem with his rapier. The enlarged cleric (who has 14 base STR btw) is standing nearby with his greatsword. His true judgement hits. Outflank also triggers and the cleric attacks. They both have improved critical (and the locate weakness buff thanks to share spells) so Algernon the Wise also crits. The golem, realizing it just died twice, explodes. Everyone saves the death throes. This was a fun moment, but it's not cherry picked. Those damage numbers on crits are consistent because locate weakness maxes crit damage every time. So one crit looks like another. These are my two utility casters, the "weakest" people on my team in combat. I still think they're pretty good. All are single class builds. Strong feeling, fun to play party. I would recommend the inquisitor, despite feeling the need to retract my statements about damage. It's more than acceptable, but nothing compared to the 240ish the sword saint is critting with her duelling sword (arcane enforcer, also crits on 15 - 20) or the 90 something to 100+ damage Corpse Shitter is doing on a regular attack vital striking with his large bastard sword.

Edit:

So people realize I'm not BSing you about vital strike, here's a screen of their next fight. This is Corpse Shitter (rager) damaging like normal. Not a crit or anything special. +5 large bastard sword and vital strike. It would be more if I enlarged him but I like being able to put him where I need the damage to happen more than just doing the most damage possible.

Edit 2: Here is Marigold the sword saint attacking a golem twice. Bare in mind this isn't a good representation of her damage potential as golems are immune to her strongest abilities (empowered maximized hellfire ray and vampiric touch spellstrike with the same metagagics). They are also immune to the elemental damage applied by her arcane weapon enhancement. So this is the least she can crit for. She still teleported the entire party up on it with dimension door mass (no need to run up, so full attack to open the combat). Then she killed the fucker in two hits.

Yes they were both crits and that is lucky. But more than one in four of her attacks is a crit (automatically confirmed by a class feature) so this is everyday shit for Marigold.

Here is Linnorn the grenadier taking care of business in the fight after that one. The sneak attacks are only 1d6, from a neck item I found. Most is just bomb damage. Can't really say why but curse of the feeble body bombs feel the most impactful of his bomb options He has acid which I never use, force which is good and the cursed bomb variants which I got because they can lower fort saves for better coup de grace and seem to hit the hardest. Maybe because he's damaging their CON directly as well as their HP? I think that may very well be. Or it's just more confirmation bias.

I won't upload screens of the paladin killing stuff too. You get it. He's a weapon neutral dude who uses any two hander. He vital strikes with a bardiche at the moment. Similar damage output to the barb I guess. Maybe a bit less or maybe not? Can't tell. Solid class. Good utility and strong.

 

[Haplo]

About 100 damage sounds awfully low for Vital Strike. Is it the regular version still?
It seems to me that you really need to use those size increasing spells (preferably Legendary Proportions later on) and also Lead Blades when available/feasible (there's a wand with it, so at least use it for special occasions). I mean that'd be an average of 99 damage BEFORE all modifers (such as Str, enchantment, specializations, bonus damage enchantments, sneaks)

My Sword Saint was pumping considerably more - also without crits and limited use buffs (Perfect Strike).

 

[Bloodeyes]

My Sword Saint was pumping considerably more - also without crits and limited use buffs (Perfect Strike).

There's a bit going on in that image. Some of it I understand some I don't. It looks like you've opted to go two handed STR based with a sword saint. Seeing the damage you're putting out I can see why. It kind of shits on what I'm getting. Getting 180 temporary HP from hitting something is nice, but I do really like dealing damage consistently and so much is immune. Where are the sneak attacks coming from? Do you have rogue levels or is it an item? Or just sense vitals?

As for my humble party, no my barbarian isn't enlarged. I have access to legendary proportions but I prefer to not use it. I enlarge my cleric with frightful aspect because his AC means he shouldn't stand on the front line (well that was the idea, he actually does fine on the front line I've just gotten used to him being the big guy) and a reach weapon isn't an option for him. He needs to use his greatsword because he runs his AB of his 24 base WIS rather than his 14 base STR thanks to Guided Hand but that only works with the favored weapon. His role is to buff the party with inspire courage (Evangelist gets bardsong, not sure how familiar you are with the Call of the Wild mod, apologies if that's obvious to you) and he uses his barbarian rage with reckless stance from rage subdomain to get his damage up a bit in melee because most things in the deep dungeons are either literally or functionally immune to offensive spells.

I keep everyone normal sized because they can kill everything in one round anyway and big people struggle with doorways, especially in turn-based mode. As fun as it is killing an enemy twice, once is sufficient. That and the deep dungeons get really intense with summoners. That golem level I screenshotted was a holiday. The last four or so levels were nothing but Hamadryads and Wild Hunt Monarchs. A Wild Hunt monarch summons 6 or so regular wild hunts and a Hamadryad summons a similar amount of smilodons. The summons aren't too much of a threat if your saves are on point but you need to kill them fast or it gets really hard to move. Five or six enemies on turn one becomes 30 or 36 on turn two and the room is literally full. So big dudes struggle to get around. Then they end up having to waste turns killing the trash mobs to get through. Algernon often has to resort to casting spells (ew!) because he can't reach. I'll put it this way - which is the better weapon for home defense? A 12 gauge shotgun or a howitzer? Both will kill a burglar but the shotgun is easier to aim and fire in your apartment.

I'd love to have lead blades on people though. I've thought about it but didn't really realize how much of a difference it could make. What's your preferred method of getting it one people? Any class in the modded game can get share spells (can cast personal buffs on any party member who has the "bonded mind" teamwork feat if they have a familiar or animal companion ( and any class can get an animal companion at the cost of 3 feats). But that spell is only in the Ranger list right? I never really wanted to play a ranger. I was thinking of putting a slayer in, instead of the inquisitor next time. I guess I could go ranger instead... I dunno. Does any other class get lead blades?

As far as my Vital strike goes, Call of the Wild merges all vital strike feats into one, so there are only two feats to take. Vital strike and devastating strike. Vital strike adds the extra damage dice automatically as you level and devastating strike adds a couple of points per dice added that are multiplied on a critical hit. The other feats have been removed from the game.

Here are the changes made in CoTW that relate to vital strike, from the Nexus page:

In addition mod also makes some changes to make existing content closer to pnp:

• Vital Strike can be used with ranged weapons

Original game bug fixes:

• Vital Strike now takes standard action and extra damage dice are no longer multiplied on critical hits

• fixed bug with vital strike damage boost triggering on cleaving finish (or any other attack executed within initial vital strike context),

Optional balance fixes:

• • 3 Vital Strike feats are merged into 1, damage dice automatically increases once your bab reaches 11 and 16,

This is why I have both vital strike and hammer the gap. Vital strike for when I attack from a distance (have to walk up, only get standard action to attack) and hammer the gap to add a bit to a full round attack. If I'm right in front of something there is no point using vital strike because it will do less damage than a full attack.

Perfect Strike)

I actually forgot about that one lol. I turned it off in the early game because it was draining my arcane pool too fast. I should try turning it back on.

 

[Yosharian]

Hammer the gap is pretty awful

 

[Bloodeyes]

Here's a more complete explanation of my buffing. I don't use minimal buffs. I use every buff I have a free spell slot for. Shit gets real in the deep dungeons. All your party members make a ton of will and fortitude saves every turn. So many saves you can't read them all. Prismatic spray washes over you constantly. Wild gaze is always in the air. We had items that summoned barbarians for a bit. They were ok. But when we used them against the fey they went insane immediately and started attacking us. Sold those stupid helmets immediately. Even our pet has a +6 WIS hat on. We buff against everything and very little gets through. Sometimes someone gets turned into a dog. Remove curse and move on. Sometimes (rarely) confusion. Heal.

Here's our minute/level "walking around buffs" I put on the party before entering the dungeon

From the alchemist: (has infusion)
- Grand Cognatogen (Intelligence and wisdom)
- Shield
- Blur
- Echolocation
- True seeing (I prefer echolocation because we get blinded a lot by blinding beauty but there isn't enough for everyone so the cleric, leopard and alchemist get true seeing)
- Freedom of movement (for the 3 party members not immune to paralysis from items or class features)
- Stoneskin communal

From the cleric (Who doesn't have share spells)
- Archon's aura (on himself)
- Deadly juggernaut (on himself)
- Death ward (on half the party)
- Fickle winds (on the party)
- Protection from energy communal (2 castings, kept in reserve for if it's an energy damage themed level or we just need it)

From the inquisitor (has share spells)
- Locate weakness (his reason for existing, besides healing, curing and triggering outflank)
- Expeditious retreat (not really needed. Just makes it quicker to run around looking for secret doors after you clear the level)

From the magus (has share spells)
- Arcane weapon enhancement
- Mirror image (on everyone except the leopard. She only has 6 level 2 spell slots. Next time I'll give her higher INT).
- Heroism greater (half the party, needs some slots for hellfire ray)
- Magic weapon, greater (on the cleric who has a lowly +4 instead of a +5 like everyone else)
- Blade tutor (on everyone who melees. So everyone except the alchemist. Yes even the leopard).

From the barbarian
- False life, greater (on himself from magic bracers)

From the paladin (no share spells)
- Veil of heaven (personal)
- Deadly juggernaut (personal)
- Weapon of awe (party)
- Death ward (on the rest who missed it before)
- Heroism, greater (from an item. Casts on the other half of the party so everyone has it)
- Delay poison communal

So that gets us into the dungeon. Then we walk up to a door and cast our round/level buffs.
Alchemist:
- Haste
- Bomber's eye
- Targeted bomb admixture
- Displacement
- Transformation (sometimes)
- Displacement (sometimes, if someone lost too many mirror images in the last room)

Cleric
- Divine favour (self)

Inquisitor
- Divine power (on himself, the magus and the barb)

Paladin
- Divine favour

Then we take a deep breath. I make sure my head is in the right place to do this. Then I have the cleric sing inspire courage but not rage yet. That's a free action and he can do it if he needs to. I have the inquisitor activate his bane weapon because it frees up a swift action for turn 1. Then he activates his domain power to turn the entire party invisible and we go in.

If there's a trap the alchemist disables it then comes back to the party. Then the magus teleports the party at the nearest enemy and the fight starts. This can either be overkill or barely enough, depending on what the room is like.

 

[Yosharian]

So is vital strike tbh

 

[Yosharian]

Oh you're using some weird homebrew thing, alright I guess it's not so bad as an opportunity feat then

 

[Yosharian]

You should definitely get Cleaving Finish, it's pretty good

 

[Yosharian]

I get Cleaving Finish fairly early on my heavy hitter and he fucks people up hard with it, it's not super reliable but when it does trigger it just ends encounters

I know what COTW is, I just don't care

 

[Haplo]

My Sword Saint was pumping considerably more - also without crits and limited use buffs (Perfect Strike).

There's a bit going on in that image. Some of it I understand some I don't. It looks like you've opted to go two handed STR based with a sword saint. Seeing the damage you're putting out I can see why. It kind of shits on what I'm getting. Getting 180 temporary HP from hitting something is nice, but I do really like dealing damage consistently and so much is immune. Where are the sneak attacks coming from? Do you have rogue levels or is it an item? Or just sense vitals?

As for my humble party, no my barbarian isn't enlarged. I have access to legendary proportions but I prefer to not use it. I enlarge my cleric with frightful aspect because his AC means he shouldn't stand on the front line (well that was the idea, he actually does fine on the front line I've just gotten used to him being the big guy) and a reach weapon isn't an option for him. He needs to use his greatsword because he runs his AB of his 24 base WIS rather than his 14 base STR thanks to Guided Hand but that only works with the favored weapon. His role is to buff the party with inspire courage (Evangelist gets bardsong, not sure how familiar you are with the Call of the Wild mod, apologies if that's obvious to you) and he uses his barbarian rage with reckless stance from rage subdomain to get his damage up a bit in melee because most things in the deep dungeons are either literally or functionally immune to offensive spells.

I keep everyone normal sized because they can kill everything in one round anyway and big people struggle with doorways, especially in turn-based mode. As fun as it is killing an enemy twice, once is sufficient. That and the deep dungeons get really intense with summoners. That golem level I screenshotted was a holiday. The last four or so levels were nothing but Hamadryads and Wild Hunt Monarchs. A Wild Hunt monarch summons 6 or so regular wild hunts and a Hamadryad summons a similar amount of smilodons. The summons aren't too much of a threat if your saves are on point but you need to kill them fast or it gets really hard to move. Five or six enemies on turn one becomes 30 or 36 on turn two and the room is literally full. So big dudes struggle to get around. Then they end up having to waste turns killing the trash mobs to get through. Algernon often has to resort to casting spells (ew!) because he can't reach. I'll put it this way - which is the better weapon for home defense? A 12 gauge shotgun or a howitzer? Both will kill a burglar but the shotgun is easier to aim and fire in your apartment.

I'd love to have lead blades on people though. I've thought about it but didn't really realize how much of a difference it could make. What's your preferred method of getting it one people? Any class in the modded game can get share spells (can cast personal buffs on any party member who has the "bonded mind" teamwork feat if they have a familiar or animal companion ( and any class can get an animal companion at the cost of 3 feats). But that spell is only in the Ranger list right? I never really wanted to play a ranger. I was thinking of putting a slayer in, instead of the inquisitor next time. I guess I could go ranger instead... I dunno. Does any other class get lead blades?

The sneak dice come from Sense Vitals - I used Eldritch Arcana mod when playing Kingmaker and picked Spell Blending Arcana (Sense Vitals and Echolocation).

You should really reconsider Enlarge/LP when using Vital Strike.
Regular oversized bastard sword is 2d8 damage. Enlarged 3d8. Legendary Proportioned 4d8. With Lead Blades added it goes to 6d8 (!). This means with GVS and Perfect Strike you get 192 damage before modifiers or crits.

As for Lead Blades, personally for that purpose I've installed Craft Magic Items mod and had Ekun craft LB wands for my main - it was the only purpose of this mod for me, I've used no other functionalities.
However short of using a ranger, the other "vanilla" method I've considered was a dip in Ecclessitheurge cleric of Torag with primary domain Artifice. That'd allow to cast Lead Blades a few times per day. Even better if you have a mod that has Traits/feats that raise Caster Level for specific spell/class.

Of course CotW nerfed/fixed the Vital Strike, so its no longer possible to one-shot dragons and other bosses with it.

Spoiler