KickStarter Mechajammer (formerly Copper Dreams) - cyberpunk RPG from Whalenought Studios

[MadMaxHellfire]

@Dhaze.

he's gone and not coming back :'(

 

[toro]

@Dhaze.

he's gone and not coming back :'(

what happened?

 

[Modron]

what happened?

I mean there's no saying he won't come back but he's been gone 4 months now as you can see from his profile (lest Max has got some insider information).

 

[Tyranicon]

I actually picked this up on someone's recommendation. They told me that with the refracted update, the game is actually quite good. I'm not entirely sure, but I guess we'll see.

EDIT - I am fully aware of the game's reputation and broken state. I just wanted to experience the potential misery on my own.

EDIT - Yep, it's immediately every bit as awful as described in this thread. I am actually impressed.

Is it true that the devs are destitute after how bad the game performed saleswise?

Depends on the nature of their publishing deal and personal finances. Since they're apparently serious about making a third game, and not busy with new dayjobs, I'm assuming they're ok.

Or insane.

One of those.

 

[ArchAngel]

Is it true that the devs are destitute after how bad the game performed saleswise?

I really hope so and that they needed to go to work for Bolt or something. Shit like this should not be rewarded with being able to work in gamedev..

 

[mediocrepoet]

Is it true that the devs are destitute after how bad the game performed saleswise?

I really hope so and that they needed to go to work for Bolt or something. Shit like this should not be rewarded with being able to work in gamedev..

"Rewarded" by ... running their own business and being self employed? That's an interesting viewpoint. Just don't buy anything else they put out and your problem is solved. If people do that, the issue will work itself out if it hasn't already.

 

[grimace]

I actually picked this up on someone's recommendation. They told me that with the refracted update, the game is actually quite good. I'm not entirely sure, but I guess we'll see.

EDIT - I am fully aware of the game's reputation and broken state. I just wanted to experience the potential misery on my own.

EDIT - Yep, it's immediately every bit as awful as described in this thread. I am actually impressed.

Could the art and animations be salvaged to create a Point and Click Adventure Game?

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

I actually picked this up on someone's recommendation. They told me that with the refracted update, the game is actually quite good. I'm not entirely sure, but I guess we'll see.

EDIT - I am fully aware of the game's reputation and broken state. I just wanted to experience the potential misery on my own.

EDIT - Yep, it's immediately every bit as awful as described in this thread. I am actually impressed.

Could the art and animations be salvaged to create a Point and Click Adventure Game?

No it's total shit. It's very confusing and ugly.

 

[gaussgunner]

Is it true that the devs are destitute after how bad the game performed saleswise?

Depends on the nature of their publishing deal and personal finances. Since they're apparently serious about making a third game, and not busy with new dayjobs, I'm assuming they're ok.

Or insane.

One of those.

Supported by Hannah's secret OnlyFans?

 

[Dhaze]

Holy hell, they're working on a follow-up to Serpents In The Staglands now? I don't know whether to commend them for possessing what must be the quintessence of perseverance, or to berate at them for, you know... not fixing their fucking game that people bought.

@Dhaze.

he's gone and not coming back :'(

what happened?

Not gone gone; has come back (to thunderous applause, and a general sentiment of relief mixed equal parts with elation?). Life happened, and my health wasn't so good for a while, and I was quite busy, and such and forth.

Is the music really that good?

Personal taste and all that, of course, but in my opinion it is truly excellent; I had remarked upon it and commented about it multiple times whilst playing the game. In fact if there is one singular and most damning shame about Mechajammer, it's that such a fantastic work of music found itself attached to such a horrendous mess of pixels and code.

I had no idea who Kevin Balke was, but his work for Mechajammer is faultless. Once in a while a composer manages to perfectly capture—and heighten—the atmosphere of a game, of a world, and that is exactly what happened here. As is Calitana, Balke's soundtrack is gravid with the wafting of cold toxic fumes, the smell of acid rain flowing down mutant-inhabited sewers, and grime so incrusted into the very stuff of the city it can never be scrubbed off; and evokes a distinct feeling of a far gone humanity busying itself overly with surreptitious, deleterious activities.

In terms of sci-fi, techno, noir, post-event, cyberpunk-esque works of music, I'd rank Balke all the way up there with Alan Howart, Michiel Van den Bos, Jon Everist, Frank Klepacki, Mark Morgan, Kenichiro Fukui and their kin.

The following tracks are my favorite: Mayflower Initiative; Rat Maze; Smoke; Calitana's Pulse; Beware Of Trespassing; Digital Trippin'; Horrors Nearby.

Did any codexian like this game?

The idea of the game maybe, but it was so broken and unplayable at release i spent 4 hours on it only. Think only dhaze was brave enough to go on , possibly the only guy on the planet.

After finishing the game, I drifted a bit onto the official Discord to see if I could get answered a few questions, and there saw a handful of other people had managed to finish the game. So I'm not the only one, but we sure as hell aren't many; I'd wager a few dozens, maybe?

For reference, this was the game 5.5 years before release:



Would be curious what you think about that video Dhaze.

Concepts from that video made it into the actual release, like the wounds, the travel time for projectiles, and the whole 'simultaneous-but-not-simultaneous' turn system. But in the actual game it's just a big mess.

Without even trying, you character's damage quickly gets so high that, save for Copperheads, you can waste anything and anyone in one or two actions, so wounds are irrelevant whenas enemies are concerned; and for you, wounds are pretty much inconsequential since you can patch yourself up with ease. Also, I don't remember there being any kind of system in place to try and prevent being wounded in the first place (say, with specific armor pieces). So it's a thing that is... there, but changes nothing or almost nothing.

Also, there's no indication of time elapsing, no indication of who is gonna act when, and combined with minimal or outright poor animations, it makes is so that their 'simultaneous-but-not-simultaneous' turn system ends up quite chaotic, confusing, and at times annoying. Thus, like the wounds system, it's there but doesn't bring to the table what it could potentially have.

I actually picked this up on someone's recommendation. They told me that with the refracted update, the game is actually quite good. I'm not entirely sure, but I guess we'll see.

EDIT - I am fully aware of the game's reputation and broken state. I just wanted to experience the potential misery on my own.

EDIT - Yep, it's immediately every bit as awful as described in this thread. I am actually impressed.

Want to know the best part? The more you play, the more broken it gets.

Could the art and animations be salvaged to create a Point and Click Adventure Game?

No it's total shit. It's very confusing and ugly.

I'll play devil's advocate for a second. I talked about it before, but at some point in the game Mechajammer ceases to be anything resembling an RPG as the term is generally understood, instead becoming a detective game. It's bizarre, in a way. Combat and character stats and other things instrinsically linked to the concept of an RPG discard themselves of even the pretense of relevance; instead you find yourself searching for this person, or this item, or this place, or this clue, or a way to solve this puzzle, those eventually leading you to another place with another person or clue or puzzle.

And that part—that weird, unexpected, unpromoted, un-talked about—part of the game was genuinely entertaining, and well-thought on the developers' part. And I say that as someone who sucks immensely at anything puzzle-related... So despite the art style being very confusing and quite ugly and muddy and busy, there's something in Mechajammer that would have made for a good other kind of game, possibly a Point And Click.

I think about it a little bit like BioShock: Infinite. Overall, Infinite is not a good shooter; and given the story, given that Booker DeWitt was rather needful of discretion for his mission, it doesn't even make sense that it's shooter. It's the wrong kind of game for that game, to put it that way. Well, it's the same with Mechajammer: it shouldn't have been this kind of game.

I mean there was a whole idea of written language appearing as scrambled if your character wasn't smart or learned enough to read it; yet it doesn't come into play at all despite the heart of the game being about detective work. There is the 'Occult' Virtue, whose description was "The mind's stability in the face of unknown forces," and, if I recall correctly, a few things in the late game mentionned such unknown forces fucking the minds of people with whom it interacted; yet Occult does, I'm given to understand, about fuck-all.
Make it a sort of Point And Click game but with a character sheet, or make it a pure stealth-and-brain kind of game.

I hate thinking about this game.

 

[Cyberarmy]

I hate thinking about this game.

Welcome back you magnificent bastard.

 

[Dhaze]

I hate thinking about this game.

Welcome back you magnificent bastard.

Thanks, mister stranger on the internet, how very warm of you.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

he's back! the messiah is back! all hail the messiah of masochism!

welcome to the shitty health club. i should had died so many times...

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I hate thinking about this game

Play some Yakuza, love games again

 

[Infinitron]

Holy hell, they're working on a follow-up to Serpents In The Staglands now?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...anquet-for-fools-standalone-expansion.107262/

 

[grimace]

there's something in Mechajammer that would have made for a good other kind of game, possibly a Point And Click.

Marketing the game as a tactical with stealth combat RPG was the mistake.

Marketing it as a Disco-Elysium-like adventure detective game with RPG-like elements would have been more accurate?

 

[Dhaze]

Holy hell, they're working on a follow-up to Serpents In The Staglands now?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...anquet-for-fools-standalone-expansion.107262/

Oh ok, so it's been in the workpipe a long time then. And they announced it as being free; I wonder if that'll still be the case when—or if—it releases.

he's back! the messiah is back! all hail the messiah of masochism!

welcome to the shitty health club. i should had died so many times...

Hey Max, hope you're doing good.

I hate thinking about this game

Play some Yakuza, love games again

Oh don't worry, my love for video games hasn't gone anywhere. Lately I've greatly enjoyed Chained Echoes and Age Of Wonders: Planetfall, and I've re-installed the classic Disciples 2.

there's something in Mechajammer that would have made for a good other kind of game, possibly a Point And Click.

Marketing the game as a tactical with stealth combat RPG was the mistake.

Marketing it as a Disco-Elysium-like adventure detective game with RPG-like elements would have been more accurate?

Yeah, that's pretty much what I think, what I would have done had I been responsible for the marketing.

Unfortunately the developers never answered me on Discord, and they don't post here anymore, but I'll forever wonder how it all happened. How did they, as developers, go about creating what is a genuinely interesting series of clues and puzzles absolutely pivotal to the game, only to then completely fail to mention any part of it anywhere in the promotional material? Is it possible they don't realise what they've done? Do they understand that, for the player, the very involved detective work comes completely out of left field?

Please, Jesus, let there one day be a Mechajammer AMA on the Codex.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Hey Max, hope you're doing good.

just glad a light shines back on this wretched den of scum and villainy.

 

[grimace]

Please, Jesus, let there one day be a Mechajammer AMA on the Codex.

Whalenought Mechajammer Post-Mortem at Games Developer Conference would be great.

The indie publisher they partnered with did not assist in play testing and reporting bugs. That was left to players who purchased the game that was not released as early access.

 

[roshan]

Is the music really that good?

Personal taste and all that, of course, but in my opinion it is truly excellent; I had remarked upon it and commented about it multiple times whilst playing the game. In fact if there is one singular and most damning shame about Mechajammer, it's that such a fantastic work of music found itself attached to such a horrendous mess of pixels and code.

I had no idea who Kevin Balke was, but his work for Mechajammer is faultless. Once in a while a composer manages to perfectly capture—and heighten—the atmosphere of a game, of a world, and that is exactly what happened here. As is Calitana, Balke's soundtrack is gravid with the wafting of cold toxic fumes, the smell of acid rain flowing down mutant-inhabited sewers, and grime so incrusted into the very stuff of the city it can never be scrubbed off; and evokes a distinct feeling of a far gone humanity busying itself overly with surreptitious, deleterious activities.

In terms of sci-fi, techno, noir, post-event, cyberpunk-esque works of music, I'd rank Balke all the way up there with Alan Howart, Michiel Van den Bos, Jon Everist, Frank Klepacki, Mark Morgan, Kenichiro Fukui and their kin.

The following tracks are my favorite: Mayflower Initiative; Rat Maze; Smoke; Calitana's Pulse; Beware Of Trespassing; Digital Trippin'; Horrors Nearby.

Balke is an amazing composer. Whenever I think of the music of Serpent in the Staglands it makes me want to play it again. I wish Whalenought would go back to it and flesh out the world a bit more and fix the bugs.

 

[Whalenought_Joe]

Hey chads,

Wanted to jump in for prosperity, I imagine this is the only website that knows about the game. For what it is, we're contractually obligated to not say anything negative against any parties, which doesn't leave a lot to say.

For anyone that was invested and disappointed in how it turned out, I can only say how terribly sorry we both are, we're in that list with you and were (obviously) in no rush to get that game out until we were happy with where it ended up. We might be smooth brained artists, but we had hoped signing with a publisher could ensure we get adequate time for QA feedback implementation.

Production schedule changes outside our control meant we launched the game around when we were originally slated to start a private beta, and we failed to adapt to those new needs. To hit that timeline the entire game's narrative story was cut, the additional ships to find to get off, and a re-write of the script. We were also scheduled to make 7 public demos, and we failed to find enough hours in the day to do it all.

I think the game was always going to be a weird sell, we iterated a lot publicly and weren't confident enough to say no to suggestions and, in hindsight, less helpful feedback over the years. In the end we loved the ideas going into it and how they managed to capture everything we needed for the adventure we wanted to provide, but without the time for ruleset balance, the story with the crew, and a clean launch it was DOA. The publisher has the rights for all releases and post-releases, so we can't update the game without their approval. We deeply regret not having time to implement a back-door so we could continue to update it unofficially without getting into some hazy legal territory.

Our hope at this point is to release a shareware Copper Dreams game realizing the unused concepts during the development of this game we think people also resonated with, in a tighter package with our new 3d things we have going on now. That wouldn't be until next year.

This year we're working on a SitS follow up exploring that world more, we'll have something to share soon. If you've written us off, all good, sometimes these things don't work out.

 

[Abu Antar]

is there any plan to release a post-mortem?

Your game underwent many changes over the years. Visuals, gameplay, and concept. This was pre-publisher. I'd be interested in the though process.

I wish you good luck with the SitS followup. Will it be the one already announced? Will it be free?

 

[Whalenought_Joe]

I don't know how much we'd have to share from that, just finding the right cocktail of gameplay for the original concept of this open world, detective-y, combat thing. A lot of concepts were neat and we're using ideas of them now. It was always a small production and game, we just listened to a lot of feedback without a filter.

Thanks! I don't know if we have announced it, but we're calling it the expansion name from the original kickstarter if that's what you mean. We spent a lot of time dissecting what went well with SitS and what didn't, and there was a lot we wanted to imrpove on the exploration formula, so it's not an exact 'expansion' and will be a separate game, but I'm pretty sure through GOG/Steam we can provide discounts for SitS owners, and right, free for backers. We'd like to give SitS the same treatment down the road if we have a chance.

 

[Tyranicon]

Glad to have you back, did I read that right, you're working on two games?

Our hope at this point is to release a shareware Copper Dreams game realizing the unused concepts during the development of this game we think people also resonated with, in a tighter package with our new 3d things we have going on now. That wouldn't be until next year.

This year we're working on a SitS follow up exploring that world more, we'll have something to share soon. If you've written us off, all good, sometimes these things don't work out.

A legally distinct Copper Dreams, and a SitS followup?

Hats off to you. Game dev is stressful. It's hard to control outcomes, anybody who says otherwise has never tried projects of scope with minimal resources.

Hope you stick around. Also pinging Dhaze as I'm sure he has questions.

 

[Alienman]

The stuff about the publisher sounds interesting. Wish we could get the whole story. But how come they put some much pressure on you, didn't you guys go over the publisher deal before signing up?