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Inactive [LP CYOA] Overlord

ScubaV

Prophet
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
1,022
I needed to gauge the level of butthurt over apparent do-gooding that has developed over the past ten updates, which seemed considerable, and offer an outlet for those who want to jump right into depopulating the continent personally rather than deal in mundane evils like tax evasion and illegal immigration. :M

As far as the established character goes, I suppose this was one of the few ways to justify such a drastic shift.

Ironically, the most butthurt from this update is from the do-gooders over the slim possibility that Erdrick goes grimdark.
 

Grimgravy

Arcane
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Sep 12, 2013
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3,469
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
A - the evils of tax evasion and illegal immigration sound more interesting that plain slaughter.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
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Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
A - the evils of tax evasion and illegal immigration sound more interesting that plain slaughter.
There is only one man who can stop us now.
article-2317145-198D513D000005DC-249_634x760.jpg
Seriously, though. You guys want to go into politics with Erd?
 
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Grimgravy

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Not necessarily. Rampant slaughter is overdone. Anyone can try it and achieve some level of success. Erdrick has always had bigger ideas. Loved the cattle smuggling while fighting the demon lord. That is worth reading about!
 

Nevill

Arcane
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Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Seriously, though. You guys want to go into politics with Erd?
Loved the cattle smuggling while fighting the demon lord.
It still ended with a diplomatic incident, so I guess some amount of involment with the local politics is unavoidable if we want to keep our operations smooth.

Perhaps not Senya's degree of meddling and going full politician, but some amount of it will be necessary if we don't (or can't) force our rules down the throat of several nations here. In fact, we are probably already involved by saving the prince and ruining one of Barzam's plots.

But truth be told, anything is more interesting to me than grinding EXP.
 
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Nevill

Arcane
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Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I have no experience with these things. You'll have to break down to me how it worlks for me to even consider the idea.
 
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Baltika9

Arcane
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Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
The man behind the man, in essence. He doesn't hold a lot of power personally, but everyone who does either belongs to him or owes him big favors. Things don't get done without his say-so.
A good summary of a power broker is this:
DONALD TRUMP,
THROUGH THE AGES.


BY JOHN FLOWERS
- - - -
The ancestry of Donald Trump stretches back to the Ancient World. Listen, as several of Trump’s forebears recount some of the most famous moments in history.

The Death of Julius Caesar
So this is, maybe, a week after the Ides of March. I’m in Rome. I got a new coliseum there. Great coliseum. I build a lot them. Make a lot of money. Very successful.

So I’m in Rome. And Brutus and his cabal ask me to say a few words about Caesar. Really, begging me to say something about him. And Brutus is an honorable guy. So, I’m like, “Sure. Whatever.”

But then right before my speech, Brutus comes up to me — he’s real nervous, Brutus — and he says, “Whatever you do in your speech, don’t blame me for Caesar’s death.”

I think, “That’s odd.” But, whatever. Brutus is an honorable guy.

So I deliver this speech. Great speech. Tremendous speech. It’s about Caesar. He’s dead. Lot of emotions. Really brings down the house. I get rave reviews for the speech. Rave reviews. Everybody loves it.

But then, weeks later, the media is saying I said these things that I never said. Awful things.

I’ll give you an example: The New Rome Times, which is losing money left and right. Unreadable. Total trash. Hates the empire. But the New Rome Times says that I came to praise Caesar, which is totally false.

What I said was — and this is a direct quote — “I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.” Not to praise him. How they get the exact opposite out of that, I don’t know. But that’s the media for you.

The Last Supper
I love Jesus, I do. But the guy can be long-winded. “Blessed are these people, Blessed are those people.” Basically, everybody’s blessed, but he’s gotta read through the whole Roman census before you find that out.

Like this one night, Jesus and his crew are one table away from me. And I’m hearing him go on and on about something. Won’t stop talking about it.

I can’t take it anymore. So I lean over. I say, “Jesus, you make a nice speech and all. Kind of belabor the point; Peter’s falling asleep over here. So let me cut to the chase: Someone’s gonna betray you tonight, and it’s Judas.”

Jesus gives me this look, like I’m the one who’s betrayed him.

I say, “C’mon, Jesus, it’s the worst kept secret in Jerusalem. Guy owes everybody in town money. Suddenly, he’s flashing 30 pieces of silver." I love Jesus, but he’s probably still trying to figure out who killed Abel.

Problem is, Jesus never had a sense for business. Never did. Here’s a guy who can turn water into wine — and I know wine. Bought a vineyard, doing terrible business, I buy it, now it’s making a profit. Yuge, yuge profit. But here’s a guy who can turn water into wine; still pays for it when he goes out.

I’m like, “Jesus, just order water!” Or at least make Judas pay.

I mean, seriously, who finds a mole in his operation, invites the guy out to dinner?

Jesus, that’s who.

The Third Crusade
So, I tell the Knights Templar, "Richard the Lionheart? Please. Should be called Richard the Lazy Bastard. Seriously. He had one thing to do. One thing. Capture Jerusalem. What’s he do? Makes peace with Saladin.”

I ask Saladin about that, too. Sal’s a friend. I say, “Sal, what the hell happened?” He says, “Your guy’s no good. Can’t negotiate. Awful negotiator.”

Never would have happened if I led the Third Crusade. I know negotiators. If they ever invent the printing press, I plan on writing a book on it.

Hell, I know this one guy — awful guy, terrible human being — but he knows how to negotiate. Genghis Khan. Horrible human being. Great negotiator. I bring him in; Jerusalem is taken in two days. Tops.

The American Revolution
I would have people come up to me all the time and say, “Mr. Trump, Mr. Trump, you should lead our troops. You should have lead.” And I should have, because I would have ended the war, Day One.

I would have gone up to King George III, whom I know. I would have said, “Georgie, we’re leaving.”

He’d cry, he’d beg, he’d try to convince us to stay. I’d say, “No, no, no. Here’s the way it works: We leave, you get nothing, that’s the deal” And then I’d turn to the French, and I’d say, “And you … Thanks for the help. Now give us a statue. A woman. But not an ugly one.”

Papers would be signed the next morning.

19th-Century Medical Science
People ask me all the time, because I love women so much. They say, “Mr. Trump, what do we need to do to help women?” Because we have to protect their health, we have to. So I say, “Two words … Wandering. Uteruses.” Because they’re everywhere. Everywhere. Wandering over here, wandering over there. Even mention it and women go into hysterics. If I were in charge, I would bring back the uteruses. I would bring them all back. From China. From Mexico. From Japan. From wherever they wander. “Making Uteruses Great Again”, that would be my motto.

The Titanic
So they have this board of inquiry. They ask me to appear. They beg. Plead. Say I’m the only one who can make sense of this tragedy.

I show up. I don’t know what I can do, but I show up. They ask what I think happened. Everyone is saying, “The ship hit the iceberg, the ship hit the iceberg.” I tell them straight. I say, “No, that’s not what happened." I say, "The iceberg attacked that ship.”

People are stunned. They never heard anyone say this before. They start clapping, start calling my name, they love me. They love how I tell the truth. I’m the only one who tells the truth.

I say, “Look, I know icebergs. Know a lot about them. No one knows more about icebergs than me. No one. Icebergs attacked that ship, because the icebergs are at war with us.”

Makes total sense. But these guys. These guys on this board. Bums. They look at me. They say, “Whaddya mean, ‘attacked’? An iceberg can’t attack a ship.”

I say, “Listen, you idiots." I call them idiots. They’re politicians. I give them money. I call them anything I want. I say, “Listen, you idiots. The icebergs attacked us because they think we’re weak. We’re not weak, but they think we’re weak.”

They look at me. Dumbfounded. I say, "If I were president, I would beat these icebergs.” Because I beat icebergs all the time. All the time. I’m the icebergs’ biggest enemy, and they know this. “I would build a wall. And that wall would keep out the icebergs. And you can believe that, because nobody builds a better wall than me. Nobody.”

By now, people are clapping, hollering, saying I should run for president. I didn’t. Thought about it. Too many interests. Lotta business interests. Make a lot of money. But if I had to run, I can promise you this, I would be the greatest iceberg president of all time. All time.
 

FrankHamilton

Educated
Joined
Oct 18, 2014
Messages
51
A
I don't generally vote in these kinds of threads, but you guys are all a bunch of faggots.

1) I agree, there has been a lot of pussying around these past few updates and we definitely need to start conquering shit as soon as possible. Which we will do because we now have someone who considers us an enemy. But the problem right now is that the only person who's doing shit around here is us and Rin. That will quickly become just us if we pick B. And then guess what! We'll be forced to ally with the prince for even more faggotry or do everything by ourselves. Is that what you wanted? To play a game called "Overlord" where the only one who does shit is us and we have to ally with humans?

2) You know what the whole giving into frenzy thing is gonna be doing in the long run? Limit our choices and make the game stale. Do you guys really think we won't have another chance to to do evil shit? We were torturing people for information a few updates ago. Choices to grimdark will come and go. Let's leave them to our enemy.

3) Rin is really fucking useful. Like it's been mentioned before she is effectively half of our battle strength. In addition to that she's the only one who can speak goblin (the twins can't). In addition addition she's the reason this whole thing started in the first place. You guys don't think she has some more PLOT! going on? Maybe help us unlock more of her father's power?

4) We have no idea what is going on with her. We won't find out much if we kill her. We need to interrogate her properly later.
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,561
Personally I would prefer if we take the "magical domination" route. The fact that Erd has a built-in magic battery encourages the idea of learning as many spells as possible, thereby increasing our versatility and ways to act: from complete destruction to mind-control, summoning armies, scrying and other fun stuff. I also like the setting, it has its charm and I wouldn't mind exploring for a bit to learn about each place's culture and such (before razing it to the ground if necessary, of course).

In any case, in my opinion it would be in our greatest interest to ensure Barzam is consumed by civil war, making it easy to conquer. That prince guy may really be a good guy after all, but I would not take any chances lest we end up trapped inside his rape-dungeon.

The Adventurer's Guild is also a potential threat as well. We should find out a way to reunite all of the heroes, then "accidentally" drop a fully powered Gygadine on them to be sure.
 
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Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
1) I agree, there has been a lot of pussying around these past few updates and we definitely need to start conquering shit as soon as possible. Which we will do because we now have someone who considers us an enemy. But the problem right now is that the only person who's doing shit around here is us and Rin. That will quickly become just us if we pick B. And then guess what! We'll be forced to ally with the prince for even more faggotry or do everything by ourselves. Is that what you wanted? To play a game called "Overlord" where the only one who does shit is us and we have to ally with humans?

2) You know what the whole giving into frenzy thing is gonna be doing in the long run? Limit our choices and make the game stale. Do you guys really think we won't have another chance to to do evil shit? We were torturing people for information a few updates ago. Choices to grimdark will come and go. Let's leave them to our enemy.

3) Rin is really fucking useful. Like it's been mentioned before she is effectively half of our battle strength. In addition to that she's the only one who can speak goblin (the twins can't). In addition addition she's the reason this whole thing started in the first place. You guys don't think she has some more PLOT! going on? Maybe help us unlock more of her father's power?

4) We have no idea what is going on with her. We won't find out much if we kill her. We need to interrogate her properly later.

You make some interesting points, but I am just sick to death of playing heroes and I think that posters like Nevill have a more "mischievous" character in mind rather than one who is truly malicious. Something like this, that Kipeci described:

Being the head of a kinda sorta benevelent-ish dictatorship of diverse peoples we can justify our desire to be an authoritarian overlord with the Codex' urge to be the good sort of bad person and select for our harem the most attractive of the diverse cattle of many regions. I hope to accomplish this by having Erdrick establish that yes, he is a tremendously powerful badass and furthermore has the capacity to back that up by regularly putting his skills to use.

doesn't quite scratch the itch that I'm looking for. I don't want to be a "good" sort of bad person, I'm not looking to be a guy with a bad reputation who is a nice guy once you get to know him (Xu Jing), I want to be a bad person. I like this LP and I love being part of these, but I hope you see where I'm coming from; we've played various heroes in these LP's, but aside from a brief dalliance as Dio in the Epic LP, we haven't had a full-blown villain in a long time.

So what I'm seeing in general is a whole lot of posturing about how we want to be a big, bad Overlord, but not much in the way of following through. There's some "we'll do it later", but I don't buy it. We'll be a somewhat meaner Xu Jing, who like our wuxia hero, loves to stick it to the man (in this case goddesses), who highly values freedom, loves his women and is loyal to them, and ends up taking on the control-obsessed goddesses in the name of FREEDUM. He'll be more cautious than our beloved YOLOTIGER due to his innate laziness, but I kinda imagine that this is roughly where we're going (or at least, where a lot of people want to go at the moment, though of course that could change) based on the outline Kipeci had and the brofists that it received. I can see why some people might be into it, but it's a whole lotta weaksauce villainy for my taste.

As for Rin being useful, well, of course she's useful. If we are sacrificing our allies for power, it wouldn't be any sort of a sacrifice if they were useless and didn't matter to us. A sacrifice, by definition, means losing something you value. Sacrificing something that is useless to you is not a sacrifice. When you cross that invisible moral boundary from which there is no going back (i.e. if we were to give in to our hunger as Ean, allowing Yang Xue to eat Qilin's arm in exchange for martial arts knowledge) you lose part of yourself. That's part of the deal, no going around it. If we were to say, sacrifice our goblin village, it might push us more into "evil", but it's not the same thing, since we (or at least, I) don't particularly give a fuck about the goblins, seeing as our initial greeting was wiping out a few dozen of them by accident with Gigadyne.

Anyways, just writing this out so that you can see where I'm coming from. I'm not doing this for the EVULZ, and my decision isn't grounded on just doing this on a whim. Ultimately, these are preferences, and obviously, the majority of voters would prefer to do things a different way.

What I will say that counts against B, for me, is that it comes off as very abrupt (though of course it's meant to be), and I am not so sure that I like the full-blown personality change. I like our guy just fine, I just wish he were more of a cunt.
 
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treave

Arcane
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Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
I don't want to be a "good" sort of bad person

You really should define the sort of acts you would consider to be villainous though. Betrayal? Murder? Rape? Erdrick has engaged in two out of three, and I suppose I can provide the third if you are that keen. Now, if we're using Dio as an example, then it can only be the defining trait of "I'll step on anyone or do anything to climb to power for power's sake" but as I recall there was an opportunity to pick that background. Perhaps you should have lobbied harder for that motive instead of flopping. :M

I mean, at the moment it sounds like "I don't like the character I voted for anymore, let's spin him around and go in another direction immediately", and that's not even getting into the whole initial rash of angel picks because fallen angels are cool or something and you guys liked the idea of being Lucifer fighting the Heavens in the name of FREEDUM. I can't just redo the character's personality that drastically on a whim, which is why this current choice is being offered in the first place, with all the limitations that it has.

So, yeah, if you want your vision of a villain to be realized, first we need to know what sort of villainous conduct should happen and why it should be done, because even Dio didn't do things just because he was bad. For example, what would Dio do in this situation? He'd likely conceal his true ability and schmooze up to the prince until he had a better grasp of things, and once he was certain of his power, he would strike. And even for him, you guys chose to be second in power rather than taking over the throne when there was the choice. How is that wildly different from how things might possibly go for Erdrick? Except for flavour text, I'd think very little.
 
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Esquilax

Arcane
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Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
You really should define the sort of acts you would consider to be villainous though. Betrayal? Murder? Rape? Erdrick has engaged in two out of three, and I suppose I can provide the third if you are that keen. Now, if we're using Dio as an example, then it can only be the defining trait of "I'll step on anyone or do anything to climb to power for power's sake" but as I recall there was an opportunity to pick that background. Perhaps you should have lobbied harder for that motive instead of flopping. :M

I mean, at the moment it sounds like "I don't like the character I voted for anymore, let's spin him around and go in another direction immediately", and that's not even getting into the whole initial rash of angel picks because fallen angels are cool or something and you guys liked the idea of being Lucifer fighting the Heavens in the name of FREEDUM.

So, yeah, first we need to know what sort of villainous conduct should happen and why it should be done, because even Dio didn't do things just because he was bad.

We haven't raped anybody yet, but those Barzamites better watch out!

But seriously, I kinda wanted a very selfish character who is willing to betray those around him when a better opportunity presents itself, but is probably a touch less ambitious than a guy like Dio. Too gluttonous and satisfied by material pleasures to get pumped up by control and power. In this case, I suppose we would tap into our nature because (a) she's coming after us with bad intentions* and (b) well, a better opportunity (tapping into our nature) has presented itself. We allied with the Demon on a whim because of our own vices, then we allied with Rin out of convenience because it was the best thing available.

If we're talking about the villainous behaviour I'd imagine Erdrick indulging in the most, it's betrayal. The sort that enters into alliances of conveniences, then discards them once they no longer serve his needs or he's bored.

The thing that I'm probably most concerned about is that tapping our nature will change our character for good. That in itself is probably a good reason NOT to vote B.

* Let's ignore the fact that there is probably a perfectly rational reason for why she's angry that we'll probably get in A.
 

treave

Arcane
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11,370
Codex 2012
There is probably a bit of a misunderstanding about this 'accepting your true nature' business.

This is it. You understand now. This is how you will grow stronger. Beating her as you are is too difficult. You need to accept your true nature. Then you will defeat her, and you will know greater strength, so you can be victorious against more powerful foes and ultimately slay even the Goddesses that betrayed you. You should have never trusted a demon after your heart in the first place. Rinnefiela cannot complain if she is injured or killed here. She attacked first, breaking your pact. It is only fair that you show her the consequences.

Unless Erdrick has been lying to himself about preferring the easy life to fighting and gore all this while, which is a bit unlikely, this is not his true nature. This is the true nature of an 'angel', or at least how it manifests for him. There are no seductive voices promising power, just the realization of the truth that if you stop going easy on women and proceed to kill everything before you, you will become stronger.

And you definitely will, Rin is worth at least 10 level-ups and 3 new abilities. :M
 

Kayerts

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
883
A. devour soul after selling out the world for her? come on...

Priorities: Theseus's D > self-defeating friend-murder > Rin > the fate of the world

I've been advocating for more villainy in the course of the thread (blindly trying to provoke a war between human kingdoms with little motivation other than that WAR IS GOD, letting the prince die because international incidents create chaos that we can probably exploit, disregarding the Geneva Convention, etc.); I just think B is the chaotic stupid route, so I'm voting A. To elaborate slightly on that, I'd like to play an evil character whose existence sits like on the earth like a mass of animosity so intense that it deforms the gravity of the world around it, inciting humans in his vicinity's worst traits and dragging them into conflict with each other. I think we've passed up a few opportunities to start down that route, which seems unfortunate, but B seems like randomly indulging in character-warping behavior because we want to warp our character, rather than because the likely results of our actions make sense on their own terms. No one thus far seems seriously concerned about suffering permanent harm before we find a way to deal with Rin's mind control, which seems like it'd be the most compelling reason to choose B.

I do wonder about what we call the Devour Soul route as a general matter. (Not here.) Usually, in Codex CYOAs and elsewhere in games, there's a clear trade-off being made between mechanical rewards from letting the warp overtake you (increased power) and story rewards from resisting said temptations (improved outcomes). This generally comes from authorial desire for magic in fantastic settings to demonstrate perceived metaphysical laws. In this case, the law is that the use of immoral power is fundamentally corrosive to the exerciser, either because it represents a shortcut with long-term consequences (metaphor: steroids) or because it involves partnership with a more powerful, evil force that will find a way to corrupt you (metaphor: altruistic power-seeking giving way to power-mongering power-seeking), or because evil (or mere vice) asserts a prioritization of primitive motivations over complex ones and fundamentally reduces your character's capability to be interesting (metaphors: indulging in anger, drug addiction). You might be wildly successful on mechanical terms, but the rules of the game world still run on slave morality, so you're boned. In all cases, you're left with a character with fewer choices because their actions fundamentally cause them to become less of a character; that is what evil does to you.

I don't think this tension is bad and have enjoyed a lot of games and narratives that include such mechanics, but I don't think they reflect fundamental truths of the universe, at least not in an unqualified fashion. E.g., maybe indulging in anger really does psychologically warp you in unavoidable ways, but perhaps that doesn't result in an inevitable slide into becoming a slave to your own rage if your character also has remarkably developed mental discipline; in that event, maybe it just makes him off-putting to others with more tender sensibilities. I.e., specific downsides of corruption can be offset or mitigated by developing appropriate counter-traits. It'd be cool to see a game where the consequences of conspiring with the forces of darkness were at least somewhat parameterized. Who knows, perhaps we're even playing one now.
 

treave

Arcane
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Codex 2012
I don't think this tension is bad and have enjoyed a lot of games and narratives that include such mechanics, but I don't think they reflect fundamental truths of the universe, at least not in an unqualified fashion. E.g., maybe indulging in anger really does psychologically warp you in unavoidable ways, but perhaps that doesn't result in an inevitable slide into becoming a slave to your own rage if your character also has remarkably developed mental discipline; in that event, maybe it just makes him off-putting to others with more tender sensibilities. I.e., specific downsides of corruption can be offset or mitigated by developing appropriate counter-traits. It'd be cool to see a game where the consequences of conspiring with the forces of darkness were at least somewhat parameterized. Who knows, perhaps we're even playing one now.

This is not some sort of anger, or force of darkness, or corruption, or even what I'd call evil, though. It's just a natural instinct of a particular race, and an instinct so strong and ingrained that they are commonly treated as monsters beyond any of the other non-human races. Perhaps it can be carefully controlled or redirected in some way, but that would likely be done through social conditioning which grants them the ability to restrain their impulses. And being a former human who was physically transformed into an angel through some strange ritual, without the benefits of growing up in angel culture (if there is such a thing) you haven't yet formed the suitable mental tools to cope with it and recover your 'normal' self should you indulge in that instinct.

But B is there on the assumption that the 'normal' self is undesirable and can't cut it, so that is not a problem anyway.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
I don't think this tension is bad and have enjoyed a lot of games and narratives that include such mechanics, but I don't think they reflect fundamental truths of the universe, at least not in an unqualified fashion. E.g., maybe indulging in anger really does psychologically warp you in unavoidable ways, but perhaps that doesn't result in an inevitable slide into becoming a slave to your own rage if your character also has remarkably developed mental discipline; in that event, maybe it just makes him off-putting to others with more tender sensibilities. I.e., specific downsides of corruption can be offset or mitigated by developing appropriate counter-traits. It'd be cool to see a game where the consequences of conspiring with the forces of darkness were at least somewhat parameterized. Who knows, perhaps we're even playing one now.

We've actually seen this in treave's LP's before with Ean. After resisting his hunger for 3,000 years and being tortured due to the disastrous consequences of Sphere Diplomacy, when we came back to Earth and devoured the enormous Gieloth tree in Crete, Ean's mental discipline was strong enough to resist the corruption he would face at the cost of his life. Of course, he got resurrected later, but the point is, it isn't unprecedented.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Yeah, and all it cost us was a 3000 year time skip, the ability to play as Ean, and the accidental creation of a super-villain. :M
 

treave

Arcane
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11,370
Codex 2012
The optimized choices aren't always the most fun choices.

I mean, if you hadn't picked tits in the previous choice, you wouldn't have gotten a cow. :M
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
And our cow-based mercantile empire with change the world. :salute:


edit:
And being a former human who was physically transformed into an angel through some strange ritual, without the benefits of growing up in angel culture (if there is such a thing) you haven't yet formed the suitable mental tools to cope with it and recover your 'normal' self should you indulge in that instinct.
So basically we become a mindless monster?
 

archaen

Cipher
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Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
635
Our translation spell might translate our speech into beast tongue and we just spent the whole time saying what a pretty cow we had in front of us.

I will flop to A as Treaves explanation of B makes it too drastic for my tastes. I just wanted her to be beat down for her betrayal and make sure she was humbled enough to never stand against us again.
 

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