Let's bitch about STEAM! - The Thread!

[Dexter]

He's not the sole owner. And sure he's a billionaire. But why have your billion dollars in the form of a major stake in a video game company when you can have it in gold ingots instead? Hookers fucking love gold ingots.

Gabe is the sole owner (he owns over 50% of the company) and as already said is a billionaire: http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2012/03/07/valve-gabe-newell-billionaire/
Why the fuck would he sell if he does what he likes, works for a company that he likes in an environment he created with people he likes, again read this: http://cdn.flamehaus.com/Valve_Handbook_LowRes.pdf
You know for some people there's more than just money xD

Oh they might? Please tell me again how the recent PC RPG developer, Radon Labs, is doing. You must also be really looking forward to the upcoming STALKER 2 game.

Piranha Bytes went Steam xD
Also, some more examples of the "Steam effect":
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/...ublisher-ran-out-of-activation-keys-20101116/
http://www.thegamersblog.com/legend-of-grimrock-super-profitable/
http://indie-fund.com/2012/02/dear-esther-has-reached-profitability-it-took-5-hours-30-minutes/
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/63090/Terraria-Update-Trailer-Reveals-Over-1-Million-Copies-Sold
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/07/epic-loot-torchlight-sells-a-million/
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/01/super-meat-boy-pc-sold-more-in-two-weeks-than-xboxs-total-sales/
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/11/23/cthulhu-saves-the-world-bundle-drives-100k-insane-on-steam/
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/01/19/magicka-has-sold-1-3-million-copies-4m-dlc/
Case = point actually, Radon Labs didn't have much going with Steam, and they went bankrupt for other reasons (an important investor fell away from Drakensang 3): http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?rwsiteid=1&newsbit=14935
Again, you're bitching about the one thing that actually keeps this industry from being only AAA console crap in the first place, I bet Wasteland 2, Double Fine Adventure and the Shadowrun game will sell shittons on Steam too if they end up any good xD

I've read that Valve is working on improving the system so that only changed/new files will be included in a patch, thus mitigating the issue of huge patch sizes. I don't know if this has already been implemented but IMO it's a step in the right direction and I can't see any reason why they would not want to do this as it would be a win/win for everyone involved.
- No more forced patching for games. I can understand forced patching for the client as they have to stay ahead of hackers/crackers, but for games it is unacceptable to me to be locked out of my purchase if I am in a situation where I do not have the bandwidth available to download a specific patch. Not to mention issues with mod compatibility, etc.

They already did the improved patching system. You're also not forced to Patch bro, you can disable it for any game (you can't rollback though after you did it). Customer Service is one of the best out there from what I can tell, about on the same Level as CDProjekt with GoG.
I agree with your point regarding a better Offline Mode and retarded unenforceable EULA though taking away consumer rights. Those are my two biggest complaints with the platform too.
People arguing against their rights telling people they don't own what they buy cause some EULA said something are fucking retarded.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the issues with mods and the hoops it makes you jump through if you want certain not neccessarily current patches.

They're working on Mods: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/
Seen what they did for/with SKYRIM? It's already announced for a large number of other games.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/05/02/s...mes-on-steam-which-mods-are-the-most-popular/

Honestly I was as against Steam as some of you guys till like 2010, my two main negatives have already been called by "lefthandblack" (a mix between Steam and GoG would be perfect), I only bought a few single games like Counter Strike: Source, Left4Dead and the Orange Box and aside of that tried to stay as far the fuck away from Steam as I could. Other than those I only had The Secret of Monkey Island: SE (as it was only released through Steam).
But after the Sales started (Summer Sale 2010 specifically for me I think) and they updated the Steam Client to be a lot better than it was before my resistance gradually broke, seriously have you looked at what kind of prices they sell some of these games? xD

And it's just sooooo much more convenient to have games in one place and being able to digitally access them: http://wastedonsteam.com/usd/id/dexter111 (I have 100MBit unmetered so I don't give a fuck about speed) and so much better to have all your games being installed with a click instead of having to go search for some disc you remember vaguely you put somewhere. When I need to go somewhere I just Log in to Steam on my Laptop, download whatever I might need quick without hassle and turn it into Offline Mode.
It's just so fucking convenient and offers some other great features.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Also not to be mean or anything but Gabe is morbidly obese and he is 49 years old. He could die at any time, it happens routinely to guys his age and size.

Do you trust his heirs?

 

[Jaesun]

Piranha Bytes went Steam xD

Piranha Bytes specifically made that decision? Oh OK.

 

[Executer]

Or you could pirate the game and send PB some money

Yeah, I have thought about doing that. Though I remember reading somewhere that it's a breach of contract for a developer to accept money without the publisher getting their cut.

Just send them X amount of money and say it's cause you like them, why put both them and yourself in the shit saying, "here's recommended retail money you can't accept for something I obtained illegally ".

Let's face it, not doing the above is just cheap laziness.

 

[Dexter]

I wouldn't give a flying fuck about Steam, if they didn't try to shove it down my throat as DRM on physical products. For example, I wanted to buy Risen 2, but now I can't because it's infected with Steam. I really really wanted to support Piranha Bytes, but now I have to pirate the game. That's why I care about the abomination that is Steam.
Do you see me bitching about Impulse? Nope. That's because Stardock or Gamestop (or whoever owns it now) didn't try to shove it down my throat via my physical edition purchases.

Piranha Bytes specifically made that decision? Oh OK.

Again, they don't require platform exclusivity... it even says here pretty clearly: http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php

8. Do you require exclusivity for titles you sell on Steam?
We think you should get your game in front of as many people as you can, therefore we do not require exclusivity on titles.

There's countless games that don't do it that way and I've already mentioned a dozen of them e.g. Witcher 2, Torchlight, Rayman Origins, almost all Kickstarters etc.
It's not like they're fucking Microsoft:
http://nexus404.com/Blog/2011/08/24...-on-psn-first-games-that-get-more-content-on/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-24-why-microsoft-wont-publish-psn-firsts
Publishers/developers decide to release on Steam (only) out of a countless number of rational or irrational reasons...
Deep Silver/Piranha Bytes I believe because of this: http://www.geek.com/articles/games/...ublisher-ran-out-of-activation-keys-20101116/
There's a whole number of threads where Michael Rüve defends the move to Steam on WorldofRisen and he never seems really dishonest.

If you want more games without Steam or rather also on GoG/other services complain to them, there's no sort of "Exclusivity Agreement" with Valve or anything like that.

Oh yes, forgot about this, this is the result of Indie devs asked which platform is the best to work with: http://nightmaremode.net/2011/10/st...est-platform-to-develop-indie-games-on-12073/

 

[Jaesun]

ICanCountToPotato.jpg

 

[Renegen]

Today I couldn't upload screenshots to the Steam cloud for 2 hours. This is not a new problem. Every so often Steam also decides to crash or reset everything or refuses to load, these are not new problems either. It's like 3 years ago they agreed Steam was done and any further problem was just going to be sweeped under the rug, I really hate their approach where you constantly have to deal with their bullshit. It's hard to trust the platform.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Do you see me bitching about Impulse? Nope. That's because Stardock or Gamestop (or whoever owns it now) didn't try to shove it down my throat via my physical edition purchases.

Actually I'm fairly sure you still needed a valid Stardock account if you wanted to patch your games at least for galciv2, Demigod, and SoaSE. And looking up the webpages for those games, that is indeed the case. They typically say download the update via Impulse and in the case of galciv2, go to your profile page. They do shove it down your throat as much as Steam unless you don't want to patch your games.

And as for Tripjack thinking Gabe would sell Steam, as mentioned by Dexter it's highly unlikely. Gabe was already a millionaire before forming Valve (He worked at Microsoft early on before that) and made Valve because this was what he wanted to do. He's making money hand over fist from Valve, but it doesn't change the fact that the reason he started this was because it was something he wanted to do for fun. Even in more recent interviews he's mentioned the reason he still works at Valve instead of lying on a bed made of hookers is because he loves working at Valve. And even in the event that he got sick of it, he seems like such a nice laid back guy I would be inclined to believe he wouldn't just sell the company to EA or something stupid like that. And in the event he DID do that then I'd be fucked and lose all my games and I'd be sad and stop gaming and take up whittling or something.

And as for offline mode they could certainly improve it but I haven't had issues when my internet craps out on me. Typically the best way I've found to kick it in the pants for offline mode is disconnecting your network cable. If it's connected and the internet isn't working it'll sit and try to get online. Without network it's much faster offering offline mode. This is also ignoring that some (Though by no means all) of third party games on Steam (That don't use Steamworks) don't even require Steam to be running to run. So in the event of no internet and Steam offline mode not working there's a chance depending on what you've got installed you'll still be able to play anyway.

Fuck. Now I am turning in to Gaben defense force.

 

[Spectacle]

Do you see me bitching about Impulse? Nope. That's because Stardock or Gamestop (or whoever owns it now) didn't try to shove it down my throat via my physical edition purchases.

Actually I'm fairly sure you still needed a valid Stardock account if you wanted to patch your games at least for galciv2, Demigod, and SoaSE. And looking up the webpages for those games, that is indeed the case. They typically say download the update via Impulse and in the case of galciv2, go to your profile page. They do shove it down your throat as much as Steam unless you don't want to patch your games..

Stardock is now completely divorced from Impulse. The "Stardock account" is just a regular webpage with download links for your games. The Fallen Enchantress beta requires you to be online and connected to stardocks server, but they claim that's just to ensure that everyone is running the latest version so they won't get outdated bug reports, and will be removed in the final version. We'll see if they're sincere later...

 

[Outlander]

If you are over the age of, say 25, you can't defend this shit platform. You really can't.

I think older people would be less likely to give a shit about Steams's cons since they are the ones who like the convenience the most.

I don't know, 25+ gamers (I'm 31) started with video games when there wasn't any of this 'install a client to play your games' BS. Before it was just a simple matter of install game -> play game. Now it's Install game -> connect to the internet -> install whatever buggy-resources-eater software the publisher forces down your throat -> connect to the internet some more to play the game.

Younger gamers started gaming when this shit system was already in place so I don't know what perspective they can provide into the matter.

 

[Infinitron]

Before it was just a simple matter of install game -> play game.

You forgot about running SETUP.EXE (actually that's newschool popamole, it used to be INSTALL.EXE) and configging your Sound Blaster IRQ

Oh, and making a boot disk for games that needed large amounts of that sweet 640kb base RAM

 

[Outlander]

Before it was just a simple matter of install game -> play game.

You forgot about running SETUP.EXE (actually that's newschool popamole, it used to be INSTALL.EXE) and configging your Sound Blaster IRQ

Oh, and making a boot disk for games that needed large amounts of that sweet 640kb base RAM

Aha, because right up to 2005 all games ran on DOS 6.22.

 

[Dexter]

If you are over the age of, say 25, you can't defend this shit platform. You really can't.

I think older people would be less likely to give a shit about Steams's cons since they are the ones who like the convenience the most.

I don't know, 25+ gamers (I'm 31) started with video games when there wasn't any of this 'install a client to play your games' BS. Before it was just a simple matter of install game -> play game. Now it's Install game -> connect to the internet -> install whatever buggy-resources-eater software the publisher forces down your throat -> connect to the internet some more to play the game.

Younger gamers started gaming when this shit system was already in place so I don't know what perspective they can provide into the matter.

I actually grew up with this shit:



And at the end you often found out that there was some shit transmission error and had to do it all over again after trying to blow on the playback head.

After that we had the Autoexec.bat and Config.sys time where you had to manually remove driver components to get enough EMS/XMS and hope to god that your sound card is recognized in some way as Sound Blaster/Adlib Compatible or whatnot.

Then we had the early Windows time where shit would crash if you just looked at it or dared touch it the wrong way, needed to Patch everything manually and had to deal with all sorts of DRM trying to hijack your CD or DVD drives with its own drivers like StarForce and whatnot...

I'm rather fine with clicking on "Install Game" and "Play Now" after that, having almost my entire games library in one place and not having to search for them all over, thx.

Who the fuck "connects to the internet" nowadays? I'm on "the Internet" all the time.

 

[FeelTheRads]

This just in: Steam saved us from loading games from tapes and from drivers and memory issues.

 

[Arcks]

This just in: Steam saved us from loading games from tapes and from drivers and memory issues.

Perhaps you should just stop posting, as your pain regarding the subject is just making you incredibly dense.

 

[FeelTheRads]

That's funny, that's what I think about all the people portraying Steam as the coming of Jesus and who go every time a flaw about it is uttered.

 

[Dexter]

This just in: Steam saved us from loading games from tapes and from drivers and memory issues.

I'm not the moron saying that clicking two buttons is a lot more complicated than "just installing a game and playing" which was apparently so easy in the past and that everyone liking Steam has to be some sort of teen hipster or whatnot.
That said, Steam was actually mainly created to streamline the Patching process: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/the-last-of-the-independents-

Q: When developing Steam, did you make a conscious decision to look at what Microsoft was developing with Live and try to match that?
Doug Lombardi: You know, we went around to Yahoo, Microsoft...Who else was around at that time? Probably Real Networks and anybody who seemed like a likely candidate to build something like Steam.
We basically had our feature list that we wanted. We wanted auto-updating, we wanted better anti-piracy, better anti-cheat, and selling the games over the wire was something we came up with later. But we had like real world problems because Counter-Strike was getting huge and we would release these updates that would knock the 70 - 80 thousand simultaneous players right down to zero and it would take 48 - 72 hours for it to come back up and that was like this huge anxiety roller coaster that we would take every two or three months.
It also limited our ability to put those updates up because of that. It was like..."Well, if we're going to turn the lights off for 48 hours in the player community, the update needs to be worthy of that." So, you had to bundle up the things you were going to put up in the update or you're going to pull it out because you didn't want to take the roller coaster ride. So that was really the impetus to why we did [Steam].
We went around to everybody and said "Are you guys doing anything like this? We need this for our games, and therefore other people are going to need it someday soon." And everyone was like: "Blah, blah, blah...That's a million miles in the future." So we said "We need it now" and everyone said "Well, we can't help you."
So we just went off and started doing it. Once we pick something we just start going after it and we're not really too concerned with what other people are doing because that's just an easy way to get distracted.

As you might have noticed every time before a game starts Steam is also installing/updating respective drivers if they're needed by the game by itself e.g. stuff like the Visual C++ Redist, .net Framework, respective DirectX binaries needed for each game etc.
Gabe even mentioned once that retards not updating their Video card drivers was apparently one of their biggest support issues, which led to this feature: http://www.ghacks.net/2010/09/16/radeon-drivers-now-distributed-on-steam-platform/

 

[Deleted member 7219]

If you are over the age of, say 25, you can't defend this shit platform. You really can't.

I think older people would be less likely to give a shit about Steams's cons since they are the ones who like the convenience the most.

I don't know, 25+ gamers (I'm 31) started with video games when there wasn't any of this 'install a client to play your games' BS. Before it was just a simple matter of install game -> play game. Now it's Install game -> connect to the internet -> install whatever buggy-resources-eater software the publisher forces down your throat -> connect to the internet some more to play the game.

Younger gamers started gaming when this shit system was already in place so I don't know what perspective they can provide into the matter.

I actually grew up with this shit:



And at the end you often found out that there was some shit transmission error and had to do it all over again after trying to blow on the playback head.

After that we had the Autoexec.bat and Config.sys time where you had to manually remove driver components to get enough EMS/XMS and hope to god that your sound card is recognized in some way as Sound Blaster/Adlib Compatible or whatnot.

Then we had the early Windows time where shit would crash if you just looked at it or dared touch it the wrong way, needed to Patch everything manually and had to deal with all sorts of DRM trying to hijack your CD or DVD drives with its own drivers like StarForce and whatnot...

I'm rather fine with clicking on "Install Game" and "Play Now" after that, having almost my entire games library in one place and not having to search for them all over, thx.

Who the fuck "connects to the internet" nowadays? I'm on "the Internet" all the time.

 

[Grim Monk]

Here is a cool experiment for you guys:

Go to the store and buy a boxed version of game, say "Fallout: New Vegas" for example.

Next turn off your internet connection.

Install and start playing F:NV without turning it back on.

Then you can go around telling people that Steam has "No DRM".

 

[Outlander]

I'm not the moron saying that clicking two buttons is a lot more complicated than "just installing a game and playing"

Nobody is saying that Steam is ''complicated'' for fuck's sake. In fact it's quite the opposite and nobody says otherwise.

It's just an unnecessary hassle created for moronic consoletards that cannot into drivers and patches. Call me crazy but I want to know what a new driver does before installing it in my system and on top of that without me knowing about it. How the fuck am I supposed to troubleshoot a problem with my PC if I don't know what the fuck Steam/Origin/Bollocks just updated?

And if you're 'on the Internet' all the time, good luck when Steam or your connection goes down and you can't save your game, or you just can't simply load a fucking game because your ISP is being an asshole. And obviously it's not your case but people travel a lot, game on their laptops and a free wifi hotspot is not always available. And who the fuck would want to connect to a free wifi hotspot anyway.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Well, all these Steam apologists should be very happy when everything goes to OnLive and similar platforms. Hey, it's even more convenient. You don't even have to download the game and if they have those awesome internet connections they'll have no problems. Plus, you own the game just as much as you own it on Steam.

 

[DwarvenFood]

-nostalgia-

Pff I remember having a separate entry in my boot menu (config.sys) just for MechWarrior2 Mercenaries, because for the love of god I could not free up enough memory without really clamping down on some shit, like cd-rom driver had to go... haha.

Yeah, I'm pretty happy and not happy at the same time with Steam. For me, the most usefull feature is having all the games in a "cloud", ready for download on any of my machines without worrying about corrupt HDD's or scratched CD's. (yes I could re-download from TPB but honestly, which has the better chance of surviving, also there is no guarantee that there will be x number of seeders for unknown title #6345).

I hate how offline mode (does not) work and I hope it will be fixed eventually. For heavy modding, don't really do that anymore but I guess if you're willing to play and install mod's on top of games you can handle getting the game through alternative channels as well it would almost count as legal since you already own rent a copy.

I do agree that if Steam stops, GabeN heart-attacks out of here and some Korean overlords step in (EA much?), or whatever else can happen - all the mighty can fall eventually - then a lot of people will be butthurt to say the least. I don't really see a "best" option right now, stuff like gamersgate or GOG also does not have indefinite life.

 

[lefthandblack]

They already did the improved patching system. You're also not forced to Patch bro, you can disable it for any game

I get so tired of having to refute this. Unless they have radically changed the system recently, this is not correct. The "Do not update this game" setting only works for games that you are not actively playing. As soon as you try to play a game with a network connection present, Steam will phone home and force you to update the game if there is an update available. If you install an off the shelf copy of a game that is bound through Steamworks, the same thing applies. In the case of a new game installation or a re-install of an old game there is no way to get around it. If the game's updates are larger than your bandwidth cap, you are locked out of your game until you find a way to patch it.

They're working on Mods: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/

Which I see as the beginning of a framework to to be able to END OF RINE any mods that the publisher or Valve doesn't like.

Fast forward to the time that you are required to distribute mods via Steam:

Let's Say that I make a mod for Skyrim that lets you play as the Codex Troll, enslave nations with necromancy and cast the spell "Skyways Lesser Butthurt". What do you think would happen?

It's true that currently I could get a C&D from a lawyer to stop me from distributing a mod like that. The difference is that now it would already be in the wild by the time Bethesda noticed.

I have 100MBit unmetered so I don't give a fuck about speed

This is why Steam works for you. Try using it with either a very slow or low cap connection and get back to me.


DwarvenFood

I don't really see a "best" option right now, stuff like gamersgate or GOG also does not have indefinite life.

The difference being that games bought from GOG are not bound to GOG in any way and games bought from GG can be divorced from GG if you know how to copy temporary files while the installer is running*.

*provided the game in question has no additional DRM.

 

[Lunac]

Well, all these Steam apologists should be very happy when everything goes to OnLive and similar platforms. Hey, it's even more convenient. You don't even have to download the game and if they have those awesome internet connections they'll have no problems. Plus, you own the game just as much as you own it on Steam.

Sadly, sarcasm aside, for all but the few hardcore Valve/Steam fanbois the rest of them would and will drop Steam as soon as stream gaming becomes the norm. Kids are dumb these days, real dumb. And the ones that grow up with stream gaming will be fuking turnips.


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[pocahaunted]

Another thread flooded with the Gabe personality cult, who would've thought.

In a few years, I'm betting we'll have threads akin to the mind numbing circle jerks that are reddit and 4chan, with content being mostly comprised of the following:

a) Attempts to fit the retarded bastardized noun, "GABEN", into every other phrase and claims of how much of a god he is.
b) "THIS IS WHY I LOVE STEAM"/"DOES ANYONE ELSE LOVE STEAMS?!", followed by a retarded screenshot of a shitty game being offered at a discount.
c) Bonus references unrelated to Steam, including the worship of pokemans as the bestest thing ever.

Steam is a buggy, resource hog of a DRM service. It's not a fucking charity. Fanatic brand loyal to "GABEN" or Valve isn't any different than what the people at Bethesda and BioWare forums display.