Incline Josh Sawyer appreciation station

[Spukrian]

(until cancellation).

Please elaborate. What did Sawyer do?

EDIT: Clarified.

 

[Tyranicon]

(until cancellation).

Please elaborate. What did he do?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...wsuit-over-sexual-assault-accusations.146634/

TL;DR: Got accused of sexual assault, sued, won and cleared his name, supposedly got 2 mil(?) USD too.

It was a great bonding/vindication moment for the codex even though Avellone hasn't publicly visited us in years.

 

[Roguey]

Was the faceroll release dictated by marketing?

Deadfire targeted a larger and thus more casual audience.

When it came to Pillars of Eternity his attitude was

The game is being designed for relatively high difficulty at first and later tuned down for lower levels of difficulty. It's easier to lower difficulty from a high bar than to raise it from a shallow baseline.

With Deadfire it was

“When Deadfire came out, we erred a little—or a lot, depending on what your play style is—it being too easy,” said Sawyer. By the time Deadfire launched on May 8 of 2018, wheels were already in motion on rolling out patches that would increase difficulty for players. “I said, ‘Well, between too easy and too hard, I'd rather err on the side of too easy, and tune up from there,’” Sawyer continued.

They are ultimately not interested and not very good at making any kind of RPG tuned for the average Codexer.

 

[Spukrian]

(until cancellation).

Please elaborate. What did he do?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...wsuit-over-sexual-assault-accusations.146634/

TL;DR: Got accused of sexual assault, sued, won and cleared his name, supposedly got 2 mil(?) USD too.

It was a great bonding/vindication moment for the codex even though Avellone hasn't publicly visited us in years.

Well, what I meant was "What did Sawyer do?" because I'm up to speed with Avellone.

 

[Gargaune]

You don't seem to understand what long tail means. The fact that its player count is just a bit under PoE's despite having a lower maximum player count is proof of the long tail. A slow-but-consistent seller that eventually made a profit.

I wish more of you would take into account the concepts of financing and opportunity cost when discussing profitability. A "long tail" is a case of diminishing yields even before inflation becomes a factor, publishers assess profitability against specific dates and revenue targets for a reason. Otherwise, given a million years, fucking Redfall might earn more dollars than it cost, that won't mean it will have retroactively made a profit.

As for Deadfire, it was disappointing commercially (and not only), it was more expensive than Pillars and it sold less. Straight from the horse's mouth:

[...] I do think that the relatively low sales of Deadfire mean that if we consider making another Pillars game in this style, we’re going to have to re-examine the entire format of the game. [...] Pathfinder: Kingmaker, which generally had lower review scores than Deadfire, sold better than Deadfire and had RTwP combat. [...] I’m sure some of the people reading this think they know precisely why Deadfire sold worse than Pillars 1.

And guess what? The third "Pillars of Eternity" game is in a different "style", let alone format, and getting promoted primarily under a new brand, in case anyone's missed this here thread's title the title of that thread over there.

 

[AwesomeButton]

the average Codexer

Whatever that means nowadays.

 

[AwesomeButton]

, in case anyone's missed this here thread's title

This isn't the Awowed thread :D

 

[Roguey]

Well, what I meant was "What did Sawyer do?" because I'm up to speed with Avellone.

He existed in the past. Plenty of things a person with the will can use against him to end his career.

As for Deadfire, it was disappointing commercially (and not only), it was more expensive than Pillars and it sold less. Straight from the horse's mouth:

He wrote that before it made enough money to give him a nice bonus. Failures don't get bonuses. Sorry man but it's not 2018 anymore. Deadfire was a belated success.

 

[Gargaune]

Sorry man but it's not 2018 anymore.

 

[Spukrian]

Well, what I meant was "What did Sawyer do?" because I'm up to speed with Avellone.

He existed in the past. Plenty of things a person with the will can use against him to end his career.

Yeah, I figured. Best you keep it to yourself if you know something...

 

[Roguey]

the average Codexer

Whatever that means nowadays.

It's reasonable to say that most people here have a far greater understanding of crpgs than the average rpg player, but there is a range even here. The popular opinion here is that Pillars combat was not very interesting or demanding. Me, I thought Hard was difficult enough, so I would be below-average in the context of this forum.

 

[Gargaune]

, in case anyone's missed this here thread's title

This isn't the Awowed thread :D

But I was... And then he was... Did they move it, or was I posting in here all along? I need a drink. I'm getting a drink.

 

[Tyranicon]

Well, what I meant was "What did Sawyer do?" because I'm up to speed with Avellone.

He existed in the past. Plenty of things a person with the will can use against him to end his career.

This industry is so fickle and cancel happy that I can't imagine actually working in one of these godless slop factories.

Going independent is much better. At least then you won't get fired just because of some false accusations. Ridiculous.

 

[Nikanuur]

Well, what I meant was "What did Sawyer do?" because I'm up to speed with Avellone.

He existed in the past. Plenty of things a person with the will can use against him to end his career.

This industry is so fickle and cancel happy that I can't imagine actually working in one of these godless slop factories.

Going independent is much better. At least then you won't get fired just because of some false accusations. Ridiculous.

As one independently artful creator of artsy ...something that artistically changes some hues, lightnings, and all in the not-so-much-of-an-art-game Hogwarts Legacy to another independent creator of a game, I agree.
(Please don't kill me in my sleep.)
I don't even know why I am saying this here.
I also need a drink.
It's those Friday evenings... it must be...

 

[AwesomeButton]

the average Codexer

Whatever that means nowadays.

It's reasonable to say that most people here have a far greater understanding of crpgs than the average rpg player, but there is a range even here. The popular opinion here is that Pillars combat was not very interesting or demanding. Me, I thought Hard was difficult enough, so I would be below-average in the context of this forum.

I've found it depends a lot on the thread you're in, heh. In the occasions I've opened a reddit thread from some google search result, I've been surprised how much the shallow, uninformed opinions and poor vocabulary resemble those that are predominant here. "Knowledge of RPGs" has devolved to lobbing memes and not especially well thought-out truisms about one game or another. "This and that had good writing" "This other one was too woke". If the game is part of a series, then the ones after the first inevitably "sucked". Explanations and analysis are so basic, you're better off not starting a discussion at all.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Well, what I meant was "What did Sawyer do?" because I'm up to speed with Avellone.

He existed in the past. Plenty of things a person with the will can use against him to end his career.

This industry is so fickle and cancel happy that I can't imagine actually working in one of these godless slop factories.

Going independent is much better. At least then you won't get fired just because of some false accusations. Ridiculous.

But you must have a day job, I guess?

 

[Desiderius]

Was the faceroll release dictated by marketing?

Deadfire targeted a larger and thus more casual audience.

When it came to Pillars of Eternity his attitude was

The game is being designed for relatively high difficulty at first and later tuned down for lower levels of difficulty. It's easier to lower difficulty from a high bar than to raise it from a shallow baseline.

With Deadfire it was

“When Deadfire came out, we erred a little—or a lot, depending on what your play style is—it being too easy,” said Sawyer. By the time Deadfire launched on May 8 of 2018, wheels were already in motion on rolling out patches that would increase difficulty for players. “I said, ‘Well, between too easy and too hard, I'd rather err on the side of too easy, and tune up from there,’” Sawyer continued.

They are ultimately not interested and not very good at making any kind of RPG tuned for the average Codexer.

This is such a stupid line to take.

The fights gating Fort Joy were harder than anything in either version of Deadfire and D:OS II sold like hotcakes. The long tail happened *after* they got rid of the faceroll at release.

Stop insulting your audience = sell more games!

 

[Tyranicon]

But you must have a day job, I guess?

Me in particular, or indies in general?

Personally, gamedev is my fulltime. It pays my bills (for now). But yeah solodev is a rough gig and while there was a time I was more optimistic about it, now I would discourage basically 99.999% of people from ever attempting fulltime solo. Or even fulltime with a small team.

Unless of course you have industry connections, years of experience, and are somewhat (hopefully?) semi-wealthy like Sawyer, Avellone and others.

You have to be insane and stupid to quit a well-paying career just to go off and spend 12 hours a day to make weird niche RPGs with no promise of financial security.

 

[Roguey]

This is such a stupid line to take.

The fights gating Fort Joy were harder than anything in either version of Deadfire and D:OS II sold like hotcakes. The long tail happened *after* they got rid of the faceroll at release.

Stop insulting your audience = sell more games!

Obsidian's always made the kind of games they're capable of playing themselves.

I can personally test things on Hard, as can Bobby and a few other folks, but most of the other devs cannot. Or rather, they wouldn't really get anywhere. If I listened to them for tuning advice, Hard wouldn't be hard at all.

If Obsidian's designers played D:OS II, I imagine they had to do it on Easy and/or never made it past the opening area (the average Larian fan experience).

 

[Desiderius]

Then they need to git gud.

If the freaking Belge can do it anyone can. This is just the usual Soyer selling other people short to pump up that ego.

It’s not the average Larian fan experience not to make it past the opening area. Why would a gazillion people buy a game they can’t play (and its sequel)?

This is @Fedora Master’s cue to remind people I barely made it out of Act 1 in BG3, but that’s just because it was so freaking full that it triggered my completionism. Obsidian games have a lot of shit to try out too.

But Larian has some (relatively) tough gates while Obsidian once you get established there’s nothing really there that scares you. Steep roller coasters and horror movies are popular. People like getting taken out of their comfort zone.

 

[AwesomeButton]

You have to be insane and stupid to quit a well-paying career just to go off and spend 12 hours a day to make weird niche RPGs with no promise of financial security.

I'll put this on my list of dream activities for post-retirement, along with writing a fantasy novel.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Why would a gazillion people buy a game they can’t play (and its sequel)?

 

[Roguey]

It’s not the average Larian fan experience not to make it past the opening area.

Oh indeed it is.

D:OS Classic and D:OS Enhanced

33-31% make it as far as Evelyn. 23-25% actually complete Cyseal by beating Braccus Rex. 75% of D:OS players never get out of it.

D:OS 2

57% of players make it out of Fort Joy. 46% of players beat Alexander. 54% of D:OS 2 players never leave the island.

BG3

51% finish act 1 which obviously means that 49% did not.

A lot of people just fuck around for a while until they get bored or hit a brick wall, then move on. They enjoyed fucking around, so they get the next one.

 

[gurugeorge]

It’s not the average Larian fan experience not to make it past the opening area.

Oh indeed it is.

D:OS Classic and D:OS Enhanced

33-31% make it as far as Evelyn. 23-25% actually complete Cyseal by beating Braccus Rex. 75% of D:OS players never get out of it.

D:OS 2

57% of players make it out of Fort Joy. 46% of players beat Alexander. 54% of D:OS 2 players never leave the island.

BG3

51% finish act 1 which obviously means that 49% did not.

A lot of people just fuck around for a while until they get bored or hit a brick wall, then move on. They enjoyed fucking around, so they get the next one.

That pattern seems to hold for most games, and in that context one can hardly blame developers for front-loading their games.

(Frankly, the only game in recent years that has been a consistently "dense" experience all the way through to the very end for me has been Disco Elysium.)

 

[Cross]