Jagged Alliance Jagged Alliance 2, Temple of Elemental Evil & Silent Storm Retrospectives

[Comte]

Is it better to use an older version of 1.13 or the newest?

 

[GarfunkeL]

Newest has most features and bug fixes, though fixes nowadays are generally just for features and stuff that earlier 1.13 versions added.

Some early versions of 1.13 are fairly popular, before they introduced some big features like aimable burst/auto fire. But since you can now toggle all the features on or off based on your preferences, I don't see the point. Khor would have a different opinion, he's very passionate of old 1.13

 

[Falksi]

Never played this first time round, and tried to get into it around 2 years back, but just found it simplistic, dull & structured strangely.

However, I'm an open minded chap & only played the first couple of missions, so does it get any better? Any info on how long it takes to get good, or recomended fun ways of playing?

 

[GarfunkeL]

If you have missions, you're not playing Jagged Alliance 2. Since it doesn't have missions but is open-world game just like the original Jagged Alliance.

Are you mixing it up with Jagged Alliance: Deadly Games? That has missions.

 

[Falksi]

If you have missions, you're not playing Jagged Alliance 2. Since it doesn't have missions but is open-world game just like the original Jagged Alliance.

Are you mixing it up with Jagged Alliance: Deadly Games? That has missions.

Nah it's defo JA2, just a turn of phrase.

 

[GarfunkeL]

You're talking of missions and structure, when it's an open-world game with no missions and structure is the sandbox of Arulco. I don't understand what you mean.

 

[luinthoron]

It's quite easy to see liberating each sector as one mission, I'd say. Understandable enough.

 

[GarfunkeL]

It's still extremely misleading since there is no fixed order on them. The game hints at you to liberate Drassen first but you can go for another town. And especially after taking Drassen, it's entirely up to the player in which order to proceed. Plus a sector cannot be a mission because you don't fight for each sector the way you did in original Jagged Alliance. He claimed to have found JA2 "simplistic, dull & structured strangely" when it's anything but that, as it is literally the best example of its genre in existence. Frankly I think he's full of shit and hasn't actually played the game at all and is trying to be hipster-cool for some unfathomable reason.

 

[Falksi]

So can someone who isn't overly obsessive with terminology, tell me if it gets any better after the "early game" please?

I seem to remember playing it until I moved onto another screen (think I approached from the SouthWest) & it just didn't click. Was very early game, but wondering what makes it so great?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Okay, are enemy guns sometimes unlootable or what?

 

[HansDampf]

You can't loot dead bodies. If an enemy drops anything, it will be visible with a shining outline somewhere near the body.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Yeah, somehow he doesn't drop the gun he's holding but instead drops only the ammo in his pockets.

 

[GarfunkeL]

So can someone who isn't overly obsessive with terminology, tell me if it gets any better after the "early game" please?

I seem to remember playing it until I moved onto another screen (think I approached from the SouthWest) & it just didn't click. Was very early game, but wondering what makes it so great?

You literally played the first two minutes of the game, judged it to be shit and moved on. No, it doesn't get any better than that. Better stick with Farmville and Call of Duty.

Yeah, somehow he doesn't drop the gun he's holding but instead drops only the ammo in his pockets.

It's a game balance issue. With 1.13 you can make it so enemies drop all their carried stuff. It very quickly removes item scarcity from the game and makes many weapons pointless - you can go from pistols to rifles, skipping shotguns and SMGs. It also makes money almost meaningless, as selling all the extra stuff gives you more than enough. With increased prices, counter-attacks at every town, unlimited redshirts and other challenge features that 1.13 adds, "drop all items" can still work but with otherwise vanilla features, it's basically a cheat.

 

[Falksi]

So can someone who isn't overly obsessive with terminology, tell me if it gets any better after the "early game" please?

I seem to remember playing it until I moved onto another screen (think I approached from the SouthWest) & it just didn't click. Was very early game, but wondering what makes it so great?

You literally played the first two minutes of the game, judged it to be shit and moved on. No, it doesn't get any better than that. Better stick with Farmville and Call of Duty.

Yeah, somehow he doesn't drop the gun he's holding but instead drops only the ammo in his pockets.

It's a game balance issue. With 1.13 you can make it so enemies drop all their carried stuff. It very quickly removes item scarcity from the game and makes many weapons pointless - you can go from pistols to rifles, skipping shotguns and SMGs. It also makes money almost meaningless, as selling all the extra stuff gives you more than enough. With increased prices, counter-attacks at every town, unlimited redshirts and other challenge features that 1.13 adds, "drop all items" can still work but with otherwise vanilla features, it's basically a cheat.

According to Steam I played for 2 hours.

That's enough time to get a feel for a game.

So, with that in mind, I'd still like someone to tell me if it changes much from the early impressions? And also what, to them, makes this game so good?

Or maybe I should ask, how many hours in to it did it grab you all?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

And also what, to them, makes this game so good?

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you a storyfag?
In which case, begone, you have no place here.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Read Lilura's retrospective walkthrough which was linked the first post:
https://lilura1.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/Jagged-Alliance-2-Retrospective-Walkthrough-Part-I.html

And now, 2 hours isn't enough to get a feel of JA2, especially since you probably wasted an hour watching the cinematics, reading the laptop files and making your IMP character. But on the other hand, if you hated the tutorial combat, ie the very first battle at Omerta, then you will not change your opinion by playing any further.

 

[Serus]

So can someone who isn't overly obsessive with terminology, tell me if it gets any better after the "early game" please?

I seem to remember playing it until I moved onto another screen (think I approached from the SouthWest) & it just didn't click. Was very early game, but wondering what makes it so great?

You literally played the first two minutes of the game, judged it to be shit and moved on. No, it doesn't get any better than that. Better stick with Farmville and Call of Duty.

Yeah, somehow he doesn't drop the gun he's holding but instead drops only the ammo in his pockets.

It's a game balance issue. With 1.13 you can make it so enemies drop all their carried stuff. It very quickly removes item scarcity from the game and makes many weapons pointless - you can go from pistols to rifles, skipping shotguns and SMGs. It also makes money almost meaningless, as selling all the extra stuff gives you more than enough. With increased prices, counter-attacks at every town, unlimited redshirts and other challenge features that 1.13 adds, "drop all items" can still work but with otherwise vanilla features, it's basically a cheat.

According to Steam I played for 2 hours.

That's enough time to get a feel for a game.

So, with that in mind, I'd still like someone to tell me if it changes much from the early impressions? And also what, to them, makes this game so good?

Or maybe I should ask, how many hours in to it did it grab you all?

I'll just answer the question about what makes it so good.
The tactical combat is rich in options (but not in your first few fights i suppose), can be challenging at times, especially with the right options on. It's a well designed tactical combat system, detailed enough but not to the point of being painfully slow at the same time. In fact one of the best ever created for a crpg imo.
Openness of it. You can basically do whatever you wish. Quests, towns to conquer, etc... there is no forced order to any of it - as long as you can keep up with enemies as they get stronger the more to the south of the map (closer to capital) you go and keep your finances running. You have a whole tiny country to explore. And there are some optional stuff to find as well. But it's not just pointless running around - there is still the main goal of killing the queen, you just can go about it in any way you wish.
Add to all that well done characters and setting (it's super cliche done well, good humour most of the time, would enrage SJWs probably with all the national stereotypes so it couldn't be done today) solid writing (not a lot of it mind you, just short dialogues and banters, but they are really spot on with humour imo thanks to a good usage of all the cliches. Well except the queen and her looser advisor - that I admit is rather lame and gets old fast.
Gun porn. Especially in 1.13. Many people like it.
It has Cleve himself as a character IN the game. Sort of.
It's just an all around good combat-centered computer role playing game with only a few significant weaknesses. Unless you are a storyfag - story is only a pretext to kill stuff and explore Arulco here.
So it all boils down to: do you like the combat system of the game and the type of humour the game offers. If not then you won't like it.
And yes, combat system becomes more varied as game progress. At the start all you have are at best SMG or shotguns. But in reality game offers different options and challenges. Night vs day, sniper weapons, in-doors combat, explosives, even light mortars. All funny stuff that you would expect is there. Except vehicles in combat - which exist but in very limited form, especially in vanilla game.

"I'm here. I ate every bug along the way. There were many" - Maddog

Edit: Jagged Alliance 2 is like an 80s action movie but in crpg form. Most people think that they're silly and great at the same time but not everyone must share the taste.

Edit2: Death to the Jew who keeps JA2 threads in Tactical Gaming instead of General RPG Discussions. You know who You are. Well, everyone knows.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

So can someone who isn't overly obsessive with terminology, tell me if it gets any better after the "early game" please?

I seem to remember playing it until I moved onto another screen (think I approached from the SouthWest) & it just didn't click. Was very early game, but wondering what makes it so great?

You literally played the first two minutes of the game, judged it to be shit and moved on. No, it doesn't get any better than that. Better stick with Farmville and Call of Duty.

Yeah, somehow he doesn't drop the gun he's holding but instead drops only the ammo in his pockets.

It's a game balance issue. With 1.13 you can make it so enemies drop all their carried stuff. It very quickly removes item scarcity from the game and makes many weapons pointless - you can go from pistols to rifles, skipping shotguns and SMGs. It also makes money almost meaningless, as selling all the extra stuff gives you more than enough. With increased prices, counter-attacks at every town, unlimited redshirts and other challenge features that 1.13 adds, "drop all items" can still work but with otherwise vanilla features, it's basically a cheat.

According to Steam I played for 2 hours.

That's enough time to get a feel for a game.

So, with that in mind, I'd still like someone to tell me if it changes much from the early impressions? And also what, to them, makes this game so good?

Or maybe I should ask, how many hours in to it did it grab you all?

I'll just answer the question about what makes it so good.
The tactical combat is rich in options (but not in your first few fights i suppose), can be challenging at times, especially with the right options on. It's a well designed tactical combat system, detailed enough but not to the point of being painfully slow at the same time. In fact one of the best ever created for a crpg imo.
Openness of it. You can basically do whatever you wish. Quests, towns to conquer, etc... there is no forced order to any of it - as long as you can keep up with enemies as they get stronger the more to the south of the map (closer to capital) you go and keep your finances running. You have a whole tiny country to explore. And there are some optional stuff to find as well. But it's not just pointless running around - there is still the main goal of killing the queen, you just can go about it in any way you wish.
Add to all that well done characters and setting (it's super cliche done well, good humour most of the time, would enrage SJWs probably with all the national stereotypes so it couldn't be done today) solid writing (not a lot of it mind you, just short dialogues and banters, but they are really spot on with humour imo thanks to a good usage of all the cliches. Well except the queen and her looser advisor - that I admit is rather lame and gets old fast.
Gun porn. Especially in 1.13. Many people like it.
It has Cleve himself as a character IN the game. Sort of.
It's just an all around good combat-centered computer role playing game with only a few significant weaknesses. Unless you are a storyfag - story is only a pretext to kill stuff and explore Arulco here.
So it all boils down to: do you like the combat system of the game and the type of humour the game offers. If not then you won't like it.
And yes, combat system becomes more varied as game progress. At the start all you have are at best SMG or shotguns. But in reality game offers different options and challenges. Night vs day, sniper weapons, in-doors combat, explosives, even light mortars. All funny stuff that you would expect is there. Except vehicles in combat - which exist but in very limited form, especially in vanilla game.

"I'm here. I ate every bug along the way. There were many" - Maddog

Edit: Jagged Alliance 2 is like an 80s action movie but in crpg form. Most people think that they're silly and great at the same time but not everyone must share the taste.

Edit2: Death to the Jew who keeps JA2 threads in Tactical Gaming instead of General RPG Discussions. You know who You are. Well, everyone knows.

Laptop guy doesn't have stats.

 

[Gregz]

Laptop guy doesn't have stats.

There's a special place in hell for lawyers.

Don't compound your problems here.

 

[Lilura]

I have since revised commentary of my Jagged Alliance 2 retrospective (posted 9 more write-ups).

Before I leave the 'Dex again, I would like everyone to acknowledge that Jagged Alliance 2 is one of the greatest RPGs ever. And if this thread gets moved to General Gaming again, I'll leave as well.

Thank you for reading, and have a lovely day.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

And if this thread gets moved to General Gaming again, I'll leave as well.

A more effective threat would be to redirect watchtards to the Dex.

 

[Lilura]

I'm just trying to make a point that JA2 threads belong here. I mean, Fluent has a Fallout 4 thread here. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but he's one of the biggest Watch'tards out there.

 

[GreyViper]

I have to agree it is indeed one of the greatest RPGs ever made. Proud to say I'm still playing it and there is at least 3 versions RR, UC & DL of it on my work PC that I boot up at quiet times. I do have to point out that it would be half the game without amazing JA2 modding community like people from Bearspit. The v1.13 tactical options and roleplay elements numerous that not many games can boast in that regard.

Special mentions to AIMNAS: Smeagol's Alpha Item mod that came out a bit before New Inventory system. Why, because it added the RNG element to guns that could spawn with high-end attachments that you could not remove, also the Macgyver like the system that was added that let you combine many things into high-end optics.

 

[Lilura]

I brofisted because you share the viewpoint. But I just want to make my viewpoint clear: even if we don't include mods, and just talk about stock JA2, for me it's the greatest RPG ever. But it's also more than an RPG. The attention to detail is astonishing for a 1999 game, and its base systems still hold up well. I outlined some of that in Part I of my write-up.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

The attention to detail is astonishing for a 1999 game

The attention to detail is astonishing. Period.

Sir-Tech is still missed.