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Jagged Alliance Jagged Alliance 2, Temple of Elemental Evil & Silent Storm Retrospectives

Which game has the best tactics?

  • Jagged Alliance 2

  • Silent Storm

  • Temple of Elemental Evil


Results are only viewable after voting.

Maggot

Arcane
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Joined
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
That this franchise has not been properly continued/remade is unfuckingbelievable. I played the RTWP crap and man, what were they thinking.
There have been no total conversion mods in recent years, either.

I haven't kept up past 1.13 tbh. You can only expect so much from the modders with no new proper game in ages and all that ancient code.

The game mechanics or some derivative thereof should have become the industry standard for (most) turn based tactics games long ago and continually improved upon since. Fucking industry.
Spending individual AP for a more accurate shot should be in every TBT game but now everything is just two actions with magic abilities :negative:
 
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Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
You should consider copy and pasting these into the let's play subforum.

Nah, this is too monocled for the Codex. I started this thread just to be :smug: and unlikeable. Plus, I want complete control over presentation and comments. Also, I lack the thuggish tone necessary to make this popular on the 'Dex.

:troll:

Great LP of a great game so far!

Thanks!
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
1,870,184
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
The legitimate successor to Jagged Alliance 2 is Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel.

After FTBoS we got Silent Storm, Silent Storm Sentinels, and Hammer &Sickle. And then nothing.

The subgenre of turnbased squadbased troop management gunporn style lite RPG.
 

SmartCheetah

Arcane
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
1,103
That's kinda weird and sad that such small number of people try to ressurect the true spirit of those games. I'm sure a lot of people would pay those 30$ to see PROPER Jagged Alliance successor (turnbased with action points and destructible enviroment)

Man, If I only was into programming. :/
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
I don't think devs are willing or even able to make games like this anymore. I mean, they can't even follow the simple formula of Baldur's Gate...
 

SmartCheetah

Arcane
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
1,103
I know right? There is something wrong with the mindset "Hey, lets make a new Jagged Alliance game!" "-Sure, I've got a brilliant idea! It's an OLD game right? Lets change how the best things about it worked!" "Genius!" ;_;
It would be amazing to see simple Jagged Alliance2 with good 3d graphics and better destructible enviroment/bullet physics. And then, just build on that.
 

HansDampf

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
1,548
That's kinda weird and sad that such small number of people try to ressurect the true spirit of those games. I'm sure a lot of people would pay those 30$ to see PROPER Jagged Alliance successor (turnbased with action points and destructible enviroment)
There seems to be a strange aversion to action points among devs. BiA didn't even have TB combat to begin with. NuXCOM devs say TUs aren't fun because they make combat too slow-paced. And even Gollop decided not to use them in Phoenix Point.
I don't understand. Worked well enough for me in old X-COM and JA2.
 

Severian Silk

Guest
The legitimate successor to Jagged Alliance 2 is Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel.

After FTBoS we got Silent Storm, Silent Storm Sentinels, and Hammer &Sickle. And then nothing.

The subgenre of turnbased squadbased troop management gunporn style lite RPG.
The legitimate successor to Jagged Alliance 2 is Silent Storm. FOT was a big step backward.

That's kinda weird and sad that such small number of people try to ressurect the true spirit of those games. I'm sure a lot of people would pay those 30$ to see PROPER Jagged Alliance successor (turnbased with action points and destructible enviroment)

Man, If I only was into programming. :/

What's weird is that there are about a half dozen good "total conversion mods" for JA2. But, they were already released prior to the 1.13 mod. None have been made since.

[edit]

I just checked, and there is a new mod called Vengeance: Reloaded!

Vengeance: Reloaded is based on one of the very first German JA2 mods originally created by The Scorpion. Development began originally by Hawkeye and Scheinworld with the intention to work on a full English translation but with time grew into much more...

Screen_Drassen_market_zpsd88a6098.jpg

Rig_zpshiev6hdb.jpg

Nurse_zpswzilc0ar.jpg

Babyface_zps88kbuyfo.jpg


Players of the original Vengeance may be familiar with the plot line but Vengeance: Reloaded attempts to flesh out those stories and themes as well as introduce entirely new characters and quests while running on a 1.13 platform. The Scorpion himself gave us permission to adapt his original mod and he also proved to be invaluable when I first leaped head first into the foray of JA modding.

... In the hazy cordite clouded aftermath of the campaign to free Arulco, law and order was not restored quick enough, giving many war criminals supporting the Queen's regime opportunity to escape Miguel Cordona's forces and regroup.

Cordona`s regime was supposed to be democratic, but this resulted in widespread opposition, as the threat of all too common corruption made it impossible for the people to trust anybody. When Cordona wanted to stop newly acquired oil reserves on the west coast from being exported and instead use the petrol for rebuilding his country he created an enemy in the powerful Hale and Burton energy corporation who had instilled themselves within Arulco as part of an agreement for reparations and free-trade treaties with the US.

As international legal proceedings continued to dog Cardona's resources, lawlessness began to resurface and the criminals and warlords that had once been in hiding now began to reinstate themselves within the country and began a stranglehold in their own districts. This lack of security only seemed to attract more lawlessness, more criminals and more corruption and it was only a matter of time when the public became threatened by the very mercenary gangs that were supposed to be securing Arulco, they demanded for these foreign mercenaries to get out of their country.

A.I.M had held training bases in Alma, which was soon handed over to the rebuilt Arulco defence force, but managed to keep a vested interest by basing themselves south of Omerta, where they were still welcomed by the loyalty of the people there. However, with the Government's long-term intention to throw the mercenaries out of the country, morale sank and they started to look for their fortune privately, some even started to work for Hale and Burton and the fat salaries they were offering.

Then just as the unsettled country seemed to be sinking in a quagmire of bickering politics all hell broke loose, and one of the largest fears of Arulco's people reappeared in the shape of Queen Diedranna. Despite testimonies of senior A.I.M. staff claiming she was dead, Deidranna was once again directing her newly revitalized army from every corner of the country. Her face was in the newspapers, on the TV and her voice spanned the airwaves, claiming her sovereignty and promising death to all conspirators of those who had tried to overthrow her before. Her first major address delighted in informing surviving rebels that with the help from double agents AIM's base had been leveled in an overnight raid by her army.

With their camp seemingly destroyed, funds hemorrhaging and their reputation ruined in a country that no longer trusted them, an associate company only known as 'The Agency' have sanctioned you to lead a band of mercenaries to reclaim their base and track down their staff.

Your goal is, to find Miguel Cordona and restore his regime and find the traitors and punish them!

This is no longer business as usual....this is personal... this is VENGEANCE!!!
Or, more correctly, it is an old mod that was resurrected recently.
 
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thesheeep

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Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
But the thing about mods is, no matter how good, they will always be "just" a mod.
Not a game on their own, which could attract some more people.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
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Mars
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Why can't someone just make a new game with the JA2 engine? Is it lost forever thanks to the company now gone?
 

Spectacle

Arcane
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Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
Why can't someone just make a new game with the JA2 engine? Is it lost forever thanks to the company now gone?
The tools and know-how on how to work with it are almost certainly lost. It would probably be faster to make a brand new engine than get new developers up to speed on the JA2 engine, even if you could find the source code somewhere.
 

Burning Bridges

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
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Why can't someone just make a new game with the JA2 engine? Is it lost forever thanks to the company now gone?

Because it is not an engine but a complex beast with hand coded features. Much easier to start from scratch than to spend the next 10 years figuring out this mess.

even if you could find the source code somewhere.

The sourcecode for JA2 has been available for over 10 years.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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The author of this article can't write for shit. His English is worse than a primary schooler. He doesn't know JA2. And this is also very poor editorial work on behalf of felipepepe. Lots of the cRPG book articles are of this low standard, btw. And yet, the Codex holds it up as something not shit?
You know, if you gonna shit talk me, might at least have the courtesy to tag me.

I do appreciate criticism of the book, but all you did was point out grammar mistakes and say that Shanga - the guy who's been adm of the biggest JA2 fansite out there for 17 years - doesn't know JA2.

Good criticism would've have pointed out that the article focus too much on the experience, without explaining the underneath mechanics like stances, aiming, action points, mercenary creation, etc. Which BTW, you're also partially guilty of: you tell readers to reserve their AP, but nowhere did you explain how AP, stances and aiming your shots work.

It's too easy to assume readers know what you're talking about, especially when you're extremely familiar with a game. The JA2 was one of the first reviews I got, back in 2014 - I've learned a lot in the past years and now I take care that every review should explain the basic gameplay to those who never heard of it before. Still need to update a few older ones like this one, but I'll get there. Grammar is the smallest of issues here, I'm kinda disappointed you wasted all your time on them.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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The cRPG Book write-up for Jagged Alliance 2 is shit. Why not just admit it and do something about it? All you give is excuses.
For my part, I pointed out far bigger issues than you mentioned in my article and said I will update it. You, on the other hand, just entirely dismissed what I wrote about yours with boastful arrogance.

Easy to see who's the one unable to take criticism here. :roll:
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Pls, there is criticism of more than just grammar in there. Do I need to quote my criticism back to you?

I wrote enough about APs, stances and aiming. More than your article did. There is no need to describe everything in great detail; it's a companion to playing the game and the intricacies become evident as one plays. Also, it's a gradual reveal. I don't explain - f.e climbing - until there is a reason to (first SAM site). I've already covered more than any other retrospective and I'm only 4-parts done. And it's well-written. You have no right to criticize me.
 

ShadowSpectre

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 11, 2017
Messages
338
Location
Limbo
Personally, I appreciate Lilura's write-up on JA2 so far. I had the gold pack cd-rom version laying around and never ended up playing it until now. Surprisingly, it works better than any other solution on Windows 7 and doesn't need the disc in. That aside, the tips and functions noted in the guide are great because there are all these little features I'd never even think existed within the game (read: somehow JA2 has more going on than any other tactics strategy/management game to this day), but there they are. I play around with the features until I'm satisfied with what I'm doing anyways, but it's been a solid starting point.
 

BrotherJayne

Novice
Joined
May 7, 2017
Messages
13
Spending AP to aim and all is awesome, but the feature that I want most to see in another game is supression. Pinning down a bunch of dudes in an L ambush then crawling up for nadespam when they're pinned down is just amazing, and I've yet to find another game after 1.13 that does that (except close combat, graviteam etc)
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Personally, I appreciate Lilura's write-up on JA2 so far. I had the gold pack cd-rom version laying around and never ended up playing it until now. Surprisingly, it works better than any other solution on Windows 7 and doesn't need the disc in. That aside, the tips and functions noted in the guide are great because there are all these little features I'd never even think existed within the game (read: somehow JA2 has more going on than any other tactics strategy/management game to this day), but there they are. I play around with the features until I'm satisfied with what I'm doing anyways, but it's been a solid starting point.

Thanks for not being a butthurt Codexer. I'd like to think it's the best starting point you could have found online, and no one has cited a better example, so I'm gonna stick with that until someone does. I think the same holds true for my BG, IWD and BG2 write-ups, btw (they're not complete but, as intros, they are 2nd to none, imnsho).
 

Cholo

Arcane
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
766
Location
Val Verde
Spending AP to aim and all is awesome, but the feature that I want most to see in another game is supression. Pinning down a bunch of dudes in an L ambush then crawling up for nadespam when they're pinned down is just amazing, and I've yet to find another game after 1.13 that does that (except close combat, graviteam etc)
Check out the combat mission demos if you like that kind of thing
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
665
That's kinda weird and sad that such small number of people try to ressurect the true spirit of those games. I'm sure a lot of people would pay those 30$ to see PROPER Jagged Alliance successor (turnbased with action points and destructible enviroment)

Man, If I only was into programming. :/

Unfortunately, I don't think it'd be quite that easy, since people would find all kinds of reasons not to shell out $30 and pirate or wait for a 75% off sale on steam instead. Even if it was a feature-complete remake.
Personally, I feel the best course of action is the OpenXCom approach, where a 1:1 remake is created first, even using the original graphics. However, that usually rules out commercial projects.
 

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