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Endless Legend, fantasyland trying to fix Endless Space's flaws

Zeriel

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,969
AngryEddy said:
Zeriel said:
The canon end of game event has nothing to do with the Endless, it is your faction leaving the planet in SPASS SHEEPZ before it wipes out all life (it is going through a tectonic cataclycsm or something along those lines, that's why the winters are harsh and etc).
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that? The Wild Walker questline is about exploring ruins and the cyclical nature of things, and the picture of the end of eras is a lone, weird, tornado thing attacking a castle.
Click to expand...

That's straight from the developers. The last tier of tech is stuff approaching the understanding of spaceflight. Also, keep in mind the Vaulters are in Endless Space, so we know at least one faction got off the planet. AFAIR they are supposed to ALL be embryonic version of possible factions in Endless Space, though, the whole thing is circular. Presumedly some people stay behind and die as the planet suffers cataclysmic disturbances.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
Zeriel said:
AngryEddy said:
Zeriel said:
The canon end of game event has nothing to do with the Endless, it is your faction leaving the planet in SPASS SHEEPZ before it wipes out all life (it is going through a tectonic cataclycsm or something along those lines, that's why the winters are harsh and etc).
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that? The Wild Walker questline is about exploring ruins and the cyclical nature of things, and the picture of the end of eras is a lone, weird, tornado thing attacking a castle.
Click to expand...

That's straight from the developers. The last tier of tech is stuff approaching the understanding of spaceflight. Also, keep in mind the Vaulters are in Endless Space, so we know at least one faction got off the planet. AFAIR they are supposed to ALL be embryonic version of possible factions in Endless Space, though, the whole thing is circular. Presumedly some people stay behind and die as the planet suffers cataclysmic disturbances.
Click to expand...
Yeah. The canon victors of Endless Legend are the vaulters, because their lore in Space mentions how they came from Auriga, plus the hero Opbot from Dungeon of the Endless is found lying dead in a cave by them however many hundreds/whatever years later and is reactivated, and he's still kicking around with them in Endless Space too and is trying to find Auriga again.

There are a few other survivors from Auriga in ES (There's one broken lord in ES IIRC) but vaulters are the only ones who completely survived. It's possible that the parallels between some ES and EL races are because of the Endless fucking around, and the ES versions are the "Perfected" versions while the ones on Auriga were earlier prototypes. Like the harmony and silics, the necrophages and cravers, the EL birdmen and the Hissho, possibly even the native humans on Auriga (Sisters of mercy, roaming clans) and the humans in ES, etc. The TLDR quick rundown of the Endless was the became impossibly powerful mostly because of their super nanomahines (The dust) and reached the point where they couldn't even die because they were able to store consciousness in computers perfectly and then put it into new bodies. Time passes, they become the concrete and virtual Endless. Concrete being the ones that tend to stay physical, virtual being the ones that go hog wild and live in computers and/or live and use an infinite number of bodies. Society crumbles because they get ridiculously decadent being able to do whatever the fuck they want, civil war breaks out, the virtuals kill the concrete with nanomachines and the concrete kill the virtuals with mass EMP shit. Basically nothing but dust and ruins left except for the one virtual Endless and the one concrete Endless in ES. The cultists in EL are just robots that went crazy after hundreds of thousands/millions of years by themselves. Not sure how long Auriga would've been abandoned by the Endless until the start of DotE and/or EL.

Presumably Endless tech that allowed for vitual Endless was how the broken lords in EL became dust beings, too. Though they don't know how to use it well enough to create actual bodies like the Endless could. Amplitude fluff is too fun.
 
Blaine

Blaine

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First actual game and first win, on Normal with a Large map and 4 other factions, otherwise default settings. Someone ate the Necrophages before the halfway point of the game (Broken Lords, I think, since the score graph shows them getting a bump up as the Necrophages got eliminated). I made peace and later allied with with the Sex Elves (the Wild Walkers fuck like rabbits on meth and crap out cities left and right) very early in the game, and maintained that alliance until they eventually got jealous and butthurt. It worked out well, because between the two of us, we held the center of the map. For the last 1/3 of the game, I was at peace with the Wild Walkers and Cultists, which is good because I really needed the trade routes.

Up until the Broken Lords attacked me, I didn't know if I could snatch a win. Early on, I was continually harassed by patrols from unsubdued villages, and handled them bumblingly since I'm new to the game; by early midgame, I was frantically trying to make room in the queues to build Settlers to plop down a few more cities, having noticed that everyone but the Cultists had more than I did. The Broken Lords were my #1 technology rival, and quite powerful. They didn't like being hemmed in by my borders, so they sent some dudes to attack. I reluctantly detached my science hero (kek) from my capital, and, slowly at first, proceeded to kill their dudes and devour each of their cities one by one. That's when the game turned in my favor, not surprisingly, since I eliminated a tech rival and got all their stuff.

That's a science victory done. I might try for a diplomatic one with the Drakken next game, then crank up the difficulty since I'll be well used to the game by then.

A few notes: The way sieges work seemed pretty obnoxious, even once I got used to them. Maybe it's just that it's so different from what I'm used to. Also, I'm not sure what the deal is with NPCs demanding 14 technologies in exchange for 1 of theirs, even if I offer them high-tier stuff in exchange for low-tier. In fact, diplomacy in general is ludicrously skewed in the NPCs' favor, other than basic stuff like forming alliances and declaring war. If you just want to trade resources and luxuries, prepare to pay $5,000 for a stick of gum. Most memorable was when I thought I'd show mercy to the Broken Lords, and offered them a truce when they were down to their last city. It took me a while of messing around in the diplomacy screen to realize with astonishment that THEY wanted an absolute fortune from ME in order to ratify the truce.

Prior to that, they did offer me tiny pittances in exchange for a truce now and then. They still died. Demanding large tributes from cowed enemies apparently isn't allowed in Endless Legend.

Also, the unit customization/iteration mechanics are pretty cool. They're fairly limited and nothing like all-out customized ships in GalCivII (for example), but much appreciated. Ranged seems to have an advantage over melee because melee has to (and will; you can't hold them back) run into the fight and start swinging immediately. Ranged can pick off weaker stuff and even closely-matched stuff while taking significantly less or no damage, in many cases. I'm still not sure what to make of the combat, but it's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be from all the moaning earlier in this thread. I started using Auto-Resolve almost all the time, though, especially when the odds were heavily in my favor.

Overall, a pretty rad, slick, and crunchy 4X, certainly many steps above Civ V and with a much more interesting and immersive theme. The micromanagement is absolutely insane with a large empire, but pretty much par for the course. Not even the holy SMAC avoids being cumbersome as fuck late in the game. It's inevitable with such large empires, especially if you don't trust the AI governors.

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Self-Ejected

AngryEddy

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Joined
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Messages
3,596
Location
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Blaine said:
The micromanagement is absolutely insane with a large empire, but pretty much par for the course. Not even the holy SMAC avoids being cumbersome as fuck late in the game. It's inevitable with such large empires, especially if you don't trust the AI governors.
Click to expand...

Here's my thoughts on the manner:

"1. Automate governors for one of the 3 skill trees so the player doesn't have to constantly level up 30 different governors every few turns. Also, allow the same thing for item purchases, so the player doesn't have to buy the same 3 passive +DUST, +INFLUENCE, +FOOD items.

2. Allow the AI to quick buy buildings if the player allows it for whatever city.

3. Allow the player to tell the AI to stick all of the population in whatever resource tree, seperate from the already present automation options. There is nothing more frustrating than tell the AI to auto build buildings, but then they start messing around with my population."
 
Zboj Lamignat

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,778
I finished my first couple of games and have no idea why people here were going on about AI being docile (played on hard so far). It wants to wage wars with me all the time, I was playing peacefully and tried to be nice as I wanted to learn and enjoy the different mechanics but no chance. Even the sandnigger traders wanted to kill me if only they could, it was evident by the messages and cold war I was getting from them all the time. Honestly, as Blaine said, the diplomacy seems completely pointless at this moment, the AI always wants something from you so you give them a technology or two and use influence that can be spent on empire plans to sign a trade agreement and then after a few turns they break it and declare cold war for no fucking reason whatsoever.

It's true that they aren't too difficult to beat though, at least on that difficulty. Cultists are definitely the most irritating opponent since when they surprise we war you, they usually manage to attack and instaraze at least one city before you can muster reinforcements and depending on which city they choose it can hurt a lot. Also, it seems to me that the "take all capitals" victory is way too easy to achieve, especially if you're 1:1 with a very strong opponent, it's enough to know where his capital is (which you can get instantly by fooling them into sharing the map with lots of gifts) and then you just beeline for it with a strong army ignoring everything else and voila.

But apart from the schizophrenic AI this is my goty so far and definitely best 4x game in a long, long time. Hope it gets a proper expansion.
 
Last edited:
Blaine

Blaine

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The AI wasn't so bizarre during my first game. The choices they made seemed to make sense, e.g. the Broken Lords wiping out the aggressive Necrophages and later attacking me for preventing their expansion (they warned me about "encroaching" a number of turns beforehand); the Wild Walkers accepting an alliance with a benign and (at the time) weaker faction, then downgrading that to peace when I began to surpass them; and the Cultists suing for peace with two other factions that could easily wipe them out.

Perhaps it's something to do with difficulty. You can find the difficulty settings in the game folder:

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Code: 
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<Datatable xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">

  <!-- ################################################## AI ################################################## -->
  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultyNewbieAIMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationPropertyDescriptors>
      <SimulationPropertyDescriptor Name="AIResearchCostReduction"   MinValue="Negative"/>
      <SimulationPropertyDescriptor Name="AIEmpirePlanCostReduction" MinValue="Negative"/>
    </SimulationPropertyDescriptors>
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- Approval -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeCenter"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeExtension"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityExpansionDisapproval"             Operation="Percent"         Value="0.25"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIResearchCostReduction"              Operation="Addition"        Value="-0.1"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIEmpirePlanCostReduction"            Operation="Addition"        Value="-0.1"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityGrowth"                           Operation="Addition"        Value="-0.1"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity"/>
      <!--<SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                   Operation="Subtraction"     Value="2.5"   Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeExtension"/>-->
      <!-- City Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityCityPoint"                        Operation="Percent"         Value="0"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIUnitProductionCostReduction"        Operation="Addition"        Value="-0.1"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIBuildingProductionCostReduction"    Operation="Addition"        Value="-0.1"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIBuildingBuyoutCostReduction"        Operation="Addition"        Value="-0.1"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIUnitBuyoutCostReduction"            Operation="Addition"        Value="-0.1"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseFoodPerPopulation"                Operation="Subtraction"     Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseIndustryPerPopulation"            Operation="Subtraction"     Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseSciencePerPopulation"             Operation="Subtraction"     Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseDustPerPopulation"                Operation="Subtraction"     Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseCityPointPerPopulation"           Operation="Subtraction"     Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- Search Modifier : no quests until the AI can do them correctly -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsTriggeringAQuest"        Operation="Multiplication"  Value="0"     Priority="2" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsLooting"                 Operation="Subtraction"     Value="40"    Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>

    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>
  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultyEasyAIMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- Approval -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeCenter"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeExtension"/>

      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsTriggeringAQuest"        Operation="Multiplication"  Value="0"     Priority="2" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsLooting"                 Operation="Subtraction"     Value="40"    Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>

      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityCityPoint"                        Operation="Percent"         Value="0"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>

  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultyNormalAIMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- Approval -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeCenter"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeExtension"/>

      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsTriggeringAQuest"        Operation="Multiplication"  Value="0"     Priority="2" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsLooting"                 Operation="Subtraction"     Value="40"    Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>

      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityCityPoint"                        Operation="Percent"         Value="0"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>

  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultyHardAIMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationPropertyDescriptors>
      <SimulationPropertyDescriptor Name="AIResearchCostReduction"   MinValue="Negative"/>
      <SimulationPropertyDescriptor Name="AIEmpirePlanCostReduction" MinValue="Negative"/>
    </SimulationPropertyDescriptors>
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- Empire Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="TotalCityMoneyUpkeep"                 Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.2" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="EmpireMoneyUpkeep"                    Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.2" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <!-- Approval -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeCenter"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeExtension"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityExpansionDisapproval"             Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.2" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIResearchCostReduction"              Operation="Addition"        Value="0.15"   Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIEmpirePlanCostReduction"            Operation="Addition"        Value="0.2"   Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityGrowth"                           Operation="Addition"        Value="0.2"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- City Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityCityPoint"                        Operation="Percent"         Value="0.20"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIUnitProductionCostReduction"        Operation="Addition"        Value="0.2"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIBuildingProductionCostReduction"    Operation="Addition"        Value="0.2"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIBuildingBuyoutCostReduction"        Operation="Addition"        Value="0.2"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIUnitBuyoutCostReduction"            Operation="Addition"        Value="0.2"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <!--  City Modifier :  Bonus Per Pop -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseFoodPerPopulation"                Operation="Addition"        Value="0.25"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseIndustryPerPopulation"            Operation="Addition"        Value="0.25"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseSciencePerPopulation"             Operation="Addition"        Value="0.25"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseDustPerPopulation"                Operation="Addition"        Value="0.25"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseCityPointPerPopulation"           Operation="Addition"        Value="0.25"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- Strategic Resrouce Bonus -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic1"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="0.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic2"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="0.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic3"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="0.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic4"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="0.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic5"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="0.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic6"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="0.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <!-- Search Modifier : no quests until the AI can do them correctly -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsTriggeringAQuest"        Operation="Multiplication"  Value="0"     Priority="2" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsLooting"                 Operation="Subtraction"     Value="40"    Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>
      <!-- Army Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="ControlledByMajorAI" Operation="Addition" Value="0.25" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/Garrison/ClassUnit"/>
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>

  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultySeriousAIMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationPropertyDescriptors>
      <SimulationPropertyDescriptor Name="AIResearchCostReduction"   MinValue="Negative"/>
      <SimulationPropertyDescriptor Name="AIEmpirePlanCostReduction" MinValue="Negative"/>
    </SimulationPropertyDescriptors>
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- Empire Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="TotalCityMoneyUpkeep"                    Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.35" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="EmpireMoneyUpkeep"                       Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.35" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <!-- Approval -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeCenter"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeExtension"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityExpansionDisapproval"             Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.35" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIResearchCostReduction"              Operation="Addition"        Value="0.2"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIEmpirePlanCostReduction"            Operation="Addition"        Value="0.35"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityGrowth"                           Operation="Addition"        Value="0.35"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- City Modifier -->
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      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIBuildingProductionCostReduction"    Operation="Addition"        Value="0.35"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
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      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIUnitBuyoutCostReduction"            Operation="Addition"        Value="0.35"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
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      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseIndustryPerPopulation"            Operation="Addition"        Value="0.5"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseSciencePerPopulation"             Operation="Addition"        Value="0.5"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseDustPerPopulation"                Operation="Addition"        Value="0.5"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseCityPointPerPopulation"           Operation="Addition"        Value="0.5"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- Strategic Resrouce Bonus -->
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      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic2"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="1"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic3"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="1"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic4"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="1"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic5"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="1"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic6"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="1"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <!-- Search Modifier : no quests until the AI can do them correctly -->
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      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsLooting"                 Operation="Subtraction"     Value="40"    Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>
      <!-- Army Modifier -->
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    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>

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    </SimulationPropertyDescriptors>
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- Empire Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="TotalCityMoneyUpkeep"                    Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.5" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="EmpireMoneyUpkeep"                    Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.5" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <!-- Approval -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeCenter"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"         Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeExtension"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityExpansionDisapproval"             Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.5" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIResearchCostReduction"              Operation="Addition"        Value="0.25"   Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIEmpirePlanCostReduction"            Operation="Addition"        Value="0.5"   Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityGrowth"                           Operation="Addition"        Value="0.5"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- City Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityCityPoint"                        Operation="Percent"         Value="0.5"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIUnitProductionCostReduction"        Operation="Addition"        Value="0.6"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIBuildingProductionCostReduction"    Operation="Addition"        Value="0.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIBuildingBuyoutCostReduction"        Operation="Addition"        Value="0.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIUnitBuyoutCostReduction"            Operation="Addition"        Value="0.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <!--  City Modifier:  Bonus Per Pop -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseFoodPerPopulation"                Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseIndustryPerPopulation"            Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseSciencePerPopulation"             Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseDustPerPopulation"                Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseCityPointPerPopulation"           Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- Strategic Resrouce Bonus -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic1"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="1.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic2"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="1.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic3"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="1.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic4"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="1.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic5"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="1.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic6"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="1.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <!-- Search Modifier : no quests until the AI can do them correctly -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsTriggeringAQuest"        Operation="Multiplication"  Value="0"     Priority="2" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsLooting"                 Operation="Addition"     Value="40"    Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>
      <!-- Army Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="ExperienceRewardAtCreation"           Operation="Addition"        Value="10"    Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity/ClassUnit"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="ExperienceRewardAtCreation"           Operation="Percent"         Value="0.5"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity/ClassUnit"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="ExperienceGainPerTurn"                Operation="Percent"         Value="0.5"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison/ClassUnit"/>

      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="ControlledByMajorAI" Operation="Addition" Value="0.75" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/Garrison/ClassUnit"/>
  
  
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>

  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultyEndlessAIMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationPropertyDescriptors>
      <SimulationPropertyDescriptor Name="AIResearchCostReduction"   MinValue="Negative"/>
      <SimulationPropertyDescriptor Name="AIEmpirePlanCostReduction" MinValue="Negative"/>
    </SimulationPropertyDescriptors>
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- Empire Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="EmpireMoneyUpkeep"                       Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.7" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="TotalCityMoneyUpkeep"                    Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.7" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <!-- Approval -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"        Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeCenter"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                         Operation="Addition"        Value="10" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeExtension"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityExpansionDisapproval"             Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.6" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIResearchCostReduction"              Operation="Addition"        Value="0.3"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIEmpirePlanCostReduction"            Operation="Addition"        Value="0.6"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityGrowth"                           Operation="Addition"        Value="0.6"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- City Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityCityPoint"                        Operation="Percent"         Value="0.6"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIUnitProductionCostReduction"        Operation="Addition"        Value="0.7"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIBuildingProductionCostReduction"    Operation="Addition"        Value="0.6"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIBuildingBuyoutCostReduction"        Operation="Addition"        Value="0.6"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AIUnitBuyoutCostReduction"            Operation="Addition"        Value="0.6"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- City Modifier: Bonus Per Pop -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseFoodPerPopulation"                Operation="Addition"        Value="2"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseIndustryPerPopulation"            Operation="Addition"        Value="2"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseSciencePerPopulation"             Operation="Addition"        Value="2"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseDustPerPopulation"                Operation="Addition"        Value="2"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseCityPointPerPopulation"           Operation="Addition"        Value="2"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- Strategic Resrouce Bonus -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic1"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="2"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic2"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="2"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic3"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="2"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic4"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="2"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic5"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="2"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="NetStrategic6"                        Operation="Percent"        Value="2"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire"/> 
  
      <!-- Search Modifier : no quests until the AI can do them correctly -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsTriggeringAQuest"        Operation="Multiplication"  Value="0"     Priority="2" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="Interact_OddsLooting"                 Operation="Addition"     Value="40"    Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassArmy"/>
      <!-- Army Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="ExperienceRewardAtCreation"           Operation="Addition"        Value="10"    Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity/ClassUnit"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="ExperienceRewardAtCreation"           Operation="Percent"         Value="1"   Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity/ClassUnit"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="ExperienceGainPerTurn"                Operation="Percent"         Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison/ClassUnit"/>
  
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="ControlledByMajorAI"                  Operation="Addition"       Value="1"                  Path="EmpireTypeMajor/Garrison/ClassUnit"/>
  
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>

  <!-- ################################################# HUMAN ################################################# -->
  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultyNewbieHumanMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- Approval -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityExpansionDisapproval"       Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.25" Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                   Operation="Addition"        Value="5"     Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeExtension"/>
      <!-- City Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityFood"                       Operation="Percent"         Value="0.20"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityIndustry"                   Operation="Percent"         Value="0.20"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityScience"                    Operation="Percent"         Value="0.20"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityDust"                       Operation="Percent"         Value="0.20"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityCityPoint"                  Operation="Percent"         Value="0.20"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityFood"                       Operation="Addition"        Value="2"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityIndustry"                   Operation="Addition"        Value="2"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityScience"                    Operation="Addition"        Value="2"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityDust"                       Operation="Addition"        Value="2"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseFoodPerPopulation"          Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseIndustryPerPopulation"      Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseSciencePerPopulation"       Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseDustPerPopulation"          Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="BaseCityPointPerPopulation"     Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- Garrison/Army -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="MilitaryUpkeep"                 Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.50" Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="HeroUpkeep"                     Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.25" Priority="2" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison/UnitHero"/>
      <!-- Army Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="MaximumHealth"                  Operation="Percent"         Value="0.20"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison/ClassUnit"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AttributeAttack"                Operation="Percent"         Value="0.20"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison/ClassUnit"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="AttributeDefense"               Operation="Percent"         Value="0.20"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison/ClassUnit"/>
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>
  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultyEasyHumanMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- City Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityFood"                       Operation="Percent"         Value="0.10"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityIndustry"                   Operation="Percent"         Value="0.10"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityScience"                    Operation="Percent"         Value="0.10"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityDust"                       Operation="Percent"         Value="0.10"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityCityPoint"                  Operation="Percent"         Value="0.10"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityFood"                       Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityIndustry"                   Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityScience"                    Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityDust"                       Operation="Addition"        Value="1"     Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/ClassCity"/>
      <!-- Garrison/Army -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="MilitaryUpkeep"                 Operation="Percent"         Value="-0.25" Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison"/>
      <!-- Army Modifier -->
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="MaximumHealth"                  Operation="Percent"         Value="0.10"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison/ClassUnit"/>
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>

  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultyNormalHumanMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>

  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultyHardHumanMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>

  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultySeriousHumanMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- Approval
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityExpansionDisapproval"       Operation="Percent"         Value="0.15"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>-->
      <!-- Garrison/Army
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="MilitaryUpkeep"                 Operation="Percent"         Value="0.25"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison"/>-->
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>

  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultyImpossibleHumanMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- Approval
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityExpansionDisapproval"       Operation="Percent"         Value="0.30"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>-->
      <!-- Garrison/Army
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="MilitaryUpkeep"                 Operation="Percent"         Value="0.50"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="HeroUpkeep"                     Operation="Percent"         Value="0.25"  Priority="2" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison/UnitHero"/>-->
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>

  <SimulationDescriptor Name="GameDifficultyEndlessHumanMajorEmpire" Type="GameDifficultyBonus">
    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>
      <!-- Approval
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityExpansionDisapproval"       Operation="Percent"         Value="0.45"  Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="CityApproval"                   Operation="Subtraction"     Value="5"     Priority="1" Path="EmpireTypeMajor/ClassCity/DistrictTypeExtension"/>-->
      <!-- Garrison/Army
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="MilitaryUpkeep"                 Operation="Percent"         Value="1.00"  Priority="1" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison"/>
      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="HeroUpkeep"                     Operation="Percent"         Value="0.50"  Priority="2" Path="ClassEmpire/Garrison/UnitHero"/>-->
    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>
  </SimulationDescriptor>
</Datatable>

Personally, I tend to find higher difficulty settings in most 4X games obnoxious rather than challenging, since they're almost always based on penalties to players and bonuses to the AI. The handicaps tend to make building up your own empire agonizing while the enemies, being computer AIs, can take full advantage of their own bonuses, micromanage all their stuff with no problem at all, iterate the crap out of their armies, etc. Of course, they have disadvantages as well, again, being computer AIs.

Some high difficulties also make rivals more aggressive, which might be the case in Endless Legend as well. Certainly, minor factions are aggressive regardless, which is an early-game nuisance.

The only "perfect" higher difficulty would be better AI without any additional penalties to the player or bonuses to the AIs, but that would be silly because you want your best AI already present in standard difficulties.
 
Last edited:
Zboj Lamignat

Zboj Lamignat

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AI getting butthurt about player expanding to share borders with them is pretty strange for this game, since you need borders for trade (unless I understood something wrongly) and there is economic victory as well as economic/dust-driven factions. I'm ok with having warlike factions that just want to see the world burn, but honestly, when I want to trade with a trading faction, give them gifts to sign a treaty, never attack them and they just casually tell me to fuck off it's pretty dumb. More so when you factor in the fact that the influence points can be spent to upgrade your empire and you need a lot of them for the higher tier bonuses.

I liked Vaulters most from the races I tried so far (the other were Broken Lords and the Twi'Leks). I see that they don't get a lot of love, but science factions are usually my favourite in 4x and their teleportation ability is a godsend for lifting the sieges after all the unexpected war declarations.

Btw, can Cultists rebuild burnt villages that are outside of their capital region? If not it would be ridiculously easy to cripple them.
 
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AngryEddy

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Just so you guys know, don't be afraid to sell your resource stockpiles, they make a metric fuckton of dust [Something like 1400 for the first few sales], especially early on. It can put you like 20 turns ahead of your opponents, especially as a military faction like Cultists.
 
Hobo Elf

Hobo Elf

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baturinsky said:
Zboj Lamignat said:
Btw, can Cultists rebuild burnt villages that are outside of their capital region? If not it would be ridiculously easy to cripple them.
Click to expand...
They can, but it costs a huge amount of Influence.
Click to expand...

I would like to know what affects the influence cost of converting minor villages to your cause. The influence cost is a roller coaster ride where it keeps going up and down.
 
baturinsky

baturinsky

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Hobo Elf said:
I would like to know what affects the influence cost of converting minor villages to your cause. The influence cost is a roller coaster ride where it keeps going up and down.
Click to expand...
It seems it depends on how many villages you have already, and then doubled if this one is destroyed.
 
Hobo Elf

Hobo Elf

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baturinsky said:
Hobo Elf said:
I would like to know what affects the influence cost of converting minor villages to your cause. The influence cost is a roller coaster ride where it keeps going up and down.
Click to expand...
It seems it depends on how many villages you have already, and then doubled if this one is destroyed.
Click to expand...

That's what it seems, yes, but I've converted villages in consecutive turns and paid less influence in the latter turn. That's what I don't understand. I thought maybe the distance of the village from your city might have something to do with it, but I doubt it and I haven't gone back to try it out.
 
Blaine

Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
I haven't played Cultists for real yet (they were my choice during my abortive first game), although I plan to, but I have a hard time seeing that +1 max district level and some converted villages make up for five or six opponent cities, let alone a dozen or more. Guess you don't want to play Cultists at all on huge maps with few factions. They ended up being everyone else's good little gimp bitch on the Large map I played.
 
baturinsky

baturinsky

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Each assimilated village gives a pop, works 7 tiles around it, and generate units, that you can sell for quite nice cash.
Cultists still sucks, though.

Vaulters, on the other hand, are ridiculously good. No wonder they are canon winners.
 
Hobo Elf

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Eh, Cultists are mad powerful. Keep in mind that each minor faction you convert is shitting out new units every X amount of turns. When your villages are hovering at the 20 mark you are getting a shitton of units that you can sell to slavery for huge megabucks, or just zerg with them. Also do not underestimate the power of one mega city. First things first: Cultist is the only faction who's city tiles can go up to level 3, everyone else is capped at 2. That alone gives you a huge bonus. Also, the more people you have in your city (not hard given that one converted village = 1 extra pop for your capital) the faster you get even more people and the faster you can make your city even bigger. They are a faction that really wear the term snowballing like a glove. The amount of resources that their single town can shit out is truly amazing. Keep in mind also that you don't need many towns to produce troops. If you can buyout them all they will all be produced on the same turn. Slap in your Cultist as your Governor and his % bonuses to city production just make resource production rocket even higher up. It's crazy.

Vaulters are good when they get into mid-late game, but early they really, really suck, which makes them a piss poor choice for a game played on the highest difficulty. Their bonus research is initially kinda useless because they get tech faster than their production can keep up with, not to mention that they will get new research eras faster than their influence can keep up meaning that they will be weaker than anyone else when it comes to city development plans. Their units are pure shit as well and their hero is nothing to write home about. The combat tree isn't bad, identical to the Wild Walker one, but his governor abilities are horrible. I dig the not-space marine look of them, though. Their ability to use strategic resources as "luxury" items is quite powerful as well, although very costly when you have a large empire.
 
baturinsky

baturinsky

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What does borough level give?
Also, instead of 20 assimilated villages, normal civ would have 10-20 cities.
 
Hobo Elf

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Not only do leveled boroughs give you happiness but they also give you a bonus to resource production. Having 10-20 cities isn't inherently better than one mega city. Realistically speaking they will all be hovering mostly at the 8-15 pop mark which means that their production will be rather insignificant. Compare it with a cultist capital that has 50 pop. and it's not impossible to stand with them on equal grounds in production, if not outright out produce them. It is a lot cheaper to use luxury items with the cultist as well so it is easy to have them all activated at all times which just adds a new layer to their resource generation, warfare ability and all around well being.
 
baturinsky

baturinsky

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Hobo Elf said:
It is a lot cheaper to use luxury items with the cultist as well so it is easy to have them all activated at all times which just adds a new layer to their resource generation, warfare ability and all around well being.
Click to expand...
But how do you get luxuries and minerals as cultists outside of your home province? By trade?
 
Hobo Elf

Hobo Elf

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Trade, yeah. Sell those minors into slavery and buy lavish luxury items for your devoted followers back home. +M
Minerals you used to have to buy as well, but at some point they added a change so that minor factions also generate a small amount of strategic resource. We are talking about 0.1, 0.2 and maybe even 0.3 (haven't seen how big it can go), but it does add up when you have lots of minors. You'll still probably need to trade some, but that's what it's there for.
 
Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
It took me until damned near the end of my first game to realize that my booster cost was rising by 5 according to each city I'd founded. Before that, I thought it was based on turns elapsed, or era. I just hadn't thought much about it at all, other than to note I'd need to stockpile more and more.

Also, I forgot about teleportation playing the Mezari and never used it even a single time. :lol:

Indeed, the need for a mere 5 luxury resources at endgame is an absolutely tremendous advantage. There are a ton of others, such as less micromanagement, ease of defense (especially considering that the Queen's Seat can be excellently fortified), not needing to worry about populating a bunch of garrisons (though you may want to defend your villages, which, if you have 20 villages, may be a nightmare to attempt), etc.
 
Jigawatt

Jigawatt

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Hobo Elf said:
Trade, yeah. Sell those minors into slavery and buy lavish luxury items for your devoted followers back home. +M
Minerals you used to have to buy as well, but at some point they added a change so that minor factions also generate a small amount of strategic resource. We are talking about 0.1, 0.2 and maybe even 0.3 (haven't seen how big it can go), but it does add up when you have lots of minors. You'll still probably need to trade some, but that's what it's there for.
Click to expand...

I believe that the generation is based on the number of resources in the region the faction's in - ie if the region has a titanium and 2 glassteel deposits you'll get 0.1 and 0.2 per turn respectively.

Edit: Just had another go at playing cultists, and this effects luxury resources as well
 
Last edited:
Zboj Lamignat

Zboj Lamignat

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Hobo Elf said:
Eh, Cultists are mad powerful. Keep in mind that each minor faction you convert is shitting out new units every X amount of turns. When your villages are hovering at the 20 mark you are getting a shitton of units that you can sell to slavery for huge megabucks, or just zerg with them. Also do not underestimate the power of one mega city. First things first: Cultist is the only faction who's city tiles can go up to level 3, everyone else is capped at 2. That alone gives you a huge bonus. Also, the more people you have in your city (not hard given that one converted village = 1 extra pop for your capital) the faster you get even more people and the faster you can make your city even bigger. They are a faction that really wear the term snowballing like a glove. The amount of resources that their single town can shit out is truly amazing. Keep in mind also that you don't need many towns to produce troops. If you can buyout them all they will all be produced on the same turn. Slap in your Cultist as your Governor and his % bonuses to city production just make resource production rocket even higher up. It's crazy.

Vaulters are good when they get into mid-late game, but early they really, really suck, which makes them a piss poor choice for a game played on the highest difficulty. Their bonus research is initially kinda useless because they get tech faster than their production can keep up with, not to mention that they will get new research eras faster than their influence can keep up meaning that they will be weaker than anyone else when it comes to city development plans. Their units are pure shit as well and their hero is nothing to write home about. The combat tree isn't bad, identical to the Wild Walker one, but his governor abilities are horrible. I dig the not-space marine look of them, though. Their ability to use strategic resources as "luxury" items is quite powerful as well, although very costly when you have a large empire.
Click to expand...
Admittedly I've not played a full Cultist game at this point, but I played for around 30h with different races and faced them and I don't really believe what you're writing here. Seems to me that for the Cultists to work their opposition has to be extremely passive in both expansion and warfare, otherwise it's piss easy to cripple (through village raiding) and envelop them.

I'm not that sure about the availability of the resources either, what with the market prices and AIs general unwillingness to cooperate, even when you take the low booster cost into consideration. I had no problems with keeping boosters up all the time with big empire the bonuses they give is just crazy +50% production/science/food/constant top happiness for all your cities lol wtf gg, Vaulters' strategic boosters are just added overkill.

And what's so bad about Vaulter units? They start with ranged, best option, while Cult starts with support, worst option by far, especially considering that you probably want to make your hero a governor in order to not fall behind expanding opponents almost immediately.

Actually the most dangerous weapon in their arsenal seems to be the fact that they instaraze cities on successful assault, this can really hurt your opponents if you manage to rush them. But later on I don't see them having a chance against a player of similar skill, especially since the unupgraded village units are any good in second era tops, later on just pointless cannon fodder.
 
Hobo Elf

Hobo Elf

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Zboj Lamignat said:
Admittedly I've not played a full Cultist game at this point, but I played for around 30h with different races and faced them and I don't really believe what you're writing here.
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Faced against who? The AI which we have established already is pretty inept, or another player playing as the Cultist? That makes all the difference, really. The AI isn't smart enough to use the unique flavors of all the factions.

Seems to me that for the Cultists to work their opposition has to be extremely passive in both expansion and warfare, otherwise it's piss easy to cripple (through village raiding) and envelop them.
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Your enemies can't just expand like crazy right off the bat, there is happiness to consider and loss of unhappy cities lead to decline in food and industry production. Having more cities is worthless when they are all too unhappy to progress with anything. By the time enemies can start expanding further than the initial 2-3 regions you should be able to counter them and be able to go and raze their new settlements. It should be early enough for the minor village units to still be enough of a threat so you can start harassing the enemy with them.

There's only one faction who can expand like no tomorrow without a care for happiness and it's the Broken Lords, but that's ok. The different factions are meant to one up each other.

I'm not that sure about the availability of the resources either, what with the market prices and AIs general unwillingness to cooperate
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Now I'm not even sure if we are playing the same game anymore. Market prices are what they are, they get exponentially more expensive but you get exponentially more money as well. It's not a final solution, but it is a very important and strategic tool to use. I've never found the AI to be unwilling, though. In fact I find it all too easy to exploit. You steal / sack a few of their cities, wait a few turns and then offer peace while demanding all their strategic resource. It never fails. The AI is less likely to give you any tech unless you are willing to trade something yourself, but they will give you stacks of 300 glassteel like it's candy.

I had no problems with keeping boosters up all the time with big empire the bonuses they give is just crazy +50% production/science/food/constant top happiness for all your cities lol wtf gg, Vaulters' strategic boosters are just added overkill.
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I usually have no problems either, at the mid-end game when I've conquered more than half the provinces. Cultists can do it from Turn 1 without stopping at any point. Therein lies the difference.

And what's so bad about Vaulter units? They start with ranged, best option, while Cult starts with support, worst option by far, especially considering that you probably want to make your hero a governor in order to not fall behind expanding opponents almost immediately.
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Marines aren't the best option by virtue of being ranged. Here's a unit breakdown:

Marines have 68 HP, 47 Attack, 31 Defence, 21 Initiative and do 34 Damage.

Wild Walker Dekari Ranger's have 60 HP, 58 Attack, 19 Defence, 38 Initiative and do 32 damage.

The Dekari Rangers simply blow the Marines out of the water as far as ranged units go. The only stats that really matter in the early game are Initiative and Attack, which the Vaulters suck at. Their low health and low initiative means that pretty much every single unit is going to move before they do, and they are going to squish them easily like bugs. Low Attack means that at higher difficulties you are going to be doing 0 damage per attack quite often, which is the infuriating way to a swift end.

Now why didn't I compare Vaulters to Cultists you may ask? Well, one reason is to show you that Vaulter Marines are early on very shit, but also simply because there is no question that Cultist units are horrible as well, which is why you aren't meant to go fighting around with them. There's a very specific reason why the Cultists begin with the Bribe and Parley tech and the reason is that you use those tools early on instead of trying to fight everyone. :M

Actually the most dangerous weapon in their arsenal seems to be the fact that they instaraze cities on successful assault, this can really hurt your opponents if you manage to rush them. But later on I don't see them having a chance against a player of similar skill, especially since the unupgraded village units are any good in second era tops, later on just pointless cannon fodder.
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It is a very useful ability to instaraze towns. You don't need to worry about defending bigger important cities and not letting the enemy to retake them back. They simply lose everything and every loss for them is a gain for the Cultist.
As for village units, keep in mind that each era gives your units a +1 to their initial level when produced, this also affects minors. It also makes them more valuable each era which means that you will get more and more money for selling them. The techs that unlock more garrisson space affects the minor villages as well!

Give the Cultists a try, brah. You know you'll love them.
 
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