Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Endless Legend, fantasyland trying to fix Endless Space's flaws

baturinsky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
5,623
Location
Russia
It is a very useful ability to instaraze towns. You don't need to worry about defending bigger important cities and not letting the enemy to retake them back. They simply lose everything and every loss for them is a gain for the Cultist.
As for village units, keep in mind that each era gives your units a +1 to their initial level when produced, this also affects minors. It also makes them more valuable each era which means that you will get more and more money for selling them. The techs that unlock more garrisson space affects the minor villages as well!
So, not getting a pre-built city is good because you then don't have to guard it. Awesome logic.

About marines. Is gear giving fixed bonuses, or they scale off basic params? Because in latter case it does not matter much what stats of naked unit were.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,778
Obviously I'm comparing the factions from the point of view of humans with similar skill playing against each other, because it's the only reasonable comparison to make. In HoMM III I can beat Necro and Conflux on impossible difficulty with Fortress 9 times out of 10, but if I was against a human with similar skill it would be ten losses.

I just don't see what's your plan to stop other factions from killing the villages, denying you resources and then just gobbling up all the land so you can't do shit with Cultists, there is literally no plan b. The only option is to rush the living jesus out of others, but I don't think they'll be that good at it, apart from surprise city raze attacks that I admittedly suffered at their hands. I'm not even talking about some specific circumstances, like for example being against the sandniggers, that have the racial ability equalling game over for Cultists before the game starts.

Your enemies can't just expand like crazy right off the bat, there is happiness to consider and loss of unhappy cities lead to decline in food and industry production.
Didn't notice problems with happiness on hard tbf. That's what luxuries are for and they're not a big problem for a faction that can actually expand, but I guess depending on the map seed it can happen that happiness will hamper you a bit.
Now I'm not even sure if we are playing the same game anymore. Market prices are what they are, they get exponentially more expensive but you get exponentially more money as well.
Money that's better spent on buying units and buildings. Also, is it actually possible to have so much money that keeping all the best boosters up all the time is no problem with Cultists like I did with Vaulters or Broken Lords (without spending money)? I will have to check that, but from what I've seen so far it might be problematic.
Cultists can do it from Turn 1 without stopping at any point.
Do they?
Marines aren't the best option by virtue of being ranged. Here's a unit breakdown
Eh, that's a strawman. I didn't say they're great just because they're ranged. I said that starting with ranged army is the best possible option while starting with support is the worst and that's 100% true. Being able to start and win fights from turn 1 is important and yes, you do have to fight as many quests require it and you will be attacked when exploring.
As for village units, keep in mind that each era gives your units a +1 to their initial level when produced, this also affects minors. It also makes them more valuable each era which means that you will get more and more money for selling them.
They're still cannon fodder for equipped and upgraded armies so my point stands.
Give the Cultists a try, brah. You know you'll love them.
Oh, I will for sure, they do sound interesting and I'm planning on playing everybody as this game is sex.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,154
Location
Platypus Planet
So, not getting a pre-built city is good because you then don't have to guard it. Awesome logic.

Yes it is. Your ignorance about warfare is showing now. A common tactic employed in war was razing your own towns just so that the enemy couldn't get it. The same idea and logic applies here as well. Actually, it works better, because Cultists are designed to work with one huge city, so not having any extra cities is a non-issue for them. Other factions are built upon having more than one city and thus outright losing one without any chance of retaking it back can be a painful sting if not an outright devastating blow.

About marines. Is gear giving fixed bonuses, or they scale off basic params? Because in latter case it does not matter much what stats of naked unit were.

It's both. Basic equipment (weapon and armor) give a fixed bonus. Rings, amulets and heroes can give a fixed and % based bonuses to stats. If we decide here and now that it doesn't matter for Marines then it doesn't matter for any unit either. Cultists 2nd tier units are Archers and have far superior base stats to Marines, btw. That means that if we compare both on equal terms the Cultist will come off with the superior ranged units. I haven't really looked at all the ranged units, but Cultists might be the best non-magical ranged units when not considering Dust Bishops or the Ardent Mages Sorceress units (whatever they were called).

Didn't notice problems with happiness on hard tbf. That's what luxuries are for and they're not a big problem for a faction that can actually expand, but I guess depending on the map seed it can happen that happiness will hamper you a bit.

It is entirely up to RNGesus, yes. I've had lots of outright stinker beginnings. Luxuries are there to help boost happiness, but you may not always be in a situatiion where you have access to them. Unless you are a Broken Lord in which case they don't give a shit about food production and probably not so much about industry either and just focus on dust, which is not affected by happines. I think that's crazy and just solidifies how utterly (too) powerful Dust is compared to everything else.

Money that's better spent on buying units and buildings. Also, is it actually possible to have so much money that keeping all the best boosters up all the time is no problem with Cultists like I did with Vaulters or Broken Lords (without spending money)? I will have to check that, but from what I've seen so far it might be problematic.

Ah, but you don't need so much money for buildings since you only have one city. Also keep in mind that you'll be selling stacks of units for 8-10k dust at mid-game.


If you have access to them. Could be that you are shit out of luck and don't have 1st tier luxury items in your region, but such is the nature of the game.

Eh, that's a strawman. I didn't say they're great just because they're ranged. I said that starting with ranged army is the best possible option while starting with support is the worst and that's 100% true. Being able to start and win fights from turn 1 is important and yes, you do have to fight as many quests require it and you will be attacked when exploring.

It's not a strawman because it is absolutely true. There are many minor factions that will slap your shit hard if all you have are Marines. Delvers are pretty much the absolute worst and your beginner Marines can take them on, but have fun trying to subjugate something more badass like the Kazanji. There are quests that require you to fight, true, but in those cases you use option B and bribe them to join you.

They're still cannon fodder for equipped and upgraded armies so my point stands.

Only applies to late game and against other players. The AI is incapable of upgrading their units with any of the meaningful items that require strategic resources. Disregarding that, there is no chance at all of having more than one well equipped army until the player gets to the later stage of the game. It is very resource intensive and expensive to have a fully upgraded army. Add in the fact that you have a ton of cities to manage and a lot of very important buildings cost a buttload of those same resources that you need to upgrade your troops.. Yes there is no denying that they are mooks, that is much of their point, but they are good enough as mooks to raid smaller enemy cities en masse from all sides of their empire. The enemy will be unable to protect all of their cities and militia are shituseless against anything so they should be good enough to raze at least a town or two which is a sufficiently good victory. You just need to do it before people start getting into the era where they can get the good equipment that only requires dust, which should be easy enough. I always fill up my towns with troops that are equipped in that dust gear because it is amazingly effective and perfect for making city defense forces.

Sorry for not having the time to address everything, I should be studying now instead of talking about video games.

Edit: It just occurred to me that I forgot to make one important point about the minor factions: In order for the enemy to take them back they have to declare war against you. For example, my friend playing as a Cultist was just swimming in influence points and always had all city plans maxed out, he also had a shitton of excess points that he used to keep complementing his enemies. This makes sure that they don't declare war against him and if they do, the influence cost is much higher. That means that they will risk losing city development plans due to a large loss of influence.
 
Last edited:

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,778
You can burn them without declaring war just fine though, it's not like other factions need them that much.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,787
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
In a game with numerous human players, I could see Cultists being the first to go every time, due to other players not appreciating their extra workers and accumulated empire bonuses being converted into enemy unit manufacturing facilities.
 
Self-Ejected

AngryEddy

Self-Ejected
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
3,596
Location
Fuzzy Pleasure Palace
Endless Legend add-on announced:

"Visions Of the Unseen add-on will include 10 new side quests! Here's a preview of the artwork our artists have worked on."


"Still related: quest weapons now have awesome special effects. Take a look!"


http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/content.php?506-EL-Add-On-Announced-Visions-of-the-Unseen
attachment.php


attachment.php


attachment.php
 

Stefan Vujovic

Educated
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
93
That's how you treat your customers and that's how you show love for your own property. And their games are getting progressively better...
 
Self-Ejected

AngryEddy

Self-Ejected
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
3,596
Location
Fuzzy Pleasure Palace
And their games are getting progressively better...

Hold on there, I want to be the first here, so I'm gonna plant my flag:

I do enjoy the free content they've been giving since Endless Space and their games in general are fun, but I can tell you as a fan of Amplitude studios that their writing is taking a massive nosedive. Anyone who has played Dungeon of the Endless can see this trend towards silliness and bombing comedy, when they used to have dark, and serious writing.

Here's something from the new add-on coming out for Endless Legend:

1DMDxQo.jpg


mkxOD3k.jpg


ETqGExt.jpg


As you can see, they're trying to add flavor to their faction leaders, but instead of doing that, they are forcing the theme of the factions, to be the character of the faction leaders. "I'm the money guy, and what you're doing looks bad on my TPS reports" fuck you. Alpha Centauri did it right, this just makes me want to vomit.
 
Self-Ejected

AngryEddy

Self-Ejected
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
3,596
Location
Fuzzy Pleasure Palace
If you need further proof, here you go:

http://forums.amplitude-studios.com...ronicles-of-the-Lost-Focus-on-the-new-content

  • Name & Description: Stormbrow - There is a war cry among the Hissho that would roughly translate as, "Come at me!". Stormbrow, a fearsome fighter, was known for her use of this challenge and her near-impervious defences -- as an individual and as a leader of troops. This made her part of an augmentation selection. Though she was one of the 8% that survived, she was not of the remaining 88% that was still good at taking orders...
 

Stefan Vujovic

Educated
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
93
Perhaps, perhaps, but on the other hand i really did enjoy the writting for the Cultist/Broken Lords quest line. Nothing silly, comedic about those two i can assure you :D
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
Maybe they're just having a Creativity Week at the office. I dunno, the main quest lines are very nicely done.
 

Copper

Savant
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
469
That's what the Cult is for - although once I got the mission to kick someone in the face, I just kept killing, converting, restocking my army with disposables and knocking over the next city in the space of one summer, so I didn't get too far with them.
 

Eyeball

Arcane
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
2,541
They really ought to unfuck their AI before even adding more DLC-like stuff to EL.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
Plus they say they're working on the AI on top of this new content, so when the patch hits there'll be AI updates too.
 

Whiran

Magister
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
641
I doubt the AI people have much to do with content creation like this.
You are most likely correct with that doubt.

Besides, a good way to pay for more AI development work is to release a content DLC. The more money that is made the more work that can be done.
 

noplsai

Literate
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
9
Plus they say they're working on the AI on top of this new content, so when the patch hits there'll be AI updates too.
In my long and unfruitful life I have never ever ever ever seen AI updates on released games. Minimal things like tweaking fringe behaviors and huge gamebreaking exploits, yes. But that it actually starts work ok compared to the previous patch state, no. AI is The least invested in area of devment and it will always stay so.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
The Larch. The Larch.

I8MxUkc.jpg



CHANGES AND ADDITIONS
  • Added a new minor faction: the Eyeless Ones.
  • Added new 10 side quests.
  • Added Faction-related diplomatic interactions.
  • Added loading tips.
  • Added the Vaulters' outgame view.
  • Added VFX to the unique quest weapons.
  • Added more data to the save files, in order to allow parsing for league/stats database.

AI
  • Allowed garrisons of AI empires to handle a siege on their own.
  • Improved the battle targeting of AI units.
  • Reduced the Dust and Food stresses, and increased the Industry stress for the AI empires.
  • Increased the importance of Industry when the AI chooses a city spot for its next city.
  • Added the use of the retrofit feature for the AI empires.
  • Improved the way AI empires manage their Empire plan.
  • Improved the way AI empires manage their construction queues.
  • Changed the way AI empires manage their researches: must-have technologies begin with a low heuristic value but increase a lot at each completed research.
  • Added an "after battle" analysis in order to adapt the unit designs of AI empires.
  • Refactored the unit design system used by the AI empires.
  • Improved the management of the "Slayer" abilities by the AI empires in their unit designs.
  • Increased the weights of resources marketplace technology and the assimilation technology for the AI empires.
  • Feedback have prerequisites to avoid strange messages from AI empires (for example: "We appreciate your peaceful behaviour" during a war).
  • Open/Close Borders and Map Exchange/Embargo are now used by AI empires.

BALANCING
  • Drakkens' Force status declarations increase their costs when they are used.
  • Removed the constraints upon land mass from Large and Huge map sizes (issues with too many regions are handled another way by the World generator).
  • Added Morale penalty (-1) to Ranged and Support units when there are enemies around.
  • Decreased by 30% Damage and by 10% Attack values of Ranged units and heroes.
  • Other unit tweaks: WW-Forest Spirit, BL-Infantry, BL-Ryder, AM-Battle Mage, RC-Berzerk, D-Drakkenling, Giant Ogre, Justicere, Ice Warg.
  • Unit capacities: Dark Proof added to Ice Warg, Slightly increased BL-Ryder Life Drain, reduced a bit power of Fire Rain AoE for Witches.
  • Hero default capacities: downgraded from Lv.3 to Lv.2 Industry and Damage boost capacities.
  • Tweaked Luxury Effects: switched Emerald and Grassilk effects, changed Hydromiel effects for Hero Upkeep reduction, slightly reduced Dust Orchid effect.
  • Increased the military technologies' weights of the 4th Era.
  • Tweaked the cost of some custom faction traits.
  • The "We are legion" faction trait requires the Conversion faction trait. Rage wizards technologies are now linked to a faction trait instead of the faction affinity.
  • Added prerequisites on terrain tag water for the shipyard.
  • Changed the descriptions of 4 Luxury Resources (according to their gameplay changes).
  • Changed the position of the "Mindless Slaughter" technology (Necrophages quest reward, Era 4).

BATTLE
  • Added an attack odds panel in battle.
  • Added the possibility to swap the units' positions in battle deployment.
  • Improved the battle targeting rules (decreased cases where units do nothing).
  • Added the battle deployment zone size in the Registry file.
  • The coloured area of the life bar is more visible in battle.
  • The life bar in battle is removed when de-zooming.
  • Reachable and attack tiles are now more visible in the Winter season.
  • Improved the targeting highlight in battle.
  • Clamped min and max Morale bonus from -6 to +6.

GUI
  • The colour palette can now be selected as a game options of the User Interface tab; includes a colour-blind mode that can be edited through the palette.xml file.
  • Added a custom tooltip on the terms' prices that explains what modifiers influence it, in the notification of diplomatic interactions.
  • When a notification is about a warning or a compliment, the contract is displayed for clarification.
  • Added the number of assimilated villages on each minor faction slot.
  • The real number of available assimilation slots is now displayed in the Empire screen (was capped by the number of assimilable minor factions).
  • Added tooltips on the "Army in battle" and "Army locked by other battle" icons.
  • Added a section in the districts tooltips to explain how to level them up.
  • Added the Battle Movement icon in the Unit battle tooltip.
  • Display of the World Seed value in the bottom left corner of the Options screen.
  • Sorted out the pillar faction trait (no arcana use when there are no pillars and set the right pillar price for Ardent Mage).
  • Improved the large version of the spells' icons.

ITEMS
  • Added Mastery Strategic Resource Cost Bonus system: the more you unlock item technologies, the more you get discounts on item strategic resource costs.
  • Increased by 50% strategic cost of items (to improve strategic resources rarity and to partially compensate the new Mastery system that can potentially decrease by 60% the strategic resources costs of items).
  • Increased by 20% Industry and Dust costs of items made of Iron or Dust.

MARKETPLACE
  • Improved the stock management in the marketplace.
  • Added a feature of auto-supply of stockpiles in the marketplace.
  • Reduced a bit the impact of the level up of units on the marketplace.
  • Changed the value of the Sellout Market Tax.
  • Changed values of the marketplace reference prices of stockpiles and heroes.

UNITS AND HEROES
  • Downgraded Industry Efficient and Damage Boost capacities (Hero default capacities).
  • Unit instant heal can now be modded to choose the used resource.
  • Renamed the "Low Damage" ability: now "Warrior Apprentice".
  • Removed Low Damage (Warrior Apprentice) ability of Support units but reduced their base attack values.
  • Sorted abilities to have Range ability on top of the abilities list.


IMPORTANT FIXES
  • Fixed an issue where an assert can be raised by the Trade Routes system (some region was not correctly excluded).
  • Fixed an issue where an assert can be raised when the Roving Clans lose their main city and have some roaming privateers.
  • Fixed an issue where a crash can occur when displaying info about an annihilated army which was a privateer army.
  • Fixed an issue where a crash can occur when loading a save where a unit is mistaken for a hero.
  • Fixed an issue where an unskippable assert is received by the host during gameplay.
  • Fixed an issue where a desync in MP games is caused by AI empires (when manipulating the construction queues).
  • Fixed an issue where audio is muted and audio options have no functionality when booting the title without headset or speakers plugged in.

And we ran out of characters. :) For the complete release notes, please check the official forum[forums.amplitude-studios.com].

Thank you and enjoy!

~Amplitude
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
ITs 50% of on steam now, its worth it now they patched it its the best 4X released this year by far.
 

Elim

Augur
Joined
Feb 15, 2011
Messages
330
Project: Eternity
Was following this for a while, should I get the emperor or normal edition?
Do the extras increase the fun in any way?
 
Last edited:

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
24,093
You know AI work is completely dependent on game design. For example you might need to alter some rules for quality AI, or make rules more complicated. (Simple rules are making for boring AI.)

Creating ad hoc AI for tactical map and other unrelated on strategy map made Shogun 2 so dumb.
 

Copper

Savant
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
469
Rolled a new Drakon game for the update, the tactical odds, etc in battles is nice, shame the battles themselves are slow and suffer from a really laggy, unresponsive UI (If I want to go for some tactical positioning I need to select someone (can't change their order) select someone else, change their order, then change the first person's order too, if needed.)

AI seems better, focussing attacks at least instead of spreading its shit everywhere. Really hates hitting damaging counterattack units like Wyverns, even if they've already used up their action and are weakened enough to be one-hit kills. New Quests are a mixed bag, lore wise - a bit more zany; but they are a little bit more interesting structurally - do x with y, get z

If you're not the Cult, you really are just playing wrong if you don't expand as aggressively as possible - I must have 3 times as many cities as any of the AI factions, although I've hit my limit without buying extra resources / building approval buildings now, so they may start to catch up. Neglecting to expand fast enough in the past left me lagging behind on other games - until I made up the difference by seizing cities / killing everyone. Are the higher difficulty levels fun, or just Civ V productivity boosts for the AI? How does the AI handle world difficulty?
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom