Endless Legend, fantasyland trying to fix Endless Space's flaws

[Suicidal]

Fuck if this had at least AoW level turn based combat and more unique units per faction I'd buy it in an instant. These two things are really putting me off cause I'm a huge combatfag when it comes to these games.

 

[Irenaeus]

Yeah, tactical combat is the only thing that's subpar in this game. More types of units (about 7-8 types per faction) would be awesome too.


Maybe in a expansion?

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

The fewer number of racial units is supposed to encourage you to assimilate the minor factions, which also can influence your choices. You may not want the empire bonus a minor faction gives but you may really want the unit it provides since it fits in well with your racials.
First super small content patch was released today, too. Just a new quest for a new hero/item.
Been playing a little after I took a break from it and it does seem like they improved the AI a bit. Putting up more of a fight on hard, admittedly it's partially because I started 2 provinces away from some necrophages but I had a fairly vicious early war. Ended up turning it around due to teching up to second era and retrofitting all my units with the better gear. Probably still not fully up to snuff but the AI's a bit more active, especially at defending cities.

CHANGES AND ADDITIONS

• Added the mod support
• Added a new side quest unlocking a new Broken Lords' Hero and a new item
• Reduced base XP gain per turn on Hero as Governor from 3 to 2 (now identical to XP gain on Hero as Leader)

IMPORTANT FIXES

• Fixed an issue where the host receives an unskippable assert during a session
• Fixed an issue where the player receives an assert message and remains stuck in combat after ending the targeting phase

OTHER FIXES

• Fixed an issue where the AI does not take the Founder's Memorial improvement into account
• Fixed an issue where the AI factions do not build Watchtowers
• Fixed an issue where the village dust ray indicator from the quest "Too Many Chiefs" does not disappear when the quest is failed
• Fixed an issue where custom factions with the "Make Trade Not War" trait were asked to declare war in a side quest
• Fixed an issue where armour quest items were Tier 2 instead of Tier 4
• Fixed an issue where quest items makes Tier 3 items obsolete (because effects are not always better)
• Fixed an issue where the Ardent Mages main chapter 8 cannot be completed
• Fixed an issue where the custom Cultists affinity factions without "Weapons of the Enemy" trait cannot raze captured cities
• Fixed an issue with custom Vaulters improvements that could be build multiple times
• Fixed an issue with the "Strength of the Vault" tech position when used in a custom faction
• Fixed an issue where the technology allowing to explore again ruins does not reset the FX and 2D icon
• Fixed an issue where some buildings show completion in 1 turn regardless their position in the queue
• Fixed an issue where the minor factions can be assimilated in colonised regions even when never discovered
• Fixed several text issues

 

[Eyeball]

Does the AI now even research the tech allowing them to have more than 4 units in a stack?

 

[InspectorRumpole]

Fuck if this had at least AoW level turn based combat and more unique units per faction I'd buy it in an instant. These two things are really putting me off cause I'm a huge combatfag when it comes to these games.

Same.
Although it IS tempting, i think i'll just wait and see if there will be expansions/sale.
I think i'll just reinstall Eador:Genesis for now

 

[Suicidal]

The fewer number of racial units is supposed to encourage you to assimilate the minor factions, which also can influence your choices. You may not want the empire bonus a minor faction gives but you may really want the unit it provides since it fits in well with your racials.

No reason not to have more faction units + minor factions as well. Actually budgetary constraints can be a pretty big reason. Whatever.

 

[Irenaeus]

Yeah, I agree.

 

[MapMan]

I just had some awesome moments in EL. I literally orchestrated a war between two empires I'm playing as roving clans, and early game was hard for me. After first two empires have been defeated, besides mine there was another very powerful empire (broken lords) and two minor (another roving clans wild walkers). Unevitably, the broken lords declared war on me. Smart as I am, I managed to defend some sieges and snap two of his cities. Soon, the broken lords wanted peace and everything was good. What I didn't notice was that the wild walkers took advantage of the whole situation and attacked the exhausted by war broken lords. They were so effective, they reduced their powerful empire of many cities into mere two cities! It was goddamn blitzkrieg. I was about to face an enemy twice the size as me, both in land and army. Luckily, this was the moment when my dust production skyrocketed. I was unable to declare war (and I wouldnt win this with my weak army) so I chose a better way I quickly arranged alliance between me and the broken lords, gave them a ton of strategic resources and started pumping dust into them. Lucky for me, broken lords are all about dust so they quickly recovered from no army at all (literally, they had nothing) into multiple stacks. They slowly started to fight back and take back their territories. All the while I sat back and pulled the strings from my comfy scarab capital, getting fat dough each turn. Life is good

 

[AngryEddy]

Just won my first game as Necrophage with over 3k gold a turn with resource buffs. What a fun race.

 

[Heresiarch]

I've beaten the game on normal as the Vaulters, and the game is less good than I expected from what I have seen in the beginning.

While the game itself has many interesting innovation, the problem is that it is not very dynamic compared to many other 4X games. By Era II or III you will have all the units and techs that provide real significant changes on your hand, and after that all new tech and buildings are mostly just +2 this, +15% that, more damage, more defense, etc. Even these bonuses become very insignificant because the insane bonuses provided by the strategic/luxury resources just completely shadow over them.

The lack of competitive AI (It did become more aggressive since the latest patch, but its not becoming any better when it comes to tactics), interesting units, and most of all a good tactical combat, make battles mostly a dull auto-combat affair.

Lastly, while the game's questing looks nice at the beginning, and do provide powerful benefits such as unique technology, the execution of it is less than interesting post midgame. The quests are mostly just go to x, destroy y, etc. I guess I was a bit spoiled by other 4X games with tons of nice writing I guess (such as Eador).

Even though so, I don't particularly regret spending money on this game because the developers do have put in innovative concepts and as much soul as possible in the game, which is the opposite to say, Beyond Earth. And oh, the game's soundtrack is fantastic. All the Endless games have fucking brilliant music.

 

[baturinsky]

Yep, it's a shame that so many interesting details are obsoleted by completely busted balance. Intricate system of unit equipment, tactical battle, siege rules - forget that, you'll mow down everything on auto-resolve either way. You think it's important where you place your city centre and borough? Nah, after some improvements all cities will be the same. Etc, etc.

Still, it was kind of fun.

I was unable to declare war (and I wouldnt win this with my weak army) so I chose a better way I quickly arranged alliance between me and the broken lords, gave them a ton of strategic resources and started pumping dust into them. Lucky for me, broken lords are all about dust so they quickly recovered from no army at all (literally, they had nothing) into multiple stacks. They slowly started to fight back and take back their territories. All the while I sat back and pulled the strings from my comfy scarab capital, getting fat dough each turn. Life is good

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you could probably just buy some privateers with all that money and wipe them both.

 

[baturinsky]

On the THIRD sight, heroes add a lot of depth to empire management. They can give huge bonuses to cities, especially if you put some bling on them. Vaulters faction, particularly, can get top level accessories from their faction quest early(ish), and they have resource production bonuses to make lot of bling. So, you can just find a hero with +industry, give him +industry book and get 12 production from figure in newborn city, instead of 4. Playing Vaulters reminds a lot Arcane/Artificier in MoM.

 

[sser]

Pretty sure the Cultists have the best 'mayor' leader on account of only having one leader one city. He has seriously strong leadership bonuses for running a town. IMO, Cult leaders should be completely unavailable on the mercenary market, both for gameplay and lore reasons.

 

[Irenaeus]

Yeah, it makes sense.

 

[AngryEddy]

Now I'm playing as Broken Lords and I'm having fun with their instant pop + river/sea dust boosts.

 

[AngryEddy]

So after beating a Broken Lords campaign, I am now trying out the Cultists, and man, I really fucking like their lore and their unorthodox play style with their super HQ.

You should read the Main Quest text as you progress through it: it's about a guy who tried to fight off the Cultists and got his legs broken and tossed in a hole until the Cult pulled him out and made him recite an oath, and how he despises the cowardice of his own people, then over time as you complete the quests he ends up sympathizing, and outright identifying with the Cult.

 

[Juggie]

Pretty sure the Cultists have the best 'mayor' leader on account of only having one leader one city. He has seriously strong leadership bonuses for running a town. IMO, Cult leaders should be completely unavailable on the mercenary market, both for gameplay and lore reasons.

Actually, Wild Walker heroes with at least one level in innate food bonus are superior midgame on. At that point food and science are the only relevant resources from FIDSI with industry and influence being semi-relevant (you need some, but there's not much to spend it on) and dust being mostly irrelevant. Food allows you to grow cities infinitely even when you construct all currently available buildings in a city. The real advantage of Wild Walker heroes is their industry bonus and excellent faction skill tree layout allowing them to get production going quickly in any city and leveling up quickly thanks to the city having high production. This way they build up their innate food bonus. There is one Wild Walker hero with level 3 industry and level 2 food innate bonuses, that's pretty much overpowered IMO.
Cultist heroes have nice overall bonuses and good faction skill tree layout as well, but they lack any multiplicative industry and food bonuses in their faction skill tree. At max level they only get 20% bonuses to industry and food and + 3 to citizen production in both, which is not bad, but not as good as 1% per hero level. They are very good for cultists, because they need loads of influence. I wish there was one with both influence and industry bonuses but there doesn't seem to be one.
Also Necrophages heroes with slavery and food bonus innate abilities could be good, but they have terrible faction skill tree layout, no other faction specific bonuses than food and I haven't seen a hero with both slavery and food bonus yet.

 

[baturinsky]

There can't be too much industry. You can always convert some of it to stockpiles of food. And even without it, I virtually never had a moment where I had nothing to build.

I can't say I could not put money to good use too. Dust can kickstart new cities, but heroes and buy resources to make books for heroes.

Also I think that starting bonuses on heroes, such as Boost of Effectiveness to something, are random.

So, yes, Cult governors are easily superior, but Windwalkers are close seconds.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

So after beaten a Broken Lords campaign, now I am trying out the Cultists, and man, I really fucking like their lore and their unorthodox play style with their super HQ.

You should read the Main Quest text as you progress through it, it's how a guy tried to fight off the Cultists and got his legs broken and tossed in a hole until the Cult pulled him out and made him recite an oath, and how he despises the cowardice of his own people, then over time as you complete the quests he ends up sympathizing with the Cult.

All the race-quest writing is worth reading. EL's got really great fluff.

 

[Juggie]

There can't be too much industry. You can always convert some of it to stockpiles of food. And even without it, I virtually never had a moment where I had nothing to build.

I can't say I could not put money to good use too. Dust can kickstart new cities, but heroes and buy resources to make books for heroes.

In most cities I have that half the game. Build new buildings in 1 or 2 turns then wait for the next research enabling buildings. But when the city grows population quickly you can spam districts. That's why you want food. Dust can buy you couple of buildings, but you're usually limited by strategic resources anyway and they are expensive and limited on the global market and in faction trade. Buying them with dust is is inefficient.
Stockpiles are quite inefficient as well - it's 2500 production for 725 food/production/science. Sure, you'll build it anyway since there's literally nothing to build when you reach current district cap, but it's the last choice.
IMO the greatest problem is the classical MoM-like design flaw - limited army size. This leads to quantity in military being completely irrelevant and once you get your army up, there's almost no reason to build more units.

Also I think that starting bonuses on heroes, such as Boost of Effectiveness to something, are random.

They are bound to hero names. Heroes with the same names always have the same innate skills. You can have multiple heroes with the same name in one game too.

BTW what difficulty are you playing?

 

[baturinsky]

I played Normal so far. And not that much.
Yes, stockpiles look quite inefficient :/
About not having anything to build... Well, you have to research things faster to have stuff to build. Also, have you tried to build units for sale? And moving people around from industry to research or food?
About governors - besides cultists and treehuggers, lords are fine too. Especially in resource-rich regions. I did not catch, though, if they give bonus to strategic resources, luxuries or both.
Worst governors are those that don't have nice path to winter immunity.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Broken Lord heroes excel at cities near river/sea. Especially the ones with 3rd level "Dust Efficiency " trait.

 

[Juggie]

I played Normal so far. And not that much.

I'm about hundred hours in, playing on Immortal and considering Endless, since there's hardly any challenge. The problem is, the AI doesn't get any better, it just does the same dumb shit multiplied by huge bonuses.

Yes, stockpiles look quite inefficient :/
About not having anything to build... Well, you have to research things faster to have stuff to build. Also, have you tried to build units for sale? And moving people around from industry to research or food?

I swap citizens when needed, but I never need to TBH. Once you have 60 pop and the whole province covered you don't really care. Sure you always want more research, but expanding the city through pop + districts increases science output as well.

About governors - besides cultists and treehuggers, lords are fine too. Especially in resource-rich regions. I did not catch, though, if they give bonus to strategic resources, luxuries or both.

The 1.5 extra resource (IIRC it's strategic only) is really good, but they don't have any other useful skills. The got + dust on rivers, + dust on dust tiles and multiplicative dust bonus plus they can only have dust bonus innate ability. IMO this is not worth it unless you have real trouble with strategics and don't have access to Sillics or you're playing Broken Lords obv.

Worst governors are those that don't have nice path to winter immunity.

The winter immunity and the 5,5,10% bonus thing in general skill tree are mandatory and I usually rush the immunity, get the other thing and then start taking other bonuses.

Broken Lord heroes excel at cities near river/sea. Especially the ones with 3rd level "Dust Efficiency " trait.

They excel in Broken Lords early games when + 7 dust on rivers and + 3 on terrain with dust is huge. Later on I think you can get more out of Roving Clans heroes. And for non-Broken Lord games dust is of little use.

 

[baturinsky]

Once you have 60 pop and the whole province covered you don't really care.

60 pop in one city?! What race and turn is this? I considered 15 pop city at ~150 turn a megapolis. Looks like I really need concentrate on food more.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Broken Lord heroes excel at cities near river/sea. Especially the ones with 3rd level "Dust Efficiency " trait.

They excel in Broken Lords early games when + 7 dust on rivers and + 3 on terrain with dust is huge. Later on I think you can get more out of Roving Clans heroes. And for non-Broken Lord games dust is of little use.

That early dust really help them to grow fast.
But yeah, it is really hard to get near Clans once they establish their trade route web, though late game long winter periods hurt them if you don't have proper talented heroes.

baturinsky
Easiest way is to play Cultists Elves also have good food bonuses and can "multiply" rapidly.
Edit: Broken Lords too can multiply fast if you have the dust (which you should)