Decline Dreamfall Chapters - Console Immersion Action Decline Kickstarter [Spoilers]

[J_C]

Isn't Zoe supposed to be Arab?

With a name like Castillo, she might have some latin-american origin.

 

[abnaxus]

Half Argentinian, half Indian. IIRC.

 

[Infinitron]

Ragnar on sales: http://redthreadgames.com/forum/topic/896-how-are-sales-going/page-4

agirlnamedbob, on 27 Oct 2014 - 20:22, said:

Yeah, but Dreamfall was also not an indie title. It was worked on by a much larger team and had a budget of ~$5M.

Remember guys, DFC is an indie title. The goal posts are different. Which is a big part of why I don't like speculating with hard numbers.

Exactly. Outside of the indie development community, there is a misconception that a game needs to sell many, many hundreds of thousands of copies — maybe millions — to make money. This is NOT TRUE. A recent indie success, Gone Home, sold 100,000+. That was a FANTASTIC number! Most indies would be floored by a number like that. And the truth is that we do not have to sell 100K to have a successful game. Far from it. Digital distribution is good for us, and our margins are decent. I won't discuss specific numbers, but if we sold the same as Gone Home we'd be overjoyed.

But we might still decide to not talk about it, because we don't want the focus to be on sales numbers. We want it to be about player satisfaction and the road forward.

(Of course, if we sell a million, I'll let you know. Before jetting off the our private island in the Pacific.)

Uh...

 

[J_C]

Ragnar on sales: http://redthreadgames.com/forum/topic/896-how-are-sales-going/page-4

agirlnamedbob, on 27 Oct 2014 - 20:22, said:

Yeah, but Dreamfall was also not an indie title. It was worked on by a much larger team and had a budget of ~$5M.

Remember guys, DFC is an indie title. The goal posts are different. Which is a big part of why I don't like speculating with hard numbers.

Exactly. Outside of the indie development community, there is a misconception that a game needs to sell many, many hundreds of thousands of copies — maybe millions — to make money. This is NOT TRUE. A recent indie success, Gone Home, sold 100,000+. That was a FANTASTIC number! Most indies would be floored by a number like that. And the truth is that we do not have to sell 100K to have a successful game. Far from it. Digital distribution is good for us, and our margins are decent. I won't discuss specific numbers, but if we sold the same as Gone Home we'd be overjoyed.

But we might still decide to not talk about it, because we don't want the focus to be on sales numbers. We want it to be about player satisfaction and the road forward.

(Of course, if we sell a million, I'll let you know. Before jetting off the our private island in the Pacific.)

Uh...

No biggie. Most companies don't like to talk about sales. Inxile only mentioned the first day sales, and they are silent about it ever since.

 

[thesoup]

Ragnar Tørnquist @RagnarTornquist · Oct 27
And now #Dreamfall is under attack from horrible racists for being multicultural & pro-immigration socialist propaganda. Tired…but proud.

 

[Shadenuat]

There is propaganda and there is Propaganda. First Dreamfall also had that but either my memory fails me or it was actually more organic and non-agressive.

 

[Morgoth]

Okay Ragnar. Keep up with The Stupid trend and you can kiss another customer goodbye.

 

[Morgoth]

Half Argentinian, half Indian. IIRC.

Morrocan.

 

[Levenmouth]

I absolutely loved Chapters take on Stark. I loved the melting pot of cultures. I loved the sights and sounds.

Is there actually a reason why everyone in Europolis is a first generation immigrant? Was it founded just a few years before the game starts? It really isn't a "melting pot of cultures" by any stretch of the imagination as there is absolutely no hybridity. It's just several segregated communities living in the same slum. The Chinese are here, the Muslims are here, the Cola-Chai-drinking pretentious boyfriend journalists are here. Everyone adheres to a different dress code and speaks with a different accent. Very minor mixing between the individual groups takes place and the city itself doesn't seem to develop any culture of its own. Maybe this is the Scandinavian take on multiculturalism, but to me this looks more like 19th century nationalism on a smaller scale. Frankly, even in the 19th century Westerners used to intermix among themselves, but also with the indigenous populations, quite a bit more than this in the places they were cramped together, e.g. European concessions in the Far East.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I absolutely loved Chapters take on Stark. I loved the melting pot of cultures. I loved the sights and sounds.

Is there actually a reason why everyone in Europolis is a first generation immigrant? Was it founded just a few years before the game starts? It really isn't a "melting pot of cultures" by any stretch of the imagination as there is absolutely no hybridity. It's just several segregated communities living in the same slum. The Chinese are here, the Muslims are here, the Cola-Chai-drinking pretentious boyfriend journalists are here. Everyone adheres to a different dress code and speaks with a different accent. Very minor mixing between the individual groups takes place and the city itself doesn't seem to develop any culture of its own. Maybe this is the Scandinavian take on multiculturalism, but to me this looks more like 19th century nationalism on a smaller scale. Frankly, even in the 19th century Westerners used to intermix among themselves, but also with the indigenous populations, quite a bit more than this in the places they were cramped together, e.g. European concessions in the Far East.

That's the Tumblr vision of multiculturalism - everyone safely tugged away in their own ghetto. Forget interactions between actual living people, it's even evil to "appropriate" elements from other cultures. And yes, it is ironically, a very reactionary way of thinking. I think the rationale is similar as well - originally limiting interactions between cultures was supposed to protect their identities, and it's similar for SJWs, except nowadays minority cultures apparently need protection from the ill-gotten dominance of Western culture.

 

[Cassidy]

The more propaganda-laced a "game", the shittier it is when judged for its merits as a game instead of judged as a propaganda piece the braindead sellouts of Gawker will give a 10/10 to.

It is not like something being a propaganda means it must be inevitably shit. Triumph of the Will was a good movie, for example. The Soviet Union did some good movies as well, but these hacks doing movies disguised as games and ruining once potentially good game series while contaminating them with force fed propaganda have only released crap.

tl;dr Ragnar is just barely above Brianna Wu as a "game" developer right now.

 

[Levenmouth]

In their defence, I have this faint feeling that this might be a case of the most prudent stance being that of not attributing to malice what can be attributed to stupidity. Look at the forums and the reviews. They're very active in terms of engaging with the community and repeatedly state that they are trying to be neutral and don't want to push an agenda, despite being in favour of multiculturalism. Maybe they're just really this bad at writing political commentary and overcoming their own biases. Maybe the next chapter will be better.

(tl;dr: They already have my money and I hope to at least get a little bit more dream exploration out of it. -signed buyer's remorse. PS: Should have bought Payday 2.)

 

[abnaxus]

It's already obvious Kaiser Putin Konstantin will rig win the elections and those Marxists are planning to blow shit up. But the whole Europolis political bullshit doesn't really interest me.

Half Argentinian, half Indian. IIRC.

Morrocan.

Her dad is Argentinean, her mother Chink.

 

[Grunker]

"All good art is political, but most Political Art is bad."

 

[J_C]

I absolutely loved Chapters take on Stark. I loved the melting pot of cultures. I loved the sights and sounds.

Is there actually a reason why everyone in Europolis is a first generation immigrant? Was it founded just a few years before the game starts? It really isn't a "melting pot of cultures" by any stretch of the imagination as there is absolutely no hybridity. It's just several segregated communities living in the same slum. The Chinese are here, the Muslims are here, the Cola-Chai-drinking pretentious boyfriend journalists are here. Everyone adheres to a different dress code and speaks with a different accent. Very minor mixing between the individual groups takes place and the city itself doesn't seem to develop any culture of its own. Maybe this is the Scandinavian take on multiculturalism, but to me this looks more like 19th century nationalism on a smaller scale. Frankly, even in the 19th century Westerners used to intermix among themselves, but also with the indigenous populations, quite a bit more than this in the places they were cramped together, e.g. European concessions in the Far East.

I just can't get why can't you just enjoy the world Ragnar created, instead of trying to twist it and add political commentary to it. Stark is an imaginary world which developed the way it is. Who knows what will happen in the 22nd century? Maybe every race will live in segregated areas.

 

[tuluse]

"All good art is political, but most Political Art is bad."

 

[DeepOcean]

I think this on the face propaganda is so dumb. What is the purpose of it? Scare customers away? Being "I'm against the system , BRO!"? If they really think multiculturalism is important, they should show and explain why is important don't do the cheap tacked on bullshit "social controversy, LOL!" to pretend being relevant.

I read books by many authors I disagree because they are actually well written books but straight propaganda is so boring. It is the cheapest way of pretending to be important while being lazy/intellectualy bankrupt. If you are trying to sell a political/religious/cultural message it is pretty dumb to annoy the fuck of the audience and make them go away by treating them like morons. Anyway, expect video game writers to be smart and talented is a waste of time.

 

[J_C]

I think this on the face propaganda is so dumb. What is the purpose of it? Scare customers away? Being "I'm against the system , BRO!"? If they really think multiculturalism is important, they should show and explain why is important don't do the cheap tacked on bullshit "social controversy, LOL!" to pretend being relevant.

I read books by many authors I disagree because they are actually well written books but straight propaganda is so boring. It is the cheapest way of pretending to be important while being lazy/intellectualy bankrupt. If you are trying to sell a political/religious/cultural message it is pretty dumb to annoy the fuck of the audience and make them go away by treating them like morons. Anyway, expect video game writers to be smart and talented is a waste of time.

Yeah, because Ragnar is just the type of guy who wants to convert you to believe in an idea.

Or maybe you are just thinking too much into it.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Yeah, because Ragnar is just the type of guy who wants to convert you to believe in an idea.

Or maybe you are just thinking too much into it.

Kinda agree. All this anti-SJW stuff is quickly getting as retarded as its counterpart. Everyone and everything is under suspicion. <There was supposed to be an overused Nietzsche quote>
liberals

There is as much of propaganda in DF:C as it was, for example, in Iain Banks' Culture novels or in Heinlein's works.

The game is still shit, but for different reasons.

 

[J_C]

Well, the game already has more complex puzzles than the original Dreamfall. Not difficult at all, but at least you have to use your powers and combine different things to advance.

 

[Levenmouth]

The game takes place in a ghetto. The elections are a central theme. The main character repeatedly makes snarky remarks about everything that is traditionally European to the point of engaging in historical revisionism. Clearly, I must be overthinking it and trying to twist this beautiful world Ragnar created with my vile political commentary.

I mean no disrespect to you whatsoever, J_C, but that's beyond ludicrous. You like the series and are probably passionate about it, that's great, but let's at least avoid blatant denialism. I like some games and films that have stupid beyond belief elements in them too.

 

[Grunker]

The game takes place in a ghetto. The elections are a central theme. The main character repeatedly makes snarky remarks about everything that is traditionally European to the point of engaging in historical revisionism. Clearly, I must be overthinking it and trying to twist this beautiful world Ragnar created with my vile political commentary.

I mean no disrespect to you whatsoever, J_C, but that's beyond ludicrous. You like the series and are probably passionate about it, that's great, but let's at least avoid blatant denialism. I like some games and films that have stupid beyond belief elements in them too.

Hasn't J_C just created a thread called something to the effect of "DREAMFALL IS FUCKING SHIT"?

 

[J_C]

Hasn't J_C just created a thread called something to the effect of "DREAMFALL IS FUCKING SHIT"?

I said that the gameplay is shit, and it still is. The story was great.

The game takes place in a ghetto. The elections are a central theme. The main character repeatedly makes snarky remarks about everything that is traditionally European to the point of engaging in historical revisionism. Clearly, I must be overthinking it and trying to twist this beautiful world Ragnar created with my vile political commentary.

I mean no disrespect to you whatsoever, J_C, but that's beyond ludicrous. You like the series and are probably passionate about it, that's great, but let's at least avoid blatant denialism. I like some games and films that have stupid beyond belief elements in them too.

Alright, I'm not even denying that this game has these elements. What I don't get is why is there a problem? Why is it a problem if the game has an election as a central theme, why is it a problem if it has stuff about historical revisionism? I don't want to get into the stupid "games are art" debate, but I don't see a problem in a game's story using this elements. Artistic freedom and such can be applied here too. Hey if a game would dare to tackle the issues of fasism, holocaust, I would be interested in it.

 

[Grunker]

Agreed.

 

[DeepOcean]

J_C, you like the series and are probably passionate about it, that's great, but let's at least avoid blatant denialism.

Talking about denialism with J_C is as fruitful as talking about patriarchy with Roguey. Don't waste your time, he will defend every game ever made and there is nothing you can do to stop him.