Dark Sun: Shattered Lands is fucking great

[mondblut]

welp, at that point CRPG companions were so new

 

[Sacred82]

welp, at that point CRPG companions were so new

I actually don't remember Ultima "companions" being very interactive before VII tbh

 

[Krivol]

Couldn't you just control them in battles in U4 and 5?

 

[Sceptic]

I actually don't remember Ultima "companions" being very interactive before VII tbh

They're a LOT more interactive in U6 than they were in BG1. I think in that one they're about the level of U5, which is a good 10 years older.

 

[Ninjerk]

rpg game.

 

[MrBuzzKill]

Also playing this currently... can anyone clue me in as to where to see Thac0 of my characters? Can't find it online, or in the manual (it just explains what Thac0 is without saying where to look for it)

 

[Sacred82]

I actually don't remember Ultima "companions" being very interactive before VII tbh

They're a LOT more interactive in U6 than they were in BG1. I think in that one they're about the level of U5, which is a good 10 years older.

I have a feeling something got jewed moved around in this thread, but anyways

BG1 had low levels of interactivity, yes. Tbqh I only learned that the companions were supposed to chime up during adventuring after reading about it online, don't know if it had anything to do with anything broken in the German version. But you did have the alignment/ reputation thing, whereas Ultima companions were either neutral about everything or they all had the same ethics ("is that virtuous?" - did they actually ever do anything if you kept on being not virtuous?).

 

[The Avatar]

Are dialog trees that much better than keyword lists? You're still choosing what to say- just not in an organized tree form. The tree can give you a better feeling for a flowing conversation- but can also be more restrictive.

Ultima 7 struck a good balance between "bioware conversation simulator" and "list of random words to choose from like Morrowind has".

 

[Sacred82]

Are dialog trees that much better than keyword lists?

Keywords are usually not punishing. Maybe if they were, people wouldn't just click through them. Actually, now that I think about it, I'd rather have to guess what any keyword is going to do than what the effect of any dialogue option a writer pulled out of their ass is going to have on an NPC. "You did a really great job there" [sarcastic +1] What? I thought just was actually just being truthful but whatever.

 

[Cael]

Are dialog trees that much better than keyword lists? You're still choosing what to say- just not in an organized tree form. The tree can give you a better feeling for a flowing conversation- but can also be more restrictive.

Ultima 7 struck a good balance between "bioware conversation simulator" and "list of random words to choose from like Morrowind has".

It is the same. The end result is the guy continuing the conversation (or ending it, depending on what you chose).

One of the reasons I prefer a typed in keyword a la Ultima 6 is that you can type that keyword back at any time in case you forgot something or missed something in your first read through. With keywords/lines that you pick out of a list, there is always the danger of you never being able to re-access that information, which may cause problems in completing quests or the like. On the other hand, typed keywords allowed you to shortcut a lot of things if you knew what keyword to use with which NPC, but that is a case of "so what?" for me. If you wish to do that and "ruin your own fun", that is your choice.

 

[cherry blossom]

One of the reasons I prefer a typed in keyword a la Ultima 6 is that you can type that keyword back at any time in case you forgot something or missed something in your first read through. With keywords/lines that you pick out of a list, there is always the danger of you never being able to re-access that information, which may cause problems in completing quests or the like.

Dialogue logs in games with dialogue trees ought to be standard protocol.

 

[almondblight]

I think trees are probably the worst option for dialogue. Parsers or CYOA type dialogue (like Deus Ex) are a lot better. Trees end up working like a really disorganized keyword list 99% of the time.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Do you really expect modern gamers to know how to write vs chosing one of the proposed variants?

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

Something happened and I'm unsure if it's a bug or something else.

I was escaping the sewer through the north exit. Bunch of guards popped. Killed them all, nobody died. When I got to the other side of the exit, one of my character was gone. Then I spoke with the old man, accepted his help with the eastern bone wall. Another character dissapeared. When I got there, all NPC in the area disappeared. I'm pretty sure it's a bug, but I just wanted to be sure.

When I get to the next area, only way is through the north exit, and there is literally nothing to do. No monsters, no NPC, no other zone, no interaction with the world.

I have the GOG version.

 

[Trash]

Yes. Yes, it is fucking great. One of my absolute all-time favorites. Shame the sequel is such a bug ridden mess.

 

[Cael]

Yes. Yes, it is fucking great. One of my absolute all-time favorites. Shame the sequel is such a bug ridden mess.

I don't recall any bugs in Wake of the Ravager. I played it a lot back in the day.

 

[Trash]

I played it back in the day when they had to ship a patch to you on a floppy disk. It got panned in a lot of reviews at the time for its bugs. Some of them gamestopping.

"The game has several bugs, some of which result in a crash, others resulting in the game not winnable. For example, due to game engine limitations, graphics for doorways or items may disappear. Some of these issues were addressed in the 1.02 and 1.1 patches."

 

[Cael]

I played it back in the day when they had to ship a patch to you on a floppy disk.

Yes, yes, yes. Before BG was a thing *golf clap* I don't recall needing a patch, though.

 

[visions]

So I started playing the first Dark Sun game recently.

If my multiclass fighter/thief/psionicist wears non-leather armour does it interfere with his backstab ability? The manual says thief's abilities are limited when he does so but multiclass casters don't seem to have any penalties for wearing armour that is inappropriate for their caster class, so I'm wondering if the thief is penalized for wearing non-leather armour even if he is multiclass? Also, does this apply to all armour slots or only body armour?

From anecdotal experience I didn't manage to get any backstabs in even when only wearing a metal helmet so I'm guessing my multiclass thief should wear only leather items.

Another question. Do non-magical helmets do anything? I remember in IE games helmets prevented critical hits, so I've equipped all my non-thri-kreen chars with helmets just in case.

Also I have a weird bug, I picked the elemental sphere of fire for my thri-kreen ranger/cleric/psionicist but she gets spells from earth sphere instead of the fire sphere. On her char sheet, cleric and ranger are both red, indicating she should get spells from the fire sphere but she doesn't. I guess it's not a big deal, earth sphere is also okay and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about this bug.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Thanks for the necromancy, didn't play this game before and after reading the comments, i tried it (i'm still in the arena)

Well, now, rated 31st in the top 50 cRPG ...

Dear Codex, Christmas is coming, please do us a favor and put this one in the top 10 next time.
If you don't know how, just follow my instructions, there's 3 intruders out there pick yours (Morrowind, F:NV and BG2) at the very least, it should switch places with BG (which is 17, really, codex ? )

 

[Sacred82]

So I started playing the first Dark Sun game recently.

If my multiclass fighter/thief/psionicist wears non-leather armour does it interfere with his backstab ability? The manual says thief's abilities are limited when he does so but multiclass casters don't seem to have any penalties for wearing armour that is inappropriate for their caster class, so I'm wondering if the thief is penalized for wearing non-leather armour even if he is multiclass? Also, does this apply to all armour slots or only body armour?

From anecdotal experience I didn't manage to get any backstabs in even when only wearing a metal helmet so I'm guessing my multiclass thief should wear only leather items.

good question, there are definitely checks in the game for disarming traps and picking locks and pockets. I'd guess those suffer from having metal armor equipped. Never tested if it applies to backstabbing.

Another question. Do non-magical helmets do anything? I remember in IE games helmets prevented critical hits, so I've equipped all my non-thri-kreen chars with helmets just in case.

You'll get hit for insane damage regardless so no, I don't think those helmets actually do anything.

Also I have a weird bug, I picked the elemental sphere of fire for my thri-kreen ranger/cleric/psionicist but she gets spells from earth sphere instead of the fire sphere. On her char sheet, cleric and ranger are both red, indicating she should get spells from the fire sphere but she doesn't. I guess it's not a big deal, earth sphere is also okay and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about this bug.

Interesting. I never rolled a ranger - they're pointless if you're maxing stats or have high DEX, except maybe on a Half-Giant.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I also have a question, my multiclass characters got a level, isn't there any personalized level up ?

 

[Sacred82]

I also have a question, my multiclass characters got a level, isn't there any personalized level up ?

Nop. Happens automatically. The distribution of XP between classes also didn't seem entirely even - you could get a level in one class after starting even though it would take less XP to advance another level in your other class.

 

[Darth Canoli]

A real shame, still, it's really promising and i guess it won't disappoint from what i've read here.

 

[visions]

Also I have a weird bug, I picked the elemental sphere of fire for my thri-kreen ranger/cleric/psionicist but she gets spells from earth sphere instead of the fire sphere. On her char sheet, cleric and ranger are both red, indicating she should get spells from the fire sphere but she doesn't. I guess it's not a big deal, earth sphere is also okay and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about this bug.

Interesting. I never rolled a ranger - they're pointless if you're maxing stats or have high DEX, except maybe on a Half-Giant.

After noticing the bug I rolled another similar char (same race and classes, chose fire sphere again, rolled different stats) to see if the bug would reoccur. I started a new test game with only that char and didn't get the bug.