Yes, modders have a time-honoured tradition of turning a short pain in the ass into a long pain in the ass.
Are you aware of this: https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/7616
Yep. Haven't bothered to replay the game yet with that mod, but it's installed.
This one is fire and forget. I installed it once, and then I just have gangs calling for backup and citizens calling for police whenever they see a crime.
My problem with the Crime system wasn't that you didn't have enough spawn-ins or motorised police units giving chase, but that it's a vacuous and irritating distraction overall. Before or after the mod/patch, the gameplay loop remains the same - oops, you murdered an NPC who scratched your paint, now go have a run around the park until your Wanted Stars™ disappear, wasting time and taking you out of your way before beep-bop, tabula rasa! Having skimmed the mod's page, the only improvement I saw is removing psychic cops and requiring a witness to call it in.
should have a criminal questline to parallel the NCPD missions and add in the notoriety system from Watch_Dogs
If we are discussing the crime system as such, I agree it's superfluous. However I was talking about "wanted system" above. And what's been the common normie complaint has been "cops don't chase me like in GTA", not much more than that.
Well, we're talking process changes and persistent effects on a sliding scale. So, okay, you commit a murder. Step one, like your mod does, someone has to call it in - if there's an officer on-site, they respond immediately, or a surviving witness reports it and the NCPD arrive "soon", no more teleporting "stop right there, criminal scum!" At this point, the cops respond (mostly) like they do now, but no Wanted Stars and the pursuit area should be much smaller, so you don't waste a lot of time in play.If we are discussing the crime system as such, I agree it's superfluous. However I was talking about "wanted system" above. And what's been the common normie complaint has been "cops don't chase me like in GTA", not much more than that.
So if we are now talking about the game's general reactivity to actions tagged as "crime", that's a bit of a goalpost moving
Anyway, how would you design crime reactivity in a way that doesn't involve redesigning a huge amount of the open world gameplay (as far as such exists in C77)? What would be the crimes, and what would be the reactivity?
Remember when Outer Worlds said that?
Barring some annoying issues (witnesses popping up out of nowhere in the middle of a forest, the law recognizing you working funky) you just described RDR2's wanted system.Well, we're talking process changes and persistent effects on a sliding scale. So, okay, you commit a murder. Step one, like your mod does, someone has to call it in - if there's an officer on-site, they respond immediately, or a surviving witness reports it and the NCPD arrive "soon", no more teleporting "stop right there, criminal scum!" At this point, the cops respond (mostly) like they do now, but no Wanted Stars and the pursuit area should be much smaller, so you don't waste a lot of time in play.If we are discussing the crime system as such, I agree it's superfluous. However I was talking about "wanted system" above. And what's been the common normie complaint has been "cops don't chase me like in GTA", not much more than that.
So if we are now talking about the game's general reactivity to actions tagged as "crime", that's a bit of a goalpost moving
Anyway, how would you design crime reactivity in a way that doesn't involve redesigning a huge amount of the open world gameplay (as far as such exists in C77)? What would be the crimes, and what would be the reactivity?
If you get away, the reputation thing kicks in, as if they got a partial description and depending on the identity of the victims - e.g. NCPD wouldn't care about gangers getting wasted, 1 point, they'd care about civvies to some degree, 5 points, and they'd really be pissed if you wasted their own, 10 points. The higher your infamy, the worse the effects, maybe they spend more time looking for you around the area of the crime, maybe they send a patrol vehicle after you, maybe you gotta start "stealthing" around random cops through NC if it gets bad. You max out hostility, they call MaxTac on your ass whenever they see it. There's a lot of room for development here.
And then we go into the consequences, at a certain level, maybe they should try to take you in alive. The fines and the bribes come into play, maybe a jail mechanic. Conversely, you start doing jobs for them or helping them out in firefights, maybe your reputation improves. And, of course, you can extend the same system to the gangs as well, pit gangs against one another and the NCPD with systemic reputational consequences and even use that reputation to open up quests. But at this point, I'm describing a different game. A better one.
My point is that at this time, developing the existing, pointless crime system is just lipstick on a pig or, at worst, making you spend more time with said pig. I'd rather have the response time nerfed so I can act out my road rage (seriously, even after the patches, the traffic still sucks) and go about my merry way if I hurry.
P.S. Shooting from behind the wheel is/will be incline though, at least you'll be able to clear traffic without bothering to get out of the car.
I was thinking in the same lines - reputation points determine reactivity of faction members. The cops and civillians are just one more gang technicallyWell, we're talking process changes and persistent effects on a sliding scale. So, okay, you commit a murder. Step one, like your mod does, someone has to call it in - if there's an officer on-site, they respond immediately, or a surviving witness reports it and the NCPD arrive "soon", no more teleporting "stop right there, criminal scum!" At this point, the cops respond (mostly) like they do now, but no Wanted Stars and the pursuit area should be much smaller, so you don't waste a lot of time in play.If we are discussing the crime system as such, I agree it's superfluous. However I was talking about "wanted system" above. And what's been the common normie complaint has been "cops don't chase me like in GTA", not much more than that.
So if we are now talking about the game's general reactivity to actions tagged as "crime", that's a bit of a goalpost moving
Anyway, how would you design crime reactivity in a way that doesn't involve redesigning a huge amount of the open world gameplay (as far as such exists in C77)? What would be the crimes, and what would be the reactivity?
If you get away, the reputation thing kicks in, as if they got a partial description and depending on the identity of the victims - e.g. NCPD wouldn't care about gangers getting wasted, 1 point, they'd care about civvies to some degree, 5 points, and they'd really be pissed if you wasted their own, 10 points. The higher your infamy, the worse the effects, maybe they spend more time looking for you around the area of the crime, maybe they send a patrol vehicle after you, maybe you gotta start "stealthing" around random cops through NC if it gets bad. You max out hostility, they call MaxTac on your ass whenever they see it. There's a lot of room for development here.
And then we go into the consequences, at a certain level, maybe they should try to take you in alive. The fines and the bribes come into play, maybe a jail mechanic. Conversely, you start doing jobs for them or helping them out in firefights, maybe your reputation improves. And, of course, you can extend the same system to the gangs as well, pit gangs against one another and the NCPD with systemic reputational consequences and even use that reputation to open up quests. But at this point, I'm describing a different game. A better one.
My point is that at this time, developing the existing, pointless crime system is just lipstick on a pig or, at worst, making you spend more time with said pig. I'd rather have the response time nerfed so I can act out my road rage (seriously, even after the patches, the traffic still sucks) and go about my merry way if I hurry.
P.S. Shooting from behind the wheel is/will be incline though, at least you'll be able to clear traffic without bothering to get out of the car.
Isn't the DLC going to add a stealth mask of sorts? I remember seeing something like that in one of the first few trailers.
Technically, CBP already has a workable mechanic for this in its stealth implementation, with how hostile or potentially hostile actors react on a delay depending on your cool stat. Neutral "guard" types, like Trauma Team or the NCPD itself, already use it too before they go to alert if you crowd them. So that's what I was thinking - at low NCPD notoriety, you hang around a cop too long, the penny drops that you look like that wanted guy so they approach to ID you, not just to tell you to move along, whereas at max notoriety, you gotta give 'em a very wide berth or they'll call MaxTac on you right quick.I was thinking in the same lines - reputation points determine reactivity of faction members. The cops and civillians are just one more gang technically
They can chase you and they can catch you, that's constant. There is already a mod out for bribing cops, according to the total damage you've inflicted. It wouldn't be much effort to convert it into "fines" for smaller crimes and less damage and salty bribes for bigger mischief.
I think that's the limit of depth before this minigame becomes tedious. Imagine you're teleported to a precinct every time, with animations, conversations, etc. This will get old after a couple of times.
I think one angle could be adding some other punishment except bribes - like an xp penalty, or the cops stealing some part of your gear. But if these costs get too steep, most people will just save scum. It really depends on what they expect from the minigame. Sometimes more doesn't equal better. LIke Deadfire's ship combat minigame. Needlessly involved for its own good.
Analyzing RDR2 and why it works well there - I think the core thing are the chases. It's just fun to run from the law, escape the perimeter, and get a bounty. The system for disguises is also fun and could be approximated in Cyberpunk. Sure in Cyberpunk the cops supposedly have biometry, CCTV and whatnot to identify you, but the means for disguise should have also evolved symetrically to the means for identification. That could be a fun minigame, that could be scripted. Probability for cops to turn hostile when they see you based on your appearance since the last time you raised your bounty.
