Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[Serus]

Well that didn't last long. A few hours and already thinking of dropping the playthrough. I had forgotten that one of the reasons I stopped playing this was the rng grind embedded in this game.

Nothing wrong with the randomization mechanics, but the 10 or so indebted I managed to capture were all shitty. I realize it would have taken a long time just chasing bands of northern raiders and fighting them until I get a good set of recruits.

I wasn't even being too demanding. Just a couple of stars in mattack and no negative trait are my requisites. I'm not sure I'm willing to spend hours more just to find recruits that are midgame material, nevermind lategame.

Does it even make sense to keep capturing barbarians with asthma, rickets and cowardice? Maybe the germans forgotten to balance this one.

congratulations. now you figured why only the dumbest and most useless niggers were brought to americas.

The based german devs have done it again.

Anyway, the "standard" perk build for my slave frontliner will be Colossus-Dodge-Relentless-Weapon Mastery-Overwhelm-Nimble.

Occasionally I will swap colossus with another perk(i.e duelist for a qtal dagger bro or shield master for a tank bro).

It is the only way I found to make the indebted have more survivability and not get fatigued after a handful of rounds. I don't think you can build an effective heavy armor bro in 7 levels, specially taking into consideration fatigue. The whipped status doesn't affect fatigue as well, only morale, resolve, attack, defense and initiative.

Building heavy armour is much easier actually, if you go fat neutral route, because it requires far less stats/perks to be effective and late game has much better survivability than nimble. Indebted have low HP and generally anything below 100HP is not really worth it for nimble builds, while ~80HP is a decent number for battleforged.

Generally i agree, however i never liked the fatigue neutral builds. I made a few and it's not like they can't be ok. This is probably the best build for "high attack but crap everything else" bros. Or crap everything like some indebted are. I simply didn't like them much. I'll rather spend money too find a bros that can use a standard build even if he doesn't have optimum stats. With indebted however it might be the way to go.

 

[Shaki]

Generally i agree, however i never liked the fatigue neutral builds. I made a few and it's not like they can't be ok. This is probably the best build for "high attack but crap everything else" bros. Or crap everything like some indebted are. I simply didn't like them much. I'll rather spend money too find a bros that can use a standard build even if he doesn't have optimum stats. With indebted however it might be the way to go.

I'm generally not a fan of fat neutral too, since in most origins it's easy enough to find decent bros that qualify for better builds, but if you for whatever reason need to use shit bros (like in manhunters origin), fat neutral is a great crutch to make otherwise useless pieces of shit, into late game viable bros. You can make more fancy builds even with lvl7 locked indebted, especially if they have good rolls/stars/traits, but fat neutral bf has the upside of being able to turn even super shitty indebted useful in the late game, if you don't feel like grinding 9000 barb fights to get a full roster of great recruits.

 

[Barbarian]

Late game(legendary locations and after first crisis) most enemies have very high armor penetration attacks and you will be fighting very long and drawn out fights.

I just don't see level 7 dudes being effective with 300+300 head and body armor and heavy fatigue maluses. You would have to spend a perk on recovery and even then.

Overwhelm is surprisingly effective, don't know why it isn't used more. Works against most enemies except northern raiders(who use the adrenaline skill on all troop tiers).

 

[Space Satan]

2H Mace and hammers does not require a lot of fat for one hit. Enough to tank

 

[Serus]

Late game(legendary locations and after first crisis) most enemies have very high armor penetration attacks and you will be fighting very long and drawn out fights.

I just don't see level 7 dudes being effective with 300+300 head and body armor and heavy fatigue maluses. You would have to spend a perk on recovery and even then.

Overwhelm is surprisingly effective, don't know why it isn't used more. Works against most enemies except northern raiders(who use the adrenaline skill on all troop tiers).

What perk on recovery? What are you talking about? We were talking about fatigue neutral build being good for indebted. The whole point of fatigue neutral build is that it regenerates the fatigue needed to make its attack every turn. In fact it becomes better in drawn out battles than in short ones because of that. And it sure as hell doesn't need recovery. In fact it doesn't need much perks at all, that's another point. Low stat and low perks requirement = ideal for indebted. It's less effective than "normal" build but for an indebted you might not have a choice.

 

[Barbarian]

There is no such thing as "fatigue neutral" round after round being attacked multiple times. Even when enemies miss you you lose fatigue. Works on other origins where you can get decent amounts of base fatigue, but with a level 7 cap? It might work early to midgame, but I am skeptical about late game specially against certain types of enemies.

 

[Shaki]

There is no such thing as "fatigue neutral" round after round being attacked multiple times. Even when enemies miss you you lose fatigue. Works on other origins where you can get decent amounts of base fatigue, but with a level 7 cap? It might work early to midgame, but I am skeptical about late game specially against certain types of enemies.

You don't understand how the fat recovery works. When you get your turn, you regain 15 fat. Even if enemies hit you 200 times, and if you're fighting for 10000 turns, your bro will still recover 15 fat when it's his turn, enough to move one tile and swing a 2h weapon once with mastery.

Fat neutral builds exist to take advantage of that. You need only ~20-30 usable fat on them, can be as low as 15 but then sometimes you'll get screwed by injuries that penalize fat. Being able to completely ignore fat frees up a lot of stat/perk points that normally a battleforged bro would need to take + lets you completely don't care about armor fat penalties, just throw the heaviest shit you have on them, as longh as they have 15+ fat left it's cool.

It's a build you normally take when you have bros who don't have enough fat for BF, or HP/INI for good nimble, but have great MA/DEF. Very nice for great swordmaster recruits for example. Or for indebted who lack in most stats and have heavily limited perks. You don't need brawny, you don't need recover, you only need pathfinder (so you can move + attack on most terrains) weapon mastery (can be skipped with -fat cost famed weapon, or if recruit has iron lungs) and battleforged, rest you can pick whatever you want and it will still work.

The whole point of the build, is that your indebted will be able to ALWAYS move one tile and swing 2h weapon, regardless of their fat (except on shit like swamp, but everyone is fucked there anyway)

 

[Serus]

There is no such thing as "fatigue neutral" round after round being attacked multiple times. Even when enemies miss you you lose fatigue. Works on other origins where you can get decent amounts of base fatigue, but with a level 7 cap? It might work early to midgame, but I am skeptical about late game specially against certain types of enemies.

You don't understand how the fat recovery works. When you get your turn, you regain 15 fat. Even if enemies hit you 200 times, and if you're fighting for 10000 turns, your bro will still recover 15 fat when it's his turn, enough to move one tile and swing a 2h weapon once with mastery.

Fat neutral builds exist to take advantage of that. You need only ~20-30 usable fat on them, can be as low as 15 but then sometimes you'll get screwed by injuries that penalize fat. Being able to completely ignore fat frees up a lot of stat/perk points that normally a battleforged bro would need to take + lets you completely don't care about armor fat penalties, just throw the heaviest shit you have on them, as longh as they have 15+ fat left it's cool.

It's a build you normally take when you have bros who don't have enough fat for BF, or HP/INI for good nimble, but have great MA/DEF. Very nice for great swordmaster recruits for example. Or for indebted who lack in most stats and have heavily limited perks. You don't need brawny, you don't need recover, you only need pathfinder (so you can move + attack on most terrains) weapon mastery (can be skipped with -fat cost famed weapon, or if recruit has iron lungs) and battleforged, rest you can pick whatever you want and it will still work.

The whole point of the build, is that your indebted will be able to ALWAYS move one tile and swing 2h weapon, regardless of their fat (except on shit like swamp, but everyone is fucked there anyway)

This! Couldn't say it better. I'll only add that, from memory, ~25 usable fat might come in handy to be able to use use a high fatigue attack, once in a while if you don't attack in previous turn for one reason or another. IIRC that happened - very occasionally - in my game when i tried fat neutrals long time ago

 

[Barbarian]

If you have low initiative, depleted fatigue and get attacked during the round you will then have no capacity to attack(you will recover 15 at the start of the round but then lose some before you can spend it).

I understand it, I just don't think a level 7 chump with low fatigue is a good application of it. I could be wrong off course, but have been playing with mostly nimble squads for a while now with good success. Heavy armor makes low level low fatigue chumps unmovable anchors unable to do much after a couple of rounds if they wear heavy enough armor. Even weapon secondary attacks are something you will use only first couple of rounds.

Nimble high ini bros on the other hand can remain hyperactive for a good few rounds and have particularly high defense before they get tired.

 

[Shaki]

If you have low initiative, depleted fatigue and get attacked during the round you will then have no capacity to attack(you will recover 15 at the start of the round but then lose some before you can spend it).

It doesn't work that way bro, rotfl. You recover 15 fatigue when it's the specific brother's turn, they don't recover it all at the same time when the overall turn starts, all the buffs/debuffs works the same way.

The only scenario where you lose the fat before you can spend it, would be if you use the wait command, and then get attacked before you can act again, or if you move out of enemy zone of control during your turn and they attack you.

 

[Serus]

If you have low initiative, depleted fatigue and get attacked during the round you will then have no capacity to attack(you will recover 15 at the start of the round but then lose some before you can spend it).

I understand it, I just don't think a level 7 chump with low fatigue is a good application of it. I could be wrong off course, but have been playing with mostly nimble squads for a while now with good success. Heavy armor makes low level low fatigue chumps unmovable anchors unable to do much after a couple of rounds if they wear heavy enough armor. Even weapon secondary attacks are something you will use only first couple of rounds.

Nimble high ini bros on the other hand can remain hyperactive for a good few rounds and have particularly high defense before they get tired.

1. What Shaki said IIRC.

2. You don't know how neutral fatigue works in practice (hint: not the way you think) but you already formed an opinion. Where is Desiderius when you need him to talk about the need for less theory and more practice.

3. Sure, a high initiative nimble bro is better. A Porsche 911 is better than a Skoda. Duh. High initiative nimble bro requires hp + initiative and attack/def. For that you'd have to grind for good indebted, by your own admission. This discussions started with you saying that you don't want to grind! Almost any bro can be fatigue neutral if he can hit something. Not to mention less perks required. Except asthmatic bros but those are bad for any build. No need to grind as much.

4. Nimble is in general better than BF. Even OP kind of better, according to some. It gives good defenses with any armor and has less vulnerabilities. BF starts being competitive when you get really heavy armor. Which sooner or later you do but by that point the hardest part of the game is over. I for once like to have most of my bros as heavies - it's just silly otherwise. Those Germans fucked up the balance in this case.

 

[k0syak]

My take: FAT neutral is great for mid-game bros, when you're starting to accumulate some heavier armor, but don't have top tier bros that can be made into proper battleforged yet. Use 2H Maces and axes on them.
And fuck indebted.

 

[Shaki]

Yup, fat neutral is not the strongest build you can make, but it's meta because it's the easiest strong build you can make. Even with mods making recruitment easier, finding 12 amazing bros takes a lot of grind, and fat neutral shitter bros can be great filler until you get that. And it goes double for indebted, because grind for them takes muuuuch longer.

Overall for Nimble vs BF discussion, I'm a big fan of nimble myself, since it's stronger early/mid game, requires less stats than normal berserk BF builds, and stays strong and viable later.

BF has the advantage of being straight up better than nimble in very late game, once you found some bros with great stats, and have shitton of famed items, 400/400 BF will outperform anything you do with nimble, in nearly every situation.

Realistically, I usually go with some okayish/decent nimble brothers to carry early game, + start adding some filler fat neutral BF frontline in the midgame, while protecting few best recruits I find and shaping them into late game monster BF to replace fat neutrals. In my manhunters run I had all normal mercs except for bannerman as nimble duelists + all indebted as fat neutral BF, and that team stomped most legendary locations pre 200 days and could beat pretty much any camp with ease.

 

[Space Satan]

 

[Baron Tahn]

I have a weird thing with indebted. I always feel terrible when I roll/get one with decent stars because I feel like the luck was wasted on what could have been an awesome bro. Cant do it. Im the kind of OCD that rerolls starts WAY too often as it is so it just drives me nuts.

On that note anyone got any great seeds? There was a site that was trying to make a seed generator/library once does that still exist?

 

[Modron]

I have a weird thing with indebted. I always feel terrible when I roll/get one with decent stars because I feel like the luck was wasted on what could have been an awesome bro. Cant do it. Im the kind of OCD that rerolls starts WAY too often as it is so it just drives me nuts.

Yeah BB is definitely not the game for OCD min maxers, with 3 layers of RNG on every recruit from stat spread, skill potential, and traits. You have to just aim for decent and learn to live with it.

On that note anyone got any great seeds? There was a site that was trying to make a seed generator/library once does that still exist?

Probably your best bet is: https://wlirareddit.github.io/bb_calculator/seed_search.html with 180K seeds to search through with options to fine tune your search in pursuit of the perfect egg.

Other sites:
https://battlebrotherseeds.weebly.com/

There is even a smaller legends specific seed bank:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eZUvzqxe9UE14dm3bEDU2pChij2VOE3x_ydvTED7VAs/edit

 

[Serus]

I have a weird thing with indebted. I always feel terrible when I roll/get one with decent stars because I feel like the luck was wasted on what could have been an awesome bro. Cant do it. Im the kind of OCD that rerolls starts WAY too often as it is so it just drives me nuts.

On that note anyone got any great seeds? There was a site that was trying to make a seed generator/library once does that still exist?

Welcome to the club.
My - less than ideal, I admit - answer is to play with fog of war. What you can't see, can't trigger your OCD and there is a 95% that the map will turn up at least usable, even if far from perfect.

 

[Teut Busnet]

I have a weird thing with indebted. I always feel terrible when I roll/get one with decent stars because I feel like the luck was wasted on what could have been an awesome bro. Cant do it. Im the kind of OCD that rerolls starts WAY too often as it is so it just drives me nuts.

On that note anyone got any great seeds? There was a site that was trying to make a seed generator/library once does that still exist?

If you have all DLC, you can try this one (my favourite):

GmkiwXblgw

I like it because all three of the southern city states have a harbour and you have a nice (almost) circle of towns in the north, all belonging to the same house. Not the most profitable wares to trade, but quite a bit of amber and furs, which will sell for more in the city states. The Citadel of the big house has all three shops. Edit: There are also many ports along the coast, makes getting from north to south really easy.

A negative: no kennels in the north, so no easy access to northern hounds.

 

[Old One]

So what is the hardest start actually?

I found the three barbarian one difficult (Northern Raiders, is it?) because all the northern houses are hostile so you have to skitter down to the desert ASAP to escape.

 

[Serus]

I have a weird thing with indebted. I always feel terrible when I roll/get one with decent stars because I feel like the luck was wasted on what could have been an awesome bro. Cant do it. Im the kind of OCD that rerolls starts WAY too often as it is so it just drives me nuts.

On that note anyone got any great seeds? There was a site that was trying to make a seed generator/library once does that still exist?

If you have all DLC, you can try this one (my favourite):

GmkiwXblgw

I like it because all three of the southern city states have a harbour and you have a nice (almost) circle of towns in the north, all belonging to the same house. Not the most profitable wares to trade, but quite a bit of amber and furs, which will sell for more in the city states. The Citadel of the big house has all three shops.

A negative: no kennels in the north, so no easy access to northern hounds.

For me stuff like trade is of less importance, as are any specific buildings. What counts are:
1) I hate southern cities placed on the shore but with no ports, in the middle of the desert is good, on the shore with port is good too
2) I dislike too many mountains (to lesser extent also swamps), especially the long mountains ranges make the movement tedious
3) Glitches and weirdness like only 2 southern cities and similar stuff are also a no.
4) Factions that have at least 3 towns/castles each, it somehow look weird with a 2-town faction.
Everything else is optional.

I like at least 2 hunter cabins in two separate towns but that's not a necessity. Also having a few ports in different areas of the map are nice to have but also not a necessity.

I once played on a map that had only 2 workshops in total. It was a little annoying but not to the point of being unplayable. Use of the retinue guy that creates tools after battle required.

 

[Baron Tahn]

I got into this horrible thing where once I got a map with a southern port, west coast port, AND a NE port in the snow. Had a great couple of games on it but then burned out trying to reroll another similar one.

I have tried your method of fog of war Serus and naturally its the kind of thing I like doing so next time Im going to commit to that I think. Even though Im already forseeing what will happen if I find there are no desert ports....grrrr I need electro shock therapy or something!

 

[Fargus]

So what is the hardest start actually?

I found the three barbarian one difficult (Northern Raiders, is it?) because all the northern houses are hostile so you have to skitter down to the desert ASAP to escape.

It's a fun start though and ocassionally you'll get free fodder.

 

[Turisas]

So what is the hardest start actually?

I found the three barbarian one difficult (Northern Raiders, is it?) because all the northern houses are hostile so you have to skitter down to the desert ASAP to escape.

It's a fun start though and ocassionally you'll get free fodder.

Yeah dunno about hardest but it's by far my most played start since it's so fun.

 

[Fargus]

So what is the hardest start actually?

I found the three barbarian one difficult (Northern Raiders, is it?) because all the northern houses are hostile so you have to skitter down to the desert ASAP to escape.

It's a fun start though and ocassionally you'll get free fodder.

Yeah dunno about hardest but it's by far my most played start since it's so fun.

I like it, but my most fun was Davkul cultist run.

 

[Lios]

Barbarian start is awesome, I feel like I'm playing an exclusive Battle Brothers scenario, what's with half the map hating you so you have to flee, the priest that you take captive and start with etc, it's like it tells a story on its own. It's also the first scenario that forced me to become a notorious caravan robber, which I enjoyed very much.
Same applies to Davkul run, it feels special.

I'm also a fan of the monster hunters, but this is more like a larping thing for me.